Renewing the Moderation?

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Moderator: Carleas

Should the moderation be renewed?

Poll runs till Tue Feb 07, 2023 12:01 am

1) No.
8
42%
2) Yes.
11
58%
 
Total votes : 19

Re: Renewing the Moderation?

Postby Great Again » Sat Apr 10, 2021 12:19 am

MagsJ wrote:_
Do we even need moderation? The current ILP ethos would suggest otherwise, that we don’t.

We are moderators unto ourselves and unto each other.

Imagine, Carleas (whoever he is or was) simply deletes, without publicly justifying this deletion, all those threads that violate his rules. :lol:
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Re: Renewing the Moderation?

Postby promethean75 » Sat Apr 10, 2021 10:57 am

I would like to apply for the position of moderator.
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Re: Renewing the Moderation?

Postby Dan~ » Sun Apr 11, 2021 7:27 am

promethean75 wrote:I would like to apply for the position of moderator.

What kind of moderation would you like to do, ideally?
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Re: Renewing the Moderation?

Postby promethean75 » Sun Apr 11, 2021 2:21 pm

aah you know just regular old moderating I guess. Moderate a little of this, moderate a little of that... just... you know.... moderating... like what you do when you moderate something.
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Re: Renewing the Moderation?

Postby Dan~ » Sun Apr 11, 2021 2:44 pm

Haha. Ok. Well, personally, I think the admin should give you a chance, to see if you are up for it.
If it works, then great. Less clicking for me to do on my own.
When I am taking a break,
sometimes someone has to wait to be approved.
Most of the approve notices i get are from spam bots.
But every once in a while a real new member posts.
And I can be late to approve them, because i am
doing other non ILP things.

If you were a mod, approval could happen faster,
because we would both be on it.

I have not yet banned anyone.
The ad homs usually go both ways and i can't tell who started it.
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Re: Renewing the Moderation?

Postby Mr Reasonable » Tue Apr 13, 2021 12:23 am

prom's got my vote
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Re: Renewing the Moderation?

Postby Otto » Tue Apr 13, 2021 12:59 am

I would only want to become a moderator under one condition: in a subforum only for trolls without access for others - and vice versa. In such a subforum I could continue my troll research and at the same time encourage the trolls to troll more and more.
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Re: Renewing the Moderation?

Postby Great Again » Sun Apr 25, 2021 9:34 pm

Otto wrote:I would only want to become a moderator under one condition: in a subforum only for trolls without access for others - and vice versa. In such a subforum I could continue my troll research and at the same time encourage the trolls to troll more and more.

Having such a moderator would be better than having no moderator.
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Re: Renewing the Moderation?

Postby encode_decode » Mon Apr 26, 2021 1:48 am

What would you say there is to moderate?

I have seen a few threads locked that needed it.

Aside from that, things seem ok.

I think all that you could do apart from that is remind people to stay on track if they diverge too far from OPs. Perhaps prevent ad hominem from getting too far out of hand.

The only other thing I have seen(only once in the last year) is repeat posts in multiple threads(same post in multiple threads) aka spam.
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Re: Renewing the Moderation?

Postby Mr Reasonable » Mon Apr 26, 2021 2:34 am

we're an autonomous collective
You see...a pimp's love is very different from that of a square.


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Re: Renewing the Moderation?

Postby Great Again » Tue Apr 27, 2021 12:08 am

encode_decode wrote:What would you say there is to moderate?

I have seen a few threads locked that needed it.

Aside from that, things seem ok.

I think all that you could do apart from that is remind people to stay on track if they diverge too far from OPs. Perhaps prevent ad hominem from getting too far out of hand.

The only other thing I have seen(only once in the last year) is repeat posts in multiple threads(same post in multiple threads) aka spam.
Mr Reasonable wrote:we're an autonomous collective

What you have just said assumes that there is no moderation, but such a premise is false; so you are assuming a false premise. What is true is that there is a moderation. However, according to some ILP members, this moderation leaves something to be desired. I am trying to remain neutral on this issue, but I know that the premise on which these people are starting, namely that the moderation is currently inadequate, is true. So my question is: Who wants what kind of moderation and for what reasons?

It sometimes looks as if there were no ILP moderation, but that is not right. What is right is that there is an ILP moderation.

Should the ILP moderation remain as it is now?
Should the ILP moderation even be abandoned?
Should the ILP moderation be renewed?

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Re: Renewing the Moderation?

Postby encode_decode » Tue Apr 27, 2021 6:09 am

I see there are more than two sides on this forum as opposed to the two sides that some people are referencing. I see that the two sides being referenced are political in nature as opposed to being individual in nature. I don't believe people so easily fit into one category.

...with that being said...

Great Again wrote:
encode_decode wrote:I have seen a few threads locked that needed it.

What you have just said assumes that there is no moderation, but such a premise is false; so you are assuming a false premise. I am trying to remain neutral on this issue, ... Who wants what kind of moderation and for what reasons?

What I have said does not entirely assume no moderation. As I said, I have seen a few threads locked that needed it. My preference would normally be to stay out of it entirely but there may be already too many people staying out of it. My question "What would you say there is to moderate?" is a more open question to anyone and even rhetorical to a point. Usually, I will quote the person as I have done in this post if I feel the need to address them directly. I identified that you were attempting to stay neutral sometime back so out of respect for that identification I did not make it a direct question.

Great Again wrote:Should the ILP moderation remain as it is now?
Should the ILP moderation even be abandoned?
Should the ILP moderation be renewed?

I was happy with the level of moderation there was before we started talking about it. I can see that there are some people who want more moderation just as I can see that there are some people who practice insulting behavior. I am guessing that those who use insulting behavior are either frustrated at which point they turn to insults or they somehow see themselves as above others.

The "majority rules" concept is fitting of the current situation so whatever the majority votes for is what I will settle with until such time that things need to change again - if that need ever arises. It would be nice to see people meet in the middle somehow like one side needs to toughen up and perhaps the other side should tone their insulting behavior down a little(or a lot, hahaha).
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Re: Renewing the Moderation?

Postby Ecmandu » Tue Apr 27, 2021 8:27 pm

What constitutes an insult can be up for debate itself.

Insults are a language unto themselves.

Some people can type walls of seemingly innocuous non ad hom text that when examined closer, are just as insulting as typing “fuck you” as a response.

When I see this, I’ll outline a counterpoint and say fuck you back. Then they start whining about it. Fine. But you stated it.

In my experience, walls of text responding to walls of text are dumb. I try to be concise. Mostly, that includes swearing (strangely enough)... but swearing is not good enough, it needs to include a real counter argument.
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Re: Renewing the Moderation?

Postby Ecmandu » Tue Apr 27, 2021 8:55 pm

Ecmandu wrote:What constitutes an insult can be up for debate itself.

Insults are a language unto themselves.

Some people can type walls of seemingly innocuous non ad hom text that when examined closer, are just as insulting as typing “fuck you” as a response.

When I see this, I’ll outline a counterpoint and say fuck you back. Then they start whining about it. Fine. But you stated it.

In my experience, walls of text responding to walls of text are dumb. I try to be concise. Mostly, that includes swearing (strangely enough)... but swearing is not good enough, it needs to include a real counter argument.


The only real insult is “retard” (which can be stated a great many ways... “ignorant”, “wrong”, “shithead”. Etc...

When stated that insults are a language unto themselves... in the context of a discussion it about who is using the term correctly for the topic at hand.
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Re: Renewing the Moderation?

Postby Great Again » Tue Apr 27, 2021 10:12 pm

encode_decode wrote:I see there are more than two sides on this forum as opposed to the two sides that some people are referencing. I see that the two sides being referenced are political in nature as opposed to being individual in nature. I don't believe people so easily fit into one category.

...with that being said...

Great Again wrote:
encode_decode wrote:I have seen a few threads locked that needed it.

What you have just said assumes that there is no moderation, but such a premise is false; so you are assuming a false premise. I am trying to remain neutral on this issue, ... Who wants what kind of moderation and for what reasons?

What I have said does not entirely assume no moderation.

In the example you gave, Iwas not primarily referring to you.

Great Again wrote:
encode_decode wrote:What would you say there is to moderate?

I have seen a few threads locked that needed it.

Aside from that, things seem ok.

I think all that you could do apart from that is remind people to stay on track if they diverge too far from OPs. Perhaps prevent ad hominem from getting too far out of hand.

The only other thing I have seen(only once in the last year) is repeat posts in multiple threads(same post in multiple threads) aka spam.
Mr Reasonable wrote:we're an autonomous collective

What you have just said assumes that there is no moderation, but such a premise is false; so you are assuming a false premise. What is true is that there is a moderation. However, according to some ILP members, this moderation leaves something to be desired. I am trying to remain neutral on this issue, but I know that the premise on which these people are starting, namely that the moderation is currently inadequate, is true. So my question is: Who wants what kind of moderation and for what reasons?

It sometimes looks as if there were no ILP moderation, but that is not right. What is right is that there is an ILP moderation.

Should the ILP moderation remain as it is now?
Should the ILP moderation even be abandoned?
Should the ILP moderation be renewed?

encode_decode wrote:As I said, I have seen a few threads locked that needed it. My preference would normally be to stay out of it entirely but there may be already too many people staying out of it. My question "What would you say there is to moderate?" is a more open question to anyone and even rhetorical to a point. Usually, I will quote the person as I have done in this post if I feel the need to address them directly. I identified that you were attempting to stay neutral sometime back so out of respect for that identification I did not make it a direct question.

Great Again wrote:Should the ILP moderation remain as it is now?
Should the ILP moderation even be abandoned?
Should the ILP moderation be renewed?

I was happy with the level of moderation there was before we started talking about it. I can see that there are some people who want more moderation just as I can see that there are some people who practice insulting behavior. I am guessing that those who use insulting behavior are either frustrated at which point they turn to insults or they somehow see themselves as above others.

The "majority rules" concept is fitting of the current situation so whatever the majority votes for is what I will settle with until such time that things need to change again - if that need ever arises. It would be nice to see people meet in the middle somehow like one side needs to toughen up and perhaps the other side should tone their insulting behavior down a little(or a lot, hahaha).

It may also be that with more moderation, things will only get worse.

Maybe the time of ILP is simply over.
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Re: Renewing the Moderation?

Postby encode_decode » Tue Apr 27, 2021 10:40 pm

Great Again wrote:Maybe the time of ILP is simply over.

Perhaps it is. In which case I would love to have a copy of the database to archive - like a time capsule. I have had a lot of good interactions here.
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Re: Renewing the Moderation?

Postby MagsJ » Tue Apr 27, 2021 10:42 pm

Great Again wrote:Maybe the time of ILP is simply over.

..in a busy-traffic forum?

From renewing-the-moderation to the-end-is-nigh? that’s the spirit Great Again.
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Re: Renewing the Moderation?

Postby Great Again » Wed Apr 28, 2021 2:05 am

MagsJ wrote:
Great Again wrote:Maybe the time of ILP is simply over.

..in a busy-traffic forum?

From renewing-the-moderation to the-end-is-nigh? that’s the spirit Great Again.

I was just speculating, because the downfall of certain web forums is a general trend, and ILP has no special status. We must be prepared for everything.

Do you believe that ILP will exist forever? And if so: Where will it exist forever, in heaven or in hell?
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Re: Renewing the Moderation?

Postby MagsJ » Wed Apr 28, 2021 3:33 am

Great Again wrote:
MagsJ wrote:
Great Again wrote:Maybe the time of ILP is simply over.

..in a busy-traffic forum?

From renewing-the-moderation to the-end-is-nigh? that’s the spirit Great Again.
I was just speculating, because the downfall of certain web forums is a general trend, and ILP has no special status. We must be prepared for everything.

..but it does have regular members frequenting the joint.

Do you believe that ILP will exist forever? And if so: Where will it exist forever, in heaven or in hell?

It could exist, as long as the internet exists.. that would be nice if it did, wouldn’t it..

There is a heaven? There is a hell? There is a heaven and a hell for websites?
The possibility of anything we can imagine existing is endless and infinite.. - MagsJ
I haven't got the time to spend the time reading something that is telling me nothing, as I will never be able to get back that time, and I may need it for something at some point in time.. Huh! - MagsJ
You’re suggestions and I, just simply don’t mix.. like oil on water, or a really bad DJ - MagsJ
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Re: Renewing the Moderation?

Postby Great Again » Wed Apr 28, 2021 3:52 am

MagsJ wrote:
Great Again wrote:I was just speculating, because the downfall of certain web forums is a general trend, and ILP has no special status. We must be prepared for everything.

..but it does have regular members frequenting the joint.

Do you believe that ILP will exist forever? And if so: Where will it exist forever, in heaven or in hell?

It could exist, as long as the internet exists.. that would be nice if it did, wouldn’t it..

There is a heaven? There is a hell? There is a heaven and a hell for websites?

A metaphor!
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Re: Renewing the Moderation?

Postby encode_decode » Fri Apr 30, 2021 12:04 pm

Something to think about is this: asking for perfect moderation is selfish because perfect moderation would be moderation that would only feel perfect due to it aligning with your own ideas of what good moderation is. The fact of the matter is moderating a forum would be awful and every user of the forum should understand that. How would you like to look through a bunch of threads that probably don't interest you? How many threads are there that you don't even bother taking a look at and why don't you look at them? Answer this question and you will soon come to realize how awful moderation would be. This is perhaps the reason why many people are not coming forward applying for the position of moderator and if it is not for this reason then I would suggest someone who glorifies the idea of moderation in their mind to think about it - because people will expect something of you and when you don't give it to them you will become tied up representing ILP and some members already have a low opinion of the ILP leadership which is woefully sad.

But this is typical of this day and age that people just come to expect! Some of us call it the "me me me" syndrome".
Others simply refer to it as "entitlement".

It would not matter if you did a good job of moderation, there will still be people unhappy with you because truthfully, there is no pleasing everyone.

All this is just "first world problems" anyway. It doesn't even rank high on the list of the world's problems that have the most detrimental impact.
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Re: Renewing the Moderation?

Postby MagsJ » Fri Apr 30, 2021 1:38 pm

Great Again wrote:
MagsJ wrote:
Great Again wrote:Do you believe that ILP will exist forever? And if so: Where will it exist forever, in heaven or in hell?
It could exist, as long as the internet exists.. that would be nice if it did, wouldn’t it..

There is a heaven? There is a hell? There is a heaven and a hell for websites?
A metaphor!

What is heaven to one, is hell to another.. and vice versa.
The possibility of anything we can imagine existing is endless and infinite.. - MagsJ
I haven't got the time to spend the time reading something that is telling me nothing, as I will never be able to get back that time, and I may need it for something at some point in time.. Huh! - MagsJ
You’re suggestions and I, just simply don’t mix.. like oil on water, or a really bad DJ - MagsJ
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Re: Renewing the Moderation?

Postby MagsJ » Fri Apr 30, 2021 1:52 pm

encode_decode wrote:Something to think about is this: asking for perfect moderation is selfish because perfect moderation would be moderation that would only feel perfect due to it aligning with your own ideas of what good moderation is.

Good moderation is definitely subjective.. different wants, different needs, different feels.. n all that, as everyone cannot be pleased all of the time, but only some people some of the time.

People should be able to understand that, and make adjustments accordingly.
The possibility of anything we can imagine existing is endless and infinite.. - MagsJ
I haven't got the time to spend the time reading something that is telling me nothing, as I will never be able to get back that time, and I may need it for something at some point in time.. Huh! - MagsJ
You’re suggestions and I, just simply don’t mix.. like oil on water, or a really bad DJ - MagsJ
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Re: Renewing the Moderation?

Postby Magnus Anderson » Fri Apr 30, 2021 3:44 pm

encode_decode wrote:Something to think about is this: asking for perfect moderation is selfish because perfect moderation would be moderation that would only feel perfect due to it aligning with your own ideas of what good moderation is.


"Perfect moderation" refers to the kind of moderation that best serves a group of people. Of course, just because someone thinks that something is perfect does not mean that it is so.

The fact of the matter is moderating a forum would be awful and every user of the forum should understand that. How would you like to look through a bunch of threads that probably don't interest you? How many threads are there that you don't even bother taking a look at and why don't you look at them? Answer this question and you will soon come to realize how awful moderation would be. This is perhaps the reason why many people are not coming forward applying for the position of moderator and if it is not for this reason then I would suggest someone who glorifies the idea of moderation in their mind to think about it


I don't think anyone is suggesting that people should be forced to moderate against their will. If you find it awful to moderate, don't moderate. If people think they can't moderate all discussions, let them moderate only those discussions they want to moderate.

But this is typical of this day and age that people just come to expect! Some of us call it the "me me me" syndrome".
Others simply refer to it as "entitlement".


Or it might be the case that people want to put all of their energy in making things better as opposed to preserving them in their inferior state.
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Re: Renewing the Moderation?

Postby encode_decode » Fri Apr 30, 2021 3:55 pm

Magnus Anderson wrote:Perfect moderation" refers to the kind of moderation that best serves a group of people. Of course, just because someone thinks that something is perfect does not mean that it is so.

Mmm hmm. I am not 100% sure about this but I think you may have missed my point Magnus.

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