Your meaning of life

hehe, I LOVE THIS.

i love the way Magius took his stand and continually kept it to the dire end. :wink:

i actually looked up the word, experience, for any possible argumental leeways, and this is basically what i found:

the definition that struck me the most was:

but then i looked up life and this definition struck me:

i think you made your point quite clearly and i accept the idea that life is a mass of experiences. but from many religious standpoints i’ve gotten (i’m not very religious… not yet, to say the least), they’ve concluded that the meaning and purpose of life is to serve God and to recognize Him.

How do you feel about that?

MissWLee,
I hope that you have come to agree with me through realization, understanding, and reason. Not persuasion. I am also glad you took the time to look up the words and to make your own analysis, you would be surprised as to how many people do not bother with what seem to them as simplistic and unimportant foundations as tools for understanding - many are more intrigued with their own self-conceptualized taxonomies of life, people, and everything else you can imagine. The true investigator, or I should say philosopher, has shown herself within you.

MissWLee stated:

To answer your question from you previous post in relation to the above quote I must say that I have not heard of a religion yet that has even mildly convinced me of a religious belief in God. I knowledge in Theology in a general sense is quite thorough, even in some specific religions like Christianity. If you have seen some of my previous posts you may find some evidence that I have found for the mental conception of God and the use for God as well as his role in history.

To give some more detail to what may seem like rambling, I will say that people conclude that the meaning and purpose of life is to serve God and recognize him in order to constrain people to following what is better. This arrogance became quite obsessive for people of science and philosophy. Once they read Newton, Plato, Aristotle, among others they felt themselves somehow above the rest, smarter. Knowing (or so they thought they knew) that not all people are as smart as they, that in order to help them, they must create traditions, prayers, and events into the religion in such a way that God, something apart from human, has these ‘virtues’ within him and nothing else so that no one could level themselves off with him, because he was so much more. Furthermore, these traditions, prayers, and events would be tautologically implemented into the heads of all the rest. I wish I could go into more detail right now but I have to go…I will leave you with a thought: my opinion is that religion is the highest form of brainwashing.

What’s your take?

Magius, what are you talking about.
I dont agree with you. I said I came across a quote that somewhat backs your meaning of life up. I dont think the meaning in life is to’ experience.’

"The mystery of life is not a problem to solve but a reality to experience. "
…Frank Herbert, “Dune”

Some how you substituted ‘mystery’ with ‘meaning’, they are total opposites. Then you assume I support your theory, please try again.

Your definition of the meaning of life is just to simplictic and cutesy. Its not relative to everyone. On a side note, Please lets keep this topic confined to Humans, not animals/simple organisms.

What are you talking about. For example, a book i just finished, written by Victor Frankl, a jewish man In the concentration camps of WW2 concluded the meaning of life was to “make your life an act of love.” You make the best out of any given situation. Even the WWII Jews you referred to. I didnt understand what you meant when you said Experience is the meaning of life, especially acknowledging the fact that these people were tortuered.
People should not strive to ‘experince’ and expect meaning. It doesnt work that way. When I experince a new beverage, I dont sit back and say, Wow my life has meaning…it has experience thats it. Experience is a teacher. Does this Teacher give us meaning? I think not. It gives us knowledge.

Have you studied this topic? How could anybody know the meaning of life? How could they prove it? Some things cant be explained. That rebuttal was ridiculous on your part.

Please dont put words in my mouth… You said
"Why not bring in the Jews that suffered in World War II? Did their lives have meaning?
Then you go off and rant how Experience is the meaning of life. Right. read above.

Yes, read what i just wrote. Their lives had meaning, but not coorelated to your definition.

Yes, Im talking about the meaning of any given person’s life. Do people care what other people think their meaning of life is??? People want to find meaning in THEIR life, not others. What are you trying to prove. I seriously didnt understand your reply to me at all. It seemed vague and confusing.
and im wasted, so i will let this one fly…goodnite everyone

Magius sez: “Religion is the highest form of brainwashing”

What do you believe in. Please enlighten me. Please I want to hear what you belive in. What will you believe in when your on your death bed. Please tell me what You believe in. If its nothing, well you have been brainwashed too. If you believe in Nothing, then I assume you have killed your faith by reading other peoples work. You have been brainwashed by others. We have all been brain washed. Is this bad?

None of us are ever more than one heartbeat removed from death. We all come into this world with a bomb built into us. The fuse of this bomb was lit roughly when the doctor held us up by the heels and spanked our little bum. The only life we know is accompanied by the sound of this fuse burning in the background.

”The hour that gives us life begins to take it away.” Seneca

I doubt that it’s possible for a man to lie to himself. The notion of a lie includes a negative ethical qualification. I’m of the opinion that Ethics arise with relationships between at least two persons. A man stranded for the rest of his life on a deserted island might safely burn his books about Ballroom Dancing and Ethics.

Of course we all suffer from various delusions; some turn out to be to our advantage, others to our disadvantage. For example, we unconsciously delude ourselves in thinking that we don’t have a large “blind spot” in front of each of our eyes. This delusion is to our advantage. On the other hand, we consciously delude ourselves in constructing an economy based upon the concept of endless growth. I fear this delusion will ultimately be to our disadvantage.

I’ve two different understandings of the word “meaning.” When one thing exists for the sake of some other thing, one thing is said to have an extrinsic meaning for the other. Here’s a well known example:

”For the want of a nail the shoe was lost. For want of a shoe the horse was lost. For want of a horse the rider was lost. For want of a rider the battle was lost. For want of a battle the kingdom was lost.”

It’s possible for a normally insignificant nail to have a great extrinsic meaning. The same could be said of the defective metal nut on the stabilizer jackshaft of the Alaskan Airlines jet which crashed a few years ago. The wear on this small part held a great meaning to the scores of people on that aircraft. As it happened, it meant that they were going to die in a crash.

The other notion of meaning has to do with what we think of as having an intrinsic meaning, or meaning for itself. My happiness intrinsically has meaning to me. I value it for itself, rather than as a means to a further end. My happiness is the end. Love is another example of that which is often intrinsically meaningful.

What is the meaning of my life? This is a self-referential question. Here, something is asking a question about itself. We know from logic and set-theory that self-referential questions have a propensity to lead us into paradoxical conclusions. So we have to be careful with such questions, else the snake ends up by eating it’s tail.

Are you content to think that your meaning in this world is only extrinsic? We think of trees as having value partly because they absorb greenhouse gases. Would you be content that your meaning of life is primarily to inhale oxygen and exhale carbon dioxide, and thus help complete the great carbon – oxygen cycle of the planet? Most of us have responsibilities in this life. We have families, for example, that depend upon us much as the airline passengers depended on that nut on the stabilizer jackshaft. I suspect this is enough for some people. In such case the question for them is answered. Such people commonly are content to live for their children or to care for their cat, etc.

However, some people, myself included, aren’t fully satisfied with an extrinsic meaning of life. If I died today, only a few people would grieve, but in time even they would get over my loss and go on with their lives. It’s a sobering thought to realize that my life is in no way indispensable to this world. That the collection of atoms that presently constitute my body should suddenly be blown apart into a diffuse cloud across the far reaches of the earth, would mean as little to the universe as if a pool of water should evaporate on a sunny afternoon. I simply don’t much matter to the world.

Seneca wrote”

”There are times when even to live is an act of bravery.”

Yes, and furthermore I say:

Every subsequent breath I choose to take is a reassertion of my own intrinsic meaning. I affirm the meaning of my life with my very life itself.

Sartre said as much, though more eloquently:

”Man is…nothing else than the ensemble of his acts, nothing else than his life. Reality alone is what counts: dreams, expectations, and hopes warrant no more than to define a man as a disappointed dream, as miscarried hopes, as vain expectations.”

I alone give my life its ultimate value. It is as great or as worthless as I choose to make it. I do more than simply ask for the meaning of my life; I provide that meaning to my life. I am not the snake that eats its tail. I am the man that lifts himself up by his own bootstraps. Of course, this is an impossibility, isn’t it? Life is that impossibility to which we daily thumb our nose.

”The important thing is to pull yourself up by your own hair, to turn yourself inside out and see the world with fresh eyes” Marat

Michael

Nicely put. I applaude you :sunglasses:

Youngman18 stated:

No you didn’t, you never mentioned that what you are saying is somehow backing up my meaning of life, you were agreeing with MissWLee’s disagreement while also adding in your own.

Youngman18 stated:

Ever heard of Okham’s razor? Think about it. Moreover, just because my definition of life is contained in one word, it doesn’t mean that it is simplistic - you took it simplistically. The error lies in your inability to apply the word to life’s many variables.

Youngman18 stated:

Your missing the point. Yes it is ethically and virtuously best to live a life of action for love, but whether one lives a life of love and another does not, both have experienced life.

Youngman18 stated:

:laughing: I never said that we are supposed to strive to experience nor did I say that we are suppose to expect meaning. Even if I did, how do you know it doesn’t work that way? Yes experience gives us knowledge. This is part of the reason why the meaning of life is experience.

Youngman18 stated:

Why can’t someone know the meaning of life? Generally speaking, anyone can. To know your own personal meaning in life, is something else. But it logically follows that the one thing common to all humans in every life is experience. We all experience. It appears that you are arguing an enigma and denying it can be solved. That’s close minded. What if there was a question that no one could answer, but one day someone knew and told you the answer, you wouldn’t listen and just laugh because you were convinced that since no one has answered the question, than that must mean that it will never be answered. So my rebuttal wasn’t ridiculous.

Youngman18 stated:

My definition of the meaning of life encompasses all people, so how is it that the meaning in their lives is not correlated to my definition?

Youngman18 stated:

If you only care to read posts on what YOUR life may mean, then just ignore my post. My post is general in tone and definition. I wonder whether my reply to you seemed vague and confusing because it is vague and confusing or because you were wasted. Ever tried to read one of my posts sobre?

What’s your take?

Youngman18 stated:

It appears that your questions were rhetorical one’s since you tell me that I have been brainwashed by others. Especially since there are things I believe in, I don’t just believe in nothing as you assumed. Therefore, I have faith, it has not been killed. Why do you think it would be killed by what I have read from other people’s work? Most of what I post is my own opinion usually going against the societal norm and even against ancient philosophers - hence why I get argued with all the time. I am hoping your last question was a sincere one…to answer it I will say that in all cases it is bad to be brainwashed, but this opinion is only an opinion and is in no way suppose to mean that others are also suppose believe that being brainwashed is a bad thing. There are many valid arguments for ignorance being bliss.

What’s your take?

Magius,

it sounds as if you were assualted by society. i honestly emphacize with you. has there ever really been a time where people encourage us to really have our own religous views? as we look back through history, we see religion as something that we steadfatedly defended… but that must also mean that people had to of smothered other views then…

to Youngman,

do you honestly believe that one must pick a socially accepted “higher power” or religion to have faith? and i daresay that religion isnt what “brainwashes” people, it is the people that feel they have the need to empower themselves over others that brainwashes people. looking throughout history (once again), many many religious beliefs and practises were distorted to fit a persons or groups (whatever the case may be) purposes. furthermore, it is a persons ignorance, and their unwillingness to learn that keeps them in thier brainwashed world.

well… im done, till next time

Locke_Key I’m not sure what you mean by assaulted, but I agree with you wholeheartedly on what you said in reference to everything else including your response to Youngman.

Even though I feel like im butting into a discussion here… heres my two cents since life is a pretty important topic.

last weekend, last saturday to be exact, was a very interesting day for me. I woke at 10 in order to catch an early morning run and possibly go relax on the boat for a bit. Instead I ended up cleaning my brother’s mess because my mother had to go do some stuff and then I laid down again. I woke again at 11:30 and ate some breakfast and attempted to go on the boat again… NO! My brother and his friends were out. I slept again. I woke at 2:00 to a thuinderstorm and fell asleep again. At 4:00 I woke again and found some satisfaction in talking to my dad. In less than 5 minutes I learned that I blew the engine on the car we had been working on for 4 years now (1971 Triumph Stag) and a few minutes later I lost the anchor to the boat in the water. My day had hit rock bottom. I decided to drive into town for no reason but occupying my time and left. Around 9:30 the sun was settign and I was passing a field and small airport that I have known since my childhood - I’ve passed it at least 1000 times. As I looked past the landing strip and over the field that had some soccer nets on it, I saw the thunderstorm that had passed. The clouds were beautiful and were colored from a light orange/pink which bled into a very dark purple, the backdrop was a crystal clear dark blue sky. In my rear view I saw the sun about 15 degrees over the road and decided to stop. I watched for 10 minutes and left with a smile on my face. When I finally got home I wrot ein my journal, it helps me clear my mind and understand what I am thinking…

This all may be compete bullocks but for me it really means something. Two things here - appreciation and experience (not the right work but it works sorta) can make my life better day by day. Appreciation of simple things (sunset) make it easier to find happiness and the experience of a bad day gives you somethign to measure by - ood days are that much better in comparison. If every day was complete euphoria I think that euphoria would eventually get old.

Cheers!
-Marc

ps… if this seems choppy its because I had to re-write it because my browser crashed… grr.

Smellsexcellent,
you are not budding in, it is after all a message board - I think these sub-rules some people have of not interrupting two people messaging each other back and forth are chosen by those who just don’t like to be told they are wrong. There are many out there and that is probably why your being cautious of interrupting. Don’t worry, any time you wish to say anything - atleast in any of my discussions with people - feel free to do so. Moreover, I agree that the important things in life are the simple things. Some confusion surrounds some of your post in the varied concepts you speak of.

What’s your take?

6 million died right?

I asked didn’t I? I’m more interested in other peoples meaning because I find no meaning in my life. Actually another question would be motivation. hmm I guess I’ll make another topic for what motivates daily activity for people. Not saying I’m suicidal or anything but life is really sad.

Even accepting experience as the meaning to life is kind of depressing. So experience is one meaning to life. That doens’t make it fun or happy.

There’s also the concept that the world will be destroyed one day which I’m surprised no one brought up. Wouldn’t ignoring that idea be more pleasurable and meaningful to someone than accepting the fate of the unvirse? Experience is also susceptible to degree. One experience may have more meaning to someone or the world than another.

If you said yes 6 million people died in the holocaust then what does the other few integers matter? I know it wasn’t 6 million but I can’t even find the exact number. I’m probably not looking hard enough but it could be very easy to say that the others were meaningless they aren’t even being counted. Memory of the experience I feel is equaly important.

Its also that I’m new and don’t really know the tone of discussion here. It may be very informal but it could also be very serious and intense. I just haven been around enough to know. So anyways, thanks.

ABout your confusion; what concepts are you confused about?

-marc

CBA stated:

Why is accepting experience as the meaning of life depressing? No, experience isn’t one meaning to life, it is THE meaning to life. Just because a definition of life incorporates all people, happy or sad, black or white, two legged or one, healthy or diseased, doesn’t mean it aint so. It appears that you are looking for a definition of life that makes claim to all people being happy and having fun all the time. This aint so, so you aint going to find a definition for it.

Ignoring anything is not good, one must learn to deal with it. Sure one can cause themselves harm by not ignoring something - but it can only happen when they are not dealing with it in the right way. Moreover, doing something in the wrong way and knowing it, brings you closer to the right way, since you already no one of the ways not to do something.

CBA stated:

The latter part of your statement is correct, and that is why the defining of the meaning of life needs to stay as general as to say the meaning of life is experience. Sure there are degrees of 'meaning ', but not of experience. It’s an error in language when one says that a certain time period was the greatest experience they ever had. The only differences occuring within the person are emotional ones and mental ones. Hence, it can have different meanings. But ‘experience’ is something we all have differently, but we all have it. Only from a morale or societal stand point can one say that one experience is better or worse than another. Otherwise, experience stays as experience whether you are experiencing one thing or another.

CBA stated:

Maybe it could be easily said by you that the other few integers are meaningless, but for me it isn’t. When you say “but it could be very easy to say…” you are speaking generally, you should speak for yourself and change your sentence to “but it’s easy for me to say…” so that we all understand what you are saying.

What’s your take?

Because not all experiences are good ones. In fact I believe there are more negative experiences that happen daily than positive ones. That is depressing. If you can live your life thinking that your purpose is to be miserable your whole life. I find that depressing.

There’s a right way to deal with things? If so how can you know if what you are doing is wrong? What is the basis for morals nowadays anyway? I’d like you to give me one example of perfection anywhere in the world. Do you think it’s better mentally to deal with death? To accept it or to totally ignore it?

I was speaking generally. My text book gives an estimate. That means more than one person feels that the other integers aren’t that important. If someone feels it’s better to teach millions of kids that the holocaust killed 6 million jews as opposed to 6 whatever then obviously someone else doesn’t care all that much.

This comes across as somewhat of an aggresive post I didn’t mean it that way. I’m just in a rush and didn’t have time to be curtius sorry :frowning:

I just take life as it comes I guess. love to learn and love to live. If I die, then we’ll…I’m dead, hope theres an after-life. Not much of a point living if all you get when you die is nothing. :slight_smile:

CBA stated:

Ofcourse not all experiences are good ones. It’s a contradiction in terms. What is it that you are really asking? Don’t you realize that without ‘bad’ experiences there wouldn’t be good ones? There would be yet another degree of whatever definition would lie within experiences. Why do you believe that there are more bad experiences than positive ones? More importantly, with respect to whom are you referring the previous statement? Do you truly believe that the purpose to what appears to you to be a miserable life is to live life miserable?

CBA stated:

I think people know right from wrong by their gut feeling. A person who follows this feeling with reasonable and logical analysis all their life knows right from wrong. Although, morality can be easily tainted by deceiving oneself or giving in to desires when they most oppose reason and logic. At this time I do not entertain or even conceive of the possibility of being able to answer your question of perfection. I think the best way to deal with death is a sort of combination of the suggestions you postulated. For instance, I believe one must accept death, but that alone is not enough. One must accept death because they understand their position in life and have come to terms with death emotionally - since we really don’t know much about death.

CBA stated:

Just because a textbook gives an estimate doesn’t mean that integers of ‘people’ are not important. The concept of estimates is used as a helping tool to make easier the gathering of clumps of information in the mind - this in no way is suppose to mean that the rounded off numbers are not important. Given your example if 6 Million Jews died in the concentration camps and if the truth is that 6, 013, 284 Jews died in the concentration camps, it is for the sake of memory that this number is rounded off and it is expected that if you really care you will do your own research into research materials where the exact number will be given.

I don’t mean to get off on a tangent, but I sense the level of your depressive state; trust me I have been there. I wish only to ask you to tell me the principles that haunt and cling to you so that maybe I can shed some light on them - and in return make you happy. For example, this notion you have of estimates and rounded numbers meaning that the few integers are not important which is not the case at all.

What’s your take?

i agree with you magnaminous one, one needs bad experiances to measure their good ones up to.

i would like to add, that in some situations, negative effects take place no matter if we did right or wrong, and these cases do color our morales to some extent.

depression may not just be psychological in origin, try having a well balanced diet (plenty of cheese). i also have been there, the problem i have experienced, however, was that i became close minded. it is a deffinate downward spiral from there.

i say this often, and i am sure it anoys the crap outa certain people, to me the point, wether we recieve eternal life or not, is to share this earthly one with others. that may include your children, spouse, parents, etc.

just something to ponder FrozenViolet.