Is anyone here a recovering atheist?

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Re: Is anyone here a recovering atheist?

Postby Pedro I Rengel » Wed Oct 13, 2021 5:35 pm

Maia wrote:
Pedro I Rengel wrote:There wouldn't even have needed to be a centralized command.

It could simply have been disjointed attacks by competing warlords on a target that seemed both vulnerable and rich.

In fact, that is the likeliest scenario. It still involves a consolidation, a cultural cohesiveness, but that was and can only have been built throughout centuries of a people isolated by geographical factors constantly going to war with each other.

Like it happened in Italy, Scandinavia, Japan, Mexico, the Canadian north, the steppes north of the Greek islands, the steppes north of China, etc, etc, etc.


Who converted the Arabs to monotheism? They were Pagans up until the time of Muhammad.



You want everything on a silver platter, don't you?

God. God converted the Arabs to Islam, through his prophet Mohamed.
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Re: Is anyone here a recovering atheist?

Postby Maia » Wed Oct 13, 2021 5:36 pm

Pedro I Rengel wrote:
Maia wrote:
Pedro I Rengel wrote:I would count Britain too, but that falls a little under Scandinavia and, besides, I believe the main source of power when they did go out and conquer the world was more their Roman heritage.


England had been a unified state for many centuries before it created the British Empire.


Importantly, it had been a Roman province.


England was founded by the Anglo-Saxons, who occupied Britain after the Romans left. Very little of Roman culture survived.
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Re: Is anyone here a recovering atheist?

Postby Pedro I Rengel » Wed Oct 13, 2021 5:37 pm

Maia wrote:England was founded by the Anglo-Saxons, who occupied Britain after the Romans left. Very little of Roman culture survived.



Except that when the rest of Europe had forgotten how to even speak Latin, it was England that brought it back.

Your studies were not very rigorous.
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Re: Is anyone here a recovering atheist?

Postby Maia » Wed Oct 13, 2021 5:37 pm

Pedro I Rengel wrote:
Maia wrote:
Pedro I Rengel wrote:There wouldn't even have needed to be a centralized command.

It could simply have been disjointed attacks by competing warlords on a target that seemed both vulnerable and rich.

In fact, that is the likeliest scenario. It still involves a consolidation, a cultural cohesiveness, but that was and can only have been built throughout centuries of a people isolated by geographical factors constantly going to war with each other.

Like it happened in Italy, Scandinavia, Japan, Mexico, the Canadian north, the steppes north of the Greek islands, the steppes north of China, etc, etc, etc.


Who converted the Arabs to monotheism? They were Pagans up until the time of Muhammad.



You want everything on a silver platter, don't you?

God. God converted the Arabs to Islam, through his prophet Mohamed.


Ok...
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Re: Is anyone here a recovering atheist?

Postby Pedro I Rengel » Wed Oct 13, 2021 5:38 pm

Maia wrote:
Pedro I Rengel wrote:

You want everything on a silver platter, don't you?

God. God converted the Arabs to Islam, through his prophet Mohamed.


Ok...



Either that, or centuries after contact with the monotheistic Eastern Roman Empire they retroactively made Mohamed up, whatever.
Last edited by Pedro I Rengel on Wed Oct 13, 2021 5:40 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Is anyone here a recovering atheist?

Postby Maia » Wed Oct 13, 2021 5:38 pm

Pedro I Rengel wrote:
Maia wrote:England was founded by the Anglo-Saxons, who occupied Britain after the Romans left. Very little of Roman culture survived.



Except that when the rest of Europe had forgotten how to even speak Latin, it was England that brought it back.

Your studies were not very rigorous.


The Catholic Church reintroduced Latin to England. The Pagan Anglo-Saxons had no knowledge of it.
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Re: Is anyone here a recovering atheist?

Postby Pedro I Rengel » Wed Oct 13, 2021 5:39 pm

Maia wrote:
Pedro I Rengel wrote:
Maia wrote:England was founded by the Anglo-Saxons, who occupied Britain after the Romans left. Very little of Roman culture survived.



Except that when the rest of Europe had forgotten how to even speak Latin, it was England that brought it back.

Your studies were not very rigorous.


The Catholic Church reintroduced Latin to England. The Pagan Anglo-Saxons had no knowledge of it.


Correction lady, the savage Anglo-Saxons ran into a Roman province, and continued its culture.
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Re: Is anyone here a recovering atheist?

Postby Maia » Wed Oct 13, 2021 5:44 pm

Pedro I Rengel wrote:Except that when the rest of Europe had forgotten how to even speak Latin, it was England that brought it back.

Your studies were not very rigorous.


The Catholic Church reintroduced Latin to England. The Pagan Anglo-Saxons had no knowledge of it.[/quote]

Correction lady, the savage Anglo-Saxons ran into a Roman province, and continued its culture.[/quote]

That they didn't is proved by the fact that there are almost no Latin loan words in Old English, and the few that there were came later, from the church (such as "church" itself). This is in marked contrast to Welsh, the language descended from the inhabitants of the Roman province, which is full of Latin loan words.
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Re: Is anyone here a recovering atheist?

Postby Pedro I Rengel » Wed Oct 13, 2021 5:46 pm

You talk about the Church as if it ever left.
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Re: Is anyone here a recovering atheist?

Postby Maia » Wed Oct 13, 2021 5:47 pm

Pedro I Rengel wrote:You talk about the Church as if it ever left.


The Anglo-Saxons were Pagans when they settled in Britain in the 5th century, and were not converted to Christianity till the 7th century.
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Re: Is anyone here a recovering atheist?

Postby Pedro I Rengel » Wed Oct 13, 2021 5:49 pm

Maia wrote:
Pedro I Rengel wrote:You talk about the Church as if it ever left.


The Anglo-Saxons were Pagans when they settled in Britain in the 5th century, and were not converted to Christianity till the 7th century.


*Did not fully assimilate the culture they found until about the 7th century.
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Re: Is anyone here a recovering atheist?

Postby Maia » Wed Oct 13, 2021 5:50 pm

Pedro I Rengel wrote:
Maia wrote:
Pedro I Rengel wrote:You talk about the Church as if it ever left.


The Anglo-Saxons were Pagans when they settled in Britain in the 5th century, and were not converted to Christianity till the 7th century.


*Did not fully assimilate the culture they found until about the 7th century.


Untrue. Many Britons fled west, to Wales and Conwall. You need to read Gildas and Bede.
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Re: Is anyone here a recovering atheist?

Postby iambiguous » Wed Oct 13, 2021 5:54 pm

FreeSpirit1983 wrote:The Church is full of sinners. As long as there are humans in it, that will be true.

It's a hospital for sinners and not a museum for saints.

Even though there are thousands of saints, the atheist culture loves to point out the sinners.

They don't do this with organization like schools, though.

Sadly, sexual abuse is very common with 1 out of 4 girls experiencing it and 1 out of 6 boys.


Now, this, from my frame of mind, is a more substantive response.

There are many, many religious denominations that speak of sin and sinners. And sin is important because of Judgment Day for most of them. But they often have very conflicting narratives regarding why mere mortals sin...and even what does in fact constitute a sin itself. Not to mention the consequences of committing them re Judgment Day.

How is a belief in Catholicism not just one more leap of faith?

And why on earth would God not be very, very, very clear regarding 1] what is in fact a sin and 2] what actually is the One True Path to salvation?

Instead, each denomination seems to have their own rendition of this:

1] The Scripture is true because it is the word of God
2] It is the word of God because it is the Scripture

And any number of them make it vey, very, very clear that "it's our way or you burn in Hell".

And again and again and again: WITH SO MUCH AT STAKE ON BOTH SIDES OF THE GRAVE!

And the atheist culture that I am in focuses more on the utter lack evidence that a God, the God, my God does in fact exist. And the part about reconciling an omniscient God with free will. And the part about an alleged loving, just and merciful God creating such things as the covid-19 and AIDS virus, countless medical afflictions and a planet bursting at the seams with "acts of God". Not to mention the occasional "extinction event".

Nat Geo just aired a documentary about the Super Volcano underneath Yellowstone. It's now overdue for another massive eruption. And when it goes much of the United States will be under feet of volcanic ash and debris. It was noted that, with not one but two gigantic magma chambers, if it is as big as it can be, it may well result in a near extinction event for the human race.

And not just the sinners will perish.

And again: how on Earth can "sexual abuse [be] very common with 1 out of 4 girls experiencing it and 1 out of 6 boys" if God is both loving, just and merciful and omniscient/omnipotent?

Here, of course, Catholics are in the same boat as all the other denominations: "just trust us, God works in mysterious ways".

Then the thing that most baffles me:

Why would a Jewish God save a devout Christian who argues that the Jewish religion itself is not the true path to Salvation?

Would the devout Catholic or Protestant be required to reject the belief that only in accepting Jesus Christ as your personal savior can you be saved?

Or, if God is a Catholic, would a Jew be required to accept Jesus Christ as his or her personal savior?


Forget the Rabbi, what is your explanation?
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

Start here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=176529
Then here: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=185296
And here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=194382
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Re: Is anyone here a recovering atheist?

Postby Pedro I Rengel » Wed Oct 13, 2021 6:09 pm

Maia wrote:
Pedro I Rengel wrote:
Maia wrote:
The Anglo-Saxons were Pagans when they settled in Britain in the 5th century, and were not converted to Christianity till the 7th century.


*Did not fully assimilate the culture they found until about the 7th century.


Untrue. Many Britons fled west, to Wales and Conwall. You need to read Gildas and Bede.


You have not said what is untrue about it.
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Re: Is anyone here a recovering atheist?

Postby FreeSpirit1983 » Wed Oct 13, 2021 6:12 pm

Iambiguous,

I've answered most of these questions before. Do you read my responses? It seems as if you won't or can't. I'll take one last crack at it before I put you on ignore for time wasting.

First, Christian denominations all believe Jesus is the way to Heaven. John 3:16.

Now, you will argue about some fringe Christian group that doesn’t. OK, but that's not the main stream Christian view.

Why choose Catholicism? Because Jesus founded the Catholic Church. He made Peter the first Pope.

Why does evil happen? Sometimes it's for our own good. Sometimes it's a mystery and we can only speculate.

I don't believe God micromanage all our actions. We're not robots.

Lastly, the Torah teaches that God made all people, not just the Jews and loves them all. One doesn't have to be Jewish to get a place in the world to come.

I'm not an expert in Judaism, so ask a Rabbi for your follow up questions.

Now, you said you have a God you believe in, which God is it? How do you worship?
"Pray, hope and don't worry."

- Saint Padre Pio
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Re: Is anyone here a recovering atheist?

Postby aniceguy » Wed Oct 13, 2021 6:18 pm

bro, you using Kolbe as some kind of avatar or forum personality is creepy and disrespectful...change that shit bro...we are not paGAYns...lets give our saints the level of sanctity and respect they deserve...
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Re: Is anyone here a recovering atheist?

Postby FreeSpirit1983 » Wed Oct 13, 2021 6:20 pm

aniceguy wrote:bro, you using Kolbe as some kind of avatar or forum personality is creepy and disrespectful...change that shit bro...


I was thinking of changing to Pascal.

What do you think?
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Re: Is anyone here a recovering atheist?

Postby Pedro I Rengel » Wed Oct 13, 2021 6:26 pm

Why not Peter's upside down cross?
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Re: Is anyone here a recovering atheist?

Postby FreeSpirit1983 » Wed Oct 13, 2021 6:27 pm

Pedro I Rengel wrote:Why not Peter's upside down cross?


That may confuse some.
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Re: Is anyone here a recovering atheist?

Postby Pedro I Rengel » Wed Oct 13, 2021 6:30 pm

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Re: Is anyone here a recovering atheist?

Postby FreeSpirit1983 » Wed Oct 13, 2021 6:31 pm

Pedro I Rengel wrote:How about the Vatican seal? https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/ ... te.svg.png


How about Saint Peter's basilica?
Last edited by FreeSpirit1983 on Wed Oct 13, 2021 6:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Is anyone here a recovering atheist?

Postby aniceguy » Wed Oct 13, 2021 6:32 pm

The great Pascal...I know about him from reading on Jansenism about which I know from reading about Manichaeism...which would mean you would be using an avatar of a heretic whilst being a member of the Catholic church...up to you buddy...
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Re: Is anyone here a recovering atheist?

Postby Pedro I Rengel » Wed Oct 13, 2021 6:33 pm

The truth about the British isles is that it is a hodge podge of different peoples. That is it's biggest strength. Anglos, saxons, but also Norse Vikings and Romans, Celts.

Still, that the name they still hold highest for themselves, Britain, is its Roman province name, says not little.

And yes, they were the only ones still (not suddenly) writing in Latin when most of Europe had forgotten it.
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Re: Is anyone here a recovering atheist?

Postby Pedro I Rengel » Wed Oct 13, 2021 6:33 pm

aniceguy wrote:The great Pascal...I know about him from reading on Jansenism about which I know from reading about Manichaeism...which would mean you would be using an avatar of a heretic whilst being a member of the Catholic church...up to you buddy...


Lol that is my opinion too. Pascal was kind of a heathen.
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Re: Is anyone here a recovering atheist?

Postby FreeSpirit1983 » Wed Oct 13, 2021 6:39 pm

aniceguy wrote:The great Pascal...I know about him from reading on Jansenism about which I know from reading about Manichaeism...which would mean you would be using an avatar of a heretic whilst being a member of the Catholic church...up to you buddy...


I think Pascal left Jansenism when it was declared a heresy.
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