Desperate Degenerate Support Group

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Re: Desperate Degenerate Support Group

Postby iambiguous » Mon Jan 13, 2020 8:39 pm

This is from one of σάτυρος's claque on the KT Desperate Degenerate thread:

Kvasir wrote:A weak mind will build illusions for a reason. They offer a palatable coping mechanism for future stability of dissappointment or self-betrayal. Illusions offer mortar in the foundation of their identity; where if the integrity of that foundation is compromised or subjected to certain elemental abrasions, they will still have what is left to keep it erect and standing despite severe damage; it will still be viable to give them comfort. But What they lose, consciously or unconsciously in the event of this invariable conflict, is an irretreviable part of themselves, which is what the illusions are based on: self-illusion. To fit the world into thier construction, and when it doesn't fit, that construction's foundation is undermined, but it doesn't crumble, because the illusions simply morph into delusions, making its weakness mutated.


I bring it to your attention only in order to emphasize once again that this is what passes for "serious philosophy" at KT. And, for some, here.

Still, if someone among us is willing to make the attempt to translate it into the language we use in the real world, I would be interested in exploring that.

In other words, given a particular set of circumstances, what might be an example of a "weak mind" wanting to "build illusions for a reason"? Either in regard to a personal experience or pertaining to a context ripped from the headlines.
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

Start here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=176529
Then here: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=185296
And here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=194382
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Re: Desperate Degenerate Support Group

Postby Pedro I Rengel » Mon Jan 13, 2020 8:46 pm

And you can go objectifying the search for wisdom.
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Re: Desperate Degenerate Support Group

Postby iambiguous » Mon Jan 13, 2020 10:53 pm

Pedro I Rengel wrote:And you can go objectifying the search for wisdom.


That's you in the avatar, isn't it? If not, it's exactly what it should be. :wink:
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

Start here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=176529
Then here: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=185296
And here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=194382
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Re: Desperate Degenerate Support Group

Postby Pedro I Rengel » Tue Jan 14, 2020 12:00 am

Huh?!
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Re: Desperate Degenerate Support Group

Postby iambiguous » Tue Jan 14, 2020 12:29 am

Pedro I Rengel wrote:Huh?!


Indeed. And that's exactly how I would expect him to respond. :wink:
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

Start here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=176529
Then here: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=185296
And here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=194382
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Re: Desperate Degenerate Support Group

Postby Pedro I Rengel » Tue Jan 14, 2020 12:57 am

Lol what?!
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Re: Desperate Degenerate Support Group

Postby Pedro I Rengel » Tue Jan 14, 2020 2:57 am

Oops, wrong thread.
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Re: Desperate Degenerate Support Group

Postby iambiguous » Tue Jan 14, 2020 5:47 pm

Pedro I Rengel wrote:Oops, wrong thread.


Finally, something with substance!
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

Start here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=176529
Then here: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=185296
And here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=194382
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Re: Desperate Degenerate Support Group

Postby promethean75 » Tue Jan 14, 2020 6:04 pm

Not necessarily. Or, sure, maybe he might be able to demonstrate for practical purposes why all rational men and women ought to think this is the wrong thread.

Unless, of course, I'm wrong.
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Re: Desperate Degenerate Support Group

Postby iambiguous » Tue Jan 14, 2020 6:36 pm

promethean75 wrote:Not necessarily. Or, sure, maybe he might be able to demonstrate for practical purposes why all rational men and women ought to think this is the wrong thread.

Unless, of course, I'm wrong.


Let's ask him.
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

Start here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=176529
Then here: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=185296
And here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=194382
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Re: Desperate Degenerate Support Group

Postby Pedro I Rengel » Tue Jan 14, 2020 8:05 pm

Nice one, iam !

You must be a summer camp councelor or something.

Truly inspiring. For the youf.
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Re: Desperate Degenerate Support Group

Postby iambiguous » Tue Jan 14, 2020 8:41 pm

Pedro I Rengel wrote:Nice one, iam !

You must be a summer camp councelor or something.

Truly inspiring. For the youf.


Well, paraphrasing myself...

Kids: like shooting fish in a tin can. :D
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

Start here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=176529
Then here: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=185296
And here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=194382
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Re: Desperate Degenerate Support Group

Postby Pedro I Rengel » Tue Jan 14, 2020 10:58 pm

As long as you stop goggling at my avatar there iam...
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Re: Desperate Degenerate Support Group

Postby Pedro I Rengel » Tue Jan 14, 2020 11:00 pm

iambiguous wrote:Kids: like shooting fish in a tin can. :D


I think this betrays more of you than you think.

There's certainly something creepy there...
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Re: Desperate Degenerate Support Group

Postby iambiguous » Tue Jan 14, 2020 11:21 pm

Pedro I Rengel wrote:
iambiguous wrote:Kids: like shooting fish in a tin can. :D


I think this betrays more of you than you think.

There's certainly something creepy there...


Well, after all, I am a desperate degenerate.
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

Start here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=176529
Then here: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=185296
And here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=194382
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Re: Desperate Degenerate Support Group

Postby Pedro I Rengel » Tue Jan 14, 2020 11:46 pm

No... That's not the vibe at all...

BuuHhhuhhuhhhuh...
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Re: Desperate Degenerate Support Group

Postby Pedro I Rengel » Tue Jan 14, 2020 11:50 pm

Creepy old bastard.
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Re: Desperate Degenerate Support Group

Postby Pedro I Rengel » Tue Jan 14, 2020 11:51 pm

THAT'SADELICIOUSTHING-TO-WRITEPEDROOO
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Re: Desperate Degenerate Support Group

Postby promethean75 » Wed Jan 15, 2020 12:36 am

the only time biggs messed with minors was when they loved him long time while he was touring in nam.
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Re: Desperate Degenerate Support Group

Postby Pedro I Rengel » Wed Jan 15, 2020 12:42 am

Lol look who's fucking all pro-America now!

That's alright though I respect that.
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Re: Desperate Degenerate Support Group

Postby promethean75 » Sat Jan 18, 2020 7:49 pm

sarty pants wrote:I believe nihilism is a mental defensiveness to emerging self-consciousness, exposing the individual to himself, as it compares to other. The awareness of natural election, the world's indifference to the plight of the individual


as my students have seen, i've created a remarkable reversal of this general formula to identify that those who's indicative philosophical mood while declaring values - permitting them to forget that there is no teleology in nature, no objective right or wrong, and no intentional purpose for the existence of the universe - forces them into an incoherent position, formally, insofar as they declare their values in the same way one might assert an argument. by this i mean that the nihilism does not yet exist in just stating 'i wish this and that to be so', but rather in the mood and practice of trying to produce lines of reasoning that defend those values. so for example, take a collection of some of sarty's pants arguments that he uses to, say, critique democracy, multiculturalism, religion, etc. each of these critiques can stand to support his personal convictions and values for aristocracy, uniculturalism, atheism (or paganism, whatever). he need not defend himself so far because one is perfectly within the bounds of moral judgement here. but when he tries to argue that his preferences reflect some natural order, or some 'more right' thesis about the 'proper' direction of economics, politics, society, etc., he inadvertently becomes a nihilist - i call this essentially denying the truth. he forgets that these are simply his preferences and becomes philosophical to rationalize their supremacy when no such supremacy exists.

but in order to understand this logic here you have to first realize that nihilism is actually impossible, because it is impossible to not have values. rather the battle against nihilism takes place between 'objectivists' of one variety or another who, in forgetting the contingent nature of their values, assert them in the wrong, indicative mood as formal philosophy. that is, they present them as if they are the result of having come to recognize facts about nature that simply don't exist. so being the case that nihilists don't exist in the traditional sense they are thought of being, the real nihilists are those who... how shall i put this... devalue the value of the knowledge that there are no values in nature beyond those created by thinking beings (who must have memory, anticipate and act intentionally). ergo, sarty pants is a nihilist.

how you like me know, biggs? watch me work son.

I believe nihilism is a mental defensiveness to emerging self-consciousness, exposing the individual to himself, as it compares to other.


okay it couldn't happen here because merely being self-conscious is not yet enough to develop the intellectual underpinnings of the emotional discord felt after accumulating various conclusions of a skeptical nature. an example would be very primitive man. certainly self-conscious, but nihilists? they all truly believed in some form of life after death and were very superstitious. how then could one have the same kind of existential crisis a camus might have in a modern world that has accumulated a great deal of skepticism as the result of the scientific revolution? see? we cannot yet be skeptical about life after death until we have accumulated knowledge that persuades us to dismiss theories of life after death. in short, such primitive men were too dumb to be nihilists.

and what is this 'defensiveness', anyway? can one be in denial of their skeptical nature if they don't yet have a skeptical nature?

and since being 'defensive' already requires a great deal of sophisticated intellectual and emotional capacity, one cannot be defensive against an 'emerging self-consciousness' unless they are already self-conscious... because that's what it takes to be defensive in the first place.

(this is why i don't do philosophy anymore. if i want to play language games i watch wheel of fortune)

i dunno, maybe it would take years of showing this kind of stuff in philosophy for that lightbulb to appear above your head. it's inherent to language in this setting to produce all kinds of ambiguities, and while you all believe you're moving forward in a discussion, you're actually moving perpetually backwards in the same way derrida described the production of the philosophical text. for instance, when sarty pants sees this post, he'll produce another one in which he'll say 'no, this is what i meant.' that post itself will involve its own ambiguities, which he will then work out in yet another post. the very process of substantiating philosophical statements that involve more than tautologies, analytical truths or inductive statements of the natural sciences, will always be subject to this endless deconstructive problem. but cha'll niggas go'head and do whatchu do. i'm fixin to ride one of my motorsickles. imma flip a coin. heads the cbr, tails the sv.
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Re: Desperate Degenerate Support Group

Postby iambiguous » Wed Jan 22, 2020 7:09 pm

Kvasir wrote:Degeneracy has a distinct smell to it. Just like any form of inferiority. Because it has no strength of stability, it can't help but reveal what it is, it can't hold back, it keeps on giving. It is gregarious, open, vociferous.

But there is another side. It is capable of hiding, being silent, and even critical thinking ability. Because even forms of weakness may still have vestiges of strength; like underdeveloped physical appendages with mutated advantages that have adapted to survive in other ways; compensating for the major defects. But as it does, it still cannot correct those defects, they lag behind, and the inferiorities win out in the end, they get the better of the situation. If anything, those advantageous skill sets only heighten the veracity of the weaknesses to announce themselves even more, as they are the dominant traits.


This is actually what passes for "serious philosophy" at KT. And, as often as not, here too. Post after post after post in which thundering assertions of this sort completely bypass any attempt to actually illustrate the text.

"Inferior", "strength of stability", "gregarious, open, vociferous", "hiding, being silent", "forms of weakness", "vestiges of strength" and on and on and on.

And if I ask what particular human behaviors in what particular contexts all of this is supposed to be describing, I get slimed. Indeed, the only thing we can be assured of in this regard is that if you don't share σάτυρος's own value judgments that is the one and the only thing that it does take to make you a desperate degenerate.
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

Start here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=176529
Then here: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=185296
And here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=194382
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Re: Desperate Degenerate Support Group

Postby promethean75 » Wed Jan 22, 2020 8:12 pm

"he slimed me" - iambiguous
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Re: Desperate Degenerate Support Group

Postby iambiguous » Wed Jan 22, 2020 8:20 pm

promethean75 wrote:"he slimed me" - iambiguous


I knew that was coming.

But I was thinking more in the way of this from Merriam-Webster: US, informal: a morally repulsive or odious person

And, no, I wouldn't entirely rule it out. :wink:
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

Start here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=176529
Then here: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=185296
And here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=194382
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Re: Desperate Degenerate Support Group

Postby promethean75 » Sat Feb 01, 2020 8:34 pm

sarty pants wrote:It is this stated "promotion of perspectivism" mentioned in the conversation, which makes Wittgenstein a favoured idol for Desperate Degenerates wishing to escape being perceived as who and what they truly are.
A way of evading judgement, and claim innocence.

'It's all subjective', does the same, using different lingo.


biggs, you gotta stop him, man. don't let him go there... he'll lose what very few marbles he has left. few things going on in these forums is more entertaining than watching this guy try to understand wittgenstein, but not by much.

W would never say such a thing... and anybody who thinks he would could use a good reading of his 'private language' theory. that would be the end of that.

if anything he'd say ethical and aesthetic statements are subjective, and only because of the kind of cognitive content they produce... something strictly emotive and incapable of expressing facts about the world. for example, curtis can be both a dickhead and a great guy, depending on who you ask. but texas cannot not be the biggest state. neither can the statement 'neptune orbits the sun' be false at this moment.
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