Expulsion

[WendyDarling]

Would Truth cause entropy? Or would the lack of Truth cause entropy in our closed system?

[James S Saint]

Would Truth cause entropy? Or would the lack of Truth cause entropy in our closed system?

I don't know what you mean by "would truth cause...". Truth is a language describing reality. Would knowing the truth cause entropy? That would depend upon which parts you knew and your situation. You can't know all of it.

[WendyDarling]

Would Truth cause entropy? Or would the lack of Truth cause entropy in our closed system?

I don't know what you mean by "would truth cause...". Truth is a language describing reality. Would knowing the truth cause entropy? That would depend upon which parts you knew and your situation. You can't know all of it.

How can you not know all of it? Wouldn't eternity give you the "time" to know it all? What if all sentient life knew all Truth, would there be enough reason to continue living indefinitely or would all efforts be directed towards escaping eternity?

[encode_decode]

WendyDarling

Unfortunately I know very little about the US, mainly because I am not from the US. I will be moving there next year so maybe I will learn something about the US.

I do however understand quite a bit about communication, so I have subscribed to this thread and hope to offer some significant input.

[WendyDarling]

Well my communication skills are rough around the edges, but if you have suggestions for my refinement, I'm all eyes.

[encode_decode]

WendyDarling

I think "we" are constantly refining each other; by "we", I mean everyone we come into contact with, on, and hopefully, off, the forum.

Well my communication skills are rough around the edges, but if you have suggestions for my refinement, I'm all eyes.

When we encounter something that sounds terrible we experience what I call rational mismatch - anyhow. I will be thinking about this . . .

Not really significant input to the thread but very worthwhile considering:

From James' signature:
Devil's Motto: Make it look good, safe, innocent, and wise.. until it is too late to choose otherwise.

From My two cents in Gloominary's thread - Modern Technology:
I worked out a long time ago that to beat your adversary you have to know your adversary . . .
. . . and be able to think like your adversary when or if the need arises.

From what James posted earlier in this thread and a few of my thoughts thrown in:

What I would suggest is to learn how to have a durable impact upon their perception of hopes and threats, preferably in a positive direction. Communication is influence. When there is no communication, there is no influence. But communication is a competition. Everyone competes to have the most influence in the direction that they individually favor. A durable communication will alter the ability of future interference. I would suggest to cast a spell of hope toward diverting their communication toward more hopeful endeavors, one of which would be to maintain that diversion.

To do this you have to know the people that you want to impact. Usually this starts out by listening to them - difficult when they are talking rubbish I know but nonetheless people like to be listened to. By getting them onside you are then able to exercise influence.

People do what they do because they are being dominated by too much chaos and extortion. Their Perception of Hopes and Threats are being scrambled and manipulated. If you want to help, you have to work against such obfuscation and coercion.

Exactly. People are lost sheep as you know and common sense is dead. However while one person is able to exercise good judgement then we still have hope.

How do you do that(work against such obfuscation and coercion), you ask ... Clarify, Verify, Instill, and Reinforce the Perception of Hopes and Threats unto Anentropic Harmony ... especially in your communicating. Such is the essence and key of positive influence.

So true. I would also say that people need to know that you care. Not so easy to share the warmth these days, but do not lose hope - you have to stand by what you believe in, unless you know that something better has come along. Just the same:

Never give up!

[WendyDarling]

I would also say that people need to know that you care.

How do you show the care for a population as opposed to the more intimate care shown to one person?

From My two cents in Gloominary's thread - Modern Technology:
I worked out a long time ago that to beat your adversary you have to know your adversary . . .
. . . and be able to think like your adversary when or if the need arises.

Why does this concept blow my mind? Is it so far removed from my mode of operation that even the thought of it overwhelms me? Or is it more that I'm not ready to apply myself...in strategy games against computer generated opponents? I know that their mode of operation is primarily, efficiency, but I rebel against their mode of operation and try to defeat them on my own terms only to get smacked down, with every tactic I try. Yes, sacrifice was not programmed into those opponents, so there is a bit of a leg up, but it always boils down to the damn efficiency of my maneuvers.

[encode_decode]

WendyDarling

I know some of the things I write seem peculiar . . .

I would also say that people need to know that you care.

How do you show the care for a population as opposed to the more intimate care shown to one person?

Good question . . . easier than you think actually . . . I will get back to you on this . . . I will work on something more in tune with your good self.

From My two cents in Gloominary's thread - Modern Technology:
I worked out a long time ago that to beat your adversary you have to know your adversary . . .
. . . and be able to think like your adversary when or if the need arises.

Why does this concept blow my mind? Is it so far removed from my mode of operation that even the thought of it overwhelms me?

It probably blows your mind because you are not a cunning person - I like that - and you should keep it far removed from your MO.
So why did I write it? The trick is to mirror your adversary - ever looked in a mirror and wonder why things appear backwards? If they are bad then you are good.

I believe a little bit of patience is in order though . . . another thing I like from James' signature: The Wise gather together to help one another in EVERY aspect of living. Wisdom contains good judgement as far as I am concerned. I am happy to help with things I find agreeable - my reach extends beyond this forum.

[WendyDarling]

I will work on something more in tune with your good self.

What? I have a bad self?

Being cunning would mean walking on the darkside where one has to be crafty to accomplish crimes against nature. Simple goodness always beats cunning in the end or is that just my positive, wishful thinking?

I am happy to help with things I find agreeable - my reach extends beyond this forum.

That was an awesomely intriguing sentence to write. Much thanks even for what you implied in my direction. Now, what specifically does it mean?

[encode_decode]

WendyDarling

Well you seem like a good person to me - hopefully phyllo does not mind me saying that

I will work on something more in tune with your good self.

What? I have a bad self?

You heard . . . lol, I am kidding . . . we have all done things that could be considered messed up to others.
I think your heart is good. So, no to you having a bad self.

Being cunning would mean walking on the darkside where one has to be crafty to accomplish crimes against nature. Simple goodness always beats cunning in the end or is that just my positive, wishful thinking?

No it is not your wishful thinking - I do not care what anyone has to say about this. Good beats evil - simple.

I am happy to help with things I find agreeable - my reach extends beyond this forum.

That was an awesomely intriguing sentence to write. Much thanks even for what you implied in my direction. Now, what specifically does it mean?

Lol . . . yeah, I think you got the point.

[WendyDarling]

Well you seem like a good person to me - hopefully phyllo does not mind me saying that

Are you his brother or something? Geez, I have a reputation...really? What's that gossip been saying about our differences of opinion?

You are not bad yourself, but every once in awhile I wonder if you are an AI bot. No offense meant, truly, but crazy thoughts cross my mind sometimes and I can't find my "off" switch.

Thanks again Aaron.

[encode_decode]

You are welcome WendyDarling.

Nah - I aint no bot.

The story of AI makes me laugh - I do not believe I ever stated my position on that . . . Hmm.

Maybe somebody can prove me wrong by twisting my words on me . . . who knows.

I was reading the rules of the philosophy forum and came across this: Sock Puppet Accounts.

That makes me wonder.

[WendyDarling]

You are welcome WendyDarling.

Nah - I aint no bot.

The story of AI makes me laugh - I do not believe I ever stated my position on that . . . Hmm.What is your job first and then your position on AI (or am I being too nosy)?

Maybe somebody can prove me wrong by twisting my words on me . . . who knows.

I was reading the rules of the philosophy forum and came across this: Sock Puppet Accounts.I hate sock puppets for they are an unsavory con.

That makes me wonder.Why would it make you wonder? Wonder about what?

[encode_decode]

I am a software engineer. I work on compilers, interpreters and operating systems. I am against what is called AGI. Simple AI is kind of useful so I am on the fence about that. MI is the one that worries me the most.

I wonder why people need to use sock puppets.

[WendyDarling]

I am a software engineer. I work on compilers, interpreters and operating systems. I am against what is called AGI. Simple AI is kind of useful so I am on the fence about that. MI is the one that worries me the most.

I wonder why people need to use sock puppets.

Yes, why?

Had to look up AGI: adjusted gross income or (my favorite) American Gunsmithing Institute. What are AGI and MI?

[encode_decode]

WendyDarling

I am a software engineer. I work on compilers, interpreters and operating systems. I am against what is called AGI. Simple AI is kind of useful so I am on the fence about that. MI is the one that worries me the most.

I wonder why people need to use sock puppets.

Yes, why?

Had to look up AGI: adjusted gross income or (my favorite) American Gunsmithing Institute. What are AGI and MI?

Artificial general intelligence (AGI) - also known as strong artificial intelligence.

MI - a reasonably new technology - Machine Intelligence - a model of the Neo Cortex.

When I said simple AI - I was referring to weak AI - the non-sentient kind.

[WendyDarling]

Where's the tipping point between weak and strong AI? What is the line of code that changes everything?

[encode_decode]

Where's the tipping point between weak and strong AI? What is the line of code that changes everything?

True weak AI is dedicated to a single task. That makes it a mindless automaton. I do not want to derail your thread.

[WendyDarling]

Yes, we have strayed. I'll PM any further questions.

[encode_decode]

WendyDarling

No one has been expelled from Congress since 1862 and those were mostly due to supporting confederate rebellion.

There is no precedent for outside parties (outside the congress) to accuse certain Senators and House of Representatives members of criminal activities and demand an expulsion vote for the accused. I believe it should be the citizens who expel these traitors from office.

If I may ask . . . who was it that was expelled in 1862? I can read up on it if I know who it is.

[WendyDarling]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Expulsion_from_the_United_States_Congress

The great majority of those expelled — 17 members — were removed from office for their support of the Confederacy in the immediate aftermath of secession. In 1861, after the Civil War had broken out, 11 Senators (including former Vice President and Kentucky Senator John C. Breckinridge) and three Representatives were expelled for supporting the Confederacy. In 1862, three more Representatives were expelled for supporting the Confederate States (John Bullock Clark and John William Reid of Missouri as well as Henry Cornelius Burnett of Kentucky).

There have only been three other expulsions. In 1797, Senator William Blount of Tennessee was expelled for treason, with charges centering on a plan to incite the Creek and Cherokee to aid the British in conquering the Spanish territory of West Florida. Blount remains the only Senator to be expelled for a reason other than supporting the Confederacy.

In 1980 Representative Michael Myers of Pennsylvania was expelled for bribes in connection with the Abscam scandal. In 2002, Representative Jim Traficant of Ohio was expelled after he was convicted on numerous counts of bribery, racketeering, and tax evasion.

Hmmm? This is not what the other website, the original site, I investigated said about expulsions. In Wiki, two guys have been expelled since 1862 and the other site said that everybody had resigned before they were expelled. I may have been looking at the Senate and House of Representatives separately. So, two Reps. got expelled, but no Senators...okay, that makes sense.

[encode_decode]

WendyDarling

Just an FYI - I don't know a great deal about politics - I am a quick learner though - when I say quick - 3 to 6 months should do it on history and some technical stuff.

Hmmm? This is not what the other website, the original site, I investigated said about expulsions. In Wiki, two guys have been expelled since 1862 and the other site said that everybody had resigned before they were expelled. I may have been looking at the Senate and House of Representatives separately. So, two Reps. got expelled, but no Senators...okay, that makes sense.

I really detest inconsistency between websites - I believe it contributes to some of the ballyhoo of conspiracy BS that we have to put up with. I think the Wikipedia link that you provided will be a good start for me. I will be looking at the references - that is for certain. I am familiar with the Senate and House setup - we have that here. I can also ask in another forum that I am a member of - there is a guy in there that understands this stuff pretty well.

Before you know it, I will be edumacated . . .

[encode_decode]

Interesting . . . so even thought we have a Senate and House of Representatives, it seems as though there is a fundamental difference between where I am from and the USA - we follow a parliamentary system, from what I can determine the USA does not. I guess I will find out as I go . . .

[James S Saint]

Where's the tipping point between weak and strong AI? What is the line of code that changes everything?

When you tell the AI to do a task and it says, "No."

[encode_decode]

Where's the tipping point between weak and strong AI? What is the line of code that changes everything?

When you tell the AI to do a task and it says, "No."

Good point - however true weak AI is based on a narrow set of tasks - an automaton(and possibly automata). There is no line of code between weak and strong. Strong must be designed to think for itself - weak can be engineered to say no but then it would not be weak anymore(even that could be debated).