and I know this.....

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and I know this.....

Postby Peter Kropotkin » Sat Jan 30, 2021 5:47 am

I came across this quote and truly, it has hit the nail on the head......

about the puritan revolution and "levelers"...

"Spiritual warfare in his version of the story became directed
against the evil in human institutions rather then in the heart of
the sinner himself. The end sought was not personal conversion but
the general good"...

"The Western Intellectual Tradition" by Bronowski and Mazlish...

the argument here ties directly into the posters here.....

Zero and observ and UR and gloom all make the same argument....
the American/human institutions are flawed, evil, wrong....
but rather then engage with the heart... for this is where I say the
battle to overcome must start, they wish to throw the entire thing out.....
destroy everything down the last bolt..... and what will that accomplish?

nothing, nothing at all.... because it doesn't get to the heart of the problem which
lies within us.......an institution is only as good as the people running it.....
put criminals and evil people in charge of our institutions and that is exactly
what you will get, crime and evil actions....when put in charge, people resort
to their nature.. I have seen this first hand....reform and correcting an
institution can only come from those who are invested in reform and correction....

the basic argument of those mention above fail because it isn't about the
institutions that matter, it is about the heart of those who run or are in charge
of those institutions.....

and in a democracy, we run this and if we put people who are criminals
and evil and incompetent, like the last administration... that is what we get....
crime, evil and incompetence....that is why democratic administrations are better run,
they have better quality of people running it...

but that still leaves out the most important thing... the heart of us....
who are we?... and what values are we to hold? "What are we to do?"

basic, fundamental questions that not one of those mentioned earlier ever
talk about....the basic fundamental questions of existence.....

does Observe, or Zero or UR or gloom ever talk about what it means to
be human? or do they engage in those fundamental questions that we face,
from the moment of birth.. "what values should I hold?" "what should I hope for?"
and they certainly don't think in terms of the we... "what values should WE hold?"
"what should WE hope for?" it would never occur to them that they exists within
a society, a culture, and their values and beliefs are derived from the culture
and society they live in.....the question becomes, have they the courage to
overcome those indoctrinated values with which they were forced into by their
society and culture, state and church...... how can I tell that those mentioned only
spout values and beliefs and stories they were indoctrinated with?

easy, they have no original thought of their own... they spout nonsense
that has been installed into them..... and they never deviate from their stories....

they repeat the exact same stories every single time.... does Zero ever deviate from
his "the end is near and I will be laughing when million are dying"?
does Obersv ever deviate from his stories of stolen elections and liberals'/democrats
are evil and deserve to die? no..... does UR ever deviate from his stories? no....

all that tell us is that they were indoctrinated into these stores... because they
never deviate from them.... every single post tell the exact same story..........

do they ever seem to have a personal moment where they doubt or hesitate?

no, they never seem to have any type of personal moments.....

it wouldn't occur to them that the evil they argue against actually lies in their own
heart..... it is the evil they themselves carry around and try to install into us.......
they argue for hate and anger and fear and lust... values which are doomed to
failure..... I argue for peace and love and hope because those values can be
built into better and stronger values.... values like peace and love and hope have
a future.. whereas those values of hate and anger and violence.. has no future...
those values cannot go anywhere else and become something else..... those values
that is carried on by observ and Zero and UR and Gloom are values that are
sterile and empty.. because those values can only bring about those values..
violence can only bring about violence and hate can only bring about hate
and anger can only bring about anger.......

but to build a life, a love, peace and justice, we must hold to those values...
for as we see in marriage and institutions and within society, love brings us
more then just love.... love can be built upon to become something more....
peace can be built upon to bring us something even greater.. and hope, hope
can bring us through the greatest sufferings into a place where we find peace and love.....

and in the end, we return to where we started... the heart.... what is in your heart?

is hate in your heart, along with anger and violence like Observ and Zero and UR and gloom?

to build anything, anything at all, requires love and peace and hope and charity.......

and I would rather build then destroy..... and for that I am ridicule and attacked by
Zero and Observ and UR........I have looked into my heart... and I like what I see...
for I can build.... for in my heart is not hate or violence or anger...and thus I can build....

I am not evil and I know this... for I have had the courage of a reevaluation of values..
and I have overcome what I was indoctrinated with.... my beliefs are mine and mine
alone... not indoctrinated by my society, state, church, media, culture....

for I don't seek what is out there... I seek what is in here... in my heart, in my wisdom,
in my hope and dreams.....and it doesn't matter to me if the institutions are evil,
for I am still with hope and love and peace.... and I will change those institutions with
love and hope and peace... for I cannot change those institutions with anger or hate or fear....

and I know this....

Kropotkin
PK IS EVIL.....
Peter Kropotkin
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Re: and I know this.....

Postby Dan~ » Sat Jan 30, 2021 2:19 pm

Zero and observ and UR and gloom all make the same argument....
the American/human institutions are flawed, evil, wrong....
but rather then engage with the heart... for this is where I say the
battle to overcome must start, they wish to throw the entire thing out.....
destroy everything down the last bolt..... and what will that accomplish?

Institutions are side effects of human nature.
Changing the core of our nature is what causes or relieves evils.

The heart is a meta problem.
It is the chicken before the egg.

You seem to see this,
although im not sure about your comments on the posters.
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Re: and I know this.....

Postby Peter Kropotkin » Sat Jan 30, 2021 7:36 pm

Dan~ wrote:
Zero and observ and UR and gloom all make the same argument....
the American/human institutions are flawed, evil, wrong....
but rather then engage with the heart... for this is where I say the
battle to overcome must start, they wish to throw the entire thing out.....
destroy everything down the last bolt..... and what will that accomplish?

Institutions are side effects of human nature.
Changing the core of our nature is what causes or relieves evils.

The heart is a meta problem.
It is the chicken before the egg.

You seem to see this,
although im not sure about your comments on the posters.


K: two things, I am glad you think I "see" this and secondly, I always try
to ground my observations into real life....the path into the future both
individually and collectively is by the awareness of the need for us to
grow and expand and adapt to the ever new conditions we face,
individually and collectively....

by their ever one note observations of the world and the political conditions
we face, they fail to change or adapt to the new conditions....

the very fact that Biden is president and not IQ45 changes the
political structure of America.... and we must change and adapt to
that new reality...the 4 that I mentioned have failed to change or adapt to
the new conditions on the ground... they are still fighting the last battle....
and we have moved onto the new battle.....for the battle is ongoing and ever
changing....and we must adapt and change to meet these new challenges...

if we cannot change and adapt, we are nothing better then dinosaurs
and we all know what happens to dinosaurs.....

Kropotkin
PK IS EVIL.....
Peter Kropotkin
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 9554
Joined: Thu Apr 07, 2005 1:47 am
Location: blue state


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