Group pride

[Pandora]

Some group pride is artificially created. You just take a small, miniscule difference and blow it up until they see themselves as a completely different group. This has been done so many times throughout history and over the most absurd things too.

Before European expansion and colonization, were European countries not fighting with each other? History shows that group loyalty is more ideological than racial.

[captaincrunk]

Classes create distinction, they don't reflect them. Only a retarded would fail to see such.

The implication is that if you take an untouchable and put it in some higher class, say the warrior class, he's going to cease to be an untouchable and become a warrior.

That means we are all born equal (blank slate) and that our shape is defined entirely by one generation of nurturing.
...
Castes exist to make sure that everyone reaches their potential to the fullest. And different people have different potentials. Without castes, or with poorly established castes, you get stunted development -- wasted potential. That's what we have today.

An interesting fact is that it's more difficult to go up than to go down. An inferior person cannot become superior within any period of time. But a superior person can quickly degenerate into an inferior one.

Here's a thought, maybe we aren't blank slate. Maybe we have different abilities and that's great. I suck at painting but I'm probably stronger than most painters, it makes for a better society.

But there's no reason to make the ignorant leap to racism or classism. Simply being born or adopted by wealthy parents wouldn't make you somehow better able to compete in society. Castes waste potential by forcing Einsteins to carry garbage. It's fucking dumb as hell.

Also your use of inferior and superior are incorrect and unhelpful.

[captaincrunk]

All those identity groups I don't like I call hate groups, although they don't do anything else than the other identity groups.
Muh hateful supremacy group.

So you prefer your group over other groups, hence why you identify with said group, huh.
Lucky for you, you aren't a White identity group because then it would be 'hateful supremacy'.


It's actually even more sinister.
So you are White and so you identify as White.
Sorry but that's hateful supremacy.

Why can't you be a good Whitey and embrace your demise?

Have you ever considered that those who are black and involved in organizations to promote black welfare may be doing it out of necessity, to improve their lives and the lives of their community members, rather than out of some idiotic and perverse pride in their genetics?

Sure, some groups even among minorities are racist and would, without provocation, commit genocide. They're all deplorable and ought be extinguished in the social arena.

[AutSider]

Wait, so you're telling me that your reasons, minus any good counter arguments = your position is correct?

That's what you believe?

You've done nothing but assert inanities and post food pics in all my recent threads in S&G so far. Are you genuinely this stupid or are you just pretending?

My position is correct because it describes reality. I know you've got nothing.

You're making deductions from unconventional definitions, so its on you to demonstrate that no groups are not violent.

I already explained why all individual organisms are violent in my Nobody is anti-violence thread, and the same reasoning that applies to individual organisms applies to groups, since they consist of individual organisms.

As for food pics some of the meat was raw from the inside, that's gross man. Should have told them to take it back and prepare it properly.

[AutSider]

Some group pride is artificially created. You just take a small, miniscule difference and blow it up until they see themselves as a completely different group. This has been done so many times throughout history and over the most absurd things too.

Before European expansion and colonization, were European countries not fighting with each other? History shows that group loyalty is more ideological than racial.

Actually, it was more nationalistic than racial because different races didn't interact much throughout most of history, nice try.

White nationalism (which draws the line at race) is indeed kind of a new thing, a more global-thinking ideology which recognizes that however much different white nations are from one another, we are still much more similar to each other than to Chinese, Japanese, niggers, sand-niggers, etc. and we'd do much better in the arena of global competition of we united.

[Mr Reasonable]

Dude. I knew it. You're one of those people who orders a steak well done. Gross. We are no longer friends. If you ordered a well done steak while dining out with me, I would not invite you again. You should be embarrassed.

Besides that, your explanation doesn't overcome my objection. Don't be hard headed. Put together another argument.

[Pandora]

I think globalization is a bigger underlying problem here that needs to be addressed.

[Mr Reasonable]

I mean it just ruins the meat and turns it all grey on the inside. And for real, when you order well done, everyone on the wait staff, and all the cooks look down on you and think you're low brow because no one with any sense does that to a fine cut of meat.

You deserve a diet of beef jerky.

[Magnus Anderson]

Here's a thought, maybe we aren't blank slate. Maybe we have different abilities and that's great. I suck at painting but I'm probably stronger than most painters, it makes for a better society.

That's a step forward.

But there's no reason to make the ignorant leap to racism or classism. Simply being born or adopted by wealthy parents wouldn't make you somehow better able to compete in society. Castes waste potential by forcing Einsteins to carry garbage. It's fucking dumb as hell.

How else would you preserve inherent distinctions if not by drawing boundaries using castes?

When people who have different natural inclinations come in contact with each other, they end up suffocating each other. That's why castes are a must.

Castes don't force Einsteins to carry garbage. Unless they are grounded in fantasy rather than in reality. And certainly, if you don't have castes at all, that's what's going to happen, you're gonna have Einsteins carrying the garbage.

It's a very very very stupid argument. Things are WORSE without castes NOT better.

[captaincrunk]

Some group pride is artificially created. You just take a small, miniscule difference and blow it up until they see themselves as a completely different group. This has been done so many times throughout history and over the most absurd things too.

Before European expansion and colonization, were European countries not fighting with each other? History shows that group loyalty is more ideological than racial.

Actually, it was more nationalistic than racial because different races didn't interact much throughout most of history, nice try.

White nationalism (which draws the line at race) is indeed kind of a new thing, a more global-thinking ideology which recognizes that however much different white nations are from one another, we are still much more similar to each other than to Chinese, Japanese, niggers, sand-niggers, etc. and we'd do much better in the arena of global competition of we united.

You have nothing in common with Western ideology, aka most of white people. You are an inspiration hateful idiot.

[captaincrunk]

Here's a thought, maybe we aren't blank slate. Maybe we have different abilities and that's great. I suck at painting but I'm probably stronger than most painters, it makes for a better society.

That's a step forward.

But there's no reason to make the ignorant leap to racism or classism. Simply being born or adopted by wealthy parents wouldn't make you somehow better able to compete in society. Castes waste potential by forcing Einsteins to carry garbage. It's fucking dumb as hell.

How else would you preserve inherent distinctions if not by drawing boundaries using castes?

When people who have different natural inclinations come in contact with each other, they end up suffocating each other. That's why castes are a must.

Castes don't force Einsteins to carry garbage. Unless they are grounded in fantasy rather than in reality. And certainly, if you don't have castes at all, that's what's going to happen, you're gonna have Einsteins carrying the garbage.

It's a very very very stupid argument. Things are WORSE without castes NOT better.

Ah, you are an idiot and a jackass I see. At any rate, the distinctions aren't inherent, most abilities are learned, and most people given similar circumstances will produce similar output. You are clinging to this dumbfuck idea that you are a special snowflake just because you are a white honky cracker.

[Mr Reasonable]

And they ruin steaks.

[Mr Reasonable]

Which is the ultimate irony, because only black people order a steak well done. Not being racist, just saying, ask anyone who works in a restaurant. Just like Mexicans always want pineapple on a pizza. It would be like viewing Mexicans as inferior, then ordering pineapple pizza. Hilarious.

[Mr Reasonable]

Autsider....you wouldn't eat this? If you say no, then you may as well just go eat some stringy overcooked chicken covered in bbq sauce for all I care.

[AutSider]

Autsider....you wouldn't eat this? If you say no, then you may as well just go eat some stringy overcooked chicken covered in bbq sauce for all I care.

Gotta love how you're telling me that groups are non-violent while you're posting pictures of animal meat (which had to be killed and prepared by a group). I love it when other people unwittingly make my case for me.

Keep telling me how groups are non-violent while eating raw, red, bloody meat that was torn from another living organism. I eat meat too, but I don't try to bullshit others by pretending living organisms can be non-violent.

[Mr Reasonable]

1 man can kill an animal without being in a group. Sorry man, you're wrong again.

[Mr Reasonable]

1 real man at least. In America at least. I dunno about a pansy European "man". Maybe it takes a whole group of you over there.

[Mr Reasonable]

Like in the old Robert Redford movie, "Jeremiah Johnson". That one dude killed a bear with a knife.

[AutSider]

If you concede that an individual man can be violent, then you also concede that groups are violent, since they are made up of individual men.

If anything, groups tend to be more violent - they consume more resources, take up more space, and have more capacity for physical destruction. I explained all of this in my thread I linked.

You've got nothing and you know it.

[Mr Reasonable]

You're making me think of that serf from Monty Python who screams, "can't you see the violence that's inherent in the system!"

One man can be, and some groups can be. But that doesn't entail that all men and all groups are. Duhhhh

[Mr Reasonable]

You should get an lsat prep book and just keep doing the games section. It can really help you to see how logical arguments are formed, and how common fallacies can be embedded in simple groups of statements.

[Mr Reasonable]

Like your reading comprehension is decent, and you can write in complete sentences, but you're having a lot of trouble making what should be a relatively simple argument. I could do it for you, but I disagree with the argument so I'll just keep doing my side.

[Mr Reasonable]

You just seem way too caught up in feelings and how things feel and not so much in how things really are. Can't emotivism your way out of reality man.

[Mr Reasonable]

Like print out a copy of that "square of opposition"and just tape it up next to your computer.

[Mr Reasonable]

Like you say, "one man can be, therefore all groups are".

You see the problem there?

I was trying to talk to someone about necessity vs possibility the other day because they were asking for philosophy and they got pissy and ran off. But I told them, a lot of people have real trouble with that distinction. And here we are....