Why there is belief in an afterlife

[surreptitious57]

Many of the patients are pronounced dead but return from death but this is where your honesty stops for six minutes after the heart stops without the aid
of CPR and brain death is pronounced if someone returns naturally without said CPR science had the number of minutes wrong. That is what you will say

No that is not at all what I will say or actually have said which is this : science does not yet have the answer to explain this phenomenon
And so all one can do in the meantime is be patient and avoid making assumptions. Can you be patient till the day you die Wendy. I can

[WendyDarling]

No, I want to prove you wrong now!

[surreptitious57]

I have no problem with that but I do not think that it will be happening in my lifetime
I will be sleeping the sleep of the dead long before then so it will make no difference

[WendyDarling]

Again, your biological body will suffer an expiration, but your consciousness will carry on and I'll look you up after this go'round of human life.

[surreptitious57]

You are only saying that because you want it to be true not because it is true
You should therefore try and understand that they are not actually the same

[WendyDarling]

Why do you deny me my belief when you have no evidence that I am mistaken? I'll still be searching you out after we transition out of our human forms.

[surreptitious57]

When I die I will have no more need for my consciousness and so you can have it if you want to
I will be spending the rest of time sleeping the never ending sleep of eternity so sweet dreams

[WendyDarling]

I guess we'll see, won't we? Not a moments Peace for you...I'll make certain.

[surreptitious57]

Why do you deny me my belief when you have no evidence that I am mistaken

You have asked me this before. You seem to be very concerned about what I think about what you believe but you can believe whatever you want to
It makes no difference to me. All I am saying is I do not believe what you do and am giving you reasons why that is. So can you please stop asking me

[WendyDarling]

Why do you deny me my belief when you have no evidence that I am mistaken

You have asked me this before. You seem to be very concerned about what I think about what you believe but you can believe whatever you want to
It makes no difference to me. All I am saying is I do not believe what you do and am giving you reasons why that is. So can you please stop asking me

But the reasons you give are not supported by any scientific evidence and that is what you say your reasons are based on.

[surreptitious57]

But the reasons you give are not supported by any scientific evidence and that is what you say your reasons are based on

My reasons are based upon lack of evidence to support what you think is true when it clearly can not be demonstrated
And yet again you do appear to be overly concerned with what I think about what you believe which you should not be

[WendyDarling]

You have no contradictory evidence to support your beliefs either which is what you cannot admit to.

[surreptitious57]

You have no contradictory evidence to support your beliefs either which is what you cannot admit to

One cannot find evidence to support a negative position only a positive one
Unless evidence can be found the negative position remains the default one

[WendyDarling]

How do you have the positive position is what I keep trying to get you to address?

[Arcturus Descending]

“What are man's truths ultimately? Merely his irrefutable errors.”
― Friedrich Nietzsche, The Gay Science

[Arcturus Descending]

How do you have the positive position is what I keep trying to get you to address?

I do not think that this man is taking the positive position or the negative position. The only position that I see he is taking is the one where he cannot know and that he doesn't even care about. He is taking the more skeptical/agnostic position.


Convictions are more dangerous enemies of truth than lies.
Nietzsche.

[surreptitious57]

How do you have the positive position is what I keep trying to get you to address

Any positive position I hold to be true will be supported by evidence
Any negative position I hold to be true will be supported by lack of evidence for the positive position

For example astral projection : no evidence for it so I take the negative position as the default position

You think this is wrong because you claim to have astrally projected and also because you want it to be true
Unfortunately neither of these constitute evidence so I still maintain the negative position as the default one

You have also suggested that consciousness after brain death is evidence of it surviving after brain function ceases
But I suggest that science does not yet have an explanation for this and that one has to be patient until it finds one

Your positions are undermined by specifically wanting something to be true regardless of what evidence says or even if there is any
Whereas I am much more interested in having positions based upon evidence or no evidence rather than simply what I want to true

[WendyDarling]

I gave you the anecdotal evidence based on medical case studies of establishing typical statistical references of near death experiences, but your liberal mind (a mind detached from reality) refuses to accept that as any form of evidence.

[surreptitious57]

I gave you the anecdotal evidence based on medical case studies of establishing typical statistical references
of near death experiences but your liberal mind refuses to accept that as any form of evidence

Do you not remember me saying that in science there is no such thing as anecdotal evidence
Do you not remember me saying personal testimony that cannot be verified is not evidence

[WendyDarling]

anecdotal evidence is generally regarded as limited in value due to a number of potential weaknesses, but may be considered within the scope of scientific method as some anecdotal evidence can be both empirical and verifiable, e.g. in the use of case studies in medicine.

If Wiki lies, tell me. If not stop with your denial of the reality that is before your eyes in the above quote.

[surreptitious57]

anecdotal evidence is generally regarded as limited in value due to a number of potential weaknesses but may be considered within the
scope of scientific method as some anecdotal evidence can be both empirical and verifiable e g in the use of case studies in medicine

If Wiki lies tell me. If not stop with your denial of the reality that is before your eyes in the above quote

That definition is a bit loose especially the second part so it needs tightening up

Evidence for astral projection most definitely does not exist because it is purely anecdotal
Evidence for consciousness surviving brain death does exist but the reason is not yet known

[WendyDarling]

The studies tie surviving death and what happened during together. Remember the brain's are not supposed to be functioning after a certain amount of time but they do and the people have similar stories of what went on in their minds, which is more than just your brain.

[surreptitious57]

The studies tie surviving death and what happened during together. Remember the brain is not supposed to be functioning after a certain
amount of time but they do and the people have similar stories of what went on in their minds which is more than just your brain

I would like to learn more about this as I think it is a very fascinating subject indeed
But in the meantime I shall still use the definition of mind as a function of the brain
I know you will disagree but as we no longer agree on any thing it is no real surprise

[A Shieldmaiden]

Wendy wrote:

Where are the Satanic scriptures that refer to astral projection? As far as I can tell, Christians consider voluntary astral projections occult/witchcraft/sorcery...blah, blah, blah. However, involuntary astral projections such as Near Death Experiences are completely acceptable.

Can you list these Satanic references in the scriptures?
14 For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
15 But if ye bite and devour one another, take heed that ye be not consumed one of another.
16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.
17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.
18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.
19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.
25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.
26 Let us not be desirous of vain glory, provoking one another, envying one another. Galatians5:14-26 (Ignore the spelling errors )


What is the proper Biblical definition of witchcraft?

The aspects that I highlighted in red may have a two-fold purpose: First, behave as the angel, Jesus, in the flesh, second, behave as the angel, Jesus, in the spirit. Astral projecting properly is behaving as Jesus in the spirit.

What about near death experiences...satanic practices of witchcraft and sorcery?

This astral projection phenomena is addressed in all religions because it actually occurs in reality. Instead of looking at any of the other larger, more accepted religions, of course you would pull upon an obscure new age religion and try to make a joke of ancient religions (20,000 BC.) being new age.

Spiritualism is the belief that the spirits of the dead have both the ability and the inclination to communicate with the living. The afterlife, or the "spirit world", is seen by spiritualists, not as a static place, but as one in which spirits continue to evolve.

After some research I am of the opinion that what you are speaking about, is the practice of Spiritual Formation, which is a system of practices that were originally invented by Ignatius Loyola the founder of the Jesuits.

One key element of spiritual formation is called “contemplative spirituality.” Other related terms include “contemplative prayer,” or “centering prayer.” These are all names for essentially the same thing. This is nothing more than a mixture of what New Age pagan practitioners of meditation and Roman Catholic monks have taught for centuries.

Here is what Thomas Keating, a Roman Catholic monk, has this to say about contemplative prayer, otherwise known as centering prayer:

Spiritual disciplines, both East and West, are based on the hy- pothesis that there is something that we can do to enter upon the journey to divine union once we have been touched by the realization that such a state exists. Centering prayer is a disci- pline designed to reduce obstacles... choose a sacred word [to repeat]... Twenty to thirty minutes is the minimum amount of time necessary for most people to establish interior silence.12

In other words, you repeat religious or Biblical words (it doesn’t really matter which ones) in order to “center” your thoughts until you feel like you have unity with God.

Jesus specifically mentioned repetition as vain and useless. He said “but when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking” (Matthew 6:7).

Contemplative prayer is mystical from its core, so it is fruitless from my point of view to persuade you otherwise.

With regard to your questions above. Read the Scriptures the answers are all there.

I'm a skeptic of how narrow-minded most Christians are when they read the Bible and extrapolate to serve their exclusionary endeavors, excluding other folks who behave more like Jesus than themselves.

Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and many enter through it.
Matthew 7:13

[WendyDarling]

SM,
It's rather annoying that you beckon emphatically to have your questions answered but you do not return the courteousness, are you sure that you are not an American liberal leftist? Well if you ever decide to become a forthright Christian, let me know, where questions and their answers are exchanged rather than one-directional.