In Sight of SAM, I Am

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Re: In Sight of SAM, I Am

Postby James S Saint » Tue Aug 12, 2014 6:58 pm

You still seem to be presuming too much. I guess I shouldn't be surprised that a man who studies history so much has his mind stuck in it. What part of "new advent", do you fail to understand? I cannot say that it is "this..." or "that..." by category name. SAM is none of the historical icon models with which you could compare it and predict it. You would have to experience it in order to predict it. Science would have to experiment with it in order to predict it. And logic can predict it, but only to find it to be the most rational organization for literally all homosapians, although they can't know that until they can see it for themselves.

And it is not valid to presume that because one element is like A, then the whole is corruptible in the ways of A. Just because one part is communistic doesn't mean that the whole is corruptible as communism would be. Just because another part is democratic doesn't mean that the whole is corruptible as democracy would be. The fact that it is a combination of a variety of older schemes somewhat implies that none of those corruptions would directly apply.

It is assumed in the design that there will be efforts, both accidental and intentional, to corrupt it, else it wouldn't be worth considering. It is designed with that in mind and as a very high criterion for design. Corruption is the entropy and cancer. And every form of corruption has a cause, thus an "anti-cause" or cure. But SAM is not anti-entropic, else it would grow endlessly as governing attempts before it have tried. Thus the focus is on "Anentropy", as is life itself. Every form of entropy has an anti-entropy compensation. SAM is inherently mindful, ever attending to every detail. It is "Anentropic", resistant to corruption.

SAM is democratic in sense A
SAM is capitalistic in sense B
SAM is socialistic in sense C
SAM is communistic in sense D
SAM is constitutional in sense E

But what SAM is exactly, is NotA, None of the Above categories.

My point in the last post was that SAM is cellular in nature. The larger body that forms from a multitude of SAM corps is not merely a larger version of the SAM cells that formed it, just as your body is not merely a larger human cell.

And SAM does not take the course in its formation that those prior to it have taken. It does not take the path of force or self imposed coercion. SAM doesn't insist against choice. It permits against chaotic oppressive demise.

As I said, SAM is an evolution, formed of experience, wisdom, and logic. I am well aware of the very cause of corruption, Presumption, "anti-clarification" and "anti-verification". SAM doesn't presume that its members are saintly and incorruptible, quite the opposite.
Clarify, Verify, Instill, and Reinforce the Perception of Hopes and Threats unto Anentropic Harmony :)
Else
From THIS age of sleep, Homo-sapien shall never awake.

The Wise gather together to help one another in EVERY aspect of living.

You are always more insecure than you think, just not by what you think.
The only absolute certainty is formed by the absolute lack of alternatives.
It is not merely "do what works", but "to accomplish what purpose in what time frame at what cost".
As long as the authority is secretive, the population will be subjugated.

Amid the lack of certainty, put faith in the wiser to believe.
Devil's Motto: Make it look good, safe, innocent, and wise.. until it is too late to choose otherwise.

The Real God ≡ The reason/cause for the Universe being what it is = "The situation cannot be what it is and also remain as it is".
.
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Re: In Sight of SAM, I Am

Postby James S Saint » Fri Aug 22, 2014 11:51 pm

The real world of Man really is extremely complex in more ways than you could possibly imagine. And that is why explaining SAM, the final resolve, is such a complex challenge. The clouds hide the Sun and what has to be seen is on the other side of the Sun. Man must "shoot through the Sun" (beyond his Science) in order to see "the light and haven beyond". On a good day, they don't care to look toward the Sun. And on a bad day, they crave only to see more of what they saw before. When his mind can see, his heart doesn't care. And when his heart does care, his mind cannot see.
Clarify, Verify, Instill, and Reinforce the Perception of Hopes and Threats unto Anentropic Harmony :)
Else
From THIS age of sleep, Homo-sapien shall never awake.

The Wise gather together to help one another in EVERY aspect of living.

You are always more insecure than you think, just not by what you think.
The only absolute certainty is formed by the absolute lack of alternatives.
It is not merely "do what works", but "to accomplish what purpose in what time frame at what cost".
As long as the authority is secretive, the population will be subjugated.

Amid the lack of certainty, put faith in the wiser to believe.
Devil's Motto: Make it look good, safe, innocent, and wise.. until it is too late to choose otherwise.

The Real God ≡ The reason/cause for the Universe being what it is = "The situation cannot be what it is and also remain as it is".
.
James S Saint
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Re: In Sight of SAM, I Am

Postby James S Saint » Mon Aug 25, 2014 10:33 am

Mithus wrote:Which position would you give to yourself, if you had to choose one (but only one)?

Within the first prototype, I have to be the coordinator/overseer/supreme court, because that is the one ensuring that the other departments understand and are following the constitution. And in the first case, verifying that the constitution isn't leaving out any concern and is sufficient for general use by others.

If there were many SAM corps available for me to jump into (moving from one to another is an acceptable part of the system), I would probably have to choose between either the coordinator or the analyst because those are where my talents are. But every SAM corp chooses who is in which department by their tested talents. How and why the tests work is no secret. There is no competition for slots other than passing tests concerning job-talent. And such testing can be retaken many times. The intent is to fit the most talented person into the position that requires his talents. That makes the "joy factor" much higher than being stuck into a position that requires talents that someone else excels at better. Reducing anxiety and any need to hide or pretend is essential.

And also note that being in a department doesn't mean that one is head of the department, merely that such an atmosphere is best suited for that person. In a sense, the departments don't exactly have "heads" in the conventional sense. The head of a department isn't really dictating much of anything, but rather assembling information or acting on it. The apparent situation is what is actually making the decisions (aka "Reality" or actually the group's best guess at it), not anyone within the group. The people are merely gathering and assembling the information concerning the situation. When assembled properly, the result is a clear indicator as to which action to take. It isn't up to anyone to say, "well, I like plan A better than B, so that's what we'll all do". And some issues are left up to passion voting. There is no room for egos or vanity (those people don't pass the tests). SAM corps are entirely altruistic (no place for hidden agendas to hide).

But more importantly, realize that information toward decision making is gathered from ALL members. The best idea concerning something related to one department might well emerge from a member of a different department. They each see each other's work. And everyone has the right (and somewhat an obligation) to present any argument for a better idea. The result, because it is such a small group, is that the group is led by the best ideas from throughout the group, not merely the "the most talented leader" of such a group. No one cares who presented an idea. The only issue is which idea appears to be the best available at the time and there is a process for determining that. Sometimes it is merely a vote.

And all of that is why machines WILL do it, if people don't. Machines are not concerned with egos, pride, vanity, or blind lusts for power. They are already designed to seek out the best method/alternative.
Clarify, Verify, Instill, and Reinforce the Perception of Hopes and Threats unto Anentropic Harmony :)
Else
From THIS age of sleep, Homo-sapien shall never awake.

The Wise gather together to help one another in EVERY aspect of living.

You are always more insecure than you think, just not by what you think.
The only absolute certainty is formed by the absolute lack of alternatives.
It is not merely "do what works", but "to accomplish what purpose in what time frame at what cost".
As long as the authority is secretive, the population will be subjugated.

Amid the lack of certainty, put faith in the wiser to believe.
Devil's Motto: Make it look good, safe, innocent, and wise.. until it is too late to choose otherwise.

The Real God ≡ The reason/cause for the Universe being what it is = "The situation cannot be what it is and also remain as it is".
.
James S Saint
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Re: In Sight of SAM, I Am

Postby James S Saint » Wed Oct 01, 2014 1:34 am

SAM is about everyone actually becoming their own man (coherent, strong, and purposeful), but in a wise way.
Clarify, Verify, Instill, and Reinforce the Perception of Hopes and Threats unto Anentropic Harmony :)
Else
From THIS age of sleep, Homo-sapien shall never awake.

The Wise gather together to help one another in EVERY aspect of living.

You are always more insecure than you think, just not by what you think.
The only absolute certainty is formed by the absolute lack of alternatives.
It is not merely "do what works", but "to accomplish what purpose in what time frame at what cost".
As long as the authority is secretive, the population will be subjugated.

Amid the lack of certainty, put faith in the wiser to believe.
Devil's Motto: Make it look good, safe, innocent, and wise.. until it is too late to choose otherwise.

The Real God ≡ The reason/cause for the Universe being what it is = "The situation cannot be what it is and also remain as it is".
.
James S Saint
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Posts: 25976
Joined: Sun Apr 18, 2010 8:05 pm

Re: In Sight of SAM, I Am

Postby Arminius » Fri Oct 03, 2014 6:38 pm

James S Saint wrote:SAM is about everyone actually becoming their own man (coherent, strong, and purposeful), but in a wise way.

But SAM ("Social Anentropic Molecule") is not PAM ("Personal Anentropic Molecule"). :wink:
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Re: In Sight of SAM, I Am

Postby James S Saint » Sat Oct 04, 2014 5:10 am

Arminius wrote:
James S Saint wrote:SAM is about everyone actually becoming their own man (coherent, strong, and purposeful), but in a wise way.

But SAM ("Social Anentropic Molecule") is not PAM ("Personal Anentropic Molecule"). :wink:

No, because PAM is not wise. A wise man knows how to utilize teamwork in life. He is not a stand alone human (unwise), but a member of a few tightly associated humans; a "team" or "family" or "small group". SAM is the structure of that group such as to bring to authority the most intelligence, awareness, and influence for the group rather than the more simple ways of merely having a leader who is tasked with trying to know everything and make all of the decisions or a voting process yielding the lowest common acceptance.

SAM is anentropic in that its structure not only allows for changes and updates, but basically requires them moment by moment. SAM ensures that learning takes place primarily by associating documented intentions and designs with actual accomplishments. Every member of a SAM corp, can be called a true man (even the women if they choose), because the strength is shared.
Clarify, Verify, Instill, and Reinforce the Perception of Hopes and Threats unto Anentropic Harmony :)
Else
From THIS age of sleep, Homo-sapien shall never awake.

The Wise gather together to help one another in EVERY aspect of living.

You are always more insecure than you think, just not by what you think.
The only absolute certainty is formed by the absolute lack of alternatives.
It is not merely "do what works", but "to accomplish what purpose in what time frame at what cost".
As long as the authority is secretive, the population will be subjugated.

Amid the lack of certainty, put faith in the wiser to believe.
Devil's Motto: Make it look good, safe, innocent, and wise.. until it is too late to choose otherwise.

The Real God ≡ The reason/cause for the Universe being what it is = "The situation cannot be what it is and also remain as it is".
.
James S Saint
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Posts: 25976
Joined: Sun Apr 18, 2010 8:05 pm

Re: In Sight of SAM, I Am

Postby James S Saint » Thu Jun 25, 2015 6:12 pm

Arminius wrote:How can people of SAM defend themselves against corruption?

SAM is anentropic, the very essence of defense against entropy or corruption. People normally try to hope that their scheme for doing other things will not suffer corruption, but the "people of SAM" do nothing BUT defend themselves against corruption.

You eat so as to restore your health and spirit, diverting entropy/corruption. You work so as to gain the resources for eating. You sleep so as to rid your body of inadvertent corruption. You clean your body and house so as to dispense with corruption. In the long run, literally everything people do is actually merely the result of an attempt to maintain themselves, including sex, watching TV, eating too much, drugs, scheming, political activism,... everything. The problem is merely that that get confused and don't maintain very well.

The notion recently promoted in the last 400 years or so that the goal and purpose of life is "power" (WtP), is false and merely a social/psychological trick. And that is the real reason that so very many people are not Nietzschian nor Faustian. Life has never actually been about gaining power. The truth is rather that gaining power is for ensuring maintenance. But it is too easy for Man to confuse anti-entropy (the effort to grow) with an-entropy (the effort to maintain).

The focus must be maintained upon the actual goal/purpose. A degree of power must be sought, just as a degree of sex is required for reproduction. But that doesn't mean that anyone has to become manic about either. Power and sex (just as examples) serve only the purpose of ensuring the future maintenance.

Acquisition is not the goal. SAM maintains focus on Maintaining = Anentropy (anti-corruption). It does that through its decision making process which involves IJOT, an ongoing calculation of the eternal maintaining of joy throughout its populous.
Clarify, Verify, Instill, and Reinforce the Perception of Hopes and Threats unto Anentropic Harmony :)
Else
From THIS age of sleep, Homo-sapien shall never awake.

The Wise gather together to help one another in EVERY aspect of living.

You are always more insecure than you think, just not by what you think.
The only absolute certainty is formed by the absolute lack of alternatives.
It is not merely "do what works", but "to accomplish what purpose in what time frame at what cost".
As long as the authority is secretive, the population will be subjugated.

Amid the lack of certainty, put faith in the wiser to believe.
Devil's Motto: Make it look good, safe, innocent, and wise.. until it is too late to choose otherwise.

The Real God ≡ The reason/cause for the Universe being what it is = "The situation cannot be what it is and also remain as it is".
.
James S Saint
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Posts: 25976
Joined: Sun Apr 18, 2010 8:05 pm

Re: In Sight of SAM, I Am

Postby obsrvr524 » Thu Oct 29, 2020 7:52 pm

Zookers what a heavy truck! But I'm going to try to take it on. I have tried to read quickly through all of this subject several times and it just seems to get more and more inclusive of serious sociological issues that the world has serious problems with including in part -

[*] Size of government issues
[*] Diversity issues
[*] Corruption issues
[*] Distribution of wealth issues
[*] Purpose and meaning of life issues
[*] Purpose of government issues
[*] Decision making issues
[*] Sanity in society issues
[*] Truth versus fantasy issues
[*] Wisdom or philosophy issues
[*] Preemptive healthcare issues

and more.

I've never seen or even heard of anything like it. I'm trying to find something that it doesn't handle.

There seems to be 3 primary thread topics that combine to explain this thing along with many randomly distributed reply posts in many other threads -
Communal Particle
In Sight of SAM
Ensuring Accomplishment, No Matter the Task
All seem to be highly reductionist and so are probably hard for non-reductionists to relate to. There seems to be only about 3 analytical reductionists actively on this board so I am largely stuck having to discuss it with people I personally know.

My immediate concern is how this kind of community would suffer modern day globalist political efforts - CCP, Marxists and the like. Obviously power crazed activists and would-be dictators wouldn't like it and would act against it. That seems unavoidable considering that it is very largely about openness. On the other hand, that aspect makes it easier for the surveillance state to be comfortable investigating what is actually going on inside (no need for personal assets and spies).

I first noted that it seems to handle one recently discussed issue really well -
obsrvr524 wrote:
Communism = We the entire population share equal impoverishment. We all have equal authority - none. We all love each other equally - to death. We are the good. There is no god, no reality, and no truth.

~~~
So even the ideal communist society can only be very small and temporary.

[*] Large Ideal Communist Society - not possible = Fantasy.

Socialism = We the righteous (those who have rights), being more virtuous and better than the commoners deserve to rule over them with more privilege and wealth. Common laborers have only the rights we grant to them as we see fit. We are the good and their god to speak their reality into truth.

~~~
[*] Large Ideal Socialist Society - not possible = Fantasy.

Both of these idealistic societies have to be small to logically and certainly practically exist.

It seems that in order to achieve that most attractive feature of
"Each person contributes and receives according to their ability and needs"
Any society is going to HAVE TO BE made of smaller, much smaller groups.

SAM proposes a society of tightly interconnected very small constitutional republics. I guess this could be categorized as a type of networked constitutional tribalism and extreme representative democracy. I can't find anything like it on Google.

It easily passes the test of "government overreach" as well as individual representation directly to the governing body. Those are two of the biggest issues in the world.

But I am still looking for potential weaknesses or anything left out.
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Re: In Sight of SAM, I Am

Postby promethean75 » Thu Oct 29, 2020 9:02 pm

We will accept only a neo-Soviet system of vertical councelship in which the people directly elect officials who follow mandates and are subject to immediate recall.

In our system there will be voting everywhere. You'll be voting so godamn much you'll be sick of the public responsiblity and long for a fascist dictator to rise up and make decisions for you. That's how dreadfully democratic our system will be. You'll have an app on your phone where you'll submit your decision on hundreds if not thousands of issues a week.
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Re: In Sight of SAM, I Am

Postby obsrvr524 » Thu Oct 29, 2020 9:37 pm

promethean75 wrote:We will accept only~~~

Who is "we"?

After I posted, I thought of possibly the greatest weakness of SAM - people don't see the need for it even though it solves a great many serious issues. I'm sure the same could be said of science and many newly proposed social efforts throughout history.

Unlike previous prophets, politicians, philosophers, and societal motivators, James didn't make even the slightest effort to gather a following. He did explain in depth his theory of Perception of Hope and Threat - PHT that he claimed to be the underlying motivation principle for ALL conscious behavior. Interestingly he didn't seem to use it to promote anything like normal motivators do. My guess so far is that he didn't because he was actually explaining things to someone possibly more into the game, not trying to actually motivate anyone personally. And I am still suspicious that he might have been communicating to those who put Mr Trump into office (not Mr Trump himself). Perhaps James would have done more by getting on Twitter although that would be a hard place to find analytical reductionists who could follow anything he was saying.

I think it is correct that people don't do hardly anything helpful until they sense a need. And even then, rather than try to solve present and also past issues, they just jump to the most superficial and obvious sign of change and hope even though the same efforts have proven to be failures. James did mention that the expected means of propagation was simply by seeing it work for others.

The world is actually at war. But this time the war isn't very obvious and is greatly obfuscated so as to hide the real dangers ("carrot on a stick" versus "apple on a stick").

So if by "we" you mean the people of the world, you might be right. But that assumes a doomsday narrative - not a solution.
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Re: In Sight of SAM, I Am

Postby Ecmandu » Thu Oct 29, 2020 11:04 pm

James was not a spiritual person. That’s why his posts are lacking. Sure, he’ll say shit like “we need to do this to accomplish this...”

I say that as well... but I have a caveat that James never explored.

We are beings who were never born and never die. With that out of the way... we get bored with forever.

All of our reality and ‘natural laws’. Is just someone saying, “I worked in this plan for trillions of years, let’s try it out!”

And us (being bored as fuck) said, “ok, whatever, why not?!”

That’s where we are.

James didn’t know shit like this. He thought this was everything, and he was going to fix it by its own rules from the inside out.

James saw only what he was capable of seeing at the time.

Perception of hope and fear? Interesting that James didn’t use the term “necessarily better and fear”

Hope is a joke. The very thing James despised.

Hope is pathetic. Actual plans are not.

Fear is a product of hope. It means that we do things because we have an aversion (fear) because we have a plan. Fear and hope are not mutually exclusive. But James made it that way.
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Re: In Sight of SAM, I Am

Postby obsrvr524 » Sat Oct 31, 2020 4:37 am

Among all of the theorizing, James proposed two ideas that seem to address the issue of people "seeing the need".

[*] "Make it known, easy, and fun, and it will get done"
[*] "Clarify, Verify, Instill, and Reinforce the Perception of Hopes and Threats unto Anentropic Harmony"

The first is obviously about emotional appeal for those who have no discipline. The second is about essential requirements. The question is how he or anyone would have accomplished either. A great solution isn't a solution if it is never implemented.

Maybe a video game with MIJOT scoring of some kind.
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Re: In Sight of SAM, I Am

Postby Ecmandu » Sat Oct 31, 2020 5:01 pm

Sean Connery just died today.

One of his quotes is:

“You have to be anti social to succeed. Otherwise you’ll be eaten alive”

He’s right about THIS iteration of existence.

Then there’s people like me who say, “I’m not amused, fuck this shit!” It’s people like me who are going to change this shitstorm.
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Re: In Sight of SAM, I Am

Postby obsrvr524 » Sat Oct 31, 2020 6:39 pm

Ecmandu wrote:It’s people like me who are going to change this shitstorm.
Ecmandu wrote:Hope is pathetic. Actual plans are not.

So you have a plan?
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Re: In Sight of SAM, I Am

Postby Ecmandu » Sat Oct 31, 2020 9:22 pm

obsrvr524 wrote:
Ecmandu wrote:It’s people like me who are going to change this shitstorm.
Ecmandu wrote:Hope is pathetic. Actual plans are not.

So you have a plan?


I do. You didn’t want to read the link I gave you.

I know a lot more than you or James know or knew about existence as a whole. Without reading my link, you mocked me as a psychiatrists study.
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Re: In Sight of SAM, I Am

Postby obsrvr524 » Mon Nov 02, 2020 1:08 am

Ecmandu wrote:
obsrvr524 wrote:
Ecmandu wrote:It’s people like me who are going to change this shitstorm.
Ecmandu wrote:Hope is pathetic. Actual plans are not.

So you have a plan?


I do. You didn’t want to read the link I gave you.

I haven't read it because almost everything you post seems just in error or so extremely and narcissisticly unbelievable and uneducated - such as the following -
Ecmandu wrote:I know a lot more than you or James know or knew about existence as a whole.

That is just such a dumb thing to say even if it was true. Obviously you want (too much) for people to believe that, but no one does. That could be guaranteed.

But because you said that you have a plan (that I don't believe for a second is likely true), I will read your link. I will be astonished if you have posted without including something ridiculously false or unbelievable. Let's see....

What is the link you refer to?
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Re: In Sight of SAM, I Am

Postby Ecmandu » Mon Nov 02, 2020 1:30 am

obsrvr524 wrote:
What is the link you refer to?


This down to the end....

https://www.ilovephilosophy.com/viewtop ... 1#p2773401

Unlike James, I’m still here to query
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Re: In Sight of SAM, I Am

Postby obsrvr524 » Mon Nov 02, 2020 1:57 am

Ecmandu wrote:
obsrvr524 wrote:
What is the link you refer to?


This down to the end....

https://www.ilovephilosophy.com/viewtop ... 1#p2773401

Just that chapter or the whole book?
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Re: In Sight of SAM, I Am

Postby Ecmandu » Mon Nov 02, 2020 3:22 am

obsrvr524 wrote:
Ecmandu wrote:
obsrvr524 wrote:
What is the link you refer to?


This down to the end....

https://www.ilovephilosophy.com/viewtop ... 1#p2773401

Just that chapter or the whole book?


I’d recommend the whole book (it’s only 1 1/2 ILP pages)

The most important thing I have to impress upon you and James though, is that we ALL made this together.

James believed in god and was a republican (like uccisore).

I’m not a radical, I just happen to understand existence better....

What we’re currently in, is an idea that a being spent trillions of years developing.

I can’t stress this enough. None of us were ever born and none of us will ever die — we get bored.

We listened to the plan — god, Jesus, allah, Muhammad, Buddha, enlightenment, winning vs. losing, memory wipes... etc... and we said “why the fuck not?!”

That’s all this is. James didn’t know that.
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Re: In Sight of SAM, I Am

Postby obsrvr524 » Thu Nov 05, 2020 9:12 am

This might be a good time to mention that this SAM thing would avoid all of this current US media bias and propaganda corruption. Democracy cannot exist under a unified/collaborating media. Both truth and democracy dies in the darkness.

Ecmandu I haven't forgotten you. I read part of your story. You started off good in explaining what seems to me to be an abusive upbringing - my sympathies. But then you took a sharp turn into ozzie wanker land. At that point I had to take a break and get back to work, wife, and wealth pursuits. I'll get back to it.
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Re: In Sight of SAM, I Am

Postby Ecmandu » Thu Nov 05, 2020 4:48 pm

obsrvr524 wrote:This might be a good time to mention that this SAM thing would avoid all of this current US media bias and propaganda corruption. Democracy cannot exist under a unified/collaborating media. Both truth and democracy dies in the darkness.

Ecmandu I haven't forgotten you. I read part of your story. You started off good in explaining what seems to me to be an abusive upbringing - my sympathies. But then you took a sharp turn into ozzie wanker land. At that point I had to take a break and get back to work, wife, and wealth pursuits. I'll get back to it.


As long as you read about hyperdimensional mirror realities, you’ve seen what my plan for existence is.

You can ignore the rest for the purposes of this thread.
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