Is there a procedure?

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Is there a procedure?

Postby Mowk » Sun Dec 06, 2020 4:45 am

To formally challenge what another member accuses a member here of?

The notion of the truth or whether it is merely a difference in opinion? First amendment, the right to an opinion. Does that extend to expressing opinions regarding something untrue? I don't think that is covered under our first amendment, what are our rules here, as we are sort of multinational and I'm not aware of what is a right in another country, or if someone lives somewhere but they are a citizen from somewhere else?

Evidence. And what can be inferred from such evidence or the lack there of. Some might have these records if they took place, and they didn't delete them. Is there a record in a back-up. I am told back-ups are performed routinely.

I'm just getting tired again, of a lack of civility of late.

Man you want to quote an example of me lacking civility here I'll apologize for it right here and now, and mean it. And damn straight, try not to do it again.

Can some tribunal be arranged where I might be formally charged, presented with evidence, be judged by my peers on that evidence and what can be argued inferred from it, and do what ever time, if I did the crime?

Perhaps maybe touching on what civil recompense there would be for false accusers?
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Re: Is there a procedure?

Postby Mowk » Sun Dec 06, 2020 4:56 am

We are a sort of collection, all members with at least that commonality, I would dare to say we might even be considered a union. We have our extreme and centrist opinions that's for certain. What are we going to accept as evidence?

Can we we feign to play some jurisprudence here?

It's not good enough if someone is just left to walk away. A board warning is in order... :LOL:

If MagsJ has deleted the records in her UCP maybe Carleas still has a record of it, MagsJ was a moderator at that time.

There is a record of my conversation with Carleas where MagsJ came up in the conversation. There is likely a record of the discussion between MagsJ and Carleas as well. I will not post the contents of that conversation unless Carleas agrees to it but I do think it is pertinent.

Any thing I've said to MagsJ has been done in public. The record exists. In this context I ain't just chumming the water.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nrIPxlFzDi0
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Re: Is there a procedure?

Postby Mowk » Mon Dec 07, 2020 2:06 am

So can anyone here point to what a PM is and where you can get a record of what you've sent and what you received?

Show me your evidence MagsJ, that I've ever sent you PM's. The extent of your bitch with me can be found here:
https://www.ilovephilosophy.com/viewtop ... 6&t=195255
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Re: Is there a procedure?

Postby Meno_ » Mon Dec 07, 2020 2:45 am

Found myself incidentally mentioned, probably caused by a sudden memory loss, decompensated for some, reason 4 others, even more of a question mark


I don't see if there is some procedure to separate farce from a force of uncommic* irony, but that is exactly what will happen when and if lawyer tries
to use it in this context, .

*uncommic in this context is not related to 'commies' or ' mimics' or any other labeling
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Re: Is there a procedure?

Postby Carleas » Mon Dec 07, 2020 3:23 am

So Mags said here that you sent abusive PMs "some years back", and provides no additional details or evidence. That's the issue? And you want a way to clear your name?

So, as to technical measures, e.g. backups etc: there isn't anything that's going to satisfy what you're looking for. Backups aren't stored for very long, they're for restoring the site in the event of a catastrophic failure, so they aren't likely to cover the right time period and they aren't easily accessible or easily perused. Moreover, there's no specific accusation, Mags has basically said that you did something bad one time and she won't say when or go into detail about the bad thing so I wouldn't know when to look or what to look for even if I knew that the information could definitely be found somewhere that was easy to search.

As to other forms of redress, I think you're going to be disappointed there too. There are a lot of reasons this situation might come up. Mags may be lying, or you may be. Mags may be mistaken, or you may be. Both of you may be remembering correctly and just interpreting the exchange differently. Mags has made a vague and unsupported accusation, in my opinion that shouldn't count for much. But I don't have a way of showing that she's right or wrong or forcing her to put up evidence or details. If she keeps pressing it, I'd consider it ad hominem in the sense we use it (literally of course, but also just personally attacking and off-topic). If she lets it stand as is, I don't think it rises to anything more than "kind of uncool).

I'm sorry if this is unsatisfying, and I understand why you are frustrated, but I also hope you understand why this is as impossible a question to resolve for me as it is for anyone else. Once we've ruled out the instant replay, it's just word against word.
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Re: Is there a procedure?

Postby Mowk » Mon Dec 07, 2020 4:50 am

Thanks Carleas, I am not easily satisfied.

My UCP does not support her claims, Our conversation is there. Likely your conversation with her is still in your record. Your conversation with me is likely still in your record as well. I still have a copy of our conversation in mine.

I feel, based on the string of events themselves that have taken place and without her ability to support her claim with any evidence at all, that we can conclude, it simply was an ad hominem attack on my character, and a warning is in order.

I was not asking you to look back into the records to support my claims, I was asking you to look back in the records to support her claim, if she lacked the evidence to support her accusation, I thought you might have a copy that would support her "story".

Let me summarize: MagsJ makes a claim about something I supposedly have done, she can't back it up with any evidence and you can't either. From my perspective it never happened, from MagsJ she could have imagined it, Yet lets place what she said back into context:


MagsJ wrote:I ain’t American dude!

You’re a nasty little man.. you wouldn’t survive here.

I remember the DMs you used to send me.. they were evil.

I barely interacted with you, and yet you spewed venom at me, for no reason at all.

What a vile creature you are. Stay in your lane.


Not only false but clearly way beyond anything that could be considered civil discourse.

No evidence to support her claim, an ad hominen attack and just flat out lacking in any respect for civility.

Her PM to me. The only PM exchanged.

MagsJ wrote:Board warning issued

Sent: Sat Oct 05, 2019 1:36 am
From: MagsJ
To: Mowk
The following is a warning which has been issued to you by an administrator or moderator of this site.

For calculated baiting and ad hom, in this thread: viewtopic.php?style=9&f=10&t=182173

MagsJ
The Londonist: a chic geek


Yes, I find it frustrating. Found it, find it and will, in the future.

False claims, no evidence to support them, and clearly lacking in any civility. Strike one, two and three. Three strikes in ninety days and you're out a here for a week, What happens if they all take place in the matter of a day?

And while you are at it, take a good look at her circle and the others cheering her on. Some fuck starts a rumor and pretty soon they have a cheerleader. Willing to rip someone a new one on account of mistaken identity, and people crank that shit up here. will it continue Carleas? I support free speech, the right to an opnion, but let's exercise some discernment.
Philosophy:
Metaphysics (the true nature of reality)
Epistemology (the true nature of knowledge and belief)
Politics (how humans function within a society)
Ethics (values and decision making process)
Esthetics (the nature of beauty and art)

Arguably there are others but slice or dice the core.

Politics, it turns out, should be first on the list, followed by ethics, precisely for how we process our value based decisions on how we behave.
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Re: Is there a procedure?

Postby Mowk » Mon Dec 07, 2020 5:50 am

Kind of uncool?

Postby MagsJ » Fri Dec 04, 2020 1:56 pm

Mowk wrote:
Shit girl, you've stumped me.

My turn to ask.... WHAT?

Seriously, draw me a map, someone. Where in my posts on this thread did this take place, and what is a DM?

How long has it been?


Mowk wrote:
Everyone speculate please. Help me out as to what that rant was all about.


If you can’t remember it, it never happened right? Wrong!


I’ll reply to your edited-out initial reply: No! I wasn’t watching and waiting on, what everyone else was watching and waiting on.. do tell me why I should have been, or why you thought I was?


She doesn't have any evidence for this claim either. I didn't edit a post, prior to hers.

So where did that fantasy come from? More and more....



I am not finished yet. Or, I was done before I started.
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Re: Is there a procedure?

Postby Mowk » Tue Dec 08, 2020 2:49 am

Kind of uncool? That's the philosophical benchmark? The Fonz, and MagsJ is kind of uncool? But just kind of?
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Re: Is there a procedure?

Postby Carleas » Tue Dec 08, 2020 5:55 am

Mowk wrote:Kind of uncool? That's the philosophical benchmark? The Fonz, and MagsJ is kind of uncool? But just kind of?

I agree that was flip of me.

I should also say that it's only "kinda uncool" from my perspective. You're alleging a specific set of events that would make it deeply uncool, I don't deny that. But I have less access to information than you or Mags do; there's a lot of uncertainty from my perspective, and the sum across that uncertainty is roughly "kind of uncool".

And that's about right for how I should treat it. The bad thing that Mags has done is make a vague and unsupported accusation that your behavior in private is abusive.
There are situations where that's antisocial, and there are situations where it's easily justified, and I don't know which we're in. What seems kinda uncool is that Mags could elaborate and resolve some uncertainty and doesn't. That's her right, and it may be justified, but that set of situations is narrow.

But I would also hope that anyone reading the accusation as it stands would take it as it stands. I don't think people will presume one way or the other, and I don't think whatever they do presume will substantially impact your life.
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Re: Is there a procedure?

Postby Mowk » Wed Dec 09, 2020 4:40 am

I should also say that it's only "kinda uncool" from my perspective. You're alleging a specific set of events that would make it deeply uncool, I don't deny that. But I have less access to information than you or Mags do; there's a lot of uncertainty from my perspective, and the sum across that uncertainty is roughly "kind of uncool".

If there is access you require, that I have, ask and I will provide it.

I will provide what ever access you require.

And that's about right for how I should treat it.


That is of course, your choice, your site, your domain, your bill. There is nothing to argue there.

I will continue to argue MagsJ's behavior went past the rules you have posted for this forum. Claims made as fact that she can't provide any evidence of, you can't provide any evidence to support and the record of my use of personal messaging.

But I would also hope that anyone reading the accusation as it stands would take it as it stands. I don't think people will presume one way or the other, and I don't think whatever they do presume will substantially impact your life.


That and a prayer? People already have presumed one way and not another, you going to quote me some percentages on that prediction? If I were a betting man, how many points would you give me?

I don't think whatever they do presume will substantially impact your life.


Hey it still hurts how ever insignificant you think the claim, and I'm not so certain you have a real handle on what is life, at least given your recently stated perspective.

Given the nature of your "boilerplate rules", you put them out there, as half ass conceived as you have admitted. But you did put them out there regardless. I'd think you'd own that.

The facts available before us, the record of the posts, the order and what was posted.

You know, I'm just not agreeing with your dismissal of MagsJ's behavior.

I don't think whatever they do presume will substantially impact your life.


I don't think you realize how inadequate a statement that was.
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Re: Is there a procedure?

Postby Mowk » Wed Dec 09, 2020 4:59 am

That's the issue? And you want a way to clear your name?


Sounds sort of trivial the way you say it.

But it's the "only one" I've got here on ILP. Allowances for all sock puppetry included. Allowance for all inaccurate identifications. Me, here, Isn't that what a member here is? There is just no reason to support a bully intellect on a philosophy forum.

MagsJ shouldn't be allowed to argue as "reason" something that didn't take place. She can hold what ever opinion of me she wants by she should not be allowed to attempt to back it up with lies. I find there remains significant distinction between opinion and truth. Let us do all we can to not mistake one for the other.
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Re: Is there a procedure?

Postby Mowk » Wed Dec 09, 2020 5:13 am

There are situations where that's antisocial, and there are situations where it's easily justified, and I don't know which we're in. What seems kinda uncool is that Mags could elaborate and resolve some uncertainty and doesn't. That's her right, and it may be justified, but that set of situations is narrow.


She has no right at all to lie about what someone else has done. She has presented no evidence that is the fact. If she has reasons yet doesn't elaborate, that doesn't change what has taken place. You present a hypothetical in place of what this web site recorded as a string of events over time with a chronology.

We have a record of the posts in the thread and what has been said in each, there is an order to them, and the site records any edits made to them. Lacking any other evidence to the contrary what is wrong with the evidence we have? Unverifiable speculation aside.

It is the data we have.
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Re: Is there a procedure?

Postby Mowk » Wed Dec 09, 2020 6:15 am

What's up?

Let's pause here for a moment and take a look. I thought you were playing the judge, Who's the judge if you are playing the role of lawyer for the defense?

I asked earlier if jurisprudence could take place here.
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Re: Is there a procedure?

Postby Pedro I Rengel » Wed Dec 09, 2020 7:14 am

At least you are letting off the steam here and not spamming a lady's inbox.
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Re: Is there a procedure?

Postby Mowk » Thu Dec 10, 2020 3:20 am

Pedro I Rengel wrote:At least you are letting off the steam here and not spamming a lady's inbox.


Prove it. Provide one shred of evidence it ever happened.

Carleas, what have you allowed?
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Re: Is there a procedure?

Postby Pedro I Rengel » Thu Dec 10, 2020 3:22 am

My proof is this thread. You are blowing off your steam here.
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Re: Is there a procedure?

Postby Pedro I Rengel » Thu Dec 10, 2020 3:23 am

Instead of spamming a lady's inbox.
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Re: Is there a procedure?

Postby Mowk » Thu Dec 10, 2020 3:26 am

Pedro I Rengel wrote:Instead of spamming a lady's inbox.


Again, I must ask you provide any evidence. Failing that, It's like your participation in our election. Moot.

You serve no point here Pedro.
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Re: Is there a procedure?

Postby Pedro I Rengel » Thu Dec 10, 2020 3:27 am

Aren't multiple accounts also against forum policy?
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Re: Is there a procedure?

Postby Pedro I Rengel » Thu Dec 10, 2020 3:27 am

Mowk wrote:
Pedro I Rengel wrote:Instead of spamming a lady's inbox.


Again, I must ask you provide any evidence. Failing that, It's like your participation in our election. Moot.


There's elections coming up in Canada?

I can vote in the regional, but not the federal.
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Re: Is there a procedure?

Postby Mowk » Thu Dec 10, 2020 3:29 am

Pedro I Rengel wrote:Aren't multiple accounts also against forum policy?


No they are not. At least Carleas allows them.

I continue to believe it is a poor choice.
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Re: Is there a procedure?

Postby Pedro I Rengel » Thu Dec 10, 2020 3:29 am

Maybe you should just stick with one then.

Otherwise it sort of stinks of dishonesty doesn't it.
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Re: Is there a procedure?

Postby Mowk » Thu Dec 10, 2020 3:30 am

I can vote in the regional, but not the federal.

I suggest you participate in what ever you have a right to.
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Re: Is there a procedure?

Postby Pedro I Rengel » Thu Dec 10, 2020 3:31 am

My rights are given to me by God.
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Re: Is there a procedure?

Postby Pedro I Rengel » Thu Dec 10, 2020 3:32 am

You are a subject of the British Queen.

You are owned by a person.
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