The Sacking of Classical Greece and Rome

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Re: The Sacking of Classical Greece and Rome

Postby polishyouthgotipbanned » Fri May 07, 2021 4:02 pm

What democracy was there in Athens???That was a true freedom? Freedom for the elites and slavery and subjugation for everybody else, including females. Of course, you kooks(because you are dishonest lunatics) will turn around and give me an isolated case of some woman from some high aristocratical line in Egypt or somewhere...what the fuck does this matter??? What was the norm? The standard??? Was pederasty not common place? Was homosexual romantic love not common-place? Was human sacrifice banned or unheard of? What about the treatment of the slaves? You kooks say...pre-Christian civilisation was tolerant because faggotry was allowed and accepted...I can say...so was raping weaker males in Spartan army...is this some kind of desriable standard now???to turn military into an American prison?
At the beginning there was only Chaos, Night, dark Erebus, and deep Tartarus. Earth, the air and heaven had no existence. Firstly, blackwinged Night laid a germless egg in the bosom of the infinite deeps of Erebus, and from this, after the revolution of long ages, sprang the graceful Eros with his glittering golden wings, swift as the whirlwinds of the tempest. He mated in deep Tartarus with dark Chaos, winged like himself, and thus hatched forth our race, which was the first to see the light. That of the Immortals did nove yielded themselves to their lovers when almost at the end of their youth, being led away by the gift of a quail, a waterfowl, a goose, or a cock.
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Re: The Sacking of Classical Greece and Rome

Postby Fixed Cross » Fri May 07, 2021 4:13 pm

polishyouthgotipbanned wrote:These are just empty smears and beneath them a deeply hypocritical double-standard. Christians are to be judged by one standard whilst everybody else by a more lenient one. The fact that the Ancient Civilisations treated females like literal property with innate inferior characteristics is somehow never mentioned when you kooks criticize Christianity and its restrictive approach to sexuality...this is a serious discussion???or a dishonest manipulation??? I am starting to see how the SHITthyself kooks got around this forum. I never denied the golden age of Islam nor the fact that we got the numerical system through them...of course...you kooks are overestimating the tolerance during that Golden Age and are repeating smears made-up by Jewish historians meant to attack Christian Europeans and paint their own treatment of Jewry in a bad light.

You're thinking very generally and not accurately, apparently you are very angry, I presume you are a Christian. You shouldn't be. Jesus in as far as he is portrayed in the gospels is a trickster demon of unparalleled succes; he who ate more souls than any demon before him.

The liberation of women came about when the Europeans started throwing off the yoke of Christianity and went back to pagan instincts.
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Re: The Sacking of Classical Greece and Rome

Postby polishyouthgotipbanned » Fri May 07, 2021 4:17 pm

Well genius...maybe now is the time to provide some concrete arguments and concrete evidence for them. Or is calling me an angry Christian an argument in your kooks mind? It is rather doubtful that Jesus was a demon soul-sucking trickster given that he most likely never existed. The liberation of women had nothing to do with paganism...are women in India liberated because they are pagan there??? The liberation of females is due to Hitlers war, the progress of technology and to Christianity. Show me one other religion where a normal woman who is a wife and a mother has such central significance as does the Holy Marry. How many females are there in Koran and whats their role? Provide me examples of affluent and powerful females in Islamic tradition or in Antiquity; of course...the whole things with nuns comes indirectly from Ancient Roman customs and culture,,,again,,,I am not a dishonest kook...I don't deny anything to Civilisations besides the Western one.
At the beginning there was only Chaos, Night, dark Erebus, and deep Tartarus. Earth, the air and heaven had no existence. Firstly, blackwinged Night laid a germless egg in the bosom of the infinite deeps of Erebus, and from this, after the revolution of long ages, sprang the graceful Eros with his glittering golden wings, swift as the whirlwinds of the tempest. He mated in deep Tartarus with dark Chaos, winged like himself, and thus hatched forth our race, which was the first to see the light. That of the Immortals did nove yielded themselves to their lovers when almost at the end of their youth, being led away by the gift of a quail, a waterfowl, a goose, or a cock.
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Re: The Sacking of Classical Greece and Rome

Postby polishyouthgotipbanned » Fri May 07, 2021 4:46 pm

To be perfectly honest...I dont give a shit...I am a European, a Pole...not an Ancient Roman, Ancient Greek, not a barbarian, not a heathen, not a viking, not a Mongol or a Nazi...My people are not imaginary or extinct or ideal...they live in the 3rd Republic of Poland and they are Christian religiously and European culturally...Western...This is my culture, this is its religion, these are my people...and even if all you kooks say is true(and it definitely is not)...it changes nothing for me...what option do I have? to strip myself of my identity, move to Canada and role-play a neo-nazi or a pre-Socratic Ancient Greek in my own head like the kooks on SHITthyself do??? are you people right in the head??? you want to believe something that is impossible???and end up lonely and separated, rotting in your own room, bitter and self-defeated with imaginary friends on the internet forums??? if somebody wants to be a neo-nazi...be my guest...your choice, there is no right or wrong or better or worse as far as morality is concerned...if you want to believe all Jews need to be eradicated...thats what you believe...whos to stop you? me???
At the beginning there was only Chaos, Night, dark Erebus, and deep Tartarus. Earth, the air and heaven had no existence. Firstly, blackwinged Night laid a germless egg in the bosom of the infinite deeps of Erebus, and from this, after the revolution of long ages, sprang the graceful Eros with his glittering golden wings, swift as the whirlwinds of the tempest. He mated in deep Tartarus with dark Chaos, winged like himself, and thus hatched forth our race, which was the first to see the light. That of the Immortals did nove yielded themselves to their lovers when almost at the end of their youth, being led away by the gift of a quail, a waterfowl, a goose, or a cock.
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Re: The Sacking of Classical Greece and Rome

Postby felix dakat » Fri May 07, 2021 5:00 pm

Bob wrote:
felix dakat wrote:Just this morning I serendipitously was listening to three medieval scholars debunking the dark ages as a myth on the NPR show 1A. So I ask what in this moment of the culture wars would motivate a journalist to resurrect the theory that Christianity caused a dark age in the medieval period? And with that question I raise the suspicion that motivated reasoning may be involved.

Looking back from the Enlightenment, as the name suggests, the centuries before were oppressive and dictated by the interpretation of the Bible. The Church was the most powerful force in Europe and determined where the pursuance of knowledge was allowed to go. There was no doubt a blossoming of church building and arts, but it was confined in many ways to the devotional. There was progress made in various areas of knowledge and the church began to copy many of the lost Greek classics, preserving them by that. I think that in many ways it was a time of restriction and many wars:

Karl, a son of Pepin the Short, inherited the Frankish kingdom with his brother Carloman when Pepin died in 768. Carloman died several years later, and 29-year-old Karl assumed complete control, beginning his historic reign as Charlemagne (or Charles the Great). Over some 50 military campaigns, his forces fought Muslims in Spain, Bavarians and Saxons in northern Germany and Lombards in Italy, expanding the Frankish empire exponentially. As representative of the first Germanic tribe to practice Catholicism, Charlemagne took seriously his duty to spread the faith. In 800, Pope Leo III crowned Charlemagne “emperor of the Romans,” which eventually evolved into the title of Holy Roman Emperor.

The Battle of Tours was one of the most important battles of middle ages war. The watershed of the battle was marked by Charles Martel’s decision to inhibit the Muslims from invading the Frankish Empire. The battle began October 10 732 AD and it is possible that it lasted more than one week. The Spanish army led by Abd-er Rahman sought to make headway to the city of Tours to besiege the Frankish Empire. In the end, the Muslim retreated from the city of Tours and Martel was able to capture Abd-er Rahman.

The Battle of Hastings was one of the most significant middle ages war due to the subsequent changes that it brought across the English throne. The battle had an impact on English language, culture and law and marked the early beginnings of the English feudalism. The battle of Hastings began 14 October 1066 AD when King Edward of England died without children to succeed him. After his death, his close friend Harold Godwinson took over the throne but this was met with opposition from Edward’s cousin, William the Duke of Normandy.

The Battle of Bannockburn was Scotland’s war of independence against the Kings of England Edward I and Edward II. The war took place in Central Scotland on June 23rd and 24th 1314 between the Scottish army and the English, Welsh and a segment of the Scottish army. The battle began when Edward II, brother to the Scottish King took over Stirling Castle despite the fact that it had a formidable defense. The castles’ governor Sir Philip de Mowbray offered to surrender the castle to Edward II if no relief was forthcoming. Edward congregated an army totaling over 40,000 soldiers; these included knights, bowmen and both strong and lightweight infantry. The Scot army under King Robert of Scotland, was made up of 13,000 soldiers, thereby convincing Edward II that he would conquer Scotland. The battle began June 23. Notably the English knight suffered more casualties than the Scottish soldiers.

Christians had always undertaken pilgrimage to the Holy Land despite the prevailing Muslim rule. However, in 11 century the Seljuk Turks gained authority over Jerusalem and prevented Christians from undertaking the pilgrimages. This marked the beginning of the seven crusades that saw Christians wage a series of wars against the Muslims in an effort to get back Jerusalem. Crusaders numbering in their thousands sailed to the Holy Land in a historical journey that would cost many lives.

The Battle of Crecy was a decisive defeat of the French in the Hundred Years War, triggered by King Edward III, King of England who was claiming the French throne. The Hundred Years War lasted until the beginning of the 15 century. Edward III King of England engaged his 12000 professional soldiers in a battle with 40,000 French soldiers under the command of Philip VI. King Edward III positioned his troops on a hill where they could fire their arrows easily; they threw an approximated 12 arrows per minute, causing massive destruction to the French army.

Kings, queens and other rulers during the early medieval period drew much of their authority and power from their relationship with the Church. The rise of a strong papacy, beginning with Gregory the Great (pope from 590 to 604), meant that European monarchs could not monopolize power, unlike in the days of the Roman Empire.

I think that these conflicts show that the Church didn’t have the peaceful influence upon Europe, quite the contrary, and although there was progress made in various fields, the peasants of the land will have suffered the wars most of all, culminating of course in the thirty years war, that decimated the population. One area where progress was made, in Spain prior to the inquisition, was when Muslims, Jews and Christians co-existed. But as we know, the inquisition ended that. First of all the Muslims were driven out, then Jews were forced to convert (although nobody believed them). Not a nice time, even though it was when Christopher Columbus set out, beginning the colonization of the Americas. We all know what happened then ...


https://historyforatheists.com/2020/03/ ... -learning/

https://historyforatheists.com/2017/11/ ... ening-age/

https://www.theguardian.com/books/2017/ ... rine-nixey
The purpose of my life would seem to be to express the truth as I discover it, but in such a manner that it is completely devoid of authority. By having no authority, by being seen by all as utterly unreliable, I express the truth and put everyone in a contradictory position where they can only save themselves by making the truth their own.
Soren Kierkegaard– Journals, 432
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Re: The Sacking of Classical Greece and Rome

Postby polishyouthgotipbanned » Fri May 07, 2021 5:34 pm

History for atheists. :-? :-? :-? I thought there was just history, but apparently in Canada, there are different histories????Atheist history, neo-nazi history, Christian history, Islamic history, Jewish history, Jordan Petersons history, Republican history, Democrats history, New York times history,???whats next???trans history??? :-? :-? :-? You people will grill in hell for your lies, I will pray you are spared given your disability.
At the beginning there was only Chaos, Night, dark Erebus, and deep Tartarus. Earth, the air and heaven had no existence. Firstly, blackwinged Night laid a germless egg in the bosom of the infinite deeps of Erebus, and from this, after the revolution of long ages, sprang the graceful Eros with his glittering golden wings, swift as the whirlwinds of the tempest. He mated in deep Tartarus with dark Chaos, winged like himself, and thus hatched forth our race, which was the first to see the light. That of the Immortals did nove yielded themselves to their lovers when almost at the end of their youth, being led away by the gift of a quail, a waterfowl, a goose, or a cock.
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Re: The Sacking of Classical Greece and Rome

Postby felix dakat » Fri May 07, 2021 5:38 pm

https://static1.squarespace.com/static/ ... laidis.pdf
The greatest oversight of Nixey’s book,
however, is one that might escape the
notice of some Western readers, but is
glaring clear to an Orthodox one. While
Nixey is quick to cite the anti-classical
sentiment of early Latin fathers, particularly Saint Augustine (who famously never mastered Greek) and Saint
Jerome, she is strangely silent on the
great Eastern patristic writing on the
subject of pagan education. It was, undoubtedly, however, the Greek fathers
who most ardently sought a place for
Plato, Aristotle, and even Euripides, even as the schools and libraries
of the ancient world were destroyed
as suspect centers of demonic worship. For example, Gregory of Nyssa,
whose treatise on the proper use of pagan learning in a Christian education
helped shape pedagogy not only in the
Byzantine Empire, but also in Renaissance Italy, is absent from the index
entirely. It would seem entirely impossible to describe Christian attitudes toward pagan learning in Late Antiquity
adequately without accounting for this
incredibly influential, pro-classical argument.

It is a telling omission and speaks to
a wider shortcoming of The Darkening Age. In a completely worthwhile
attempt to expand the conversation
and correct the record surrounding
early Christian engagements with pagan learning and culture, Nixey falls
into the same reductive trap that has
shaped Christian understandings of
the period. The simple and not very
book-pitch- worthy truth is that early
Christian attitudes toward pre-Christian culture and toward non-Christian
cultures were as diverse and complicated in Late Antiquity as they are
today. There were both fundamentalists and universalists among the early
Christians. They argued and fought
with each other just as much, if not
more, as with the outside world. This
conflict has an important story to offer
the present, though it certainly would
make neither side of the culture wars
happy. Nixey misses the opportunity
to tell this story, choosing instead to
create an alternative, polemical vision.
It is sadly a missed opportunity
Last edited by felix dakat on Fri May 07, 2021 5:51 pm, edited 2 times in total.
The purpose of my life would seem to be to express the truth as I discover it, but in such a manner that it is completely devoid of authority. By having no authority, by being seen by all as utterly unreliable, I express the truth and put everyone in a contradictory position where they can only save themselves by making the truth their own.
Soren Kierkegaard– Journals, 432
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Re: The Sacking of Classical Greece and Rome

Postby felix dakat » Fri May 07, 2021 5:41 pm

polishyouthgotipbanned wrote:History for atheists. :-? :-? :-? I thought there was just history, but apparently in Canada, there are different histories????Atheist history, neo-nazi history, Christian history, Islamic history, Jewish history, Jordan Petersons history, Republican history, Democrats history, New York times history,???whats next???trans history??? :-? :-? :-? You people will grill in hell for your lies, I will pray you are spared given your disability.


"This blog is for articles book reviews and critiques relating to the new atheist bad history the misuse of history and the use of biased erroneous or distorted pseudo history by anti-theistic atheists the author is an atheist himself so no this is not some theist apologetic blog."
The purpose of my life would seem to be to express the truth as I discover it, but in such a manner that it is completely devoid of authority. By having no authority, by being seen by all as utterly unreliable, I express the truth and put everyone in a contradictory position where they can only save themselves by making the truth their own.
Soren Kierkegaard– Journals, 432
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Re: The Sacking of Classical Greece and Rome

Postby felix dakat » Fri May 07, 2021 5:46 pm

The best of historical writing is accessible to educated adults of all disciplines, and it furthers our understanding of the human person; The Darkening Age is not such a work. Instead, it reveals more to us about Catherine Nixey and her understanding of history. The scholars she assembles are uniformly opposed to Christianity, presenting it as a destructive force that ended the “merry, jolly days” of pagan festivity. The prose she uses is filled with judgmental adjectives, indicating that she does not trust readers to draw their conclusion from the evidence; we must be told how to feel about the person she describes. Her book was several years in the making, but it does not reflect a clear understanding of Christianity, the complexities of Late Antiquity, or the nuances of historical craft. While this book is sold under the guise of popular history, treat it instead as an insight into how a secular journalist views Christianity in the year of our Lord 2017.


https://www.acton.org/publications/tran ... rine-nixey
The purpose of my life would seem to be to express the truth as I discover it, but in such a manner that it is completely devoid of authority. By having no authority, by being seen by all as utterly unreliable, I express the truth and put everyone in a contradictory position where they can only save themselves by making the truth their own.
Soren Kierkegaard– Journals, 432
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Re: The Sacking of Classical Greece and Rome

Postby Fixed Cross » Fri May 07, 2021 5:51 pm

Bottom line is in the degree of perversity. christianity introduced the idea that when you torture kill someone of another faith you are doing them a favour.

Isnt that the sickest thing conceivable to your minds?

Burning people alive as an expression of what is felt by the killer as his sweet baby innocence. That's what xtianity has always shown itself as to me.

And you xtians here don't even bother denying it. Its normal to you. Good even.
Last edited by Fixed Cross on Fri May 07, 2021 5:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The Sacking of Classical Greece and Rome

Postby polishyouthgotipbanned » Fri May 07, 2021 5:52 pm

felix dakat wrote:
The best of historical writing is accessible to educated adults of all disciplines, and it furthers our understanding of the human person; The Darkening Age is not such a work. Instead, it reveals more to us about Catherine Nixey and her understanding of history. The scholars she assembles are uniformly opposed to Christianity, presenting it as a destructive force that ended the “merry, jolly days” of pagan festivity. The prose she uses is filled with judgmental adjectives, indicating that she does not trust readers to draw their conclusion from the evidence; we must be told how to feel about the person she describes. Her book was several years in the making, but it does not reflect a clear understanding of Christianity, the complexities of Late Antiquity, or the nuances of historical craft. While this book is sold under the guise of popular history, treat it instead as an insight into how a secular journalist views Christianity in the year of our Lord 2017.


https://www.acton.org/publications/tran ... rine-nixey

sorry for that post then felix, if he is not a liar but an atheist fighting lies then I support him. thanks for sharing and sorry for not checking that blog but assuming it is some bizarre, quackery and truth-twisting. he claims Jesus existed, I always thought he was imaginary...I need to read up on that fact some time.
At the beginning there was only Chaos, Night, dark Erebus, and deep Tartarus. Earth, the air and heaven had no existence. Firstly, blackwinged Night laid a germless egg in the bosom of the infinite deeps of Erebus, and from this, after the revolution of long ages, sprang the graceful Eros with his glittering golden wings, swift as the whirlwinds of the tempest. He mated in deep Tartarus with dark Chaos, winged like himself, and thus hatched forth our race, which was the first to see the light. That of the Immortals did nove yielded themselves to their lovers when almost at the end of their youth, being led away by the gift of a quail, a waterfowl, a goose, or a cock.
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Re: The Sacking of Classical Greece and Rome

Postby polishyouthgotipbanned » Fri May 07, 2021 5:59 pm

Fixed Cross wrote:Bottom line is in the degree of perversity. christianity introduced the idea that when you torture kill someone of another faith you are doing them a favour.

Isnt that the sickest thing conceivable to your minds?

Burning people alive as an expression of what is felt by the killer as his sweet baby innocence. That's what xtianity has always shown itself as to me.

And you xtians here don't even bother denying it. Its normal to you. Good even.

what are you talking about? what does sexual deviance have to do with all this???what perversity???you mean pathology as in sadism??? and why do you use this goofy abbreviation???xtanity???
death by burning existed for thousands of years prior to Christianity.
Last edited by polishyouthgotipbanned on Fri May 07, 2021 6:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
At the beginning there was only Chaos, Night, dark Erebus, and deep Tartarus. Earth, the air and heaven had no existence. Firstly, blackwinged Night laid a germless egg in the bosom of the infinite deeps of Erebus, and from this, after the revolution of long ages, sprang the graceful Eros with his glittering golden wings, swift as the whirlwinds of the tempest. He mated in deep Tartarus with dark Chaos, winged like himself, and thus hatched forth our race, which was the first to see the light. That of the Immortals did nove yielded themselves to their lovers when almost at the end of their youth, being led away by the gift of a quail, a waterfowl, a goose, or a cock.
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Re: The Sacking of Classical Greece and Rome

Postby Fixed Cross » Fri May 07, 2021 6:01 pm

One thing that clearly demonstrates xtianity to be a false faith, ie something people don't actually believe in like a pagan believes, is that they're always trying to justify their doctrine by digging up ancient "nuances"
Postmodernism. Actions don't matter, history is fake (Jewish) , all that exists is their creeds holy confusion about itself.

The debris around it, the carnage of wrecked souls, the atrocities, all that isnt real.
The strong act as they may, the weak accept what they must.
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Re: The Sacking of Classical Greece and Rome

Postby felix dakat » Fri May 07, 2021 6:04 pm

Fixed Cross wrote:Bottom line is in the degree of perversity. christianity introduced the idea that when you torture kill someone of another faith you are doing them a favour.

Isnt that the sickest thing conceivable to your minds?

Burning people alive as an expression of what is felt by the killer as his sweet baby innocence. That's what xtianity has always shown itself as to me.

And you xtians here don't even bother denying it. Its normal to you. Good even.


I'm not going to take responsibility for all the bad shit that has been done in the name of Christ throughout history anymore than I'm going to take responsibility for enslaving black people or massacring indigenous Americans. I find it difficult enough to take responsibility for my own actions.
The purpose of my life would seem to be to express the truth as I discover it, but in such a manner that it is completely devoid of authority. By having no authority, by being seen by all as utterly unreliable, I express the truth and put everyone in a contradictory position where they can only save themselves by making the truth their own.
Soren Kierkegaard– Journals, 432
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Re: The Sacking of Classical Greece and Rome

Postby Fixed Cross » Fri May 07, 2021 6:05 pm

polishyouthgotipbanned wrote:
Fixed Cross wrote:Bottom line is in the degree of perversity. christianity introduced the idea that when you torture kill someone of another faith you are doing them a favour.

Isnt that the sickest thing conceivable to your minds?

Burning people alive as an expression of what is felt by the killer as his sweet baby innocence. That's what xtianity has always shown itself as to me.

And you xtians here don't even bother denying it. Its normal to you. Good even.

what are you talking about? what does sexual deviance have to do with all this???what perversity???you mean pathology as in sadism??? and why do you use this goofy abbreviation???xtanity???

You actually don't see the perversity of christianity?
I find that impossible to believe.

Don't avoid the horror issues I've brought up.
Confront.
The strong act as they may, the weak accept what they must.
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Re: The Sacking of Classical Greece and Rome

Postby Fixed Cross » Fri May 07, 2021 6:09 pm

felix dakat wrote:
Fixed Cross wrote:Bottom line is in the degree of perversity. christianity introduced the idea that when you torture kill someone of another faith you are doing them a favour.

Isnt that the sickest thing conceivable to your minds?

Burning people alive as an expression of what is felt by the killer as his sweet baby innocence. That's what xtianity has always shown itself as to me.

And you xtians here don't even bother denying it. Its normal to you. Good even.


I'm not going to take responsibility for all the bad shit that has been done in the name of Christ throughout history anymore than I'm going to take responsibility for enslaving black people or massacring indigenous Americans. I find it difficult enough to take responsibility for my own actions.

That's exactly what I mean. The creed is one of perversity and lustful, "sacred murder" and you still honour it - naturally all Christians feel this impotence of responsibility. Wrong choices in the extreme.

A pagan never has difficulty accepting responsibility for his actions.
The strong act as they may, the weak accept what they must.
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Re: The Sacking of Classical Greece and Rome

Postby polishyouthgotipbanned » Fri May 07, 2021 6:09 pm

Fixed Cross wrote:One thing that clearly demonstrates xtianity to be a false faith, ie something people don't actually believe in like a pagan believes, is that they're always trying to justify their doctrine by digging up ancient "nuances"
Postmodernism. Actions don't matter, history is fake (Jewish) , all that exists is their creeds holy confusion about itself.

The debris around it, the carnage of wrecked souls, the atrocities, all that isnt real.

you are a dishonest retard...you think i will swallow your bait...you felt I put you in a corner with the overall cultural comparison and now you are shifting to avoid having to saying something concrete. you realize what pagan religion is???it is not modern day physics or some ultra-deep allegorical fable...you believe there were giants in the sky and Zeus came down and slaughtered them???or that Zeus fornicated and his children can come down and fuck your sisters and mothers and make half-God bastards to them if they desire??? you actually believe that??? what digging up of ancient nuances???what are you talking about? what carnage of wrecked souls???what the fuck are you referring to???
At the beginning there was only Chaos, Night, dark Erebus, and deep Tartarus. Earth, the air and heaven had no existence. Firstly, blackwinged Night laid a germless egg in the bosom of the infinite deeps of Erebus, and from this, after the revolution of long ages, sprang the graceful Eros with his glittering golden wings, swift as the whirlwinds of the tempest. He mated in deep Tartarus with dark Chaos, winged like himself, and thus hatched forth our race, which was the first to see the light. That of the Immortals did nove yielded themselves to their lovers when almost at the end of their youth, being led away by the gift of a quail, a waterfowl, a goose, or a cock.
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Re: The Sacking of Classical Greece and Rome

Postby Bob » Fri May 07, 2021 6:09 pm

felix dakat wrote:https://historyforatheists.com/2020/03/the-great-myths-8-the-loss-of-ancient-learning/

https://historyforatheists.com/2017/11/ ... ening-age/

https://www.theguardian.com/books/2017/ ... rine-nixey

Those are very good, well researched and written articles. It just goes to show that a book can be well written but lacking the necessary research, like Nixey's book. She had me going for a while.

I have already put it aside after 30% of reading and will turn to those books that are mentioned in the articles.
The only wisdom we can hope to acquire
Is the wisdom of humility: humility is endless.
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Re: The Sacking of Classical Greece and Rome

Postby felix dakat » Fri May 07, 2021 6:12 pm

Fixed Cross wrote:
felix dakat wrote:
Fixed Cross wrote:Bottom line is in the degree of perversity. christianity introduced the idea that when you torture kill someone of another faith you are doing them a favour.

Isnt that the sickest thing conceivable to your minds?

Burning people alive as an expression of what is felt by the killer as his sweet baby innocence. That's what xtianity has always shown itself as to me.

And you xtians here don't even bother denying it. Its normal to you. Good even.


I'm not going to take responsibility for all the bad shit that has been done in the name of Christ throughout history anymore than I'm going to take responsibility for enslaving black people or massacring indigenous Americans. I find it difficult enough to take responsibility for my own actions.

That's exactly what I mean. The creed is one of perversity and lustful, "sacred murder" and you still honour it - naturally all Christians feel this impotence of responsibility. Wrong choices in the extreme.

A pagan never has difficulty accepting responsibility for his actions.


So let me get this straight you take responsibility for everything that pagans have done? If a pagan is human there are things difficult for a pagan to do including taking responsibility. If taking responsibility were easy then there's no virtue in it. That's why people constantly project avoid and evade and blame others like your hero Donald Trump.
The purpose of my life would seem to be to express the truth as I discover it, but in such a manner that it is completely devoid of authority. By having no authority, by being seen by all as utterly unreliable, I express the truth and put everyone in a contradictory position where they can only save themselves by making the truth their own.
Soren Kierkegaard– Journals, 432
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Re: The Sacking of Classical Greece and Rome

Postby polishyouthgotipbanned » Fri May 07, 2021 6:13 pm

That's exactly what I mean. The creed is one of perversity and lustful, "sacred murder" and you still honour it - naturally all Christians feel this impotence of responsibility. Wrong choices in the extreme.

A pagan never has difficulty accepting responsibility for his actions.

what are you talking about? what does lust and perversion have to do with anything? who is a pagan? responsibility for what? if anything, Christians postulate that nobody will get away from paying a price for their actions...where do you get these genius insights from?
At the beginning there was only Chaos, Night, dark Erebus, and deep Tartarus. Earth, the air and heaven had no existence. Firstly, blackwinged Night laid a germless egg in the bosom of the infinite deeps of Erebus, and from this, after the revolution of long ages, sprang the graceful Eros with his glittering golden wings, swift as the whirlwinds of the tempest. He mated in deep Tartarus with dark Chaos, winged like himself, and thus hatched forth our race, which was the first to see the light. That of the Immortals did nove yielded themselves to their lovers when almost at the end of their youth, being led away by the gift of a quail, a waterfowl, a goose, or a cock.
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Re: The Sacking of Classical Greece and Rome

Postby polishyouthgotipbanned » Fri May 07, 2021 6:19 pm

Bob wrote:
felix dakat wrote:https://historyforatheists.com/2020/03/the-great-myths-8-the-loss-of-ancient-learning/

https://historyforatheists.com/2017/11/ ... ening-age/

https://www.theguardian.com/books/2017/ ... rine-nixey

Those are very good, well researched and written articles. It just goes to show that a book can be well written but lacking the necessary research, like Nixey's book. She had me going for a while.

I have already put it aside after 30% of reading and will turn to those books that are mentioned in the articles.

WOW Bob!!!Bob the enlightened skeptic philosopher!!!I am impressed!!!
At the beginning there was only Chaos, Night, dark Erebus, and deep Tartarus. Earth, the air and heaven had no existence. Firstly, blackwinged Night laid a germless egg in the bosom of the infinite deeps of Erebus, and from this, after the revolution of long ages, sprang the graceful Eros with his glittering golden wings, swift as the whirlwinds of the tempest. He mated in deep Tartarus with dark Chaos, winged like himself, and thus hatched forth our race, which was the first to see the light. That of the Immortals did nove yielded themselves to their lovers when almost at the end of their youth, being led away by the gift of a quail, a waterfowl, a goose, or a cock.
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Re: The Sacking of Classical Greece and Rome

Postby felix dakat » Fri May 07, 2021 6:23 pm

Bob wrote:
felix dakat wrote:https://historyforatheists.com/2020/03/the-great-myths-8-the-loss-of-ancient-learning/

https://historyforatheists.com/2017/11/ ... ening-age/

https://www.theguardian.com/books/2017/ ... rine-nixey

Those are very good, well researched and written articles. It just goes to show that a book can be well written but lacking the necessary research, like Nixey's book. She had me going for a while.

I have already put it aside after 30% of reading and will turn to those books that are mentioned in the articles.


Most of the Protestants I have conversed with are aggrieved and critical of the direction the church took especially from Constantine on. Obviously the way the church undertook censorship was not in the spirit of freedom of thought so valued by the European enlightenment and the framers of the American Constitution. But as Tom Holland brings out those values themselves evolved from Christianity.
The purpose of my life would seem to be to express the truth as I discover it, but in such a manner that it is completely devoid of authority. By having no authority, by being seen by all as utterly unreliable, I express the truth and put everyone in a contradictory position where they can only save themselves by making the truth their own.
Soren Kierkegaard– Journals, 432
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Re: The Sacking of Classical Greece and Rome

Postby Bob » Fri May 07, 2021 6:28 pm

Fixed Cross wrote:
felix dakat wrote:
Fixed Cross wrote:Bottom line is in the degree of perversity. christianity introduced the idea that when you torture kill someone of another faith you are doing them a favour.

Isnt that the sickest thing conceivable to your minds?

Burning people alive as an expression of what is felt by the killer as his sweet baby innocence. That's what xtianity has always shown itself as to me.

And you xtians here don't even bother denying it. Its normal to you. Good even.


I'm not going to take responsibility for all the bad shit that has been done in the name of Christ throughout history anymore than I'm going to take responsibility for enslaving black people or massacring indigenous Americans. I find it difficult enough to take responsibility for my own actions.

That's exactly what I mean. The creed is one of perversity and lustful, "sacred murder" and you still honour it - naturally all Christians feel this impotence of responsibility. Wrong choices in the extreme.

A pagan never has difficulty accepting responsibility for his actions.

Whilst I can understand the anger that has been especially voiced by people like Christopher Hitchins regarding Christianity, I tend to think that perversions and cruelty are found on both sides because it is a human problem rather than a matter of creed. I have no doubt that all religions have had their Taliban phase, but the people born a generation later cannot be held responsible for their predecessors, especially if they condemn the cruelty that took place then. Let alone people born millennia later. The horrors of Nazi Germany, Soviet Russia and Mao's Communism cannot be laid at the door of religion, but they are examples of ideological warfare, that have proven themselves to be far more effective in destroying the lives and traditions of their people than anything that Nixey has claimed the Christians did in her rather one-sided book.

Despite the failings of all religions at some time in history, Christianity was the force that enabled the Enlightenment, despite the fact that it turned on the Church. We can't avoid the fact that with regard to Greek culture, after the church went through an unstable phase after coming to power, it was responsible for restoring the literature that we now refer to as the classics. Like any human being, the Church has made mistakes - because it is human.
Last edited by Bob on Sat May 08, 2021 4:14 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The Sacking of Classical Greece and Rome

Postby polishyouthgotipbanned » Fri May 07, 2021 6:31 pm

Christopher Hitchens is a kook, his brother also spouts insane shit but from a conservative angle...some sort of odd thinking and insanity runs in that family. Its also not the case that generations cant be held accountable to what the previous generations did...that is fine and happens all the time...but its insanity to behave as if you have done the things yourself...if you are a white American, you have nothing to apologise for or feel bad about but that does not mean you must not admit what took place and think about ways to deal with it. If my father raped the neighbors' daughters...I will not act as if I did it but I might want to show some kind of help and compassion to that family...not because I feel like I raped them but out of normal human compassion and sympathy and a desire to be in good relationships with people around you.
At the beginning there was only Chaos, Night, dark Erebus, and deep Tartarus. Earth, the air and heaven had no existence. Firstly, blackwinged Night laid a germless egg in the bosom of the infinite deeps of Erebus, and from this, after the revolution of long ages, sprang the graceful Eros with his glittering golden wings, swift as the whirlwinds of the tempest. He mated in deep Tartarus with dark Chaos, winged like himself, and thus hatched forth our race, which was the first to see the light. That of the Immortals did nove yielded themselves to their lovers when almost at the end of their youth, being led away by the gift of a quail, a waterfowl, a goose, or a cock.
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Re: The Sacking of Classical Greece and Rome

Postby Fixed Cross » Fri May 07, 2021 6:41 pm

That is as perverse as suggesting the Jews caused the Holocaust. Christianity tries always to take credit for the work of the brave people they murdered, for the fruits of the cultures they ravaged. It's a heartwrenchingly cruel and barren doctrine. Im not enjoying this expose, I'm always sorry to even try to make Christian's look critically at their heritage. It's never going to happen, as "criticism" to a Christian never occurs but after the axiom that christianity is good. That always stands beyond doubt. Which itself is a sure sign of its questionable ethics.

No true religion proclaims itself as the good. It just offers itself as a gift for those who may freely take it up.

I lay little of the blame at Jesus his own feet, much more at the Roman agents wrote the gospels, using him to extend the Caesars rule to the domain of religion. Before Christianity religious freedom was taken for granted everywhere. Still - A charismatic man of enormous claims to entitlement performing magic tricks to get people to give him their souls.

Does this not ring a bell?
The strong act as they may, the weak accept what they must.
- Thucydides
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