Don't feed a troll

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Re: Don't feed a troll

Postby Mr Reasonable » Wed Dec 02, 2020 3:41 am

ecmandu as soon as you said "cosmic reconstruction" you lost another debate
You see...a pimp's love is very different from that of a square.


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Re: Don't feed a troll

Postby Ecmandu » Wed Dec 02, 2020 6:19 am

Mr Reasonable wrote:ecmandu as soon as you said "cosmic reconstruction" you lost another debate


You have zero percent access to the spirit world of the cosmos (that you know of); I have 100% access that I do know of:

We live very different lives.

It’s actually not your fault right now that you don’t experience any of those things; it’s also not your fault that I experience 100% of those things.

I think we should leave it there.
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Re: Don't feed a troll

Postby Karpel Tunnel » Wed Dec 02, 2020 9:14 am

Even if you are wrong: even if the other person is not a troll when you think they are....
I think it is good to at least take breaks from the interaction. Perhaps weeks or months or permanent.
Why?
Because if you think they are a troll, you must be experiencing the back and forth as not getting anywhere. You are not learning about philosophy or even getting the chance to hone any skills.

If all those discussions stopped or had big pauses, there would be less dead ends.

I wonder what the reasons are for continuing discussions with trolls:

It feels wrong to leave something one considers dumb or immoral unanswered?
It might allow the troll to think they won the argument since you did not respond?
The last thing they said pissed you off and to not respond would cause some kind of emotional pain?
You have to set off a warning signal in relation to 3rd parties about the idiocy or immorality or poor posting practices of the troll?

Something else?

I don't think those are good reasons to continue.

For example, the idea that one cannot let things stand or must warn others.....
people will figure it out
all these dialogues are not read by many and wither into time

or, that the troll will think they won or you could not counter their last post....
1) trolls can manage not to learn or admit anything forever. if this is a concern you will meet by posting, you are married to the troll.
2) what a troll thinks probably does not mean much.
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Re: Don't feed a troll

Postby MagsJ » Wed Dec 02, 2020 10:15 am

Karpel Tunnel wrote:..trolls can manage not to learn or admit anything forever. if this is a concern you will meet by posting, you are married to the troll.

..then you are married to Iambiguous and Ecamandu.. congratulations buddy. :)
The possibility of anything we can imagine existing is endless and infinite.. - MagsJ
I haven't got the time to spend the time reading something that is telling me nothing, as I will never be able to get back that time, and I may need it for something at some point in time.. Huh! - MagsJ
You’re suggestions and I, just simply don’t mix.. like oil on water, or a really bad DJ - MagsJ
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Re: Don't feed a troll

Postby Karpel Tunnel » Wed Dec 02, 2020 11:54 am

MagsJ wrote:
Karpel Tunnel wrote:..trolls can manage not to learn or admit anything forever. if this is a concern you will meet by posting, you are married to the troll.

..then you are married to Iambiguous and Ecamandu.. congratulations buddy. :)
I don't respond to them. I can't read their posts. Though I really don't know if I consider Ecmandu a troll. On the other hand I am not sure discussions with him can get anywhere after you understand his positions. I put no energy in getting either of them to understand something. I have no interest in countering what they say and I can't see what they say.

But hey, anyone getting anything out of any interaction, is obviously free to continue it.

I wonder, sometimes, if it simply feels wrong to leave some insult or ridiculous response standing. Like we feel an internal pressure to correct, show we do not accept their point, can rebut, etc.

I think that urge, while completely understandible, need not be followed through on. Because it is clear that yet another response will come...
and then that one will 'need' a response.

Or they might interpret a lack of response as a victory. (I have seen that happen also).

My response is....so what.

Other people's interpretations and self-congratulatory wanking are not really our purview. And we can't control them. And if we have decided someone is a troll, then by definition we are not expecting their next response to include a concession, admission, change in approach, sudden respect, consideration, good faith argument and so on.

We EXPECT the next response to be similar to the one we just responded to...and so it too wil require are response'...and then the next...ad infinitum.
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Re: Don't feed a troll

Postby Ecmandu » Wed Dec 02, 2020 4:57 pm

And Karpel is a perfect example of why I don’t ignore people. He’s missed my last year of posts. It’s too much of a bother to go through them at this point (I wouldn’t do it), so they are lost to him. He has no fucking clue what I’ve moved towards, not the slightest.

People change Karpel. Going through the muck is worth it. Going through the muck is not ignoring people. How long have I not ignored someone? Let me think... easily over 20 years now. Two decades. I’ll talk to anyone. I actually say this to shame people who are rigid enough to not have that level of curiosity .
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Re: Don't feed a troll

Postby iambiguous » Wed Dec 02, 2020 7:29 pm

Karpel Tunnel wrote:..trolls can manage not to learn or admit anything forever. if this is a concern you will meet by posting, you are married to the troll.


..then you are married to Iambiguous and Ecamandu.. congratulations buddy. :)


For me [of late] it's not trolls I don't feed but those for whom I have little or no respect in regard to their intelligence.

Of course that's even more subjective.

I still read KT however because I do respect his intelligence. And in regard to any number of topics.

And I think that, in some regards, he respects my intelligence too.

Instead, in regard to his own "sense of self" -- as that relates to value judgments -- he feels as threatened by me as the objectivists.

But why? I think it is because he has somehow managed to convince himself that there does in fact exist a "visceral/intuitive/deep-down-inside-me" Self that allows him to keep a safe distance from my own "fractured and fragmented" "I".

I threaten that somehow.

But he claims that is not the case.

But he won't take the components of his own moral philosophy and compare and contrast them with the components of mine in regard to a particular set of circumstances involving conflicting goods.
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

Start here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=176529
Then here: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=185296
And here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=194382
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Re: Don't feed a troll

Postby Ecmandu » Wed Dec 02, 2020 9:14 pm

The moral nihilists are both afraid of me here:

Iambiguous and Karpel.

They’ve built cocoons around themselves with moral nihilism, “the correct way to think”...

Life is much scarier (And exponentially harder - no laziness there) in many respects for someone who has to think morality.

Morality is an almost endless job... slaving away for decades to solve one problem; like like math proofs... it’s blood sweat and tears the whole way. They quit the job, and then sit on what they believe are perches (because they stopped doing philosophic work decades ago) and cast stones about not being able to converse with people because they have no worthy intellect.

Difference between people like Karpel and Iambiguous and I is that I haven’t ‘given up’. Moral nihilism is a set of about 10 sentences that you can repeat forever.

Let’s use math as an example:

Every number can only be discerned from a continuum, so how is any number really a number?

I can say this forever. It’s lazy.

These men are lazy. And while they’re being lazy, people working really hard keep discovering math proofs.
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Re: Don't feed a troll

Postby Karpel Tunnel » Thu Dec 03, 2020 1:13 am

How would you deal with a troll IRL? If they were not at your workplace or God forbid in your nearest family?
Would you maintain the conversation? Would you avoid talkign to them?
What if at gatherings when you criticized them more of the gathering focused on them and their issues and behavior?
But if you did not criticize them, but rather engaged in conversations with other people at the gathers what you consider trolling took up less space at the gathering?
And this cuts all ways. Perhaps someone thinks X is a troll and X experiences a repetitive, boggy non-discussion with them because of this. What's X's motivation for engaging eternally? It can't be philosophy.
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Re: Don't feed a troll

Postby Ecmandu » Thu Dec 03, 2020 1:28 am

Karpel Tunnel wrote:How would you deal with a troll IRL? If they were not at your workplace or God forbid in your nearest family?
Would you maintain the conversation? Would you avoid talkign to them?
What if at gatherings when you criticized them more of the gathering focused on them and their issues and behavior?
But if you did not criticize them, but rather engaged in conversations with other people at the gathers what you consider trolling took up less space at the gathering?
And this cuts all ways. Perhaps someone thinks X is a troll and X experiences a repetitive, boggy non-discussion with them because of this. What's X's motivation for engaging eternally? It can't be philosophy.


Philosophy is exactly what it is. If you can’t handle a troll, just words in a paper, then the magnitude of existence is not for you.

Over the past couple decades of being someone nobody wanted to hear from, I became someone that people want to hear from.

There was no magic potion I swallowed, I just refused to ignore people. On a spirit level it hurts and it hurts a lot ... but here I am, a survivor ...

If I can make it through, you can too
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Re: Don't feed a troll

Postby Mr Reasonable » Thu Dec 03, 2020 4:15 am

Ecmandu wrote:
Mr Reasonable wrote:ecmandu as soon as you said "cosmic reconstruction" you lost another debate


You have zero percent access to the spirit world of the cosmos (that you know of); I have 100% access that I do know of:

We live very different lives.

It’s actually not your fault right now that you don’t experience any of those things; it’s also not your fault that I experience 100% of those things.

I think we should leave it there.



you just lost again
You see...a pimp's love is very different from that of a square.


Dating a stripper is like eating a noisy bag of chips in church. Everyone looks at you in disgust, but deep down they want some too.
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Re: Don't feed a troll

Postby Karpel Tunnel » Thu Dec 03, 2020 4:52 am

Mr Reasonable wrote:
Ecmandu wrote:
Mr Reasonable wrote:ecmandu as soon as you said "cosmic reconstruction" you lost another debate


You have zero percent access to the spirit world of the cosmos (that you know of); I have 100% access that I do know of:

We live very different lives.

It’s actually not your fault right now that you don’t experience any of those things; it’s also not your fault that I experience 100% of those things.

I think we should leave it there.



you just lost again
Case in point.
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Re: Don't feed a troll

Postby Mr Reasonable » Thu Dec 03, 2020 4:55 am

exactly. blabbering some shit about who has what access to the cosmos. there is no place on earth where this should be taken as anything other than complete bullshit
You see...a pimp's love is very different from that of a square.


Dating a stripper is like eating a noisy bag of chips in church. Everyone looks at you in disgust, but deep down they want some too.
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Re: Don't feed a troll

Postby Karpel Tunnel » Thu Dec 03, 2020 5:20 am

Mr Reasonable wrote:exactly. blabbering some shit about who has what access to the cosmos. there is no place on earth where this should be taken as anything other than complete bullshit
And your motivation for responding to him which leads him to post more of what you consider shit is....?
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Re: Don't feed a troll

Postby Mr Reasonable » Thu Dec 03, 2020 6:40 am

he promised to accept a permaban if he lost a debate and he has lost it and i want him to permaban himself
You see...a pimp's love is very different from that of a square.


Dating a stripper is like eating a noisy bag of chips in church. Everyone looks at you in disgust, but deep down they want some too.
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Re: Don't feed a troll

Postby Mr Reasonable » Thu Dec 03, 2020 6:42 am

i mean right now the site is like 3 crazy brainwashed trumpers, a kook who blabbers about being in touch with the cosmos, a guy who thinks everyone is an objectivist except him, i mean who could actually look around here and feel as though there was any expectation that they carry on normal discourse or have any kind of serious conversation?
You see...a pimp's love is very different from that of a square.


Dating a stripper is like eating a noisy bag of chips in church. Everyone looks at you in disgust, but deep down they want some too.
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Re: Don't feed a troll

Postby Mr Reasonable » Thu Dec 03, 2020 6:42 am

given the current makeup of active members here, seriously, how on earth could anyone who actually wanted to have a conversation about philosophy look at this and decide to stay?
You see...a pimp's love is very different from that of a square.


Dating a stripper is like eating a noisy bag of chips in church. Everyone looks at you in disgust, but deep down they want some too.
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Re: Don't feed a troll

Postby Karpel Tunnel » Thu Dec 03, 2020 7:27 am

Mr Reasonable wrote:given the current makeup of active members here, seriously, how on earth could anyone who actually wanted to have a conversation about philosophy look at this and decide to stay?

Good point, lol. That said, one can find stuff in the cracks, and....what's the motivation for engaging with someone who will respond and will repeat or create precisely more of the same?

In a way I am wondering if reduction in response to dead end conversations might make a more philosophical forum. I do think responding to dead end conversation contributes to the deterioration.

People could turn towards posts that offer the best chance of real dialogue and ignore posts that they pretty much KNOW will not lead to it.
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Re: Don't feed a troll

Postby Mr J » Thu Dec 03, 2020 8:49 am

Mr Reasonable wrote:i mean right now the site is like 3 crazy brainwashed trumpers, a kook who blabbers about being in touch with the cosmos, a guy who thinks everyone is an objectivist except him, i mean who could actually look around here and feel as though there was any expectation that they carry on normal discourse or have any kind of serious conversation?


Well, there's that philosophical pimp or gigolo that lived in Alabama once, so there's that too. [Relocated to Texas?]

I like to think of this site as the philosophy forum of fringe thinkers and crackpots myself, kinda like a cyber tea table of the Mad Hatter in an Alice In Wonderland novel.
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Re: Don't feed a troll

Postby Mr J » Thu Dec 03, 2020 8:55 am

Karpel Tunnel wrote:
Mr Reasonable wrote:given the current makeup of active members here, seriously, how on earth could anyone who actually wanted to have a conversation about philosophy look at this and decide to stay?

Good point, lol. That said, one can find stuff in the cracks, and....what's the motivation for engaging with someone who will respond and will repeat or create precisely more of the same?

In a way I am wondering if reduction in response to dead end conversations might make a more philosophical forum. I do think responding to dead end conversation contributes to the deterioration.

People could turn towards posts that offer the best chance of real dialogue and ignore posts that they pretty much KNOW will not lead to it.


Everybody ignores my posts, what gives? :-k
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Re: Don't feed a troll

Postby Karpel Tunnel » Thu Dec 03, 2020 1:44 pm

Zero_Sum wrote:Everybody ignores my posts, what gives? :-k
Hey, I dunno. But some potential factors: 1) as what would be classed as a conspiracy theorist, you set yourself apart from much of the right and left. 2) Since you don't like Trump, you alienate many on the right who might otherwise find at least some of your positions interesting. 3)Rooting for the collapse is taboo. 4) I think the closest potential poster to you is Gloominary. He is towards the right, but is critical of the rich getting richer. He would be classed as a conspiracy theorist. But his posts are not ignored and yours are, according to you. I think Gloominary might be putting more effort into interacting with the other posters than you do. You're a bit of a prophet of doom with a smile. He's more concerned about the upcoming potential events. I think that allows a connection and a negotiation area.
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Re: Don't feed a troll

Postby Pedro I Rengel » Thu Dec 03, 2020 3:40 pm

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Re: Don't feed a troll

Postby Mr J » Thu Dec 03, 2020 6:01 pm

Karpel Tunnel wrote:
Zero_Sum wrote:Everybody ignores my posts, what gives? :-k
Hey, I dunno. But some potential factors: 1) as what would be classed as a conspiracy theorist, you set yourself apart from much of the right and left. 2) Since you don't like Trump, you alienate many on the right who might otherwise find at least some of your positions interesting. 3)Rooting for the collapse is taboo. 4) I think the closest potential poster to you is Gloominary. He is towards the right, but is critical of the rich getting richer. He would be classed as a conspiracy theorist. But his posts are not ignored and yours are, according to you. I think Gloominary might be putting more effort into interacting with the other posters than you do. You're a bit of a prophet of doom with a smile. He's more concerned about the upcoming potential events. I think that allows a connection and a negotiation area.


1) It's because the right and left in this country are really just controlled by the same people who hold all the financial strings. It's interesting people refuse to see all the ongoing conspiracies around us.

2) I'm pretty much an economic socialist but conservative on every other issue, so economically left but otherwise right on everything else. For some odd reason if you're a conservative today especially in the United States you're suppose to hate all things economically socialist and embrace our wonderful crony capitalist system. It's pretty much economy and the division of labor that separates me away from a majority of other conservatives basically. I really don't buy into the libertarian economic mindset, never really had.

3) It's taboo but for me it's the only way forward to any kind of meaningful change, we're beyond political reform now. We're beyond hope and redemption.

4) Yeah, Gloominary is cool, it's just that he has more faith in humanity than I do in that I've almost lost all faith altogether thinking more on the lines of us just being eternally doomed.
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Re: Don't feed a troll

Postby iambiguous » Thu Dec 03, 2020 6:56 pm

shit smears wrote:.... a guy who thinks everyone is an objectivist except him, i mean who could actually look around here and feel as though there was any expectation that they carry on normal discourse or have any kind of serious conversation?


First of all, when waiting for godot, one is permitted to engage in futile efforts such as the following. After all, for godot, everything is more or less interchangeable in an essentially meaningless existence that ends in oblivion for all of eternity.

So, in this entirely futile attempt, I will try to set the record straight.

Now, let's begin by noting this observation from Shit Smears:

given the current makeup of active members here, seriously, how on earth could anyone who actually wanted to have a conversation about philosophy look at this and decide to stay?


That he and others who seem hell bent on turning ILP into just another yak yak yak social media cesspool are instrumental in bringing that about, he may or may not be indulging in actual irony. For all I know, he was sent here by Satyr.

Myself on the other hand, I make any number of attempts to steer discussions in the general direction of philosophy. On these threads for example:

https://www.ilovephilosophy.com/viewtop ... 1&t=170060
https://www.ilovephilosophy.com/viewtop ... 8&t=195930
https://www.ilovephilosophy.com/viewtop ... 8&t=196100
https://www.ilovephilosophy.com/viewtop ... 8&t=196110
https://www.ilovephilosophy.com/viewtop ... 1&t=175121
https://www.ilovephilosophy.com/viewtop ... 1&t=195600
https://www.ilovephilosophy.com/viewtop ... 1&t=176529
https://www.ilovephilosophy.com/viewtop ... 5&t=185296
https://www.ilovephilosophy.com/viewtop ... 1&t=175006
https://www.ilovephilosophy.com/viewtop ... 5&t=186929
https://www.ilovephilosophy.com/viewtop ... 1&t=195614
https://www.ilovephilosophy.com/viewtop ... 1&t=195964
https://www.ilovephilosophy.com/viewtop ... 5&t=185296
https://www.ilovephilosophy.com/viewtop ... 1&t=194382

The threads of a "troll" according to some here.

But, again, I know why the objectivists want me gone from ILP. As I have explained any number of times. But it is Karpel Tunnel/Moreno that most intrigues me. Again, for reasons that I also explained above.

Instead, he is quite content to encourage Mr. Social Media here to engage in what he seems to consider "normal discourse" and "serious conversation" in a philosophy venue. While Shit Smears himself seems more interested in continuing to champion himself as the man every woman wants and the man every other man wants to be.

And though we all might construe normal and serious philosophical discussions in different ways, only a fool in my view would insist that Shit Smears comes closer to it here than I do.
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

Start here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=176529
Then here: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=185296
And here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=194382
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Re: Don't feed a troll

Postby Pedro I Rengel » Thu Dec 03, 2020 7:08 pm

Settle down iam, Jesus...
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