What will win the god wars?

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What will win the god wars?

Postby Greatest I am » Mon Dec 07, 2020 10:40 pm

What will win the god wars? Faith, Fantasy, Facts, or God?

We are all either using religious or secular moral codes to live by; based on faith, fantasy, facts, or our imagined gods?

As we live and learn, we decide which of the above should take first place as reality and we decide to be believers in a supernatural or fantasy-based god or not.

Religion Has No Earthly Purpose, So Why Do We Cling to It? | Reza Aslan - YouTube

We only have mythos and logos to answer the question, is God real?

Books of wisdom, the bible and Qur’an being pathetic late comers, ask us to come and reason about God, yet most come to do long winded, bla bla bla posts, and quote others, and thus do not learn how to reason.

Reason has lost, but what do you think will win the God war? Faith, fantasy, facts, or our imagined Gods?

I say my God. I am.

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Re: What will win the god wars?

Postby iambiguous » Mon Dec 07, 2020 10:49 pm

How about solid and indisputable proof from one of the hundreds and hundreds of religious denominations out there that a God, the God, their God does in fact exist.

This God then comes down here and does things that no rational human being could deny is in fact proof of His existence.

That would constitute the winner in this war for me.

How about you? What would it take for you to declare a winner?

Surely, it can't just be what you believe about God "in your head".
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

Start here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=176529
Then here: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=185296
And here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=194382
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Re: What will win the god wars?

Postby Greatest I am » Tue Dec 08, 2020 6:05 pm

iambiguous wrote:How about solid and indisputable proof from one of the hundreds and hundreds of religious denominations out there that a God, the God, their God does in fact exist.

This God then comes down here and does things that no rational human being could deny is in fact proof of His existence.

That would constitute the winner in this war for me.

How about you? What would it take for you to declare a winner?

Surely, it can't just be what you believe about God "in your head".


Think like a naturalist.

You and I were born with our DNA telling us we were the best of our line, which was a truth if we were the youngest of our line.

If any god popped up, I would challenge him and not just roll over.

I owe our species that much.

In nature, all species have one of their own as the ideal. We can see that as king or god.

For our species to allow some other species, even a holy one, to lead us, would be us being a traitor to our own race.

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Re: What will win the god wars?

Postby iambiguous » Tue Dec 08, 2020 6:21 pm

Greatest I am wrote:
iambiguous wrote:How about solid and indisputable proof from one of the hundreds and hundreds of religious denominations out there that a God, the God, their God does in fact exist.

This God then comes down here and does things that no rational human being could deny is in fact proof of His existence.

That would constitute the winner in this war for me.

How about you? What would it take for you to declare a winner?

Surely, it can't just be what you believe about God "in your head".


Think like a naturalist.

You and I were born with our DNA telling us we were the best of our line, which was a truth if we were the youngest of our line.

If any god popped up, I would challenge him and not just roll over.

I owe our species that much.

In nature, all species have one of their own as the ideal. We can see that as king or god.

For our species to allow some other species, even a holy one, to lead us, would be us being a traitor to our own race.

Regards
DL


The gap between my point and yours may well be beyond grasping. Let alone closing.

The God wars continue as far as I am concerned.

I'll need a considerably more concrete rendering of the winner.
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

Start here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=176529
Then here: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=185296
And here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=194382
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Re: What will win the god wars?

Postby Greatest I am » Tue Dec 08, 2020 6:37 pm

iambiguous wrote:
Greatest I am wrote:
iambiguous wrote:How about solid and indisputable proof from one of the hundreds and hundreds of religious denominations out there that a God, the God, their God does in fact exist.

This God then comes down here and does things that no rational human being could deny is in fact proof of His existence.

That would constitute the winner in this war for me.

How about you? What would it take for you to declare a winner?

Surely, it can't just be what you believe about God "in your head".


Think like a naturalist.

You and I were born with our DNA telling us we were the best of our line, which was a truth if we were the youngest of our line.

If any god popped up, I would challenge him and not just roll over.

I owe our species that much.

In nature, all species have one of their own as the ideal. We can see that as king or god.

For our species to allow some other species, even a holy one, to lead us, would be us being a traitor to our own race.

Regards
DL


The gap between my point and yours may well be beyond grasping. Let alone closing.

The God wars continue as far as I am concerned.

I'll need a considerably more concrete rendering of the winner.


If the immorality of the Christianity's ideology does not do it for you, then morals are not your focus, and should be.

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Re: What will win the god wars?

Postby Ecmandu » Tue Dec 08, 2020 6:40 pm

The winner is extremely simple:

When all beings are god, without violating the consent of a single being in existence.

This requires thinking outside the box.

Anything less, is a winner in a win/lose reality, and that is a loser.
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Re: What will win the god wars?

Postby iambiguous » Tue Dec 08, 2020 6:54 pm

Greatest I am wrote:
If the immorality of the Christianity's ideology does not do it for you, then morals are not your focus, and should be.


But my point is that there are hundreds of other religious paths out there and those on them would suggest in turn that if their ideology does not do it for me...

Then what?

And if morals is your focus you know by now where I go with that: morality here and now begetting immortality there and then.

Only in regard to what actual set of circumstances in which the conflicting spiritual ideologies go after our souls.

Why your ideology and not their own?

And, as an atheist eyeball to eyeball with the abyss, I'm very much in favor of someone winning the God wars. Then introducing us to the God. Where I am at least given the chance to make my case on Judgment Day.
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

Start here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=176529
Then here: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=185296
And here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=194382
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Re: What will win the god wars?

Postby WendyDarling » Tue Dec 08, 2020 7:47 pm

You will be judging yourself, Biggie, on your Judgement Day with your very own conscience. I covered this in another of Greatest’s recent threads.

God wars. If I am made by a God, with God parts, why can’t I be the winner rather than my Creator?
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Re: What will win the god wars?

Postby Greatest I am » Tue Dec 08, 2020 8:11 pm

Ecmandu wrote:The winner is extremely simple:

When all beings are god, without violating the consent of a single being in existence.

This requires thinking outside the box.

Anything less, is a winner in a win/lose reality, and that is a loser.


If all things are god, like loving all, means that all things are equal and there is no one special.

That is not the usual definition of god, even as I agree that it you cannot see god in all, you will never find god at all.

We are all in this together, alone.

The one who is the most alone would likely make the best god, should we decide to elect a real human god, as scriptures say we should.

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Re: What will win the god wars?

Postby iambiguous » Tue Dec 08, 2020 8:16 pm

WendyDarling wrote:You will be judging yourself, Biggie, on your Judgement Day with your very own conscience. I covered this in another of Greatest’s recent threads.

God wars. If I am made by a God, with God parts, why can’t I be the winner rather than my Creator?


Okay, Kid, and this part?

How about solid and indisputable proof from one of the hundreds and hundreds of religious denominations out there that a God, the God, their God does in fact exist.

This God then comes down here and does things that no rational human being could deny is in fact proof of His existence.

That would constitute the winner in this war for me.

How about you? What would it take for you to declare a winner?

Surely, it can't just be what you believe about God "in your head".


Only your rendition of all this and not his.
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

Start here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=176529
Then here: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=185296
And here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=194382
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Re: What will win the god wars?

Postby Greatest I am » Tue Dec 08, 2020 8:23 pm

iambiguous wrote:
Greatest I am wrote:
If the immorality of the Christianity's ideology does not do it for you, then morals are not your focus, and should be.


But my point is that there are hundreds of other religious paths out there and those on them would suggest in turn that if their ideology does not do it for me...

Then what?


Then, you will have already studied the various ideologies, political as well as religious, and like all esoteric ecumenists, like Gnostic Christians, I suggest you create your own improved ideology by cherry picking from everything you know.

Who is better than you to decide what you should know and believe?

And if morals is your focus you know by now where I go with that: morality here and now begetting immortality there and then.

Only in regard to what actual set of circumstances in which the conflicting spiritual ideologies go after our souls.

Why your ideology and not their own?


I can argue and do apologetics for my morals, while Christians run away from moral discussions and just go hide behind their genocidal satanic god, without being able to justify his many mass murders.

And, as an atheist eyeball to eyeball with the abyss, I'm very much in favor of someone winning the God wars. Then introducing us to the God. Where I am at least given the chance to make my case on Judgment Day.



Given atheism and their churches, as well as laïcité being the wave of the future, the non-religious have finally won the day. The religious just don't accept that yet.

The fact that most Christians never set foot in a church, even once a year, shows that the fantasy based religions have lost the god wars.

Forget judgement day. You have already judged well and have no condemnation to fear.

A genocidal satanic god liker Yahweh makes a piss poor judge anyway.

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Re: What will win the god wars?

Postby Greatest I am » Tue Dec 08, 2020 8:25 pm

WendyDarling wrote:You will be judging yourself, Biggie, on your Judgement Day with your very own conscience. I covered this in another of Greatest’s recent threads.

God wars. If I am made by a God, with God parts, why can’t I be the winner rather than my Creator?


I like.

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Re: What will win the god wars?

Postby WendyDarling » Tue Dec 08, 2020 8:31 pm

All souls are there own worst enemies, Ec, how are you going to perfect them, make them whole? Placing them into a fantasy mirror reality doesn’t change how they see themselves, know themselves, or regard themselves? As far as I know, there is no being rebuilt, without flaws. Wanna start a thread to discuss this?

Biggie, maybe Ec and I will discuss answers and proofs in a new thread.
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Re: What will win the god wars?

Postby Greatest I am » Tue Dec 08, 2020 8:42 pm

WendyDarling wrote:All souls are there own worst enemies, Ec, how are you going to perfect them, make them whole? Placing them into a fantasy mirror reality doesn’t change how they see themselves, know themselves, or regard themselves? As far as I know, there is no being rebuilt, without flaws. Wanna start a thread to discuss this?

Biggie, maybe Ec and I will discuss answers and proofs in a new thread.


The flaw you see, I see as a small evil within a greater good.

The bible did get this correct. We are all born sinners, flawed to you, and perfect to me.

Nature does not disagree as nature always creates for the best possible end.

Even our most deformed, is the best end nature can give such an individual.

That is why it can be truthfully said that we live in the best of all possible worlds, as it is the only possible world, given our history, entropy and the anthropic principle.

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Re: What will win the god wars?

Postby WendyDarling » Tue Dec 08, 2020 9:07 pm

Greatest I am wrote:
WendyDarling wrote:All souls are there own worst enemies, Ec, how are you going to perfect them, make them whole? Placing them into a fantasy mirror reality doesn’t change how they see themselves, know themselves, or regard themselves? As far as I know, there is no being rebuilt, without flaws. Wanna start a thread to discuss this?

Biggie, maybe Ec and I will discuss answers and proofs in a new thread.


The flaw you see, I see as a small evil within a greater good.

The bible did get this correct. We are all born sinners, flawed to you, and perfect to me.

Nature does not disagree as nature always creates for the best possible end.

Even our most deformed, is the best end nature can give such an individual.

That is why it can be truthfully said that we live in the best of all possible worlds, as it is the only possible world, given our history, entropy and the anthropic principle.

Regards
DL


Well, when faced with perfection aka peace, you will come to decide your fate quickly. Either you accept yourself as worthy of peace or you may find yourself back in a human body with the rest of us. :wink:
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Re: What will win the god wars?

Postby iambiguous » Tue Dec 08, 2020 9:19 pm

Greatest I am wrote:
Given atheism and their churches, as well as laïcité being the wave of the future, the non-religious have finally won the day. The religious just don't accept that yet.

The fact that most Christians never set foot in a church, even once a year, shows that the fantasy based religions have lost the god wars.

Forget judgement day. You have already judged well and have no condemnation to fear.

A genocidal satanic god liker Yahweh makes a piss poor judge anyway.

Regards
DL


Look, I know that with morality here and now and immortality there and then on the line, there hasn't been much that mere mortals haven't thought up in order to make the brute facticity of an essentially meaningless existence tumbling over into the abyss go away. I spent years nurturing my own soul to keep all that at bay.

And, okay, sure, maybe there really is a winner in the God wars, and one of them actually does exist. But you don't have to be from Missouri to demand that, in regard to this, that someone actually show you. After all, with so much at stake, what if it's not the God of Greatest I Am?

Doesn't he feel any responsibility at at all to demonstrate more substantively that it is his God?
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

Start here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=176529
Then here: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=185296
And here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=194382
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Re: What will win the god wars?

Postby Greatest I am » Tue Dec 08, 2020 10:21 pm

WendyDarling wrote:
Greatest I am wrote:
WendyDarling wrote:All souls are there own worst enemies, Ec, how are you going to perfect them, make them whole? Placing them into a fantasy mirror reality doesn’t change how they see themselves, know themselves, or regard themselves? As far as I know, there is no being rebuilt, without flaws. Wanna start a thread to discuss this?

Biggie, maybe Ec and I will discuss answers and proofs in a new thread.


The flaw you see, I see as a small evil within a greater good.

The bible did get this correct. We are all born sinners, flawed to you, and perfect to me.

Nature does not disagree as nature always creates for the best possible end.

Even our most deformed, is the best end nature can give such an individual.

That is why it can be truthfully said that we live in the best of all possible worlds, as it is the only possible world, given our history, entropy and the anthropic principle.

Regards
DL


Well, when faced with perfection aka peace, you will come to decide your fate quickly. Either you accept yourself as worthy of peace or you may find yourself back in a human body with the rest of us. :wink:


The Chinese have a curse that says, may you live in interesting times.

Peace is not as interesting as war.

If you do not have a cause to fight for, you would not be a moral person as there is a lot of immorality around to fight.

My particular cause s are homophobia and misogyny and the notion that a genocidal god can be a good god.

What cause, if any, gets you going?

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Re: What will win the god wars?

Postby Mad Man P » Tue Dec 08, 2020 10:21 pm

WendyDarling wrote:Well, when faced with perfection aka peace


Fuck peace... I want to fight!
Not to hurt anyone or beat anyone... but to better myself and to be alive, I don't want the fight to end... peace is death and I will never know it.
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Re: What will win the god wars?

Postby Greatest I am » Tue Dec 08, 2020 10:27 pm

iambiguous wrote:
Greatest I am wrote:
Given atheism and their churches, as well as laïcité being the wave of the future, the non-religious have finally won the day. The religious just don't accept that yet.

The fact that most Christians never set foot in a church, even once a year, shows that the fantasy based religions have lost the god wars.

Forget judgement day. You have already judged well and have no condemnation to fear.

A genocidal satanic god liker Yahweh makes a piss poor judge anyway.

Regards
DL


Look, I know that with morality here and now and immortality there and then on the line, there hasn't been much that mere mortals haven't thought up in order to make the brute facticity of an essentially meaningless existence tumbling over into the abyss go away. I spent years nurturing my own soul to keep all that at bay.

And, okay, sure, maybe there really is a winner in the God wars, and one of them actually does exist. But you don't have to be from Missouri to demand that, in regard to this, that someone actually show you. After all, with so much at stake, what if it's not the God of Greatest I Am?

Doesn't he feel any responsibility at at all to demonstrate more substantively that it is his God?


Should god have the best morals?

I think so.

Yahweh, being genocidal and all, killing when he could just as easily cure, definitely does not have the best moral sense.

If you do not use moral sense to judge god, what is your main criteria?

Not the ability to kill, the way Christians chose their god, I hope.

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Re: What will win the god wars?

Postby WendyDarling » Tue Dec 08, 2020 10:31 pm

Mad Man P wrote:
WendyDarling wrote:Well, when faced with perfection aka peace


Fuck peace... I want to fight!
Not to hurt anyone or beat anyone... but to better myself and be alive, I don't want the fight to end... peace is death and I will never know it.

You’ll know it, feel it, but back into a body is your choice, absolutely. I didn’t accept it either, not ready to accept worthiness. It could be some kind of end, but also another kind of beginning. Does fear of the unknown usually stop you?
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Re: What will win the god wars?

Postby Greatest I am » Tue Dec 08, 2020 10:33 pm

iambiguous wrote:[ essentially meaningless existence tumbling over into the abyss go away. I spent years nurturing my own soul to keep all that at bay.


We likely do not define soul the same way as I use the Gnostic Christian definition. This aside.

I do not see most as having meaningless existence. I think if many did, the suicide rate would be a lot higher than it is.

Most have a meaning to their lives or they would end them.

This I imagine applies to you as well.

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Re: What will win the god wars?

Postby Greatest I am » Tue Dec 08, 2020 10:38 pm

Mad Man P wrote:
WendyDarling wrote:Well, when faced with perfection aka peace


Fuck peace... I want to fight!
Not to hurt anyone or beat anyone... but to better myself and to be alive, I don't want the fight to end... peace is death and I will never know it.


I think I like the thought, if not the expression of it.

I fight/debate and argue a lot. I to like it.

I do it to lose, not to win, even as I fight to win.

Do you better your mind by winning or losing an argument?

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Re: What will win the god wars?

Postby Pedro I Rengel » Tue Dec 08, 2020 10:41 pm

You don't even believe in God you said a literal beliefs in Gods is only for the gullible.

Could you possibly be trying to manipulate people?
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Re: What will win the god wars?

Postby Pedro I Rengel » Tue Dec 08, 2020 10:41 pm

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Re: What will win the god wars?

Postby Greatest I am » Tue Dec 08, 2020 10:46 pm

Pedro I Rengel wrote:You don't even believe in God you said a literal beliefs in Gods is only for the gullible.

Could you possibly be trying to manipulate people?


Absolutely, to reverse the lies they have swallowed from their lying clergy.

Are you not doing the same for your side? If so, why the question?

Do you not think that saving people from the damage to their minds that supernatural and fantasy thinking does?

If you child believed in a god other than your own, would you not think his mind worth saving?

Sure you would.

I think the minds of the gullible should be saved from believing their demonstrably lying clergy.

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