Is God good?

For intuitive and critical discussions, from spirituality to theological doctrines. Fair warning: because the subject matter is personal, moderation is strict.

Moderator: Dan~

Re: Is God good?

Postby Ierrellus » Sun Feb 28, 2021 1:52 pm

Greatest I am wrote:
Ierrellus wrote:If God can be seen as the force behind the creative evolution of all living beings and as the reclaimer into Itself of all It created , then God is good. The conservation of energy is the handiwork of a good God. But remember, God is a force, not a person. We crave the personal and so name forces that affect us. Those forces that affect us adversely we call evil. Those forces that affect us positively we call good. Both forces appear to be necessary in the creation and maintenance of worlds. But no souls are ever lost to evil.


Sounds like a lie, but it may not be depending on your definition.

How can you know that as a fact?

Have you seen/found/talked with a soul?

Regards
DL

No lie. Yes, I have met some gentle souls. Mitakuye Oyasin.
"We must love one another or die." W.H.Auden
I admit I'm an asshole. Now, can we get back to the conversation?
From the mad poet of McKinley Ave.
Ierrellus
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 12926
Joined: Sat Jun 10, 2006 12:52 pm
Location: state of evolving

Re: Is God good?

Postby Greatest I am » Sun Feb 28, 2021 4:43 pm

Oops
Last edited by Greatest I am on Sun Feb 28, 2021 4:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
Greatest I am
Philosopher
 
Posts: 2454
Joined: Thu Jun 10, 2010 4:07 pm

Re: Is God good?

Postby Greatest I am » Sun Feb 28, 2021 4:44 pm

obsrvr524 wrote:
Greatest I am wrote:
obsrvr524 wrote:Your real situation is your God. You asked if God has a "back".
So I am asking you if your real situation has a "back".


Absolutely.

This explain what I think.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0IqYHiejTVM

I'm not going to watch a video - so if you have an argument for your real situation having a "back" then state it.


I recognize my substance dualism. Do you?

Regards
DL
User avatar
Greatest I am
Philosopher
 
Posts: 2454
Joined: Thu Jun 10, 2010 4:07 pm

Re: Is God good?

Postby thinkdr » Mon Mar 01, 2021 7:41 am

In the original post in this thread, in the End Notes, I informed everyone that "God is my ever-present help." Now I'll elaborate on that, giving more details. In the course of doing this I will touch on topics of illumination, healing, and prosperity. In doing so, I'll offer some affirmations. As I affirm them, during prayer, when I speak to this force called "God," miracles occur in my life -- at least I call them miracles ..as God answers my prayers.

God, my ever-present help, fills me with light: I am guided in making wise decisions. And I am inspired ...with ideas to write about. God fills me with life; I am restored and revitalized. God fills my life with abundant good. I am prosperous and successfull.

In general, God, my ever-present help, fills me with love. I am peaceful, joyfull, and confident.

In your own life, if you have a concern, call it to God's attention. Be affirmative. Believe that God will help - in God's own time. Ask God humbly. Pray, for example, "Come to me as Health." Or draw on God's infinite substance: be prosperous and live long!

What say you? Comments? Questions?
:idea: For further reading and insight into the topics of Ethics check out these links, and thereby add to your reading enjoyment

THE STRUCTURE OF ETHICS
[NEW] :!:
http://www.myqol.com/wadeharvey/PDFs/TH ... ETHICS.pdf


THE BREAKTHROUGH - We Can Get Along After All (2018)
http://myqol.com/wadeharvey/PDFs/BREAKT ... %20all.pdf

LIVING WELL: how ethics helps us flourish
http://www.myqol.com/wadeharvey/PDFs/LI ... ourish.pdf


BASIC ETHICS: a systematic approach
http://www.myqol.com/wadeharvey/PDFs/BASIC%20ETHICS.pdf


ETHICAL ADVENTURES http://wadeharvey.myqol.com/wadeharvey/PDFs/ETHICAL%20ADVENTURES.pdf

When you search Bing for the following pdf selection you may wish to start with page 20 in order to skip the technicalities:
Marvin C. Katz - ETHICS: A College Course
thinkdr
Thinker
 
Posts: 930
Joined: Sat May 12, 2012 7:05 pm

Re: Is God good?

Postby Greatest I am » Mon Mar 01, 2021 3:46 pm

thinkdr wrote:In the original post in this thread, in the End Notes, I informed everyone that "God is my ever-present help." Now I'll elaborate on that, giving more details. In the course of doing this I will touch on topics of illumination, healing, and prosperity. In doing so, I'll offer some affirmations. As I affirm them, during prayer, when I speak to this force called "God," miracles occur in my life -- at least I call them miracles ..as God answers my prayers.

God, my ever-present help, fills me with light: I am guided in making wise decisions. And I am inspired ...with ideas to write about. God fills me with life; I am restored and revitalized. God fills my life with abundant good. I am prosperous and successfull.

In general, God, my ever-present help, fills me with love. I am peaceful, joyfull, and confident.

In your own life, if you have a concern, call it to God's attention. Be affirmative. Believe that God will help - in God's own time. Ask God humbly. Pray, for example, "Come to me as Health." Or draw on God's infinite substance: be prosperous and live long!

What say you? Comments? Questions?


Well, it sounds like delusional garbage from one who has allowed his mind to damage itself with supernatural and stupid beliefs.

But hey, I believe you.

With you pipeline to god, why are millions of children still starving yearly?

Ask you phantom god to get to work.

Regards
DL
User avatar
Greatest I am
Philosopher
 
Posts: 2454
Joined: Thu Jun 10, 2010 4:07 pm

Re: Is God good?

Postby thinkdr » Tue Mar 02, 2021 8:01 am

Hi, DL

I'll answer your question with a question for you: Why are millions of people having children for which they are not able to provide for adequately? Why do they do something that immoral? Is it that they do not know their Ethics?
The male could request a (possibly-reversible) vasectomy. The female could have her tubes tied. (Later they could be untied if she is ready to support her kids, as ell as give them the moral support of(hopefully) wise parenting, coming from either a two-parent family, or from an entire village. ..as we see in North-Africa, or as Israel did in their Kibbutzim.

Or is it that the young girl who gives in to the boy's advances, is ignorant? Or was she forced to submit? Or is she insecure because she is herself love-deprived - or any of a number of other reasons?
Does she live in a culture where birth-control is not available, or kept from being available because the men don't recognize women's rights? Why do the rest of us put up with that? Is it that we do not know our Ethics? Do WE have lousy values?

I have been telling you about a personal relationship I have with my Precious God. Tell me about yourself, DL: did you get a vasectomy so that you could enjoy a good climax? Or did you hook up with a woman who physiologically could no longer have children? Or did you have one child each year for 7-9 years in a row, as did a Roman Catholic family; and as did a Mormon family? I am personally acquainted with both families.
:idea: For further reading and insight into the topics of Ethics check out these links, and thereby add to your reading enjoyment

THE STRUCTURE OF ETHICS
[NEW] :!:
http://www.myqol.com/wadeharvey/PDFs/TH ... ETHICS.pdf


THE BREAKTHROUGH - We Can Get Along After All (2018)
http://myqol.com/wadeharvey/PDFs/BREAKT ... %20all.pdf

LIVING WELL: how ethics helps us flourish
http://www.myqol.com/wadeharvey/PDFs/LI ... ourish.pdf


BASIC ETHICS: a systematic approach
http://www.myqol.com/wadeharvey/PDFs/BASIC%20ETHICS.pdf


ETHICAL ADVENTURES http://wadeharvey.myqol.com/wadeharvey/PDFs/ETHICAL%20ADVENTURES.pdf

When you search Bing for the following pdf selection you may wish to start with page 20 in order to skip the technicalities:
Marvin C. Katz - ETHICS: A College Course
thinkdr
Thinker
 
Posts: 930
Joined: Sat May 12, 2012 7:05 pm

Re: Is God good?

Postby thinkdr » Tue Mar 02, 2021 9:59 am

Hey there, DL

If you're the greatest - and the name you have selected tells us that you are - then you ought to be a great reader, or at least a good reader.

You need to re-read the last paragraph of the Original Post -- especially the second-to-the-last sentence!

Furthermore, I have not taken a stand on whether Intercessory Prayer works beyond one's immediately-close loved ones, such as one's 'better half.' I am open to learning the facts and the truth about this issue.

In a sense, our thoughts are prayers. So we need to be very fussy what thoughts we harbor. Many, who are vulnerable to psychological depression, cannot afford the luxury of a negative thought.
And, As Robert S. Hartman taught, in his writings and classes pessimists. in a sense, are "a little-bit sick," since, by definition, they put a name that does not fit on things and situations. Thus they can call the thing "bad." Dr. Hartman gives many examples and illustrations. If you speak of a slum as "adequate housing" then you are likely to find it to be "bad." You could well judge that something is wrong with it. You are then a fault-finder.
But if you instead - as an optimist - as [someone who, by definition, puts a fitting name on things] - called the set of buildings "a good slum!" it would live up to its name, and thus indeed be good. The optimist finds things to be "good," because he names them properly, and realistically. As the old saying has it, s/he calls a spade "a spade" ...not "a rake" or a "broom."

The point is that an optimist has a healthy mind; a pessimist not so much.

That children are hungry is a good problem to solve. Human beings caused it, not God. Let's get busy in finding a good solution to this problem, and then implementing that solution. Let's not focus on starvation but rather on how to eliminate it in the most-efficient manner possible!
Let's begin by cleaning up our act here at home.
:idea: For further reading and insight into the topics of Ethics check out these links, and thereby add to your reading enjoyment

THE STRUCTURE OF ETHICS
[NEW] :!:
http://www.myqol.com/wadeharvey/PDFs/TH ... ETHICS.pdf


THE BREAKTHROUGH - We Can Get Along After All (2018)
http://myqol.com/wadeharvey/PDFs/BREAKT ... %20all.pdf

LIVING WELL: how ethics helps us flourish
http://www.myqol.com/wadeharvey/PDFs/LI ... ourish.pdf


BASIC ETHICS: a systematic approach
http://www.myqol.com/wadeharvey/PDFs/BASIC%20ETHICS.pdf


ETHICAL ADVENTURES http://wadeharvey.myqol.com/wadeharvey/PDFs/ETHICAL%20ADVENTURES.pdf

When you search Bing for the following pdf selection you may wish to start with page 20 in order to skip the technicalities:
Marvin C. Katz - ETHICS: A College Course
thinkdr
Thinker
 
Posts: 930
Joined: Sat May 12, 2012 7:05 pm

Re: Is God good?

Postby Dan~ » Tue Mar 02, 2021 1:02 pm

That children are hungry is a good problem to solve. Human beings caused it, not God. Let's get busy in finding a good solution to this problem, and then implementing that solution. Let's not focus on starvation but rather on how to eliminate it in the most-efficient manner possible!
Let's begin by cleaning up our act here at home.

I believe that the U.N. is trying to fix this. But the amount that they try could have been far greater.
As far as i know.
I like http://www.accuradio.com , internet radio.
https://dannerz.itch.io/ -- a new and minimal webside now hosting my free game projects.
ImageImage
Truth is based in sensing, in vision. And we can only see when we are alive.
User avatar
Dan~
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 10564
Joined: Thu Nov 24, 2005 8:14 am
Location: Canada Alberta

Re: Is God good?

Postby Sculptor » Tue Mar 02, 2021 4:38 pm

I think the real question is ; "Is God. ?"

WHo says what is good?
Sculptor
 
Posts: 437
Joined: Thu Dec 17, 2020 10:52 pm

Re: Is God good?

Postby pinkladydragon » Tue Mar 02, 2021 5:40 pm

thinkdr wrote:
Is God good?



Before it can be determined whether or not god is good, one has to ask a more fundamental question: Does god exist? More broadly, one has to know the true nature of existence.

I assume you are referring here to the Christian god and will continue as if. Nonetheless, my statements apply to religion in general:

God does not exist. (God is the construct of deluded human minds.) Neither is the god that has been constructed, good. Far from it.

A natural, healthy human being is free and independent. Loss of freedom and independence cause illness and death, death in this case being death of aspects of the self (possibly even of the physical body). Worship is very unhealthy. Firstly, it is over emotional, and this damages the mind. In addition, religions impose moral codes and a host of rules and regulations about how to worship and how to conduct one’s daily life. In other words, the price to the individual of religious belief is loss of independence and of self-determination. Worship puts a person in a cage. Any god, therefore, who would deprive a person of their freedom and, ultimately, kill them, is not a good god.

An example: many incidents in the old testament illustrate god’s cruelty. Abraham was told that he had to sacrifice his son, until he was given a last minute reprieve. That is extremely cruel.

Given the above other questions such as “Is god love?” are redundant. As to love itself, what passes for love in this world is not love. There remains some wisdom still in the Bible. From Corinthians: Love suffereth long, and is kind; love envieth not; love vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up, Doth not behave itself unseemly….

The positive qualities of love listed in that quote most certainly do not apply today. Take, for example, “love vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up”. When one sees the extraordinary lengths people go to, to “show they care”, then one knows that they protest too much. (I refer to Hamlet’s mother, Gertrude, here: “she doth protest too much, methinks”.) When people protest too much then one knows that they are being insincere i.e. lying.

As to Jesus protestations of love, I think that came from the need to put a better spin on the, until then, jealous, vengeful etc., god. Jesus was giving his religion a makeover to win more adherents who would, given what god did to the likes of Abraham, be understandably reluctant to submit themselves to a vengeful, jealous deity.
Regards,

pinkladydragon
User avatar
pinkladydragon
 
Posts: 86
Joined: Mon Sep 16, 2019 10:51 am
Location: Scotland

Re: Is God good?

Postby thinkdr » Wed Mar 03, 2021 3:24 am

I agree with pinklady dragon when she criticizes organized religion.. I have no use for it ...with a few rare exceptions. I shall not go into those now.

And, in a sense, I agree with her conclusion that God does not exist.

God does not merely exist: God is real.

And god is not merely real. I agree with Spinoza that God (which at times he refers to as substance) is "the Reality of all realities.

Evidently pinklady overlooked entirely my definition of "God." Recall that in an early post in this thread I defined "God" as a value ...and values are intangible. I defined it as "the value of all high positive values put together. So God is not only love; God is also Morality, Integrity, Liberty, Community, Friendship, Sincerity, Honesty, Individuality, Freedom, Creativity, Fidelity, Dependability, Reality, Responsibility, Democracy, etc., etc.
No, it is not the Christian conception of god I am talking about. I speak of my own personal idea, my own concept ..although it may share some of the metaphysics of the Unity viewpoint of the Unity School. Hence her recent post commits The Straw Man Fallacy.

In her defense, pbviously she is using a different definition, for a different concept, of God than the one about which this thread was created. She further argues that God limits one, and deprives one of freedom.

Do I look of feel deprived??!? Hardly !! My god-concept definitely ADDS to my freedom, and to my autonomy :!:

God fills me with joy. God blesses me all day long. If it pleases you to "put me down" as having 'an imaginary playmate', or as 'delusional', go ahead and pile on your disparagement, and your curses. I won't let it rob me of my serenity, my peace-of-mind, my confidence, my feeling quite lucky, my deep gratitude for health, life, and - above-all - love.

Yes, God is the Creativity principle, and yes, God is the highest reality, and yes,
God is good.

{I feel sorry for the atheists who miss out on all that goodness! I really do. I notice that the Humanists, and even those who identify with Dewey's Naturalism/Humanism, are super-sensitive to any mention of the word "God." Yet when they congregate and they hold and affirm certain values as ideals, are they not engaging in "religion"? Yes, by Edgar Brightman's definition of the term "religion." }
:idea: For further reading and insight into the topics of Ethics check out these links, and thereby add to your reading enjoyment

THE STRUCTURE OF ETHICS
[NEW] :!:
http://www.myqol.com/wadeharvey/PDFs/TH ... ETHICS.pdf


THE BREAKTHROUGH - We Can Get Along After All (2018)
http://myqol.com/wadeharvey/PDFs/BREAKT ... %20all.pdf

LIVING WELL: how ethics helps us flourish
http://www.myqol.com/wadeharvey/PDFs/LI ... ourish.pdf


BASIC ETHICS: a systematic approach
http://www.myqol.com/wadeharvey/PDFs/BASIC%20ETHICS.pdf


ETHICAL ADVENTURES http://wadeharvey.myqol.com/wadeharvey/PDFs/ETHICAL%20ADVENTURES.pdf

When you search Bing for the following pdf selection you may wish to start with page 20 in order to skip the technicalities:
Marvin C. Katz - ETHICS: A College Course
thinkdr
Thinker
 
Posts: 930
Joined: Sat May 12, 2012 7:05 pm

Re: Is God good?

Postby pinkladydragon » Wed Mar 03, 2021 5:20 pm

thinkdr wrote:I agree with pinklady dragon when she criticizes organized religion.. I have no use for it ...with a few rare exceptions. I shall not go into those now.

And, in a sense, I agree with her conclusion that God does not exist.

God does not merely exist: God is real.

And god is not merely real. I agree with Spinoza that God (which at times he refers to as substance) is "the Reality of all realities.


As to quoting Spinoza, since philosophy has failed to come up with an account of the true nature of reality, then his thoughts on the matter are not relevant. In fact, he is also obfuscating by playing with definitions, as you are doing here. What is relevant here, as I may have said in my previous post, is that neither philosophy nor its off-shoot science, has been able to explain the true nature of existence. No one thus far has explained the true nature of existence. That is one’s starting point.

God fills me with joy. God blesses me all day long. If it pleases you to "put me down" as having 'an imaginary playmate', or as 'delusional', go ahead and pile on your disparagement, and your curses. I won't let it rob me of my serenity, my peace-of-mind, my confidence, my feeling quite lucky, my deep gratitude for health, life, and - above-all - love.


As to people putting you down, you asked a question: Is god good? If all you want is affirmation of your beliefs and opinions, then perhaps you should not ask such questions in the first place, most especially on a philosophy forum.


Evidently pinklady overlooked entirely my definition of "God." Recall that in an early post in this thread I defined "God" as a value ...and values are intangible. I defined it as "the value of all high positive values put together. So God is not only love; God is also Morality, Integrity, Liberty, Community, Friendship, Sincerity, Honesty, Individuality, Freedom, Creativity, Fidelity, Dependability, Reality, Responsibility, Democracy, etc., etc.
No, it is not the Christian conception of god I am talking about. I speak of my own personal idea, my own concept ..although it may share some of the metaphysics of the Unity viewpoint of the Unity School. Hence her recent post commits The Straw Man Fallacy.

In her defense, pbviously she is using a different definition, for a different concept, of God than the one about which this thread was created. She further argues that God limits one, and deprives one of freedom.

Do I look of feel deprived??!? Hardly !! My god-concept definitely ADDS to my freedom, and to my autonomy :!:


The existence of god is not about definitions. Playing with definitions will only get one helplessly bogged down in detail. One has to be able to see the wood for the trees. So, forget definitions. The fundamental question is: Is there a god? No, there is not. Gods do not exist. And the reason is perfectly simple to explain when you understand how the mind works. Furthermore, this explanation applies to any god in any religion.

First, delusion. It is a common enough mental illness. I had a lot of contact with a mental health organization at my previous home. I mixed with people with a variety of mental illnesses, including someone who was delusional. He thought he was King of Scotland. Other delusions which are more accepted and often considered, wrongly, as “normal” include the little girl who is “Daddy’s Little Princess”. The princess is the daughter who has been spoiled by her father. By being treated like a princess, she comes to expect adoration, to be the centre of attention, and to having her wishes obeyed as though they were royal decrees. In short, this daughter learns that she can wrap her father round her little finger and eventually expects to be able to do that with everyone. When she grows up, she expects the world to treat her as royalty, and when they do not, she feels herself ill-used. That is delusional behaviour. It is very common.

As to delusion in religion, you first look at the creation myths of whatever religion you are examining. These are interpretable and will reveal that the adherents of that religion were, in the beginning, albeit unwittingly, delusional. Specifically, the founders of the religion considered themselves to be gods. They might, for example, have considered themselves to be all-knowing and all-seeing. They certainly expected to be worshipped and adored as well as to be able to lay down the law. This, you might say, is the ultimate delusion of grandeur. And this delusion, like the princess delusion, is also a common affliction in this world.

My own father certainly expected his wife and children to adore him and he definitely laid down the law in the home. He may not have been so deluded as to think himself a god, but he certainly behaved round the house as if he were a monarch, expecting his wife and his children to run around after him e.g. to have his meal on the table the minute he set foot in the house, no matter the hour. Actually, upon reflection, he was more than a monarch. But he was not quite a god. Thus, my father was afflicted with a demi-god delusion. (The Greek myths are full of demi-gods such as my father.)

The above, then, is a potted account of how religions arose.


You say that god is morality as well as love. You do not know what love is, otherwise you would not mention morality as an attribute. Morality is redundant when people are capable of love. The love you talk about is heartless.

What is love? To love, you must have a heart. Therefore love, real love, is wanting the best for everyone, no matter who, no matter how they have treated you. (Wanting the best for everyone does not necessarily mean molly-coddling them or wrapping them in cotton wool. Nor is love about self-sacrifice. Love is win-win, not lose-lose.)

As to morality, morality is a set of rules by which one should live. A person who has a heart does not need morality. A person who has a heart behaves naturally, behaves well, no matter what. Morailty is about prevention, not cure. If a person is not behaving well, then forcing them to obey rules will only make them worse. The cure for someone who behaves badly is to establish why they behave badly and then to cure them.


One last point about religion. It is very noticeable that people often turn to religion in times of need, not before. My neighbour is such a person. She was going through an extremely bad patch in her life, a sort of mid-life crisis, when, in desperate need of succour, she took to religion. Now she is very devout. However, she is no different from other aging people in this world. Despite her religion, her life is quite clearly going downhill - she has forsaken all her other interests and is now completely dependent on her religious friends. In short, she is closing down. She is dying. Her complete and utter dependence on religion is not freedom.
Regards,

pinkladydragon
User avatar
pinkladydragon
 
Posts: 86
Joined: Mon Sep 16, 2019 10:51 am
Location: Scotland

Re: Is God good?

Postby iambiguous » Wed Mar 03, 2021 6:30 pm

Just a reminder for those here interested in exploring either the existence of God or in speculating on a God, the God, your God's nature, that my own approach to all of this is more...existential. So, if you ever feel the need to bring your spiritual contraptions "out into the world" of actual human interactions, here are my own areas of interest:

I inevitably turn discussions of God and religion into exchanges regarding the actual behaviors that people choose on this side of the grave given that which they believe or would like the fate of "I" to be on the other side of the grave.

Or to discussions of theodicy.

Or the efforts of those who do believe in a God or a No God religious path to at least make an attempt to demonstrate to us how they demonstrate to themselves that what they believe "in their head" can be demonstrated to in fact be true. Especially given that there are hundreds and hundreds of conflicting paths out there...and with so much at stake.

Finally, discussions that revolve around the chief component of own philosophy here: the role that dasein plays in forming individual points of view about God and religion.


Bring your conjectures here: https://www.ilovephilosophy.com/viewtop ... 5&t=186929
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

Start here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=176529
Then here: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=185296
And here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=194382
User avatar
iambiguous
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 40822
Joined: Tue Nov 16, 2010 8:03 pm
Location: baltimore maryland

Re: Is God good?

Postby Greatest I am » Thu Mar 04, 2021 4:42 pm

thinkdr wrote:Hi, DL

I'll answer your question with a question for you: .


A good way to deflect from your inability to answer.

Thanks for the chat.

Regards
DL
User avatar
Greatest I am
Philosopher
 
Posts: 2454
Joined: Thu Jun 10, 2010 4:07 pm

Previous

Return to Religion and Spirituality



Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users