Why does god put the needs of the few above the needs of the

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Why does god put the needs of the few above the needs of the

Postby Greatest I am » Wed Dec 23, 2020 4:33 pm

Why does god put the needs of the few above the needs of the many?

That moral tenet is about the only objective moral tenet I know of that has not been shown to ever be subjective. Yahweh seems to be doing the wrong thing.

We are told that most of us will end on the wide road to hell while the few end on the narrow path to heaven.

It is demonstrable that nature creates for the best possible end.

Why does Yahweh not follow the better rules he gave nature, and creates us for the worst possible end for the vast majority of us?

A decent father would not have the morals or ethics Yahweh seems to follow.

If true, then we end with more souls lost to Satan than souls saved by Yahweh. Even as scriptures say that Yahweh wills that all souls be saved.

God not getting his will is not allowed. God must always come out ahead. Something is not right for god.

Thoughts?

Regards
DL
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Re: Why does god put the needs of the few above the needs of

Postby Shepherdess » Wed Dec 23, 2020 8:36 pm

Greatest I am wrote:Why does god put the needs of the few above the needs of the many?

That moral tenet is about the only objective moral tenet I know of that has not been shown to ever be subjective. Yahweh seems to be doing the wrong thing.

We are told that most of us will end on the wide road to hell while the few end on the narrow path to heaven.

It is demonstrable that nature creates for the best possible end.

Why does Yahweh not follow the better rules he gave nature, and creates us for the worst possible end for the vast majority of us?

A decent father would not have the morals or ethics Yahweh seems to follow.

If true, then we end with more souls lost to Satan than souls saved by Yahweh. Even as scriptures say that Yahweh wills that all souls be saved.

God not getting his will is not allowed. God must always come out ahead. Something is not right for god.

Thoughts?

Regards
DL


You probably, like many if not most, see it that way because you have painted God into your own image and likeness.
What we see is who we are.
We so love to simplify God, believe that we know God. Why can we not accept the challenge and the difficulty of not knowing? I know. Why can we not love the mystery and go about learning of God by being objective and seeing with eyes which are apart from God? Personalizing this God creates our own image...not one which can be real.
"It is by going down into the abyss that we recover the treasures of life. Where you stumble, there lies your treasure."
Joseph Campbell

"In the woods, we return to reason and faith. There I feel nothing can befall me in life, - no disgrace, no calamity, (leaving me my eyes,) which nature cannot repair. Standing on the bare ground, - my head bathed by the blithe air, and uplifted into infinite space, - all mean egotism vanishes. I become a transparent eye-ball; I am nothing; I see all; the currents of the Universal Being circulate through me; I am part or particle of God."
Ralph Waldo Emerson

"No way of thinking or doing, however ancient, can be trusted without proof. What everybody echoes or in silence passes by as true today may turn out to be falsehood tomorrow, mere smoke of opinion, which some had trusted for a cloud that would sprinkle fertilizing rain on their fields."
Thoreau
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Re: Why does god put the needs of the few above the needs of

Postby Greatest I am » Wed Dec 23, 2020 8:53 pm

Shepherdess wrote:
Greatest I am wrote:Why does god put the needs of the few above the needs of the many?

That moral tenet is about the only objective moral tenet I know of that has not been shown to ever be subjective. Yahweh seems to be doing the wrong thing.

We are told that most of us will end on the wide road to hell while the few end on the narrow path to heaven.

It is demonstrable that nature creates for the best possible end.

Why does Yahweh not follow the better rules he gave nature, and creates us for the worst possible end for the vast majority of us?

A decent father would not have the morals or ethics Yahweh seems to follow.

If true, then we end with more souls lost to Satan than souls saved by Yahweh. Even as scriptures say that Yahweh wills that all souls be saved.

God not getting his will is not allowed. God must always come out ahead. Something is not right for god.

Thoughts?

Regards
DL


You probably, like many if not most, see it that way because you have painted God into your own image and likeness.
What we see is who we are.
We so love to simplify God, believe that we know God. Why can we not accept the challenge and the difficulty of not knowing? I know. Why can we not love the mystery and go about learning of God by being objective and seeing with eyes which are apart from God? Personalizing this God creates our own image...not one which can be real.


I only know of one god and he is not in the books yet.

The issue is the moral tenet that Yahweh is not following, as per the bible.

I care not of the image of the genocidal one, and do not see myself as genocidal, so you might want to get on topic.

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DL
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Re: Why does god put the needs of the few above the needs of

Postby Mr J » Thu Dec 24, 2020 9:02 pm

Christians are the ultimate moral or ethical hypocrites and their crucified God the greatest lying charlatan.

When I come across a Christian talking about the need to lecture others on morality or ethics I just laugh at them frankly.

A dog is more loyal, moral, and ethical than your average modern Christian.
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Re: Why does god put the needs of the few above the needs of

Postby WendyDarling » Thu Dec 24, 2020 9:15 pm

Greatest I am wrote:Why does god put the needs of the few above the needs of the many?

That moral tenet is about the only objective moral tenet I know of that has not been shown to ever be subjective. Yahweh seems to be doing the wrong thing.

We are told that most of us will end on the wide road to hell while the few end on the narrow path to heaven.

It is demonstrable that nature creates for the best possible end.

Why does Yahweh not follow the better rules he gave nature, and creates us for the worst possible end for the vast majority of us?

A decent father would not have the morals or ethics Yahweh seems to follow.

If true, then we end with more souls lost to Satan than souls saved by Yahweh. Even as scriptures say that Yahweh wills that all souls be saved.

God not getting his will is not allowed. God must always come out ahead. Something is not right for god.

Thoughts?

Regards
DL

What are the demonstrations that nature creates for the best possible ends? I’ve been wondering about this lately and brought it up as progress in regards to humans.
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Re: Why does god put the needs of the few above the needs of

Postby Greatest I am » Fri Dec 25, 2020 6:33 pm

Zero_Sum wrote:Christians are the ultimate moral or ethical hypocrites and their crucified God the greatest lying charlatan.

When I come across a Christian talking about the need to lecture others on morality or ethics I just laugh at them frankly.

A dog is more loyal, moral, and ethical than your average modern Christian.


You are speaking more of the far right than the majority. The majority ,I would class as secular, to near acceptance of Laïcité.

Religions are not so much the enemy. It is the vile gods like Yahweh and their fascist ideologies that create such right wing literalist extremists.

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DL
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Re: Why does god put the needs of the few above the needs of

Postby Greatest I am » Fri Dec 25, 2020 6:38 pm

WendyDarling wrote:
Greatest I am wrote:Why does god put the needs of the few above the needs of the many?

That moral tenet is about the only objective moral tenet I know of that has not been shown to ever be subjective. Yahweh seems to be doing the wrong thing.

We are told that most of us will end on the wide road to hell while the few end on the narrow path to heaven.

It is demonstrable that nature creates for the best possible end.

Why does Yahweh not follow the better rules he gave nature, and creates us for the worst possible end for the vast majority of us?

A decent father would not have the morals or ethics Yahweh seems to follow.

If true, then we end with more souls lost to Satan than souls saved by Yahweh. Even as scriptures say that Yahweh wills that all souls be saved.

God not getting his will is not allowed. God must always come out ahead. Something is not right for god.

Thoughts?

Regards
DL

What are the demonstrations that nature creates for the best possible ends? I’ve been wondering about this lately and brought it up as progress in regards to humans.


The proof is within you.

Do you have children?

If so, as a piece of nature and life, what is your desire for your child?

I bet it is a best possible end.

We also live in the best of all possible worlds, given our history, and the best would want an eternal system based on the best and not the worst.

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DL
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Re: Why does god put the needs of the few above the needs of

Postby Greatest I am » Fri Dec 25, 2020 6:40 pm

Can you help but do evil? I do not see how. Do you?
And if you cannot, why would God punish you?

Christians are always trying to absolve God of moral culpability in the fall by putting forward their free will argument and placing all the blame on mankind.
That usually sounds like ----God gave us free will and it was our free willed choices that caused our fall. Hence God is not blameworthy. Such statements simply avoid God's culpability as the author and creator of human nature.

Free will is only the ability to choose. It is not an explanation why anyone would want to choose "A" or "B" (bad or good action). An explanation for why Eve would even have the nature of "being vulnerable to being easily swayed by a serpent" and "desiring to eat a forbidden fruit" must lie in the nature God gave Eve in the first place. Hence God is culpable for deliberately making humans with a nature-inclined-to-fall, and "free will" means nothing as a response to this problem.

If all do evil/sin by nature then, the evil/sin nature is dominant. If not, we would have at least some who would not do evil/sin. Can we then help but do evil? I do not see how. Do you?

Having said the above for the God that I do not believe in, I am a Gnostic Christian naturalist, let me tell you that evil and sin is all human generated and in this sense, I agree with Christians, but for completely different reasons. Evil is mankind’s responsibility and not some imaginary God’s. Free will is something that can only be taken. Free will cannot be given not even by a God unless it has been forcibly withheld.

Much has been written to explain evil and sin but I see as a natural part of evolution.

Consider.
First, let us eliminate what some see as evil. Natural disasters. These are unthinking occurrences and are neither good nor evil. There is no intent to do evil even as victims are created. Without intent to do evil, no act should be called evil.
In secular courts, this is called mens rea. Latin for an evil mind or intent and without it, the court will not find someone guilty even if they know that they are the perpetrator of the act.

Evil then is only human to human when they know they are doing evil and intend harm.

As evolving creatures, all we ever do, and ever can do, is compete or cooperate.
Cooperation we would see as good as there are no victims created. Competition would be seen as evil as it creates a victim. We all are either cooperating, doing good, or competing, doing evil, at all times.

Without us doing some of both, we would likely go extinct.

This, to me, explains why there is evil in the world quite well.

Be you a believer in nature, evolution or God, you should see that what Christians see as something to blame, evil, we should see that what we have, competition, deserves a huge thanks for being available to us. Wherever it came from, God or nature, without evolution we would go extinct. We must do good and evil.

There is no conflict between nature and God on this issue. This is how things are and should be. We all must do what some will think is evil as we compete and create losers to this competition.

This link speak to theistic evolution.

http://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-new ... 66/?no-ist

If theistic evolution is true, then the myth of Eden should be read as a myth and there is not really any original sin.

Doing evil then is actually forced on us by evolution and the need to survive. Our default position is to cooperate or to do good. I offer this clip as proof of this. You will note that we default to good as it is better for survival.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HBW5vdhr_PA

Can you help but do evil? I do not see how. Do you?
And if you cannot, why would God punish you?

Regards
DL
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