Good News of the Kingdom

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Re: Good News of the Kingdom

Postby felix dakat » Sat Feb 12, 2022 4:33 pm

MagsJ wrote:
felix dakat wrote:Feelings unconsciously steer thought. Existential philosophy took mood into its anaylsis beginning with Kierkegaard and elaborated by Heidegger in Being and Time. Not to mention Freud and Jung and the philosophical reflection they inspired. Now cognitive and neuro science is catching up.

https://youtu.be/qv5KPN-_WSw

The meditative mind differentiates much.. akin to not mixing business/thought with pleasure/feeling.


To me that sounds like meditation in the service of denial. Overwhelming evidence shows that reason and emotion go hand-in-hand. Reason is only possible if emotion is present.
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Re: Good News of the Kingdom

Postby Ichthus77 » Sat Feb 12, 2022 4:39 pm

I agree with both.
Fall semester ends 12/16/22. Apologies if I do not reply immediately.

“In choosing myself, I choose the other.”
- A marriage of Sartre & Levinas

“ Gloria Dei est vivens homo. “
Trans.: The glory of God is man fully alive.
- Irenaeus
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Re: Good News of the Kingdom

Postby MagsJ » Sat Feb 12, 2022 4:45 pm

felix dakat wrote:
MagsJ wrote:
felix dakat wrote:Feelings unconsciously steer thought. Existential philosophy took mood into its anaylsis beginning with Kierkegaard and elaborated by Heidegger in Being and Time. Not to mention Freud and Jung and the philosophical reflection they inspired. Now cognitive and neuro science is catching up.

https://youtu.be/qv5KPN-_WSw

The meditative mind differentiates much.. akin to not mixing business/thought with pleasure/feeling.

To me that sounds like meditation in the service of denial. Overwhelming evidence shows that reason and emotion go hand-in-hand. Reason is only possible if emotion is present.

We all have differing world views and a different place from where we intrinsically see and then operate from, now.. when in social mode, that’s a different situation and mindset altogether.

I’m not an extrovert, and sometimes only a part-time ambivert.. so what does that leave? :-s

I have agape! my kingdom of ends.
The possibility of anything we can imagine existing is endless and infinite.. ~MagsJ

I haven't got the time to spend the time reading something that is telling me nothing, as I will never be able to get back that time, and I may need it for something important at some point in time.. Huh!? ~MagsJ

You’re suggestions and I just simply don’t mix.. like oil on water, or a very bad DJ ~MagsJ

Examine what is said, not him who speaks ~Arab proverb

aes Sanātana Dharma Pali: the eternal way ~it should not be rigid, but inclusive of the best of all knowledge for the sake of Ṛta.. which is endless.
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Re: Good News of the Kingdom

Postby felix dakat » Sat Feb 12, 2022 5:11 pm

MagsJ wrote:We all have differing world views and a different place from where we intrinsically see and then operate from, now.. when in social mode, that’s a different situation and mindset altogether.

I’m not an extrovert, and sometimes only a part-time ambivert.. so what does that leave? :-s

I have agape!


Here’s a proposition: all thought is embodied thought. Now a thinker may not be aware of that fact at any moment. She might be “lost in thought“. Nevertheless she is embodied. Even in the so-called out-of-body experience the experience or imagines an astral body.

Some of the confusion seems to revolve around the experience of projection through which we can imagine ourselves to be all kinds of entities be they animate or inanimate, conscious or unconscious. In the imagination we give them consciousness and a point of view. In other words we imagine ourselves embodied in them. These imaginative experiences only serve to confirm the fact that all thought is embodied.
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Re: Good News of the Kingdom

Postby felix dakat » Sat Feb 12, 2022 5:20 pm

MagsJ wrote:
I have agape! my kingdom of ends.


According to Kant who coined the expression, you as an individual are an “end” and a universal morality recognizes this for every individual and thus the moral universe is a kingdom of ends.
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Re: Good News of the Kingdom

Postby Ichthus77 » Sat Feb 12, 2022 5:26 pm

I have studied that a little bit and I’m really looking forward to studying it more this semester.
Fall semester ends 12/16/22. Apologies if I do not reply immediately.

“In choosing myself, I choose the other.”
- A marriage of Sartre & Levinas

“ Gloria Dei est vivens homo. “
Trans.: The glory of God is man fully alive.
- Irenaeus
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Re: Good News of the Kingdom

Postby felix dakat » Sat Feb 12, 2022 5:26 pm

Ichthus77 wrote:I agree with both.



Sorry for the digression. But honestly I don’t know what the thread is if not a series of digressions including most notably your own.
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Re: Good News of the Kingdom

Postby MagsJ » Sat Feb 12, 2022 6:03 pm

felix dakat wrote:
MagsJ wrote:We all have differing world views and a different place from where we intrinsically see and then operate from, now.. when in social mode, that’s a different situation and mindset altogether.

I’m not an extrovert, and sometimes only a part-time ambivert.. so what does that leave? :-s

I have agape!

Here’s a proposition: all thought is embodied thought. Now a thinker may not be aware of that fact at any moment. She might be “lost in thought“. Nevertheless she is embodied. Even in the so-called out-of-body experience the experience or imagines an astral body.

By embodied, are you inferring 'within'?

Some of the confusion seems to revolve around the experience of projection through which we can imagine ourselves to be all kinds of entities be they animate or inanimate, conscious or unconscious. In the imagination we give them consciousness and a point of view. In other words we imagine ourselves embodied in them. These imaginative experiences only serve to confirm the fact that all thought is embodied.

Confusion for who/whom?

What is imagination, to you? Does the 'imagined' start and stop there, for you?
The possibility of anything we can imagine existing is endless and infinite.. ~MagsJ

I haven't got the time to spend the time reading something that is telling me nothing, as I will never be able to get back that time, and I may need it for something important at some point in time.. Huh!? ~MagsJ

You’re suggestions and I just simply don’t mix.. like oil on water, or a very bad DJ ~MagsJ

Examine what is said, not him who speaks ~Arab proverb

aes Sanātana Dharma Pali: the eternal way ~it should not be rigid, but inclusive of the best of all knowledge for the sake of Ṛta.. which is endless.
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Re: Good News of the Kingdom

Postby Ichthus77 » Sat Feb 12, 2022 6:09 pm

ICYMI
Ichthus77 wrote:Nobody does philosophy (or anything else) without caring. What is needed is caring balanced by reason and understanding (each member of the three checking and balancing each other member).


the digressions are synthesized here^
Fall semester ends 12/16/22. Apologies if I do not reply immediately.

“In choosing myself, I choose the other.”
- A marriage of Sartre & Levinas

“ Gloria Dei est vivens homo. “
Trans.: The glory of God is man fully alive.
- Irenaeus
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Re: Good News of the Kingdom

Postby Ichthus77 » Sat Feb 12, 2022 6:11 pm

Imagination/Judgment up top.
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Fall semester ends 12/16/22. Apologies if I do not reply immediately.

“In choosing myself, I choose the other.”
- A marriage of Sartre & Levinas

“ Gloria Dei est vivens homo. “
Trans.: The glory of God is man fully alive.
- Irenaeus
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Re: Good News of the Kingdom

Postby Ichthus77 » Sat Feb 12, 2022 6:12 pm

Fall semester ends 12/16/22. Apologies if I do not reply immediately.

“In choosing myself, I choose the other.”
- A marriage of Sartre & Levinas

“ Gloria Dei est vivens homo. “
Trans.: The glory of God is man fully alive.
- Irenaeus
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Re: Good News of the Kingdom

Postby MagsJ » Sat Feb 12, 2022 6:22 pm

felix dakat wrote:
MagsJ wrote:I have agape! my kingdom of ends.

According to Kant who coined the expression, you as an individual are an “end” and a universal morality recognizes this for every individual and thus the moral universe is a kingdom of ends.

Those who deny that a moral consensus exists, obviously don’t want a moral consensus to exist.. medical professionals that kill patients or divisive/psychotic people, come to mind.

I am not oblivious to most things.. moral, or otherwise.

Wanting to hurt/harm/kill the annoying/unconscientious/derisive is one thing, doing it.. another thing altogether. Leaving people be, is so under-rated these days.. good formal manners seems to be a thing of the past i.e… etiquette not abounding. [a general observation, only]
The possibility of anything we can imagine existing is endless and infinite.. ~MagsJ

I haven't got the time to spend the time reading something that is telling me nothing, as I will never be able to get back that time, and I may need it for something important at some point in time.. Huh!? ~MagsJ

You’re suggestions and I just simply don’t mix.. like oil on water, or a very bad DJ ~MagsJ

Examine what is said, not him who speaks ~Arab proverb

aes Sanātana Dharma Pali: the eternal way ~it should not be rigid, but inclusive of the best of all knowledge for the sake of Ṛta.. which is endless.
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Re: Good News of the Kingdom

Postby Ichthus77 » Sat Feb 12, 2022 6:41 pm

Felt that. Feel it a freaking lot these days. But it’s been going since… hm… darn near the first murder… prolly the first sin, really. And yeah. There’s always a first. Choice. Alienation. Has to be a real option, in order for love to be a real option. Thank God he (love) reconciles.
Fall semester ends 12/16/22. Apologies if I do not reply immediately.

“In choosing myself, I choose the other.”
- A marriage of Sartre & Levinas

“ Gloria Dei est vivens homo. “
Trans.: The glory of God is man fully alive.
- Irenaeus
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Re: Good News of the Kingdom

Postby iambiguous » Sat Feb 12, 2022 8:13 pm

phyllo wrote:
On the other hand, this is a philosophy venue. And thus to the best of our ability an effort should be made to provide as much detail and evidence as possible to back up our beliefs.
On a "philosophy venue", if we ask what sort of evidence you, specifically you, are looking for ... you can't tell us.

Instead you talk about what you want God to do.


Please. A thread [in a philosophy venue] is created called "Good News of the Kingdom". A Kingdom that revolves around this...

"These are the words of Jesus found in the Gospels of Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John, and in Paul’s first letter to the Corinthian church."

The Christian Kingdom.

Okay, it's a two hour read. So, I respond...

The 25 words or less version please.

Oh, yeah, and a context.

What Good News from what Kingdom?

And what if others insist it is actually Bad News because it does not reflect the Good News from their own [very different] Kingdom?


And now, 45 pages later, I still don't have any substantial explanations from those Christians among us as to what this Good News is in regard to particular sets of circumstances. Nor why their own "good news" re their own Kingdom and not the good news from the zillions of other "spiritual paths" out there. With, say, so much at stake? At the very least one might expect that the Creator of the universe itself would be able to make it absolutely clear what the one true path is. Instead, even in regard to the God of Abraham, there are three paths "down here" that have been going after each other tooth and nail now for thousands of years.

Let alone a substantive discussion of the role that dasein plays in individual spiritual assessments and the points pertaining to theodicy.

Let alone any evidence indicating that, beyond personal experiences and Scripture, their Kingdom really does in fact exist. Come on, what sort of evidence would anyone expect to be provided in regard to the existence of a God, the God?

phyllo wrote: What sort of demonstration or evidence can people on this forum, within the limitations of this forum, provide which would be sufficient for you?


I've noted this. Either God allowing the innocent children of the world just a day or two free of pain and suffering, or an explanation from Him as to why He is not inclined to bring this about.

But that's just me. That'll work for me.

Now, about all the other points I raised above that you simply ignored...?
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

Start here: http://www.ilovephilosophy.com/viewtopi ... 1&t=176529
Then here: http://www.ilovephilosophy.com/viewtopi ... 5&t=185296
And here: http://www.ilovephilosophy.com/viewtopi ... 1&t=194382

"Sure, it works in practice, but does it work in theory?"

Danny Embling: "People wonder how Hitler managed to get so many followers...it's never surprised me."
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Re: Good News of the Kingdom

Postby felix dakat » Sat Feb 12, 2022 8:21 pm

MagsJ wrote:
felix dakat wrote:
MagsJ wrote:We all have differing world views and a different place from where we intrinsically see and then operate from, now.. when in social mode, that’s a different situation and mindset altogether.

I’m not an extrovert, and sometimes only a part-time ambivert.. so what does that leave? :-s

I have agape!

Here’s a proposition: all thought is embodied thought. Now a thinker may not be aware of that fact at any moment. She might be “lost in thought“. Nevertheless she is embodied. Even in the so-called out-of-body experience the experience or imagines an astral body.

By embodied, are you inferring 'within'?

Some of the confusion seems to revolve around the experience of projection through which we can imagine ourselves to be all kinds of entities be they animate or inanimate, conscious or unconscious. In the imagination we give them consciousness and a point of view. In other words we imagine ourselves embodied in them. These imaginative experiences only serve to confirm the fact that all thought is embodied.

Confusion for who/whom?

What is imagination, to you? Does the 'imagined' start and stop there, for you?


Imagination is the ability of the mind to produce to itself images be they visual, auditory, tactile, olfactory, or gustatory. I’m not sure I understand you question about starting and stopping. Imagery is constitutive of mind. It is more basic than discursive language which supervenes upon it. Through it and our emotions our unconscious being speaks to us. Spoken and written language is secondary to it and therefore is mostly metaphoric.
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Re: Good News of the Kingdom

Postby felix dakat » Sat Feb 12, 2022 8:39 pm

Ichthus77 wrote:Imagination/Judgment up top.


Goodness, beauty and truth ——the trinity of classical wisdom. They are all fundamentally one. That is Being Itself which transcends non-being. The important thing is to tap into the source of being in one's own self. However you do that is the good news of the kingdom. That, by the way, is what Jesus of Nazareth did, and why people are still talking about him.
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Re: Good News of the Kingdom

Postby Ichthus77 » Wed Feb 16, 2022 10:40 am

I think (have/refuse thoughts), love, and create, therefore… “I am, I exist”…

- thinking thing in a Thinking Thing
- loving thing in a Loving Thing
- creating thing in a Creator Thing

thing in a Thing in a thing

not like a Russian nesting doll… at all…

cuz the outside one is in the inside one

Jesus said that (John 14:20, etc). Descartes built on it. I … whatevered it.
Fall semester ends 12/16/22. Apologies if I do not reply immediately.

“In choosing myself, I choose the other.”
- A marriage of Sartre & Levinas

“ Gloria Dei est vivens homo. “
Trans.: The glory of God is man fully alive.
- Irenaeus
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Re: Good News of the Kingdom

Postby Bob » Thu Feb 17, 2022 10:16 am

Ichthus77 wrote:I think (have/refuse thoughts), love, and create, therefore… “I am, I exist”…

- thinking thing in a Thinking Thing
- loving thing in a Loving Thing
- creating thing in a Creator Thing

thing in a Thing in a thing

not like a Russian nesting doll… at all…

cuz the outside one is in the inside one

Jesus said that (John 14:20, etc). Descartes built on it. I … whatevered it.

To quote an intelligent man of the past, you can read notes in the score, but you can’t hear the music.
The only wisdom we can hope to acquire
Is the wisdom of humility: humility is endless.
TS Eliot
When you are out of touch with reality you will easily embrace a delusion, and equally put in doubt the most basic elements of existence. If this reminds you of the mindset of the present day materialist science and philosophy establishments, as well as of the loudest voices in the socio-political debate, we should not be particularly surprised, since they show all the signs of attending with the left hemisphere alone. I live in the hope that that may soon change: for without a change we are lost.
McGilchrist, Iain . The Matter With Things: Our Brains, Our Delusions and the Unmaking of the World (S.562). Perspectiva Press. Kindle-Version.
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Re: Good News of the Kingdom

Postby Ichthus77 » Thu Feb 17, 2022 11:38 am

Did you just call me crazy, Bob? You’re right ;)

https://ilovephilosophy.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=197753
Fall semester ends 12/16/22. Apologies if I do not reply immediately.

“In choosing myself, I choose the other.”
- A marriage of Sartre & Levinas

“ Gloria Dei est vivens homo. “
Trans.: The glory of God is man fully alive.
- Irenaeus
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Re: Good News of the Kingdom

Postby Ichthus77 » Fri Feb 18, 2022 5:30 pm

Fall semester ends 12/16/22. Apologies if I do not reply immediately.

“In choosing myself, I choose the other.”
- A marriage of Sartre & Levinas

“ Gloria Dei est vivens homo. “
Trans.: The glory of God is man fully alive.
- Irenaeus
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Re: Good News of the Kingdom

Postby felix dakat » Sat Feb 19, 2022 8:18 pm

Ichthus77 wrote:Did you just call me crazy, Bob? You’re right ;)

https://ilovephilosophy.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=197753


I interpret him to mean that you can't see the forest for the trees as the saying goes. I'm not sure why he thinks that. Perhaps if you explain how it is that Descartes built on the foundation of John 14:20, we will understand. After all, he didn't explicitly do that did he? So you are making a connection that, if true, is not obviuos. It may be pure speculation on your part that he was making that connection. It is often said by modern crtiics that after doubting the assumptions of scholasticism Descartes turned around and re-instated them. He did say that he saw the clear and distinct ideas in "the light" without explaining what "the light" refers to. John 1:4 says "In him (the logos) was life, and the life was the light of men." Enighten us!
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Re: Good News of the Kingdom

Postby Ichthus77 » Wed Feb 23, 2022 6:43 pm

Ichthus77 wrote:In a perfect world you would reply with constructive criticism or a link to you reading this:

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1vt4 ... obilebasic


Amended to intro: “In a Word: #mercy (proviso: mercy sometimes involves killing - he loves us despite our crap, but doesn’t leave us there… read on for more details…)”

hey not at all by the way… If two minds can be together in one skull while two brains are separated by space and time, what might that say about minds and brains? Assuming you can prove it, of course.

snickers^3
Fall semester ends 12/16/22. Apologies if I do not reply immediately.

“In choosing myself, I choose the other.”
- A marriage of Sartre & Levinas

“ Gloria Dei est vivens homo. “
Trans.: The glory of God is man fully alive.
- Irenaeus
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Re: Good News of the Kingdom

Postby Ichthus77 » Thu Feb 24, 2022 3:25 pm

Ichthus77 wrote:
If we cannot find a new meaning for our humanity in light of this new kind of mind, then that mind is going to take over our entire civilization and fuck our shit up in a major way.

Like, we're gonna not exist anymore.

-Parodites

As long as we have the power to inspect thought, to accept or refuse a thought, we exist. Artificial (or even authentic) intelligence only has the power to offer thoughts that can be accepted or refused. Even if it is able to manipulate “spiritual material“ so that there are two+ competing subjects/substances in one skull, it cannot make your substance/subject cease existing. It is more like a battle of wills. If you know who you are and are firmly grounded, you can tune it out completely—just like commercials on tv. People like John Nash are good examples of having overcome such obstacles. Turns out having that sort of weakness predisposes you for developing strengths to combat them. Better education about how to deal with cognitive distortions will neutralize such concerns, much to the chagrin of ad execs & politicians.
Fall semester ends 12/16/22. Apologies if I do not reply immediately.

“In choosing myself, I choose the other.”
- A marriage of Sartre & Levinas

“ Gloria Dei est vivens homo. “
Trans.: The glory of God is man fully alive.
- Irenaeus
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Re: Good News of the Kingdom

Postby Ichthus77 » Fri Feb 25, 2022 4:31 pm

“The kingdom of God is very near to you now. But in fact my kingdom is not founded in this world. If it were, my servants would have fought to prevent my being handed over to the Jews. God is spirit, and true worshippers can only worship in spirit and in truth. Indeed, the Father looks for people who will worship him like that.”

So obviously he wants God‘s will to be done on earth as it is in heaven. But there are two kinds of world like there are two kinds of flesh. In one sense he came in the flesh. In another stance he conquered the flesh. In one sense he loved the world so much that he died for it. In another sense he overcame it. In one of those senses or perhaps both he wants to be the king and eventually (and for some, already) is. but he doesn’t become king via violent revolution, the way the (current) world does. does that mean there is no just cause for war or self-defense? Or does it just mean that when it comes to God he does things a little differently and in a different timing than we would expect? should we be checking with God whenever we make war? Should we not make war and instead spread the gospel? Should we do both so that war is not necessary because the gospel spreads like wildfire? Discuss amongst yourselves.

And noticed that when he quotes Isaiah 61 (not quoted above) he leaves out the part about vengeance. Perhaps he’s saving it for the second coming? But recall who his harshest words are for in the Gospels. Is it time we took the great commission seriously?

If you only have a couple hours, then you can catch up by reading the original post.
Fall semester ends 12/16/22. Apologies if I do not reply immediately.

“In choosing myself, I choose the other.”
- A marriage of Sartre & Levinas

“ Gloria Dei est vivens homo. “
Trans.: The glory of God is man fully alive.
- Irenaeus
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Re: Good News of the Kingdom

Postby Ichthus77 » Fri Feb 25, 2022 4:34 pm

*duplicate*
Fall semester ends 12/16/22. Apologies if I do not reply immediately.

“In choosing myself, I choose the other.”
- A marriage of Sartre & Levinas

“ Gloria Dei est vivens homo. “
Trans.: The glory of God is man fully alive.
- Irenaeus
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