Dimethyltryptamine and psychedelics

[Prismatic567]

It felt as if I am god but also have my limits of individuality of course..

I have doing loads of research on this subject but have never taken any related drugs.
I have experienced DMT-liked experiences [I believe very mild ones] from various meditations and breathing techniques.

From what you have experienced would you agree with my [& others] hypothesis,
most of the founders of religions and spirituality, notable theistic ones, would [or may] have similar experiences of being God or God was speaking to them where they have chanced upon such God related experiences from the following;

-ingestion of hallucinogens [accidentally or deliberately]
-suffering from temporal epilepsy
-tumor around the temporal area
-undue stress
-schizo and the likes
-others

Note this recent NGEO video;

Medical Reason for Visions? | The Story of God
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NZUEy0DkXAo
This guy has a tumor [shown in MRIs] around his temporal lobe that triggered all sorts of god related and psychedelic experiences.

It seems you are attempting at chalking it up to mental illness or solely due to the brain, which isn't the case.

Not that.

I believe the brain is central but the whole experiences is related to the whole body and the inherent DNA [nature] plus experiences [nurture].

ALL humans has the potential for psychedelic experiences as embedded within the DNA, the brain and body.
This potential for psychedelic can be triggered by various means, i.e. drugs, hallucinogens, stress, mental illness and others elements & activity that activate the algorithm to generate the psychedelic experiences.

The brain doesn't manifest consciousness, consciousness manifests into the brain, otherwise, how would we have very much /aware/ plants and animals, some who have no brains or ego, they are close to nature, innocent aspects of the subconscious, children as well, why are children innocent you may ask? Because they have no ego, they're purely manifested as the subconscious until a certain age, when the brain develops to grant them ego and full consciousness. This shows proof of what I state, observable to any human who wishes to see the connections. Imagination, dreams, love, etc. All things a child can feel without having fully developed, right? Know why? \Because the unconscious mind is what brings this all about, not the other way around.
It's evolution.
Chaos and order, subconscious and conscious, do you see how we are on the third step (physically manifested) trying to get to the 4th?
Problem is, we have been on repeat on this 3rd step for a very, very long time and Nature is tired of repetition. Trial and error, so pick what you wish to be and better choose quick before it picks for you because it often chooses error and wipes the earth clean or tries, has it not before?

Humans had evolved from one cell living things since 3 billion years ago and this whole program is embedded in the human DNA which set up the potential for psychedelic experiences.

However humans has developed a highly evolved ego that suppresses the potential for psychedelic experience which is why humans has to transcend the ego and trigger the relevant buttons to generate psychedelic experiences.

The brain is merely a tool granted in our body by evolution and subconscious/nature, it breaks down chemicals to function in a physical and chemically stabled world, without a body we couldn't exist physically, right? But consciousness does, to say it doesn't is to say nature exists because of man, physical phenomena and brains.

I would say 'consciousness' [human or otherwise] is also granted by evolution.

Note there are counter argument by Kant who stated 'nature' is spontaneously co-created by humans. This is very counter-intuitive but there is a philosophical argument for it.

Thus the Order and Regularity in the Appearances, which we entitle Nature, we ourselves introduce.
We could never find them in Appearances, had not we ourselves, or the Nature of our mind, originally set them there.
For this Unity of Nature has to be a Necessary one, that is, has to be an a priori certain Unity of the Connection of Appearances; and such Synthetic Unity could not be established a priori if there were not Subjective Grounds of such Unity contained a priori in the Original Cognitive Powers of our mind, and if these Subjective Conditions, inasmuch as they are the Grounds of the Possibility of knowing any Object whatsoever in Experience, were not at the same time Objectively Valid.
A125

A perfectly normal person can take a psychedelic and return to being perfectly normal, people abuse them all the time. You think I have talked with "god" due to a drug? I am it, I can talk to myself all day and all night without any drugs involved other than the ones in my brain already. When I say I talk to "god" I mean I am literally talking to myself, a self without any bias, like a psychologist. Does that make sense? Considering we are both conscious and subconscious, I have already stated, it is communication between the two and the subconscious criticizes the ego if it has done anything wrong or about where it needs improvement "bad trip, ego death".

In the past some people may have chanced upon to experience such psychedelic experiences due to various triggers, example mental illnesses, brain damage, hallucinogens, mushrooms, etc.

Mental illness is created by this society and it's ignorant poisoning of people using toxic minerals and metals along with psychological manipulation/entrapment, a drug that expands perception and binds to serotonin/melatonin receptors does not induce mental illness other than "hppd", unless one already has a mental illness disorder embedded in their genes previously due to the very same poisoning from society, they speed up or heighten the risk of it manifesting. Traumas and stress carry on through genes, make sense? One can breed illness out, just like with a plant, except humanity is foolish and breeds idiocy and issues instead, then they try to fix the issue and create a whole other branch of issues. It's about breaking the cycle, not continuing it.

Those "religious experiences" and theistic approaches are merely man trying to explain and paint a picture of psyche, don't get confused by the terminology as being something external to you, it is you, your subconscious/unconscious self of which you can talk to anytime.

Whether is natural or created by society, the fact is a certain % of human suffer from mental illnesses.
Some of these mental patients experienced God related experiences.
2000+ or lesser years ago, there were no psychiatric and scientists to explain their experiences, thus it is likely these people could claim to be the chosen ones by a God, thus founded a religion.
Do you think this is possible?
Note, people like Moses, Jesus, Paul of Damascus, Mohammed were associated with such experiences and hearing sounds.

As I said, the drugs, all they do is paint an image, it's the evidence so a man won't go insane due to thought in metaphorical context. It's the physical, literal evidence for the mind to digest and correlate to the metaphorical. They help speed evolution by heightening and expanding perception along with forced criticism. Psychedelics are subconscious/nature's mirror.

I believe DNA wise, ALL humans has evolved with the potential for psychedelic experiences which can be released by various triggers, i.e. drugs, stress, mental illness, brain damage, electronic magnetic waves triggers, etc.
All these experiences can be abused and also has positive contributions.

My hypothesis is;
The trigger of the psychedelic experiences in SOME via various triggers in the past has led to these people claiming to be agent of God and has founded various religions.
You agree? or disagree?

The point is those who deliberately take drug trips and experience God related experience would not likely claim to be agents of God. Rather it is those who have had such sudden experiences of God related consciousness would like claim they were chosen by God be be God's agent, e.g. Moses hearing sound from the burning bushes, Jesus hearing from God, Muhammad hearing from Allah to listen, Paul blasted with an experience on the road to Damascus, etc.

[Artimas]

"Not that.

I believe the brain is central but the whole experiences is related to the whole body and the inherent DNA [nature] plus experiences [nurture].

ALL humans has the potential for psychedelic experiences as embedded within the DNA, the brain and body.
This potential for psychedelic can be triggered by various means, i.e. drugs, hallucinogens, stress, mental illness and others elements & activity that activate the algorithm to generate the psychedelic experiences."

The brain is central in a sense, think a TV set or hardware, plugged into the wall it has power like we are plugged into reality(consciousness), we have power here, now cable or wifi, it receives and projects onto the screen, an image, think of the subconscious, now think of the remote to the TV, our ability to make choices and choose what we project. The subconscious feeds our consciousness through imagery and being between two states we can correlate this imagery to express our spiritual or "psychedelic" experiencing through language or also use imagery and just project it, we get ideas from the subconscious, it's like a cookie jar of information, symbols, etc and once one becomes conscious of such, they can willfully search for answers to specific questions and attempt correlating or bringing the answer to the surface using self. Our brain is complex because it is needed to be complex and it is /still/ evolving or devolving, it all depends upon what environment you choose and which archetype you want to try and project, attitude and consistency. A lot of people are devolving because they are the embodiment of death, we are unique to be unique for the sake of evolution, yet they all try and be like each other and don't let themselves out to live and express, that's death in a sense, a ceasing to experience as self.

You don't -have- to use psychedelics or study them to achieve these states of mind or thoughts/conclusions, they just are a mirror to show evidence. Just like I believe my eyes are the color they are but if I look in a glass mirror or reflection, I can understand fully and know for sure that they are, in both literal and metaphorical contexts. If one is spiritual one can achieve answers without any drugs but the drugs may be used as a short cut and I believe it's possible they have already had a significant effect/affect on our evolutionary path to bringing us to this point, both physically and mentally(perception), the proof is in ancient texts through symbolism and their language, which is not easy to understand. One can be spiritual without psychedelics, but one who is not spiritual at all may become such through psychedelic experiencing without seeking to be such, it is due to its profound nature.


"Humans had evolved from one cell living things since 3 billion years ago and this whole program is embedded in the human DNA which set up the potential for psychedelic experiences.

However humans has developed a highly evolved ego that suppresses the potential for psychedelic experience which is why humans has to transcend the ego and trigger the relevant buttons to generate psychedelic experiences."

I view what you're talking about as spirituality if it's outside of using a hallucinogenic or study of psychedelic culture itself, to get answers from the self you must first, ask questions to understand the answers, not simply to know them quickly because often the messages are missed or misinterpreted and the drugs may be abused.

The ego is developed to be how it is due to a specific environment, not solely the ego alone. If we taught children how to think and not what to think and acted as guides instead of authority figures of indoctrination, we would have a lot more people talking about what I am saying and living for self, we would be choosing to evolve instead of devolve to suicide, we are attempting at detaching from nature by use of the ego and an invented environment of comfort, when we devolve, we will die from trying to do such because nature is the ruler here and it will swat us like we do a mosquito. It's like a 3 year old child trying to run away from its parents. What do you think happens the worst or the best?

We don't need solutions or "fixes" we need states of mind, this state of mind can be applied to solve any issue rather than us wasting time showing one solution or one way methods that ultimately don't work, a solution without understanding the issue is not a solution but instead a whole new issue. We have dug ourselves into a cycle of creating more issues by trying to solve one due to a lack of understanding of the issues roots. Showing what to think is less potent than a state of mind/how to think, this is the state of "enlightenment" that is so talked about. It isn't just one piece of knowledge and you're "enlightened", it is a comprehension, a way of dissecting information, a state of mind/thinking and it takes training to arrive there as it would to become a black belt in jiu jitsu, some have advantage and some have disadvantage, that's dependent on environment.

Breaking that cycle of repetitively breeding willful ignorance is where we evolve and make progress, we create unnecessary work for ourself due to a misshaping of next generations/children's egos, the proof? Society is it now, notice how everyone is trying to save something? How about saving and establishing yourself first, a seed with no roots will never be a tree just like a human with no understanding or proper state of mind will never properly/permanently solve issues.

It's a repetitive cycle and nature is tired, the collective urgency and my being here at all and talking about this is evidence, along with the bright minds in the past that were gifts to man but suffered greatly.. I'm no one superior to anyone or thing who has ever walked or ever will walk this earth, we all live off of shit and best be humble about it.

However, it may seem that way to an average common Joe or the mass populace but that is because he doesn't want to be up, he wants to be down and I would rather be up and so he would associate me with his own discomfort and insecurity through projection of me claiming or attempting to be "superior" when in reality he is creating the weakness in himself. To be a God, one must accept the obligations, the weight and the responsibility in being it, people don't want responsibility of self let alone to be an embodiment of "god", they want their hands held and to be comfortable, there is no new knowledge in comfort and I am trapped in a society of comfort when we should be seeking more to evolve ourself before we are wiped out.

"Jesus" said he'd be back, get it? He understood environment and how nature works and how an environment of struggle will always be created to breed the idea of him and what he stands for, back here, he was merely an idea and is immortal, he's back already and pissed that the message was missed/misinterpreted. "Jesus" is like batman, an immortal archetype and a state of mind to be achieved, an understanding, anyone who wishes to put in the effort, may be it and possibly even better than the past idea due to unique expression.


"would say 'consciousness' [human or otherwise] is also granted by evolution.

Note there are counter argument by Kant who stated 'nature' is spontaneously co-created by humans. This is very counter-intuitive but there is a philosophical argument for it."

Consciousness manifests through our evolution, yes, that's obvious as a child grows, it evolves consciousness. Subconscious is the root though, the eternal child, the "god".

Nature is Co-created by humans, that's undeniable, we are mere branches of it and we expand it via experiencing, this doesn't mean if we, humanity, cease to exist that nature will. Fossils show otherwise but the point is to grow so if anything, humanity would be wiped for something else to take our place and I hope thy choose to evolve, like what supposedly happened to the dinosaurs. "Life goes on within you and without you "
Cut off a tree branch, the tree may still stand along with keeping it's roots established, the branch is what goes away, that's consciousness(ego) and subconsciousness.

Nature/subconscious is here to stay, ego/humanity may not be, that's up to us and our choice on what we wish to do in regards to evolution/devolution. It's comfort or struggle, pick one but they are not as they seem, only for the present moment. You pick struggle? Then you will grow and the contrast will show in the future, strength. It all boils down to contrast, chaos and order.

"In the past some people may have chanced upon to experience such psychedelic experiences due to various triggers, example mental illnesses, brain damage, hallucinogens, mushrooms, etc."

Yes they have and some understood/understand and some don't, it depends upon ones Intent while experiencing. Seek answers for the sake of understanding and they will appear to one so they may.

"Whether is natural or created by society, the fact is a certain % of human suffer from mental illnesses.
Some of these mental patients experienced God related experiences.
2000+ or lesser years ago, there were no psychiatric and scientists to explain their experiences, thus it is likely these people could claim to be the chosen ones by a God, thus founded a religion.
Do you think this is possible?
Note, people like Moses, Jesus, Paul of Damascus, Mohammed were associated with such experiences and hearing sounds."

Religion is weaponized spirituality, to keep people bred ignorant and passive to have a society such as this one, so groups of individuals that are rich can be at the top and control the foundation of where we go, collectivel. Spirituality I believe could be manifested naturally through environment, so sure a mental "illness" could change ones perception and bring about a certain state of mind or being but one has to define mental illness more definitively, what is "normal"? Is staying in a standardized repetitive program/society, normal when reality is anything but normal? See how that's bred passivity and ignorance?


"The trigger of the psychedelic experiences in SOME via various triggers in the past has led to these people claiming to be agent of God and has founded various religions.
You agree? or disagree?"

Well the Buddha says not to use drugs at all, so how would that be founded on psychedelic experience? I disagree because you are conflating spirituality with psychedelic culture and also conflating taking a drug with culture. One can have the culture and understanding without the drug, that's what spirituality is, the drug is merely the proof for your own eyes.
It could have but I don't think religion came from it or spirituality. Spirituality is natural. I do believe drugs evolved us but religion is made by man and is not evolution, it's devolution. Spirituality and psychedelic culture is evolution, spirituality being natural and psychedelic culture an attempt at speeding up evolution by change of perception or new idea to project/manifest into reality. It's a tool to use to communicate between conscious and subconscious self to correlate new ideas through a limited objective brain, do you understand?


"The point is those who deliberately take drug trips and experience God related experience would not likely claim to be agents of God. Rather it is those who have had such sudden experiences of God related consciousness would like claim they were chosen by God be be God's agent, e.g. Moses hearing sound from the burning bushes, Jesus hearing from God, Muhammad hearing from Allah to listen, Paul blasted with an experience on the road to Damascus, etc."

It's an understanding of being "god", not merely a claim to be made. It is knowing without understanding but knowing is the first step to the path, seeking to understand is the second. It's like me trying to describe blue to you. You have to experience it to see the proof of it, do some more research. We are all drugs, some drugs help us, some drugs don't help us, psychedelics are merely mirrors.

[Pandora]

What is it that you think happens when you trip? You see pink elephants and flying pigs out of nowhere?

. You’re jumbling the signals and stimulations in your brain. If a human brain is like an intricate clockwork, that took evolution millions of years to design, why do you want to mess with it? This is like saying that a heathy brain is not good enough for you.

What actually happens is that you're experiencing the exact same world, but in different ways that you never even considered before. It's extremely powerful and humbling to have your normal interpretation of reality completely swept off its feet and transformed - spatially, temporally, sensorially... you can even play with some of the basic settings, like proportions, light and dimmness, the order of events, what you perceive a piece of sensory information as, all with the power of your mind. Some settings are turned way up, like sense of smell - it's beautiful.

Try taking things for granted, and being as dismissive and prejudiced as you're being after a trip... ha.

. I think you’re the one taking things for granted here with drug use. I don’t need to poke my eyes out to appreciate my sense of vision.

You can believe schizophrenia is induced by such substances all you like, and it still wouldn't be true. At best you might find that people who are prone to such mental conditions are more attracted by psychedelic drugs, but things like schizophrenia have a huge genetic component and I seem to remember they tend to be set off to occur in your twenties from all the way back from in the womb. I'm sure it's possible to ingest certain poisonous mushrooms that have hallucinagenic effects and damage your mind, but that's not the same.

If you’ve listened to what James Kent was saying, you’d see correlations between visions produced by psychedelics and during near death experiences. The brain reacts to hallucinogens as if it were dying (same reaction).

Something like LSD is actually more likely to be a cure for schizophrenia than a cause - and it's helped many terminally ill people cope with their fear of death. The potential uses of drugs like LSD are actually really promising, but it's people like you who swallow all the fear and propaganda that keep the laws in place that prevent studies from being done that could really help people. It's genuinelly tragic.

I believe that it is inevitable that some form of psychosis will be formed after prolonged use of psychedelics. One can’t have experiences that feel “more real than real” and then keep coming back to reality and just forget about it, especially if one keeps reinforcing these experiences (neuron formations).
One will downplay the fact that these supra-real experiences were caused by drugs, which is a very important fact, and then go down the rabbit hole of justifying it as something more than it really is. This is what eventually happened to Terrance McKenna. It is a swamp land and will eventually drag one in completely. How does one escape a drug induced “more real than real” experience?

[Artimas]

Pandora,

"You’re jumbling the signals and stimulations in your brain. If a human brain is like an intricate clockwork, that took evolution millions of years to design, why do you want to mess with it? This is like saying that a heathy brain is not good enough for you. "

I don't mean to answer for Sil but I just want to make a few things clear, just some a few misconceptions.

It took a long time to evolve the brain yes, that is undoubtedly and I believe drugs have played a huge role in such evolution, it is obvious enough that it did, considering our receptors/body secretes them.

No, you aren't correctly comprehending what we are saying or at least what I am saying, we can understand without the drugs, that isn't the point, but how can we know for sure that our psychology and studies on mankinds psyche are accurate? The literal, objective proof is there, in nature in the form of drugs, which our bodies so happen to consist of. Death is an illusion, what death truly is, is the ceasing of your unique ego in the present moment and it's ability to interact/express with and in it. We recycle due to the law of conservation, if one has children that is preservation of genetics and also one is remembered as an idea, which /can/ be misconstrued and misleading. Ideas are immortal and that's all we are, collections of ideas. My brain is just fine, I took psychedelics for the colors and to merely experience them, to expand my perception and mind. Part of evolving is understanding you can choose your own evolutionary path, hence, psychedelics are a mere tool in doing such.



". I think you’re the one taking things for granted here with drug use. I don’t need to poke my eyes out to appreciate my sense of vision"

That's the issue, Pandora, you think your eyes are fully open and they aren't, psychedelics merely show you what reality is, what we cannot consciously always see due to our perception being limited, why is it limited you may ask? Because of man kinds choice to remain in a redundant, mundane environment of which crafts more basicness and non-originality. It Isn't "more real than real", it simply is, it enhances perception so one may fully glimpse the bigger picture, not necessary as I said but it -is- the literal evidence of which science is looking for. Context matters.

"If you’ve listened to what James Kent was saying, you’d see correlations between visions produced by psychedelics and during near death experiences. The brain reacts to hallucinogens as if it were dying (same reaction). "

But that is a good thing if your entire life has been trauma and you're seeking to change yourself from within so you may change things that are outside of in, projection of ideas into reality. "Death of ego by detachment of it to understand you get to choose what your ego represents."

"Death" as I described it above, is what is, a complete ceasing of existence as thought of in a literal only sense of thinking, not so much, we recycle (law of conservation) back as something else unique because we never stop experiencing as the subconsciousness. Only an ego "dies" and it depends on your definition of what death is.

"I believe that it is inevitable that some form of psychosis will be formed after prolonged use of psychedelics. One can’t have experiences that feel “more real than real” and then keep coming back to reality and just forget about it, especially if one keeps reinforcing these experiences (neuron formations).
One will downplay the fact that these supra-real experiences were caused by drugs, which is a very important fact, and then go down the rabbit hole of justifying it as something more than it really is. This is what eventually happened to Terrance McKenna. It is a swamp land and will eventually drag one in completely. How does one escape a drug induced “more real than real” experience?"

It doesn't feel "more real" it just feels like it is what it is, until it is what you make it. Everything is caused by drugs man, get a grip on reality. Reality is -literally- a collection of chemical reactions. Literally.. And you're arguing that certain drugs are bad that expand perception and creativity which is MUCH needed today but agree with societies ideas of drug's? That cause severe basicness in thoughts and manifestation of self, a delay in our collective evolution.

Terence didn't get lost in psychedelics, he was merely trying to express the imagery from the subconscious, consciously. Which I am not sure you understand what I mean because you don't have the experience, like I said. I can't describe blue to you, if you want full fledged literal evidence, it's sitting in front of you, just be cautious of your genetics.

[Silhouette]

You’re jumbling the signals and stimulations in your brain. If a human brain is like an intricate clockwork, that took evolution millions of years to design, why do you want to mess with it? This is like saying that a heathy brain is not good enough for you.

The brain is not some kind of fragile antique - you're exactly right that it took millions of years of evolution to make it as adaptive as it is, it's miracle enough that it's possible to kill it.

Its workings change and are messed with and jumbled as part of a normal natural life, even the healthiest of lives. Many trials and tribulations, produced through natural selection the best brains that can deal with even unnecessary or unlikely stimuli - in fact it's even theorised that man's progression this far was enabled by the ingestion of psychotropics, even that language itself became possible as a result of them. I don't know how reliable that theory is, but it's known at least that hallucinogenic experiences were something of a right of passage in many cultures - the effects revered enough to be elevated to ceremonious usage. What is this false dichotomy between the healthy brain and the use of "drugs"?

Again you're arguing from a position of ignorance - how do you feel when men lecture you on how it is to be a woman? You would prefer they ask you first before forming an opinion, no?

I think you’re the one taking things for granted here with drug use. I don’t need to poke my eyes out to appreciate my sense of vision.

Don't poke out your eyes, appreciate what you have. Would you like to know what having a third eye is like? All that extra insight that it may or may not give to you... better not stray from the straight and narrow though, the safe and the known. Why travel when you can live in the same town all your life? You appreciate life just fine in that same old home.

If you’ve listened to what James Kent was saying, you’d see correlations between visions produced by psychedelics and during near death experiences. The brain reacts to hallucinogens as if it were dying (same reaction).

Again, the P → Q, P → R ∴ Q → R fallacy. You should analyse what you are saying to prevent making the same mistake over and over.

I believe that it is inevitable that some form of psychosis will be formed after prolonged use of psychedelics. One can’t have experiences that feel “more real than real” and then keep coming back to reality and just forget about it, especially if one keeps reinforcing these experiences (neuron formations).
One will downplay the fact that these supra-real experiences were caused by drugs, which is a very important fact, and then go down the rabbit hole of justifying it as something more than it really is. This is what eventually happened to Terrance McKenna. It is a swamp land and will eventually drag one in completely. How does one escape a drug induced “more real than real” experience?

Did you know that it's possible to drink too much water?

Better stay on the safe side and never drink it.

[Pandora]

Oh, that question wasn't in the context of which you thought it was. I understand what reality is, I was testing to see if you do,

Considering you’re a psychedelic drug user, I’m not even sure what that means.

I don't doubt my basic senses I have been saying the same thing before I ever tried a psychedelic, just in less complex terminology and from a point where I lacked the language, understanding and imagery to fully express it to its full extent, go back to my posts in 2014 and you will see for yourself. Because it doesn't work in that way, it's a collective effort and understanding, if a single bee cannot build a hive on its own, does a hive truly not exist due to it not being in "reality"? Oh but there are tons of bees and tons of hives in our reality, chaotic ones, hornets more like.

not sure where you’re going with this.

"Reality" is merely nature, the natural laws that govern this physical dimension, what we make out of this physical dimension to the extent of its universal laws is up to us. I alone can't build space ships to fly to Mars because i alone do not have all of the skills necessary to do such, it is impossible for a one individual. It's collective effort. I can't believe that you are thinking in such a literal only type, or "objective", when it is very blatant that reality is based off of perception. How do you describe blue to me?

yes, we are restricted by our biology, but it’s the same biology that has allowed us to survive this song. Scrambling it with drugs will not improve on it.

Being physical is merely a step of evolution, explain to me since the brain creates consciousness, how does a tree feel pain?

trees react to stimulus, they do not feel pain. And we do not stop being physical because everything is still based on it. The physical may evolve to become more complex or compatmentalized (or specialized) for efficiency’s sake. But that also makes it more vulnerable to corruptions. The human body is quite an intricate mechanism. It has some back up redundancies but if one found a way to bypass them (as with specific drugs) then the whole system may be compromised.

I'm in reality, watching a show on TV unfortunately, instead of exploring space and building things that matter or that enhance us, trying to show you the depths of perception and how illusive "reality" really can be, which you seem to believe it to be a materialistic manifestation into consciousness instead of consciousness evolving into materialism.

Oh boy.

It is a dream and we can't make it what I or you want because other people lack understanding of what is, they don't understand themself and the power of their mind, they don't understand how environment works, they don't understand how to think and they don't understand reactions of variables to the full extent. If we were all aligned in perception and understanding what is and what can be, do you deny that we could accomplish anything within the boundaries of universal laws?

Aligned by all of us doing drugs?

Do you deny evolution stems from collective diversity and diverse perception and an exchanging of ideas that lead to reactions through trial and error?

Natural selection drives evolution, and it has formed our bodies and sense organs to function as they do now. If you want to take it into your own hands and do hallucinogens (which our body perceives as poison) you may now do so, but I believe this move is an error. Most drug users, even in our relatively comfortable modern worlds do not end well (I’m not even speaking about survival of drug users in the wild).

I don't need psychedelics to detach from my ego but it's an easy way of showing that one /can/ detach from it and that the subconscious is ultimately dominant since it is eternal, it is reality, the vibration.

the subconscious is not eternal, it is undifferentiated and unintelligent. When you deal with subconscious the GIGO rule applies: it will give you what you want, it will not give you “reality”.

The natural state of man is that of the subconscious, before a child is shaped to the extent of which doesn't involve genetics. Genetics are the advantages or disadvantages one may face while being physical and conscious, environment shapes personality more so. Genetics are mere preservation of information, information contaminated by previous environment, see the loop? Environment shapes individual consciousness (ego), subconsciousness is both nothing and everything, chaos or order, it's like a piece of clay, full of possibilities, a child is purely the subconscious until it becomes aware and indoctrinated by environment, it depends upon the environment of which shapes one and has shaped their ancestors before them that determines which side of the coin one becomes manifested as and these are where "archetypes" or generalized traits/aspects of multiple personalities come from...

the formation of ego is like the hardening of the skull in a growing child, or hardening of spikes in a baby porcupine, it is something that one is born with. The human ego develops naturally at about 3 years, it is not an indoctrination process.

One may also see the loop and decide to break it and avoid contribution to it and choose which archetype they wish to manifest as by choosing it's environment, we eventually will breed our primitive instincts that no longer serve us out of existence, if, collectively achieving more understanding of these concepts and an encouraged, hastier evolution.

. The laws of nature and survival have not changed. To breed instincts out will mean extinction.

No information is useless information in the subconscious due to how correlation and imagery works, the brain correlates between unique ego/consciousness and subconsciousness. Subconsciousness does seem to have intelligence of its own though, what do you think nature is, environment, ideas come to us from the subconsciousness, dreams may provide insightful warnings? Do these things not exist to you? Intuition?

Built in instincts, yes. But you’re romanticising subconscious too much, I think. Like I said, it cannot give you all the answers, at best it can give you want you really want, it can give you a confirmation (which could be a lie), hense GIGO. It is not an independent or intelligent entity.

You have taken on an objective only style of thinking when the mind isn't objective, only physical reality is, to the extent of universal laws. We are not just one or the other, we're both, objective and subjective.

. I did not claim to be wholly objective, only conservative.

The fact is, I can dream and manifest it, that's reality, reality is micro to macro, so what's that say about us? We're a manifested dream, we're mere possibilities of it, subconsciousness, nothing must be nothing so that everything has a possibility to be everything, do you understand that? It's contrast, balance, that's what existence is based off of, balance between chaos and order and it evolves itself just like we do because we are it evolving collectively.

that sounds like a drug induced perception.

Psychedelics don't work the way you think they do. What you feel or what environment you are in is what manifests in the trip, your thoughts become your reality. If I start thinking of helicopters coming for me on lsd I will start seeing bright lights in the sky as if it were happening, reality is what you perceive it to be.

You ignore the error element. Reality perceived on drugs is not the same as reality perceived while sober. If you’re saying it is while already sober then I would have to say that you’re merging the two and already knee deep in the swamp.

You don't just "see spirits", you merely explore the subconsciousness in a conscious sense by manifesting the subconscious into reality temporarily, like creating a temporary coexistence of dream in conscious/reality to experience.

. A drug induced conscious dream state (hallucination) is a corruption of perception of reality, which you call just another reality. So, I’m curious if you even recognize a general concept of corruption (or error in) of perception of reality? Because if you don’t then survival and all mechanisms associated with it would become functionally irrelevant. In fact, your own existence would become irrelevant as well.

Not a torture method, it's a method of brainwashing by killing ones already temporary ego/consciousness so it may be reshaped. By forcing them into an environment of nothingness consistently until they become nothing, to be shaped as the CIA pleases. It's a method of control and brainwash, not necessarily "torture" because it could also be used for a good purpose.

. Well, all brainwashing has a good purpose, depending on who you ask.

Yes, you can become sober at will on a psychedelic, by taking a benzo and calming the trip down. Taking psychedelic with understanding of what they are and with intentions to understand or see the evidence of what I say if wanting to actually understand, yes, I do believe it to be better than societal indoctrination, considering the model I see in my head is much more liberating and just than what is currently available.

By taking drugs you’re not engaging reality, you’re engaging only your reality (i.e. fantasy). All you did is redefine your reality as more (or just as) real, and then you proceeded down the road of escapism.

I have complete control over myself while tripping on lsd or mushrooms,

I think that you yourself really honestly believe that you can do all of that, especially while tripping, and maybe even more, but that’s the limit of it, and that’s the catch of the drug bait - full conviction, which makes it even more dangerous.

Yet you think that this has nothing to do with heightening perception realistically by forming new neural pathways by binding to receptors... Mkay.

. I would not want to form neural pathways on drugs. That’s self maiming and is wrong on so many levels.

I want to see the stars.. But society makes it harder than necessary to do so by this thing called, money and enslavement through social status. So much for "reality".

. Then move to a desert. The living there is usually cheaper, and it’s less crowded. People actually do that. (In real life!)

James Kent, I looked him up and he doesn't seem like a strong source of evidence to prove psychedelics induce mental disorders without genetics being directly involved compared to the studies already done regarding the issue which show otherwise. It almost seemed as if he were advocating psychedelics of perhaps doesnt understand what is and what could be.

He’s not advocating psychedelics, although he himself used them (he considers himself a part of drug culture), but he’s pointing to the lack of research (a point conceded to Silhuette) and their dangers which most people in drug culture choose to downplay or circumvent.
Perhaps more time is needed to see the greater fallout of this experiment, but I think it will eventually confirm my belief. There is a big drug culture fad going on right now and everybody’s jumping on the bandwagon as if it were the next best thing, but reality does not work this naively. If it’s too good to be true, too easy, or presented as a shortcut, it’s likely just another trap, and considering how it works on the brain, a very powerful one.

[Pandora]

... and I believe drugs have played a huge role in such evolution, it is obvious enough that it did, considering our receptors/body secretes them.

. I don’t belive that drugs evolved us, although there is an argument for hallucination induced cave art based on sensory deprivation.
But hallucinogens are incompatible with survival in the wild. This would have been a quick error in natural selection trial.

, but how can we know for sure that our psychology and studies on mankinds psyche are accurate? The literal, objective proof is there, in nature in the form of drugs, which our bodies so happen to consist of.

. This is the trap of the drugs: answer is in the drugs and drugs are the answer. Reminds me of the ketamine addiction piece with James Kent: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=87A7bDY2Dac

Death is an illusion, what death truly is, is the ceasing of your unique ego in the present moment and it's ability to interact/express with and in it. We recycle due to the law of conservation, if one has children that is preservation of genetics and also one is remembered as an idea, which /can/ be misconstrued and misleading. Ideas are immortal and that's all we are, collections of ideas. My brain is just fine, I took psychedelics for the colors and to merely experience them, to expand my perception and mind.

Well, if death is an illusion, then so is life. What else do you have left? Are you alive? Do you exist, Altimas?

Part of evolving is understanding you can choose your own evolutionary path, hence, psychedelics are a mere tool in doing such.

Psychedelics are not your friends trying to guide you through evolution. That’s not what poisons do. You’d get more use out of eating an omelette.

That's the issue, Pandora, you think your eyes are fully open and they aren't, psychedelics merely show you what reality is, what we cannot consciously always see due to our perception being limited,

thats already a disrespectful attitude towards that which has made you.

why is it limited you may ask? Because of man kinds choice to remain in a redundant, mundane environment of which crafts more basicness and non-originality.

Mundane and basic is not irrelevant.

It Isn't "more real than real", it simply is, it enhances perception so one may fully glimpse the bigger picture, not necessary as I said but it -is- the literal evidence of which science is looking for. Context matters.

. In other words, drugs are the answer.

But that is a good thing if your entire life has been trauma and you're seeking to change yourself from within so you may change things that are outside of in, projection of ideas into reality.

chemical brainwashing. I think the drug cartels are in full agreement with you here, except that one small recurrent detail...that all such roads inevitably lead back... to drugs. Coincidence?
The new alpha and the omega.

[Pandora]

Don't poke out your eyes, appreciate what you have. Would you like to know what having a third eye is like? All that extra insight that it may or may not give to you... better not stray from the straight and narrow though, the safe and the known. Why travel when you can live in the same town all your life? You appreciate life just fine in that same old home

If I believe that your reasoning and discriminating abilities have been compromized, to the point that you are completely convinced of realness of drug induced delusions, how could I convince you that you are wrong. Again, this brings us back to the fact that you obtained your knowledge from drugs and not while sober. This is like me claiming that what I saw while dreaming last night is an actual existing alternate spiritual world. If voices on your trip visions told you to do something would you listen to them? Would you treat them as real? Would you go out and do what they told you, believing they are some sort of superior entities doing some kind of divine work?

And who wants a third eye anyway? ...Who??!... What nonsense is this?

[Pandora]

Is there a Stockholm Syndrome for drug users? Because it looks like this is what is happening here.

[Silhouette]

Is there a Stockholm Syndrome for drug users? Because it looks like this is what is happening here.

By the way, I've only had LSD twice, not for many years, years apart and low doses too, and am not a drug user - though I enjoy alcohol a lot.

Am I imprisoned by them? That's a joke.

Just because I'm defending something you've had no prior experience of, doesn't mean my reasoning abilities are compromised - in fact it's me pointing out the logical fallacies in your arguments. The resistence you are encountering is because you are wrong, not because we're "compromised".

I'm not convinced of "drug induced delusions" as reality, I'm convinced that I experience and certain circumstances such as "taking drugs" or otherwise can tweak it - more or less, for better or worse, and what you experience under the effects of e.g. LSD is the same reality as always - as I said - only you are able to interpret it in different ways to the one you got used to. Again with the false dichotomies and black and white fallacies of "under drugs" versus "sober". It's all the same continuum of available information - I am aware of what is different from the normal interpretation under drugs just as I am in a dream. I have the ability to differentiate because I'm not schizophrenic. The dream experience exists, the drug induced experience exists, and the sober experience exists - but apparently you're only happy with learning from one of these three types of experience. Just because a dream isn't real, doesn't mean you can't learn from it. Voices in my trip visions? No. Again you have no idea what you're talking about.

And who wants a third eye anyway? ...Who??!... What nonsense is this?

Have you ever heard of a metaphor?

Why aren't you being honest and admitting you are arguing from ignorance? At least have some authenticity, please.

[Artimas]

Pandora,

"Considering you’re a psychedelic drug user, I’m not even sure what that means."

I don't use drugs to escape reality. That's your own misconception and projection of ideas and attachment of /your/ perception upon reality.

I use them to understand it and to form imagery, "picture of a thousand words", I use it to correlate a clearer path for and of self, for creativity. Maybe try rereading it a bunch until it registers or you understand.

“not sure where you’re going with this."

How are you not sure, it's obvious. If we align and are on the same page as a species, we can make /progress/, evolutionary progress and we can /choose/ how we wish to evolve, the path will be more clear for us because we will understand.. Bees work collectively and are subconscious aspects of nature, "innocent". We must understand how self works so we may make the best choices for the species and our environment.


"yes, we are restricted by our biology, but it’s the same biology that has allowed us to survive this song. Scrambling it with drugs will not improve on it."

So you're saying diversity and creativity have no role in evolution?
We don't live in the same world we evolved from, now we are aware of the /subconscious, archetypes, environment and a lot more than just that, including drugs. Generally, Pandora, when you mix substance A with substance B it causes a reaction, one that is good or bad objectively, this reaction from psychedelics increase awareness, this is a fact.

To expand perception and creativity is /good/ because it speeds up evolution by showing one the self if one is looking for such and to understand it. Not in all cases, some just do it for fun and not to learn or explore their subconscious mind. So in other words, coffee, sugar, fluoride, aluminum, mercury, alcohol and tobacco are all ok or good but psychedelics no. That's nonsense and you know it is.

This society has been poisoning us for so long with toxic chemicals, environment and minerals, that's where mental illnesses come from. Not psychedelics, psychedelics can pull illnesses out of genetics because it binds to receptors in the brain creating neural pathways for perception, that's where hppd comes from, at the same time since it attaches to mood receptors like serotonin and melatonin, it can pull psychotic disorders out of one's genetics and manifest it or make it worse than what it was already, so one must understand and be educated on this fact before use. It doesn't just cause psychotic disorder out of nothing, it actually can help with some of them, given the proper settings.

"trees react to stimulus, they do not feel pain. And we do not stop being physical because everything is still based on it. The physical may evolve to become more complex or compatmentalized (or specialized) for efficiency’s sake. But that also makes it more vulnerable to corruptions. The human body is quite an intricate mechanism. It has some back up redundancies but if one found a way to bypass them (as with specific drugs) then the whole system may be compromised"

And we react to stimuli as well, just in a different way ours is through, a heightened perception. This easily shows that consciousness is not merely created by the brain. This shows that nature and other life are subconscious but not fully conscious, a lot of them act out of instincts. Consciousness manifests out of the subconscious and yes, it is eternal because it is both nothing and since we are manifested and exist, it's also a potential everything, within the consistent universal laws, such as the law of conservation, gravity, etc. We aren't bypassing anything, what do you mean? We're literally just using them to expand perception. How can you say it doesn't exist when it does, it's literally right in reality, I stated the possible negatives but that's up to an individual to determine risk Vs reward, the reward can be great depending on environment and an intent to understand or correlate/breed a new idea. So a flower whimpering when it is cut is not an indication of pain?


"Aligned by all of us doing drugs?"

Aligned by everyone seeking to understand for the sake of understanding, aligned by everyone discovering self and being educated by having a perception that can think in multiple methods to seek what is consistent and objective along with what can be manifested as objective.

"Natural selection drives evolution, and it has formed our bodies and sense organs to function as they do now. If you want to take it into your own hands and do hallucinogens (which our body perceives as poison) you may now do so, but I believe this move is an error. Most drug users, even in our relatively comfortable modern worlds do not end well (I’m not even speaking about survival of drug users in the wild)."

That's what I just said, natural selection, trial and error, diversity of variables. Even cellular life is subconscious, we live in it's image, and through understanding, we can consciously create things out of it by understanding it's imagery. It doesn't always give you what you want, I'd hardly say guilt or "judgement" is what one wants. There is a reason prison is supposed to be isolation for a person and dull, to force them to reflect on what they have done, reflect using the subconscious to criticize the ego. It doesn't perceive it as poison when they are only slightly different than serotonin...



"the subconscious is not eternal, it is undifferentiated and unintelligent. When you deal with subconscious the GIGO rule applies: it will give you what you want, it will not give you “reality”."

You do realize you're in the reality of the subconscious already right? That's what reality is. It's a balance out of chaos and order, existence. Subconsciousness began with the first reaction of two or more variables, life came after chaos evolved to have order then chaos and order evolved into existence.

So do you understand that creations resemble their creators? If the subconscious was before consciousness then what does that tell you? The great thing is that we may use our consciousness which evolved out of subconsciousness to further explore ourself on a macro and micro level. Reality is it's dream, it's everything and nothing. We're merely branches of nature. This is literally what you linked me about Kant and creating reality/nature as well. I'm sorry I can't write in a way which you can understand me fully because that is all I really am trying to do, help you understand and see the whole image of things. It is the beginning of everything so how is it not eternal? When they write in religions and mythology they attribute "god" as the creator, which it is the subconscious mind. Ideas come from it along with other instinctual aspects to help us cope and better understand our role as both a living individual and as a collective species. In pagan religion the many gods were metaphorical archetypes, expression of man's inner psyche/instincts, which is what, Pandora? Subconsciousness.

Before one can live, do they not have to discover self? Do you believe self to be a byproduct of environment without understanding that we are byproducts of environment? To win chess, you must play the game and that's all I am doing, trying to help others the only way I can and that will actually help, education and understanding.


"the formation of ego is like the hardening of the skull in a growing child, or hardening of spikes in a baby porcupine, it is something that one is born with. The human ego develops naturally at about 3 years, it is not an indoctrination process"

Consciousness manifests and ego is created, this ego can be shapen by environment... Which is very clearly, indoctrination of ideology/culture. No it is not something one is simply born with, explain retardation and other crippling disadvantages that alter an ego or its ability/capability to and of functioning in environment or fully grasping of concepts, some of which are simple, consciously. Explain animals, it evolves and sometimes one doesn't or isn't evolved genetically(of which genetics are also shapen by environment) to be fully conscious.

"The laws of nature and survival have not changed. To breed instincts out will mean extinction."

No one is arguing that they have changed but man however, can change by understanding what is. Yeah and I'm telling you, if we don't choose to consciously evolve we will go extinct, which is literally what I am advocating and trying to explain to you. There are some instincts I believe will be and can be bred out by collective evolution like addiction or a self/species harming form of coping. Fight or flight is another one I believe we can understand further or if not breed out at least learn to manage better, anger and what not.



"Built in instincts, yes. But you’re romanticising subconscious too much, I think. Like I said, it cannot give you all the answers, at best it can give you want you really want, it can give you a confirmation (which could be a lie), hense GIGO. It is not an independent or intelligent entity. "

I don't think so, I am not expecting to get all the answers, answers and evolution is not measurable, it will continue so long as there is a state of duality that births wisdom and consciousness.

A nightmare isn't "what I wanted", guilt isn't wanted, criticism or judgement of self isn't wanted.. But it's needed, know why? Pursuit of evolving.

So you're saying we are not intelligent entities then. Intelligence manifested /after/ life and subconscious instinct so technically it does mean it is intelligent, as us and whatever other life forms there are similar to us.

"That sounds like a drug induced perception"

You just aren't comprehending what I am saying which I am not responsible for. You clearly don't understand how the ripple effect and evolution work out of a duality such as chaos and order and the subconscious manifestation of consciousness through experiencing (which the beginning of experience was instinctive).

"You ignore the error element. Reality perceived on drugs is not the same as reality perceived while sober. If you’re saying it is while already sober then I would have to say that you’re merging the two and already knee deep in the swamp."

You don't understand how psychedelics work.. Subconscious mind comes out to play, which means the visuals and perception have everything to do with environment and the persons subconscious mood at that time, which shows what? That one can control a trip or the experiencing of the drug. You are literally conscious of the subconscious when on a psychedelic but also at the same time conscious of reality, unless it's dmt then I usually close my eyes for the imagery because it is powerful.


"A drug induced conscious dream state (hallucination) is a corruption of perception of reality, which you call just another reality. So, I’m curious if you even recognize a general concept of corruption (or error in) of perception of reality? Because if you don’t then survival and all mechanisms associated with it would become functionally irrelevant. In fact, your own existence would become irrelevant as well."

So since we cannot see the wind is it not there? Since we can't see a germ does it mean illness doesn't exist? You do know this is why we need science right? To develop /tools/ to detect and measure reality because our senses are limited... Psychedelics improve perception and awareness, which means what? You can see things you normally wouldn't and can even will them into existence by subconscious feeling and environment. Psychedelics are a tool to be used out of nature. Like coffee and other drugs. My experience is just as real as normal reality because that's how perception works, objectively, no, it isn't going to appear to everyone unless they do the same substance and it reacts with their brain, but I promise you after one tries it and understands fully, our perception and understanding will be consistent with each other. That is normally how evolution works, you try something new and good results come from it.. It's a very basic concept Pandora. Good results have definitely came from psychedelics and drugs, especially art, music and ideas along with it being the evidence to a view of the bigger image of things.


"Well, all brainwashing has a good purpose, depending on who you ask. "

Ok and would you rather shape yourself or be shapen without knowing you have been?

"By taking drugs you’re not engaging reality, you’re engaging only your reality (i.e. fantasy). All you did is redefine your reality as more (or just as) real, and then you proceeded down the road of escapism."

There is more to "reality" than meets the normal human eye, literally, science has already proven this. I am engaging a reality of which environment and subconscious can manifest patterns and imagery, it's like a form of communication with nature, do you see what I am saying? How can something be real if everything is an illusion? So if I take a drug and add on to what is already an illusion, is it even more of an illusion than reality? Reality is not merely subject to our consciousness/ego, that's the point of evolution, to develop a sense of reality of which we can understand it all fully and continue expanding.... The ego is temporary and we recycle, so why be afraid of death? Because one is not fulfilled until they live as self. This has been proven on many people's death bed. The point is to live unique as self as to contribute to evolution using diverse expression and interacting with and in reality. There is nothing to escape either, I am appreciative of existence being what it is, a giant, fragmented and abundant variety of, contrast.


"think that you yourself really honestly believe that you can do all of that, especially while tripping, and maybe even more, but that’s the limit of it, and that’s the catch of the drug bait - full conviction, which makes it even more dangerous."

While tripping?
I can close my eyes and imagine, a trip or psychedelic makes it so I don't have to close my eyes, that's the only difference, heightened conscious perception.





"I would not want to form neural pathways on drugs. That’s self maiming and is wrong on so many levels"

Best not drink coffee or participate in reality then, because here, we evolve via drugs and chemical reactions and environment. Do you eat red meat, do you drink alcohol? Do you eat sugar? Then you're already "self maiming". Every choice you make and every choice that has been made that has crossed you, could be considered a "maim" then, with your logic.

"Then move to a desert. The living there is usually cheaper, and it’s less crowded. People actually do that. (In real life!)"

again, society keeps individuals entrapped through a monetary system and coercion of survival. It's as obvious as day time.

"He’s not advocating psychedelics, although he himself used them (he considers himself a part of drug culture), but he’s pointing to the lack of research (a point conceded to Silhuette) and their dangers which most people in drug culture choose to downplay or circumvent.
Perhaps more time is needed to see the greater fallout of this experiment, but I think it will eventually confirm my belief. There is a big drug culture fad going on right now and everybody’s jumping on the bandwagon as if it were the next best thing, but reality does not work this naively. If it’s too good to be true, too easy, or presented as a shortcut, it’s likely just another trap, and considering how it works on the brain, a very powerful one."


What you deem "too good to be true" doesn't mean anything to reality, it is what it is. Short cut? Why do you get to determine what is a "short cut"? You think us evolving for a million years to finally understand ourself and our ability to control our own evolution via environment and drugs/molecules is a fucking "shortcut"? You need to understand context better.

Maybe you should take a step back from your ego and see the bigger imagery at work here. Drug culture fad? We have been using drugs for a long time to evolve why do you think they're illegal and not "researched"? Oh I could tell you, maybe because, hmm.. It heightens awareness and government doesn't want every person aware.

No one said they aren't dangerous, so you're arguing a moot point, I already explained their dangers by manifestation of psychosis through /genetics/ if the disorder is already embedded in it. Yeah and there is also a reason only 100 people have watched his interview, because of his own "lack of research". It has been researched and well documented already, the dangers of psychedelics and drugs.

[Artimas]

Pandora,

"I don’t belive that drugs evolved us, although there is an argument for hallucination induced cave art based on sensory deprivation.
But hallucinogens are incompatible with survival in the wild. This would have been a quick error in natural selection trial."

To be honest Pandora, in reality, we consist of drugs and as life, a continuous reaction of drugs/substances, we evolve or devolve based on them, it doesn't matter what you or I "believe".

Hallucinogens are incompatible with survival in the wild? Explain that to animals, who literally are "the wild" that use drugs to get high. Dolphins, cats, deer, etc. We are the wild as well, are you trying to separate us from it when we are manifested from and in it?

"This is the trap of the drugs: answer is in the drugs and drugs are the answer. Reminds me of the ketamine addiction piece with James Kent"

I'm not trapped at all, I still follow the universal laws in my model of thinking and reaching conclusions and possibilities.

The answer isn't in the drugs but if you wish to have evidence of what I am describing to you for yourself yeah because I can't describe blue to you, I'm me for a reason. I had answers and understanding before I used psychedelics I already stated, can go through my posts and see for yourself too, the psychedelics are merely the visual/conscious evidence that can be broken down subjectively.

"Well, if death is an illusion, then so is life. What else do you have left? Are you alive? Do you exist, Altimas?"

Life and death are merely the same coin, both need each other to have a balance, I'm alive but I can choose to die, don't get a choice in being born though. Death in the sense of "ceasing to experience" isn't the case, only as what you are currently, the ego ceases. We are eternal on repeat. Law of conservation and understanding of environment proves that alone.

"Psychedelics are not your friends trying to guide you through evolution. That’s not what poisons do. You’d get more use out of eating an omelette."

You're right, it's a lot better than that. It's me guiding myself using my subconsciousness to communicate with my consciousness/ego. Except it isn't a poison when it is near identical in molecular structure to serotonin in our brain.



"thats already a disrespectful attitude towards that which has made you. "

I don't disrespect it, I advocate for it and advocate for conscious choice of evolving. It's a fact that sober, conscious perception is limited, not disrespect.


"Mundane and basic is not irrelevant."

You're right, it isn't, it is merely another contrast. When we do evolve collectively it will be that much sweeter. If, we evolve instead of going extinct from willful ignorance and devolution.


"In other words, drugs are the answer."

Not the answer, just the painting to view, a tool to use to connect and communicate with the self/subconscious for reflection. Like a mirror I've said.


"chemical brainwashing. I think the drug cartels are in full agreement with you here, except that one small recurrent detail...that all such roads inevitably lead back... to drugs. Coincidence?
The new alpha and the omega."

Chemical and environmental brainwashing takes place everyday, do you even watch society or understand it? We're literally being bred to be passive, docile and ignorant to make this society function for rich groups at the top who deem themselves more superior than the rest of life.

[Prismatic567]

"Not that.

I believe the brain is central but the whole experiences is related to the whole body and the inherent DNA [nature] plus experiences [nurture].

ALL humans has the potential for psychedelic experiences as embedded within the DNA, the brain and body.
This potential for psychedelic can be triggered by various means, i.e. drugs, hallucinogens, stress, mental illness and others elements & activity that activate the algorithm to generate the psychedelic experiences."

The brain is central in a sense, think a TV set or hardware, plugged into the wall it has power like we are plugged into reality(consciousness), we have power here, now cable or wifi, it receives and projects onto the screen, an image, think of the subconscious, now think of the remote to the TV, our ability to make choices and choose what we project.
The subconscious feeds our consciousness through imagery and being between two states we can correlate this imagery to express our spiritual or "psychedelic" experiencing through language or also use imagery and just project it, we get ideas from the subconscious, it's like a cookie jar of information, symbols, etc and once one becomes conscious of such, they can willfully search for answers to specific questions and attempt correlating or bringing the answer to the surface using self.
Our brain is complex because it is needed to be complex and it is /still/ evolving or devolving, it all depends upon what environment you choose and which archetype you want to try and project, attitude and consistency. A lot of people are devolving because they are the embodiment of death, we are unique to be unique for the sake of evolution, yet they all try and be like each other and don't let themselves out to live and express, that's death in a sense, a ceasing to experience as self.

You don't -have- to use psychedelics or study them to achieve these states of mind or thoughts/conclusions, they just are a mirror to show evidence.

I had mistakenly confined myself to the term 'psychedelic' drawn by the OP.
Pyschedelic experiences are triggered by psychedelics.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychedelic_experience

My intent was to use the wider Altered States of Consciousness [ASC].
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Altered_s ... sciousness

ASCs can be triggered by psychedelic drugs and many other triggers [religious, spiritual, secular, etc.] which I had listed before.

I agree there is the subconscious [90%] and the conscious [10%] parts of the mind and self. A human being is self-powered and self-referential. The subconscious with a weightage of 90% will heavily influence the mind and self while the conscious mind with a 10% weightage has little power to influence the self and mind. However the conscious mind with wise use can manage and module the forceful impulses of the subconscious mind.

I am into 'spirituality' involving meditations and breathing techniques which after a long while triggered DMT-liked altered states of consciousness intermittently which is not as drastic as those reported by the ones who took psychedelics.
One of the maxim of spirituality is, "Do overact and be attached to Altered States of Consciousness, no matter how pleasing or terrible they feel."
Bhagavad Gita: "Do not attached to the fruits of actions."
Of course if there are knowledge and wisdom to tap from ASC, then we take it.

What is critical within spirituality is the developments of algorithms [new or established] to higher level so that one can manage and modulate the impulses from the subconscious mind and conscious mind.
Note impulse controls;
The Problem: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impulse_control_disorder
One solution: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mindfulness

My main point with psychedelics re OP is;
It is possible the founders of religion could have experienced altered states of consciousness via psychedelics or other triggers.
I am not referring to those who later founded the organized religions but rather the founder who is associated with the religion whose experiences and name could have been exploited by the latter groups for political and control of the masses.

[Prismatic567]

Well the Buddha says not to use drugs at all, so how would that be founded on psychedelic experience?

I believe the story of a Gautama Siddharta giving up his right to a throne is a pure myth to convey the organized doctrines of Buddhism.

However if there was one real Prince Gautama Siddharta giving up his rights to a throne, it could be he had experienced some sort of altered states of consciousness due to a tumor or lesion or rare wirings in the brain which he was not aware of. It is beyond common sense for a Prince then 2500 years ago to give up his right to a throne just like that.

I disagree because you are conflating spirituality with psychedelic culture and also conflating taking a drug with culture. One can have the culture and understanding without the drug, that's what spirituality is, the drug is merely the proof for your own eyes.

Perhaps not within Buddhism, but it is very common with many sects within Hinduism where followers use drugs and hallucinogens. It also practice within other spiritual cultures.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_and_drugs

Personally, I think ALL humans should be given access to DMT limited to small doses [illegal where I am] but taken with a well developed stable psychological state of positivity and steady impulse control, then humanity will be able to accelerate more permanent peace of earth.

[Artimas]

"Not that.

I believe the brain is central but the whole experiences is related to the whole body and the inherent DNA [nature] plus experiences [nurture].

ALL humans has the potential for psychedelic experiences as embedded within the DNA, the brain and body.
This potential for psychedelic can be triggered by various means, i.e. drugs, hallucinogens, stress, mental illness and others elements & activity that activate the algorithm to generate the psychedelic experiences."

The brain is central in a sense, think a TV set or hardware, plugged into the wall it has power like we are plugged into reality(consciousness), we have power here, now cable or wifi, it receives and projects onto the screen, an image, think of the subconscious, now think of the remote to the TV, our ability to make choices and choose what we project.
The subconscious feeds our consciousness through imagery and being between two states we can correlate this imagery to express our spiritual or "psychedelic" experiencing through language or also use imagery and just project it, we get ideas from the subconscious, it's like a cookie jar of information, symbols, etc and once one becomes conscious of such, they can willfully search for answers to specific questions and attempt correlating or bringing the answer to the surface using self.
Our brain is complex because it is needed to be complex and it is /still/ evolving or devolving, it all depends upon what environment you choose and which archetype you want to try and project, attitude and consistency. A lot of people are devolving because they are the embodiment of death, we are unique to be unique for the sake of evolution, yet they all try and be like each other and don't let themselves out to live and express, that's death in a sense, a ceasing to experience as self.

You don't -have- to use psychedelics or study them to achieve these states of mind or thoughts/conclusions, they just are a mirror to show evidence.

I had mistakenly confined myself to the term 'psychedelic' drawn by the OP.
Pyschedelic experiences are triggered by psychedelics.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychedelic_experience

My intent was to use the wider Altered States of Consciousness [ASC].
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Altered_s ... sciousness

ASCs can be triggered by psychedelic drugs and many other triggers [religious, spiritual, secular, etc.] which I had listed before.

I agree there is the subconscious [90%] and the conscious [10%] parts of the mind and self. A human being is self-powered and self-referential. The subconscious with a weightage of 90% is heavily influenced the mind and self while the conscious mind with a 10% weightage has little power to influence the self and mind. However the conscious mind with wise use can manage and module the forceful impulses of the subconscious mind.

I am into 'spirituality' involving meditations and breathing techniques which after a long while triggered DMT-liked altered states of consciousness intermittently which is not as drastic as those reported by the ones who took psychedelics.
One of the maxim of spirituality is, "Do overact and be attached to Altered States of Consciousness, no matter how pleasing or terrible they feel."
Bhagavad Gita: "Do not attached to the fruits of actions."
Of course if there are knowledge and wisdom to tap from ASC, then we take it.

What is critical within spirituality is the developments of algorithms [new or established] to higher level so that one can manage and modulate the impulses from the subconscious mind and conscious mind.
Note impulse controls;
The Problem: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impulse_control_disorder
One solution: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mindfulness

My main point with psychedelics re OP is;
It is possible the founders of religion could have experienced altered states of consciousness via psychedelics or other triggers.
I am not referring to those who later founded the organized religions but rather the founder who is associated with the religion who experiences and name could have been exploited by the latter groups.

I believe it is highly possible if not a fact that drugs have evolved us, reactions chemically/molecular and environmentally (stress) which causes the body to secrete more molecules/reactions and causes faster aging/death if in extremes.

The issue with today is that most people aren't 90% subconscious. they're 90% ego and 10% consciousness, which makes it difficult to help them or guide them to an understanding so that we may cease this mess of a species, we're disorganized collectively and then people wonder how "God" abandoned us, we abandoned ourselves for a technological world, a devolution, comforts over change, exploration and fast paced evolution.

Even if past ancients never took a psychedelic, the altered state of consciousness or if I understand correctly, I refer to it as "the zone" a clearer time of thinking, a conscious meditative state in a sense. Yes, you see.. it is like that with psychedelics too, to accept it even if it is bad because there is much to learn in the bad, mistakes, pain, etc.. We see lessons, errors, it's a criticism of one's ego by self. People refer to this as a "bad trip, ego death" in psychedelic culture, but a bad trip doesn't truly exist if the message is heard and understood fully, it is insightful.

[Artimas]

Well the Buddha says not to use drugs at all, so how would that be founded on psychedelic experience?

I believe the story of a Gautama Siddharta giving up his right to a throne is a pure myth to convey the organized doctrines of Buddhism.

However if there was one real Prince Gautama Siddharta giving up his rights to a throne, it could be he had experienced some sort of altered states of consciousness due to a tumor or lesion or rare wirings in the brain which he was not aware of. It is beyond common sense for a Prince then 2500 years ago to give up his right to a throne just like that.

I disagree because you are conflating spirituality with psychedelic culture and also conflating taking a drug with culture. One can have the culture and understanding without the drug, that's what spirituality is, the drug is merely the proof for your own eyes.

Perhaps not within Buddhism, but it is very common with many sects within Hinduism where followers use drugs and hallucinogens. It also practice within other spiritual cultures.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_and_drugs

Well it isn't beyond common sense though because it is a state of mind to be achieved when one may understand what is and ones effect on environment. Meditation and reflection on self can lead to a lot of answers, especially if one is given an environment of struggle or if one may empathize and see an environment of struggle to relate to.

Yeah that's true, pagans used psychedelics too and their gods were archetypes of themselves, with added on exaggerations, expression of psyche.

[Prismatic567]

The issue with today is that most people aren't 90% subconscious. they're 90% ego and 10% consciousness, which makes it difficult to help them or guide them to an understanding so that we may cease this mess of a species, we're disorganized collectively and then people wonder how "God" abandoned us, we abandoned ourselves for a technological world, a devolution, comforts over change, exploration and fast paced evolution.

I am viewing it from another perspective.

Our instinctual drives and impulses are pulsating from the subconscious mind [90%] which is very hard for the conscious mind to control.
Note how hard it is for many with lack of impulse control to control the various addictions.
There are many obese who eat themselves to death even when they know the fact they will die from obesity.

It is worst when this active unmodulated instincts are combined with an overactive ego "I" that generates arrogance, narcissism, grandeur, psychopathy, and the likes.

The point is the subconscious will always be a 90% force via evolution and the conscious only 10%. The question is how we can use the best of our conscious reason to modulate the terrible forces of the subconscious [survival, sex, hunger, water, breathing, fight, flight, aggression, etc.]. It is like the need to build smart dams to control the forces of the big rivers towards good uses.

[Prismatic567]

Personally, I think ALL humans should be given access to DMT [or similar] limited to small doses [illegal where I am] but taken with a well developed stable psychological state of positivity and steady impulse control, then humanity will be able to accelerate more permanent peace of earth.

[Artimas]

The issue with today is that most people aren't 90% subconscious. they're 90% ego and 10% consciousness, which makes it difficult to help them or guide them to an understanding so that we may cease this mess of a species, we're disorganized collectively and then people wonder how "God" abandoned us, we abandoned ourselves for a technological world, a devolution, comforts over change, exploration and fast paced evolution.

I am viewing it from another perspective.

Our instinctual drives and impulses are pulsating from the subconscious mind [90%] which is very hard for the conscious mind to control.
Note how hard it is for many with lack of impulse control to control the various addictions.
There are many obese who eat themselves to death even when they know the fact they will die from obesity.

It is worst when this active unmodulated instincts are combined with an overactive ego "I" that generates arrogance, narcissism, grandeur, psychopathy, and the likes.

The point is the subconscious will always be a 90% force via evolution and the conscious only 10%. The question is how we can use the best of our conscious reason to modulate the terrible forces of the subconscious [survival, sex, hunger, water, breathing, fight, flight, aggression, etc.]. It is like the need to build smart dams to control the forces of the big rivers towards good uses.

I actually do agree with that, the subconscious is 90% because it's also what reality/nature is manifested from.

Well I believe we may attain more consciousness through understanding and seeking change and diversity (evolving), since consciousness did evolve out of subconsciousness, I feel as if there are levels to consciousness and a certain state of mind can lead us further up instead of down because our ideas, our choices, our language, really matters, to both extremes and lows in and of environment/reality.

[Artimas]

Personally, I think ALL humans should be given access to DMT [or similar] limited to small doses [illegal where I am] but taken with a well developed stable psychological state of positivity and steady impulse control, then humanity will be able to accelerate more permanent peace of earth.

I think the war on drugs should end and we invest in opening real education institutions, an environment that guides individuals to the process of how to think and stay educated, stoicism, education on the self and the understanding of what is necessary to understand in order to reach the state of mind needed to be balanced in life. Must be educated on contrast as well. I think we should open rehabilitation centers that provides real education of self and coping with existential crisis. I also think we should have psychedelic culture environment, a place to seek self and to reflect through means of molecular altering/drugs, with a positive but enlightening guide. Like in LOTR, Gandalf with Bilbo how he exclaims "do not take me for some conjurer of cheap tricks!" and the room went dark and intimidating, but then turns soft and it helps Bilbo understand that Gandalf could have already hurt him if he wanted too but it was never Gandalfs intention and then that is what shows him the contrast and leads him to understand that Gandalf is his friend, truly.

[Artimas]

Also since the third eye was brought up or pineal gland, I thought I'd bring up sun gazing as an opposite to dark/deprivation of consciousness or conscious meditation.

Since we may reflect in the dark, we may gather energy and information out of light from the sun, absorb the benefits, possibly monatomic gold or single active-atom molecules, balance though between both.

[Prismatic567]

Personally, I think ALL humans should be given access to DMT [or similar] limited to small doses [illegal where I am] but taken with a well developed stable psychological state of positivity and steady impulse control, then humanity will be able to accelerate more permanent peace of earth.

I think the war on drugs should end and we invest in opening real education instutions, an environment that guides individuals to the process of how to think and stay educated, stoicism, education on the self and the understanding of what is necessary to understand in order to reach the state of mind needed to be balanced in life. Must be educated on contrast as well. I think we should open rehabilitation centers that provides real education of self and coping with existential crisis. I also think we should have psychedelic culture environment, a place to seek self and to reflect through means of molecular altering/drugs, with a positive but enlightening guide. Like in LOTR, Gandalf with Bilbo how we exclaims "do not take me for some conjurer of cheap tricks!" and the room went dark and intimidating, but then turns soft and it helps Bilbo understand that Gandalf could have already hurt him if he wanted too but it was never Gandalfs intention and then that is what shows him the contrast and leads him to understand that Gandalf is his friend, truly.

I believe in the present circumstance I would agree to the use of certain acceptable psychedelics, e.g. ayahuasca, etc. under serious controlled environment to be open to ALL.

However we can wean off the above when we have greater knowledge of the brain, the subconscious mind and our ability to have holistic fool proof enhancements to our brain performance.

Note the advancement of the Human Connectome Project
http://www.humanconnectomeproject.org/
to track every neural connections within the brain to its effects.
Then [in 50, 100 or 150 years time] we will be able to train and develop the human brain to its optimal best towards the overall good of humanity.

[Prismatic567]

Also since the third eye was brought up or pineal gland, I thought I'd bring up sun gazing as an opposite to dark/deprivation of consciousness or conscious meditation.

Since we may reflect in the dark, we may gather energy and information out of light from the sun, absorb the benefits, possibly monatomic gold or single active-atom molecules, balance though between both.

Sun gazing is too dangerous??
Re meditation, I have read of people starring into light bulbs and candles which can damage the retina.

There are meditations that focus on the various bright lights emerging within the mind.

Once we have mapped the Human Connectome, we will be able to understand the role of the Pineal Gland. I am not into that at present till I have objective facts about it.

However research has show if certain parts of the temporal lobe is activated by various means, it does produce altered state consciousness in many.

[Artimas]

Also since the third eye was brought up or pineal gland, I thought I'd bring up sun gazing as an opposite to dark/deprivation of consciousness or conscious meditation.

Since we may reflect in the dark, we may gather energy and information out of light from the sun, absorb the benefits, possibly monatomic gold or single active-atom molecules, balance though between both.

Sun gazing is too dangerous??
Re meditation, I have read of people starring into light bulbs and candles which can damage the retina.

There are meditations that focus on the various bright lights emerging within the mind.

Once we have mapped the Human Connectome, we will be able to understand the role of the Pineal Gland. I am not into that at present till I have objective facts about it.

However research has show if certain parts of the temporal lobe is activated by various means, it does produce altered state consciousness in many.

Have you heard of the law of attraction and monatomic elements? I can upload some pictures for you if you haven't heard of the elements.

[Artimas]

Personally, I think ALL humans should be given access to DMT [or similar] limited to small doses [illegal where I am] but taken with a well developed stable psychological state of positivity and steady impulse control, then humanity will be able to accelerate more permanent peace of earth.

I think the war on drugs should end and we invest in opening real education instutions, an environment that guides individuals to the process of how to think and stay educated, stoicism, education on the self and the understanding of what is necessary to understand in order to reach the state of mind needed to be balanced in life. Must be educated on contrast as well. I think we should open rehabilitation centers that provides real education of self and coping with existential crisis. I also think we should have psychedelic culture environment, a place to seek self and to reflect through means of molecular altering/drugs, with a positive but enlightening guide. Like in LOTR, Gandalf with Bilbo how we exclaims "do not take me for some conjurer of cheap tricks!" and the room went dark and intimidating, but then turns soft and it helps Bilbo understand that Gandalf could have already hurt him if he wanted too but it was never Gandalfs intention and then that is what shows him the contrast and leads him to understand that Gandalf is his friend, truly.

I believe in the present circumstance I would agree to the use of certain acceptable psychedelics, e.g. ayahuasca, etc. under serious controlled environment to be open to ALL.

However we can wean off the above when we have greater knowledge of the brain, the subconscious mind and our ability to have holistic fool proof enhancements to our brain performance.

Note the advancement of the Human Connectome Project
http://www.humanconnectomeproject.org/
to track every neural connections within the brain to its effects.
Then [in 50, 100 or 150 years time] we will be able to train and develop the human brain to its optimal best towards the overall good of humanity.

To evolve the brain is to choose what environment one is in and the chemicals/sustenance one uses to survive and live for the next day, by us consuming more molecules and substances we either develop a resistance if they're "toxic" but beneficial, we can choose low dosing and breed resistances into our collective species so we may expand further in being able to sense and perceive by consciously creating new substances or reactions.

This is how the dog was bred, we bred out a lot of their primitive wolf-like instincts and features, by substances, genetics and length of time for change to occur and this is a cycle of consciousness, we could breed dogs and mammals to be almost as conscious as us but they do not have hands and limbs to craft tools so that is why they haven't naturally already, we do though which means if we over time and breeding, introduce substances that are toxic or bad to one it may become beneficial and perceived as good over a possibly long period of time due to building a bodily tolerance/resistance "stress breeding the strong, trial and error, selective breeding and chemical inducing" Same thing applies to us, it's us acting as nature/god because we are it.

The issue is getting others to understand and help them to this state of mind or perception. "The bigger image".