The purpose of all life

[Mr Reasonable]

Sorry, Reasonable, didn't mean to p.o.-end You. Besides I take You for a man who is disconcerting to dubious formalities.

If You need to figure this out, excuse, my bad.

No need for any apology, but could you rephrase this?

[Meno_]

Sorry, Reasonable, didn't mean to p.o.-end You. Besides I take You for a man who is disconcerting to dubious formalities.

If You need to figure this out, excuse, my bad.

No need for any apology, but could you rephrase this?

Perhaps this is an unanswered question at least until the approaching dawn.

[Meno_]

Morning here in Low Angeles nd I may try rephrasing.

I thought Reasonable, that Your comments here may have been too suddenly cut off by the Something Instead Forum. So I thought that I should note that , as a formal gesture, so as not to sow any intention on my part to evaluate the. relative level of significance of this forum with. the other one .one..

That is all, and I thought that such comment is deserved

Thanks for bearing with me.

[Ecmandu]

Mr. Reasonable,

I know how to prove the every heterosexual sex encounter is sending out the subliminal message that "no means yes". I can prove youre a rapist.

So when you come at me with your "reality", rather than proofs through contradiction, what your really asking me is to be the best you that I can be. Which is a consent violator.

It's actually quite serious what you maintain as reality that I'm too afraid to accept.

There are 4 techniques to resolve the issue in the best sense:

Philosophic zombie realities
Marionette philosophic zombie realities
Hallucinating reality from eternal forms
Hyperdimensional mirror realities

Nobody in their right mind would send the subliminal message the the cosmos that no means yes.

You are young or mentally handicapped.

Everything I just said, I can prove.

[surreptitious75]

There are 4 techniques to resolve the issue in the best sense :

Philosophic zombie realities
Marionette philosophic zombie realities
Hallucinating reality from eternal forms
Hyperdimensional mirror realities

Keep on repeating the word salad without actually explaining how any of these are possible
They are all hypothetical solutions that have never been tested and so are entirely useless

The only solution that will ultimately work is the complete extinction of the human race
It will be the end of all suffering and unlike any of your solutions will definitely happen

[Mr Reasonable]

Ecmandu, if you can prove I'm a rapist, then you can prove unicorns are real. If you believe that you've proving things, even though they are false, then you should consider the method that you're using to concoct such proofs.

I'd love to see it. Maybe I can help you. Have at it man. Prove I'm a rapist.

[Mr Reasonable]

Also I'm neither young nor mentally handicapped. I'll be 40 in August, and I have a clean bill of health both mental and otherwise.

But, I do thank you for keeping the ad homs fresh. Attack the argument if you can. I mean...that's kind of the whole idea of a debate. o far, you've just mentioned that you can prove some things without actually proving them and you've made a handful of personal attacks.

I'm a little disappointed. Give me something better.

[Ecmandu]

Also I'm neither young nor mentally handicapped. I'll be 40 in August, and I have a clean bill of health both mental and otherwise.

But, I do thank you for keeping the ad homs fresh. Attack the argument if you can. I mean...that's kind of the whole idea of a debate. o far, you've just mentioned that you can prove some things without actually proving them and you've made a handful of personal attacks.

I'm a little disappointed. Give me something better.

In a sex dimorphic species where one sex is larger and stronger and more threatening than the other sex, women will
Show more involuntary discomfort being approach in a sexually implicating way than men will.
This sends the subliminal message that there's a "no" to all first approaches or escalations towards women.

When a man engages with a woman to send a sexual signal, he has decided he doesn't care about the "no"

If she accepts his advance, the entire relationship becomes a "no means yes" relationship.

That's just a summary. Fact of the matter is, every heterosexual relationship on earth and through history is and has been of this type.

We take this subliminal message out on the environment and each other to maintain sexual choice.

Think of getting slightly molested when you are two years old... 12 years later you will retroactively call it sexual assault or molestation.

In a very similar way, men and women think their relationships are consensual when it easy to demonstrate that it is not so

[Ecmandu]

Also I'm neither young nor mentally handicapped. I'll be 40 in August, and I have a clean bill of health both mental and otherwise.

But, I do thank you for keeping the ad homs fresh. Attack the argument if you can. I mean...that's kind of the whole idea of a debate. o far, you've just mentioned that you can prove some things without actually proving them and you've made a handful of personal attacks.

I'm a little disappointed. Give me something better.

In a sex dimorphic species where one sex is larger and stronger and more threatening than the other sex, women will
Show more involuntary discomfort being approach in a sexually implicating way than men will.
This sends the subliminal message that there's a "no" to all first approaches or escalations towards women.

When a man engages with a woman to send a sexual signal, he has decided he doesn't care about the "no"

If she accepts his advance, the entire relationship becomes a "no means yes" relationship.

That's just a summary. Fact of the matter is, every heterosexual relationship on earth and through history is and has been of this type.

We take this subliminal message out on the environment and each other to maintain sexual choice.

Think of getting slightly molested when you are two years old... 12 years later you will retroactively call it sexual assault or molestation.

In a very similar way, men and women think their relationships are consensual when it easy to demonstrate that it is not so

It's also not just that easy.

A male has to stop using the three abuses, has to explain the 5 stages of a sex dimorphic species -

And for clarity the 5 heartbreaks of relationship.

Any male to female relationship absent this is manufactured consent rape.

[Ecmandu]

And it's even harder than the above post...

If you just casually put out the the universe that you want a fantastic woman / women.

Technically, you approach escalated the species, which means you'll have to wait for a woman more powerful than all men combined (unless you go through the 5 stages of a sex dimorphic species)

Women putting it out to the cosmos can ask that they approach their ideal, but they cannot ask for him to approach her.

There are subsections that delve further into this.

[Mr Reasonable]

You said that the initial display of involuntary discomfort is a result of men being bigger and stronger as though it's some kind of instinct. So the show of discomfort isn't voluntary, so it means no more than someone blinking their eyes or breathing. So it's not because they really mean to say no. So it doesn't seem that by your own words even that this amounts to a denial of consent.

[Ecmandu]

You said that the initial display of involuntary discomfort is a result of men being bigger and stronger as though it's some kind of instinct. So the show of discomfort isn't voluntary, so it means no more than someone blinking their eyes or breathing. So it's not because they really mean to say no. So it doesn't seem that by your own words even that this amounts to a denial of consent.

It's reactive because of the increased relative threat, such as blinking when a bug flies near your eye.

[Mr Reasonable]

Yeah but since not every instance of an eye blink is a result of a bug flying near your eye, then maybe not every instance of an involuntary show of discomfort is an instance of an actual threat.

[Ecmandu]

Yeah but since not every instance of an eye blink is a result of a bug flying near your eye, then maybe not every instance of an involuntary show of discomfort is an instance of an actual threat.

Then you get into the territory of mind reading games and the fantasy that you're the exception.

I'm quite certain, except myself, that every other man will believe in that to justify this form of rape as being consensual. Hell! Even the rapists we are accustomed to thinking of as rapists believe that's what the woman wants. You don't think the mind is crafty enough with a more subtle form, to reach similar conclusions and ideations with "every" man.

Guys who laugh and sarcastically say that assholes get the most women, absolutely positive that they are the exception?

Then the challenge is about who reads body language best. With sex dimorphism, body language is irrelevant because the actual percentage is too high for us to play the "but I'm the special man who knows she wants it"

Trust me when I say this:

Everything every man before me has done to get consensual sex, I would intentionally do to rape a woman, and I have, as my mind grew wiser, I had to admit much to my horror that I wasn't an exception.

I know what it's like to face the chasm of the reality that we're in when it contradicts our beliefs about ourselves and our global culture.

[Mr Reasonable]

But aren't you reading the minds of all the females?

[Ecmandu]

But aren't you reading the minds of all the females?

There have been some empirical studies, repeated many times now, that women are broadly more averse to approaches implying sexuality than men are, which simply prove the obvious.

[Mr Reasonable]

Well, when someone just cites a study without giving the reasoning, it makes me imagine a bunch of idiot grad students working on a project while drinking red bull late into the night listening to music and having a good old time.

I'd love to break down the study you're citing as an appeal to authority. It would be a lot more fun than having someone expect me to just make radical logical leaps based on a citation of a random study.

Even if the whole idea that you've mentioned turns out to be demonstrably true....that being the idea that women don't like being hit on as much as men do. It's still a massive leap to go from that to something like, "all sex is rape".

Wouldn't you think?

[MagsJ]

There have been some empirical studies, repeated many times now, that women are broadly more averse to approaches implying sexuality than men are, which simply prove the obvious.

So what?

[Ecmandu]

Well, when someone just cites a study without giving the reasoning, it makes me imagine a bunch of idiot grad students working on a project while drinking red bull late into the night listening to music and having a good old time.

I'd love to break down the study you're citing as an appeal to authority. It would be a lot more fun than having someone expect me to just make radical logical leaps based on a citation of a random study.

Even if the whole idea that you've mentioned turns out to be demonstrably true....that being the idea that women don't like being hit on as much as men do. It's still a massive leap to go from that to something like, "all sex is rape".

Wouldn't you think?

That's not the subliminal message being sent out.

Say someone wears a shirt that says you'd be better off dead. They mean to harm you or are exhorting you to harm yourself. The third option, which you are defending, is that the person made the t-shirt who grew up speaking English, doesn't know what it meant or means.

Here's a study for you:

https://interpersona.psychopen.eu/article/view/121/html

Notice in the study that men don't list fear of danger as a reason for rejection, while women do.

[Mr Reasonable]

Dude your study was conducted by women in a hyper liberal, as in, politically skewed environment. A university in Hawaii? Come on man. Ask the general public. Not kids who have been recently indoctrinated to a certain set of ideals.

[Ecmandu]

Dude your study was conducted by women in a hyper liberal, as in, politically skewed environment. A university in Hawaii? Come on man. Ask the general public. Not kids who have been recently indoctrinated to a certain set of ideals.

There are 2 studies referenced in that study, the one they described earlier is a 1989 study that is the most famous and cited sex, social science / evolutionary psychology study known.

Your hand waving doesn't change the facts.

Do you really think sex dimorphism is a liberal feminist agenda? NO!

The hyper liberal feminist agenda is yours and MagsJ attempt to debate my point.

That agenda states that at a minimum, women are at least as good if not better than men at everything, including threat levels and physical strength.

[Mr Reasonable]

I'm not talking about politics. You are. And you're citing a 30 year old study now. 30 year old studies of social norms are dated. You've not established it as fact that all sex is rape.

You take a weird study, with a sample size smaller than the general population, in a place where political indoctrination occurs at a rate higher than in the general population, from 30 years ago, about social norms and use it to make the jump from some data points to the declaration that all sex is rape.

I would say that it might be better to present your findings to the general population and use the laugh test. Most people would laugh at this whole conversation.

[Ecmandu]

I'm not talking about politics. You are. And you're citing a 30 year old study now. 30 year old studies of social norms are dated. You've not established it as fact that all sex is rape.

You take a weird study, with a sample size smaller than the general population, in a place where political indoctrination occurs at a rate higher than in the general population, from 30 years ago, about social norms and use it to make the jump from some data points to the declaration that all sex is rape.

I would say that it might be better to present your findings to the general population and use the laugh test. Most people would laugh at this whole conversation.

I'm basically pointing at a car, and stating this car is here. The necessary logic of dimorphic aversion sending a "no" message for all first approaches.

You just say I'm wrong in every way.

You ask me to cite

I give you two studies

You call me laughable

I'm using pristine evidentiary logic.

[Mr Reasonable]

I mean I'm generally averse to eating vegetables. But sometimes someone really knows how to cook those carrots and that asparagus and so I eat them happily. So I'm not raped every time I eat a vegetable.

[Mr Reasonable]

Evidence is really hard for a lot of people to understand. Important to note, it that it rarely makes certain that which is is evidence of. Less likely is that it makes something both certain and universally true. This is actually really easy. Disproving a claim of universal truth...I mean, all sex is rape. Come on man. If you believe that then there's something about evidence and logic or about your data that you're failing to comprehend.