What will win the god wars?

For intuitive and critical discussions, from spirituality to theological doctrines. Fair warning: because the subject matter is personal, moderation is strict.

Moderator: Dan~

Re: What will win the god wars?

Postby Mad Man P » Tue Dec 08, 2020 10:51 pm

WendyDarling wrote:Does fear of the unknown usually stop you?


It's my love for the fight, that makes me fear it's end.
Luckily the fight is in me, so no need to fear, for the fight to end, I must cease to be... so I will never know peace or death.
And if death is not the end of me and there is some cosmic afterlife, then I would want to go to Odin's Hall where I may fight yet again, strive yet again, until the end of all things.

Greatest I am wrote:Do you better your mind by winning or losing an argument?


The fight is in all things, whether I'm staving off my own worst impulses, solving a problem at work or training my body to do something better, it's not merely debate... but It hardly matters, the answer is the same.
Every battle is a teacher... even when I win, on careful reflection, I often realise I could have won more gracefully, more expediently or that I actually lost, but for an oversight on the part of my opponent or just dumb luck.
There are no stupid questions, just stupid people.
User avatar
Mad Man P
Philosopher
 
Posts: 2642
Joined: Thu Jan 27, 2005 7:32 pm
Location: Denmark

Re: What will win the god wars?

Postby iambiguous » Tue Dec 08, 2020 10:59 pm

Greatest I am wrote:
iambiguous wrote:[ essentially meaningless existence tumbling over into the abyss go away. I spent years nurturing my own soul to keep all that at bay.


We likely do not define soul the same way as I use the Gnostic Christian definition. This aside.


Define the soul? How about actually demonstrating the existence of a human soul. Your own for example. Now, I'm not arguing that the soul doesn't exist. And, sure, it might weigh 21 grams. But: I'm asking you to demonstrate it to the best of your ability...given the possible consequences for those who choose to believe in a God other than your own.

You can't put so much weight in your own understanding of God and then just shrug off the part where those who believe in another God ask you to demonstrate why it is your God instead. Again, with so much at stake!

How seriously do you take your own faith when, from my perspective, it all seems to revolve solely around the things that that you believe "here and now" in your head.

Yes, I'd like to believe that immortality and salvation are possible myself if I can narrow it all down to the right God.

So, why is it yours? And not one worshipped and adored by all the other denominations? And that's just on this planet. Imagine how many other advanced civilizations there might be able to think up their own Gods. There must be millions and millions of them by now. Given the staggering vastness of the cosmos.

Greatest I am wrote: I do not see most as having meaningless existence. I think if many did, the suicide rate would be a lot higher than it is.

Most have a meaning to their lives or they would end them.


Yeah, I focused on just that sort of meaning here:

How hard is it to find meaning in life? There are countless paths you can take. In business. In the arts. In sports. In relationships. In families. In hobbies. In education. In social and political interactions. Things become meaningful here because from day to day they are attached to the satisfaction and the fulfillment that participating in all these different things can provide.

Instead, what some find hard is in anchoring existential meaning to one or another overarching essential meaning of life. An ontological and teleological font that enables you to tie all the things you do to some all encompassing meaning. Whether anchored to God or to any number of secular Humanisms. And, in failing to accomplish this, some can become quite disturbed.

And, as well, rooted in dasein, some never go searching for this at all. They are either content to feed off the gratification that their day to day commitments provide, or they choose instead to make it all about accumulating experiences that simply bring them pleasure. Hedonists for example.


Clearly, religion does encompass a whole other kind of meaning. A meaning that pins down the right thing to do on this side of the grave in order to attain immortality and salvation on the other side of it. The part you want everyone to just assume that because you think about it the way you do, you can come here in order to spread the word so that others will think the same.

Or else? Some faiths emphasize that more than others.
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

Start here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=176529
Then here: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=185296
And here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=194382
User avatar
iambiguous
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 39778
Joined: Tue Nov 16, 2010 8:03 pm
Location: baltimore maryland

Re: What will win the god wars?

Postby Greatest I am » Tue Dec 08, 2020 11:04 pm

Mad Man P wrote:Every battle is a teacher....


True. For the loser.

I do not see it teaching the winner, unless the winner actually learn something new.

A grade school or university teacher gains no new knowledge when teaching the children.

There might be some other gain or satisfaction for doing a good teaching job.

This short clip might be of interest.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JTN9Nx8 ... e=youtu.be

Regards
DL
User avatar
Greatest I am
Philosopher
 
Posts: 2424
Joined: Thu Jun 10, 2010 4:07 pm

Re: What will win the god wars?

Postby WendyDarling » Tue Dec 08, 2020 11:07 pm

Let me see the hands of those who enter a church and equate it with a parking lot or a laundromat, those who enter and feel nothing at all but it’s just another place like any other common place?
Member of The Coalition of Truth - member #2/2

"facts change all the time and not only that, they don't mean anything...."-Peter Kropotkin :evilfun:
"I can hope they have some degree of self-awareness but the facts suggest that
they don't..... "- Peter Kropotkin
. :evilfun:
"you don't know the value of facts and you don't know the value of the ‘TRUTH”... " -Peter Kropotkin :lol:
User avatar
WendyDarling
Heroine
 
Posts: 8311
Joined: Sat Sep 11, 2010 8:52 am
Location: Hades

Re: What will win the god wars?

Postby Pedro I Rengel » Tue Dec 08, 2020 11:14 pm

Greatest I am wrote:
Pedro I Rengel wrote:You don't even believe in God you said a literal beliefs in Gods is only for the gullible.

Could you possibly be trying to manipulate people?


Absolutely



Thank you.

Regards
PR
User avatar
Pedro I Rengel
ᛈᛖᛉᛖᛉ
 
Posts: 8792
Joined: Mon Feb 05, 2018 2:55 pm

Re: What will win the god wars?

Postby WendyDarling » Tue Dec 08, 2020 11:20 pm

A conscience is an integral aspect of a soul. Are any born without a conscience, a soul? Dunno
Member of The Coalition of Truth - member #2/2

"facts change all the time and not only that, they don't mean anything...."-Peter Kropotkin :evilfun:
"I can hope they have some degree of self-awareness but the facts suggest that
they don't..... "- Peter Kropotkin
. :evilfun:
"you don't know the value of facts and you don't know the value of the ‘TRUTH”... " -Peter Kropotkin :lol:
User avatar
WendyDarling
Heroine
 
Posts: 8311
Joined: Sat Sep 11, 2010 8:52 am
Location: Hades

Re: What will win the god wars?

Postby Greatest I am » Tue Dec 08, 2020 11:27 pm

iambiguous wrote:
Greatest I am wrote:
iambiguous wrote:[ essentially meaningless existence tumbling over into the abyss go away. I spent years nurturing my own soul to keep all that at bay.


We likely do not define soul the same way as I use the Gnostic Christian definition. This aside.


Define the soul? How about actually demonstrating the existence of a human soul. Your own for example. Now, I'm not arguing that the soul doesn't exist. And, sure, it might weigh 21 grams. But: I'm asking you to demonstrate it to the best of your ability...given the possible consequences for those who choose to believe in a God other than your own.

You can't put so much weight in your own understanding of God and then just shrug off the part where those who believe in another God ask you to demonstrate why it is your God instead. Again, with so much at stake!

How seriously do you take your own faith when, from my perspective, it all seems to revolve solely around the things that that you believe "here and now" in your head.

Yes, I'd like to believe that immortality and salvation are possible myself if I can narrow it all down to the right God.

So, why is it yours? And not one worshipped and adored by all the other denominations? And that's just on this planet. Imagine how many other advanced civilizations there might be able to think up their own Gods. There must be millions and millions of them by now. Given the staggering vastness of the cosmos.

Greatest I am wrote: I do not see most as having meaningless existence. I think if many did, the suicide rate would be a lot higher than it is.

Most have a meaning to their lives or they would end them.


Yeah, I focused on just that sort of meaning here:

How hard is it to find meaning in life? There are countless paths you can take. In business. In the arts. In sports. In relationships. In families. In hobbies. In education. In social and political interactions. Things become meaningful here because from day to day they are attached to the satisfaction and the fulfillment that participating in all these different things can provide.

Instead, what some find hard is in anchoring existential meaning to one or another overarching essential meaning of life. An ontological and teleological font that enables you to tie all the things you do to some all encompassing meaning. Whether anchored to God or to any number of secular Humanisms. And, in failing to accomplish this, some can become quite disturbed.

And, as well, rooted in dasein, some never go searching for this at all. They are either content to feed off the gratification that their day to day commitments provide, or they choose instead to make it all about accumulating experiences that simply bring them pleasure. Hedonists for example.


Clearly, religion does encompass a whole other kind of meaning. A meaning that pins down the right thing to do on this side of the grave in order to attain immortality and salvation on the other side of it. The part you want everyone to just assume that because you think about it the way you do, you can come here in order to spread the word so that others will think the same.

Or else? Some faiths emphasize that more than others.


Let's see if we can agree on a definition of soul. If we cant, then it is pointless to talk of it.

I will show our mythos and then my logos on the soul, which is all I will argue as arguing our myths is pointless. Our was written to put against the Christian myth when everyone was bright enough to not read myths literally.

Our myth.
http://gnosis.org/naghamm/exe.html

Our reality.

Gnostic Jesus was questioned as to what sees the vision?

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline ... /mary.html

The Saviour answered and said, 'He does not see through the soul nor through the spirit, but the mind which [is] between the two - that is [what] sees the vision...'

For where the mind is, there is the treasure.

===================

Christianity does not quite agree, wording wise, with us.

Matthew 6:21 For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.

FMPOV.
Our hearts just confirm that the vision produced by our minds is the treasure.

Note that soul and spirit are not active and likely are the same.

My own Gnosis and apotheosis has me thinking of the soul as the conduit with which our mind seeks and find our god within us. Spirit is just our life force.

Regards
DL
User avatar
Greatest I am
Philosopher
 
Posts: 2424
Joined: Thu Jun 10, 2010 4:07 pm

Re: What will win the god wars?

Postby Mad Man P » Tue Dec 08, 2020 11:34 pm

Greatest I am wrote:
Mad Man P wrote:Every battle is a teacher....

True. For the loser.


Losers, often quit.. and learn nothing
Just as winners often rest on their laurels, and stagnate.

Lots of people seek "peace" or contentment and avoid the fight...

Whether your learn something has nothing to with whether you win or lose...
But whether you have the fight in you and are therefore willing and eager to reflect on what transpired to discover and explore the room you have for improvement.

I do not see it teaching the winner, unless the winner actually learn something new.


Greater experience does often imply greater ability and insight for a reason...
Doing, successfully, does not mean doing perfectly and with experience, repetition, one might strive toward that perfection well past the "sufficient" mark.
Last edited by Mad Man P on Tue Dec 08, 2020 11:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
There are no stupid questions, just stupid people.
User avatar
Mad Man P
Philosopher
 
Posts: 2642
Joined: Thu Jan 27, 2005 7:32 pm
Location: Denmark

Re: What will win the god wars?

Postby Greatest I am » Tue Dec 08, 2020 11:37 pm

iambiguous wrote: immortality


Immortality is the worse curse I can think of.

We would all eventually be living in a state where we would prefer to die.

Perhaps that is why nothing is immortal that is made from matter.

All order goes to disorder eventually.

Regards
DL
User avatar
Greatest I am
Philosopher
 
Posts: 2424
Joined: Thu Jun 10, 2010 4:07 pm

Re: What will win the god wars?

Postby WendyDarling » Tue Dec 08, 2020 11:42 pm

The soul/spirit is not made of matter but of energy. When you mind and heart aline in love you can feel it radiate out of your soul.
Member of The Coalition of Truth - member #2/2

"facts change all the time and not only that, they don't mean anything...."-Peter Kropotkin :evilfun:
"I can hope they have some degree of self-awareness but the facts suggest that
they don't..... "- Peter Kropotkin
. :evilfun:
"you don't know the value of facts and you don't know the value of the ‘TRUTH”... " -Peter Kropotkin :lol:
User avatar
WendyDarling
Heroine
 
Posts: 8311
Joined: Sat Sep 11, 2010 8:52 am
Location: Hades

Re: What will win the god wars?

Postby Greatest I am » Tue Dec 08, 2020 11:42 pm

Mad Man P wrote:
Whether your learn something has nothing to with whether you win or lose... rk.


Sigh.

Tell that to a student who fails to get his diploma.

Tell him how much of a winner he is, when he cannot produce it to get the job he wants.

Regards
DL
User avatar
Greatest I am
Philosopher
 
Posts: 2424
Joined: Thu Jun 10, 2010 4:07 pm

Re: What will win the god wars?

Postby Greatest I am » Tue Dec 08, 2020 11:47 pm

WendyDarling wrote:The soul/spirit is not made of matter but of energy. When you mind and heart aline in love you can feel it radiate out of your soul.


That energy has yet to be proven to exist.

We cannot track that many sub-atomic particles, even though we have learned to use mental waves to do work in the real world. Mostly in games.

Regards
DL
User avatar
Greatest I am
Philosopher
 
Posts: 2424
Joined: Thu Jun 10, 2010 4:07 pm

Re: What will win the god wars?

Postby Greatest I am » Tue Dec 08, 2020 11:51 pm

WendyDarling wrote:A conscience is an integral aspect of a soul. Are any born without a conscience, a soul? Dunno


You seem to not want to leave much for our minds to do.

Consciousness is comprised of thoughts. Right?

Your mind is known to think, so why do you give that job to a soul, that as far as we know, cannot think?

Are you a science denier?

Regards
DL
User avatar
Greatest I am
Philosopher
 
Posts: 2424
Joined: Thu Jun 10, 2010 4:07 pm

Re: What will win the god wars?

Postby Mad Man P » Wed Dec 09, 2020 12:08 am

Greatest I am wrote:
Mad Man P wrote:
Whether your learn something has nothing to with whether you win or lose...
But whether you have the fight in you and are therefore willing and eager to reflect on what transpired to discover and explore the room you have for improvement.


Sigh.

Tell that to a student who fails to get his diploma.

Tell him how much of a winner he is, when he cannot produce it to get the job he wants.


You've inverted my meaning.
You my friend have lost the plot of this conversation and are now speaking to a strawman... I shall leave you to it.
There are no stupid questions, just stupid people.
User avatar
Mad Man P
Philosopher
 
Posts: 2642
Joined: Thu Jan 27, 2005 7:32 pm
Location: Denmark

Re: What will win the god wars?

Postby WendyDarling » Wed Dec 09, 2020 12:22 am

Greatest, you haven’t felt love or even joy radiate out of you directed at another being and that mingling of fantastically powerful energies? Same with rage, that negative energy pouring out of you from your eyes all the way down to your ribcage? Eyes to lower ribs/stomach is where the soul rests within you and that’s where you feel the most energy.

The soul is an energy body located in your physical body and it works in tandem with your mind but the mind receives information from your conscience and your physical brain working together simultaneously. Spiritual practitioners into chakras note more areas that are energy conduits but I only recognize three as important, so far.
Member of The Coalition of Truth - member #2/2

"facts change all the time and not only that, they don't mean anything...."-Peter Kropotkin :evilfun:
"I can hope they have some degree of self-awareness but the facts suggest that
they don't..... "- Peter Kropotkin
. :evilfun:
"you don't know the value of facts and you don't know the value of the ‘TRUTH”... " -Peter Kropotkin :lol:
User avatar
WendyDarling
Heroine
 
Posts: 8311
Joined: Sat Sep 11, 2010 8:52 am
Location: Hades

Re: What will win the god wars?

Postby Urwrongx1000 » Wed Dec 09, 2020 1:49 am

Start here and watch the whole 8 hours:

Urwrongx1000
Philosopher
 
Posts: 4393
Joined: Mon Jun 19, 2017 5:10 pm

Re: What will win the god wars?

Postby Pedro I Rengel » Wed Dec 09, 2020 1:56 am

Lol Sam Harris is a straight up white supremacist.
User avatar
Pedro I Rengel
ᛈᛖᛉᛖᛉ
 
Posts: 8792
Joined: Mon Feb 05, 2018 2:55 pm

Previous

Return to Religion and Spirituality



Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot]