My Religion

For intuitive and critical discussions, from spirituality to theological doctrines. Fair warning: because the subject matter is personal, moderation is strict.

Moderator: Dan~

Re: My Religion

Postby Pedro I Rengel » Fri Dec 18, 2020 6:17 am

MagsJ wrote:
Fixed Cross wrote:
Indeed, Freemasons were modeled after Catholicism. And their resume includes, among other things, ridding the planet of slavery.

They originated from the more technical aspects of Catholicism, centered around the architecture of the Cathedral. Masons are literally builders, engineers, of the human species into something beyond its misery.

I'm reminded of that plastic statue made by one "mason" across from the trading school.

I’ve heard that they’re of diminished importance now, but are still active.. I know of some who are FMs, and they are what they are.

London is far too diverse, for those from different religions and standings, not to mix.. not sure what Outsiders imagine Britain to be like? I guess all you read about is the religious hate going on, but that was due to extremism and enforced-immigration, and not really that rife otherwise.. even the other large cities and towns are similar to that, and even smaller ones and villages too.


Whatever conflicts Britain may or may not have had, Catholicism remains what it is.

To be true, though, if there is one nation that has almost made a schism within the Catholic church it would have to be Irish monks. Irrevocably Catholic, undeniably unique.

They all still do communion though, and all heed the dictates of the Pope.

'Tis what it is Mags.

That is to say, I don't need to know much, or anything about England, though I do know some, to know that whatever Catholic churches operate within it are Roman Catholic and answer to the pope.
User avatar
Pedro I Rengel
ᛈᛖᛉᛖᛉ
 
Posts: 8792
Joined: Mon Feb 05, 2018 2:55 pm

Re: My Religion

Postby Pedro I Rengel » Fri Dec 18, 2020 6:19 am

My evidence is find me one that doesn't.
User avatar
Pedro I Rengel
ᛈᛖᛉᛖᛉ
 
Posts: 8792
Joined: Mon Feb 05, 2018 2:55 pm

Re: My Religion

Postby MagsJ » Fri Dec 18, 2020 6:37 am

Fixed Cross wrote:Another subject entirely for a second, Prussian religiosity was by necessity, like with Sparta, purely military, given its lack of resources other than men. From this religiosity comes a kind of Jesuitism of military intelligence, namely the anticipatory war through diplomacy based on more imminent facts on the ground as had been the case with leisurely warring monarchs of richer nations, as well as an aggressive application of science to achieve technical superiority - they werent men serving an ideal, but they were religious. It is a strange kind of pathos, the Prussians. Almost like a chosen people. Chosen by fate, by the combination of strong men and barren land without natural borders.

For me this Christian world remains foreign, I had my first sense of religion when the name of Zeus was being screeched onto the blackboard. I can still see the grains of chalk swishing coming off the algae-dark green field into the hard morning sun, the fact of light in matter was understood in the violent nonchalance of the teacher who was manic depressive and schizoid, but considered adequate for the job of teacher of ancient Greek, by a generous gods ways.

He taught me! Arnold van Akkeren. A holy man.

It does seem that Nations can’t grow beyond a certain population size or power, before they either divide themselves up through differences, or are conquered by another, ergo.. the new Europe and other ancient continents.

Ancient Greek was to us, history, not religion.. I guess because we had our own religion to live out and be a productive part of. Why were history (and geography) teachers always odd-balls and/or pervs? but such fantastic subjects to learn about.
The possibility of anything we can imagine existing is endless and infinite.. - MagsJ
I haven't got the time to spend the time reading something that is telling me nothing, as I will never be able to get back that time, and I may need it for something at some point in time.. Huh! - MagsJ
You’re suggestions and I, just simply don’t mix.. like oil on water, or a really bad DJ - MagsJ
User avatar
MagsJ
The Londonist: a chic geek
 
Posts: 21498
Joined: Wed Nov 01, 2006 2:59 pm
Location: Suryaloka / LDN Town

Re: My Religion

Postby MagsJ » Fri Dec 18, 2020 7:06 am

Pedro I Rengel wrote:My evidence is find me one that doesn't.

It’s called Independent Catholicism.. a denominational movement of clergy and laity who self-identify as Catholic, and form micro-churches, claiming apostolic succession and sacraments, depite not being affiliated to any Catholic Church or to Rome.

They are global and many.. I don’t know any independent churches personally, but online said that there are 1000s that are, and I know a guy who started a chain of Independent churches.. mainly in the SE of England.
The possibility of anything we can imagine existing is endless and infinite.. - MagsJ
I haven't got the time to spend the time reading something that is telling me nothing, as I will never be able to get back that time, and I may need it for something at some point in time.. Huh! - MagsJ
You’re suggestions and I, just simply don’t mix.. like oil on water, or a really bad DJ - MagsJ
User avatar
MagsJ
The Londonist: a chic geek
 
Posts: 21498
Joined: Wed Nov 01, 2006 2:59 pm
Location: Suryaloka / LDN Town

Re: My Religion

Postby MagsJ » Fri Dec 18, 2020 7:10 am

Pedro I Rengel wrote:Whatever conflicts Britain may or may not have had, Catholicism remains what it is.

To be true, though, if there is one nation that has almost made a schism within the Catholic church it would have to be Irish monks. Irrevocably Catholic, undeniably unique.

They all still do communion though, and all heed the dictates of the Pope.

'Tis what it is Mags.

That is to say, I don't need to know much, or anything about England, though I do know some, to know that whatever Catholic churches operate within it are Roman Catholic and answer to the pope.

Nope.. not all Catholic churches are RC, they’re Catholic Independents, and don’t follow RC Mass but hold their own basic version of Catholic Mass, and do not answer to the pope.

Your ignorance of facts, ain’t bliss.
Last edited by MagsJ on Fri Dec 18, 2020 7:26 am, edited 1 time in total.
The possibility of anything we can imagine existing is endless and infinite.. - MagsJ
I haven't got the time to spend the time reading something that is telling me nothing, as I will never be able to get back that time, and I may need it for something at some point in time.. Huh! - MagsJ
You’re suggestions and I, just simply don’t mix.. like oil on water, or a really bad DJ - MagsJ
User avatar
MagsJ
The Londonist: a chic geek
 
Posts: 21498
Joined: Wed Nov 01, 2006 2:59 pm
Location: Suryaloka / LDN Town

Re: My Religion

Postby Pedro I Rengel » Fri Dec 18, 2020 7:16 am

I hope you realize that by separating from the Vatican, they are by definition protestant. That is what protestant means.

Lutherans and Calvinists also called themselves Catholics.

Wikipedia:

The Catholic Church, sometimes referred to as the Roman Catholic Church, is the largest Christian church, with approximately 1.3 billion baptised Catholics worldwide as of 2018.[4]


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_Church
User avatar
Pedro I Rengel
ᛈᛖᛉᛖᛉ
 
Posts: 8792
Joined: Mon Feb 05, 2018 2:55 pm

Re: My Religion

Postby Pedro I Rengel » Fri Dec 18, 2020 7:26 am

It's like if I self identify as Muslim, but I don't believe in Mecca or Mohamed or Allah.

Words mean things.
User avatar
Pedro I Rengel
ᛈᛖᛉᛖᛉ
 
Posts: 8792
Joined: Mon Feb 05, 2018 2:55 pm

Re: My Religion

Postby MagsJ » Fri Dec 18, 2020 7:28 am

_
You need to read more, or read-up on this subject more..

I will leave you to your thread and your ignorance
The possibility of anything we can imagine existing is endless and infinite.. - MagsJ
I haven't got the time to spend the time reading something that is telling me nothing, as I will never be able to get back that time, and I may need it for something at some point in time.. Huh! - MagsJ
You’re suggestions and I, just simply don’t mix.. like oil on water, or a really bad DJ - MagsJ
User avatar
MagsJ
The Londonist: a chic geek
 
Posts: 21498
Joined: Wed Nov 01, 2006 2:59 pm
Location: Suryaloka / LDN Town

Re: My Religion

Postby Pedro I Rengel » Fri Dec 18, 2020 7:45 am

Maybe it is like a British thing, you all make up whatever and you have these supposed Catholic churches that aren't actually Catholic.

Hey it's a free world.
User avatar
Pedro I Rengel
ᛈᛖᛉᛖᛉ
 
Posts: 8792
Joined: Mon Feb 05, 2018 2:55 pm

Re: My Religion

Postby Pedro I Rengel » Fri Dec 18, 2020 8:02 am

Maybe Jakob is right, it's a stupid Aristotelian word anyway.

But it means something. Historically, it has meaning.

You call me ignorant, but you cannot know too much history to say some of the things you have said, like that Catholics aren't Christian (supposedly you were educated in a Catholic school but they never mentioned Jesus?), or that Catholic refers to anything but the religion which has its HQ in the Vatican. Wars were had about this.
User avatar
Pedro I Rengel
ᛈᛖᛉᛖᛉ
 
Posts: 8792
Joined: Mon Feb 05, 2018 2:55 pm

Re: My Religion

Postby Pedro I Rengel » Fri Dec 18, 2020 8:04 am

I guess your definition of Catholic is "anybody who calls themselves Catholic."

Until communism got big, that's not how language worked.
User avatar
Pedro I Rengel
ᛈᛖᛉᛖᛉ
 
Posts: 8792
Joined: Mon Feb 05, 2018 2:55 pm

Re: My Religion

Postby Pedro I Rengel » Fri Dec 18, 2020 8:05 am

Like I bet if you walked around an Irish Catholic neighbourhood and said you were Catholic and mentioned one of these "independent Catholic" operations, you would get your ass kicked.
User avatar
Pedro I Rengel
ᛈᛖᛉᛖᛉ
 
Posts: 8792
Joined: Mon Feb 05, 2018 2:55 pm

Re: My Religion

Postby Pedro I Rengel » Fri Dec 18, 2020 8:11 am

Like "far right."

Until like 5 years ago, far right simply meant Nazi.

Now it's anybody that doesn't stick to mainline democrat party dogma.
User avatar
Pedro I Rengel
ᛈᛖᛉᛖᛉ
 
Posts: 8792
Joined: Mon Feb 05, 2018 2:55 pm

Re: My Religion

Postby Pedro I Rengel » Fri Dec 18, 2020 8:14 am

Anyway, I will leave it at that you didn't answer any of the points here:

Pedro I Rengel wrote:I hope you realize that by separating from the Vatican, they are by definition protestant. That is what protestant means.

Lutherans and Calvinists also called themselves Catholics.

Wikipedia:

The Catholic Church, sometimes referred to as the Roman Catholic Church, is the largest Christian church, with approximately 1.3 billion baptised Catholics worldwide as of 2018.[4]


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_Church


Showing actual ignorance, and not just accused ignorance, on the matter of Catholicism.

And I straight up don't believe you that you went to a Catholic school. Because I know Catholics, they would have mentioned Jesus at least once, and probably a bunch of times.
User avatar
Pedro I Rengel
ᛈᛖᛉᛖᛉ
 
Posts: 8792
Joined: Mon Feb 05, 2018 2:55 pm

Re: My Religion

Postby MagsJ » Fri Dec 18, 2020 8:20 am

_
Lololol.. you really don’t know much about the UK, do you.

An RC Irish guy, RC Caribbean-Brit chick, Muslim Indian lady, a CoE Viscount, a Muslim Indian-Brit Guy, two young Brit males, and a few other assorted ethno/religio people, all meet in a pub.

What are they?
The possibility of anything we can imagine existing is endless and infinite.. - MagsJ
I haven't got the time to spend the time reading something that is telling me nothing, as I will never be able to get back that time, and I may need it for something at some point in time.. Huh! - MagsJ
You’re suggestions and I, just simply don’t mix.. like oil on water, or a really bad DJ - MagsJ
User avatar
MagsJ
The Londonist: a chic geek
 
Posts: 21498
Joined: Wed Nov 01, 2006 2:59 pm
Location: Suryaloka / LDN Town

Re: My Religion

Postby Pedro I Rengel » Fri Dec 18, 2020 9:06 am

Lol I don't know Cockney scum?

I'm joking obviously.

From the reference to the RC Caribbean-Brit chick, I assume they are your friends / work team.

But hopefully chess club.
User avatar
Pedro I Rengel
ᛈᛖᛉᛖᛉ
 
Posts: 8792
Joined: Mon Feb 05, 2018 2:55 pm

Re: My Religion

Postby Pedro I Rengel » Fri Dec 18, 2020 9:15 am

This answer also occurred to me which I am sure is wrong but would be very funny:

An IRA meeting.
User avatar
Pedro I Rengel
ᛈᛖᛉᛖᛉ
 
Posts: 8792
Joined: Mon Feb 05, 2018 2:55 pm

Re: My Religion

Postby Pedro I Rengel » Fri Dec 18, 2020 9:24 am

More possibilities:

The local KKK

An Independent Catholic mass

The owners of the pub

The Queen's personal guard

A ballsy AA meeting

The Comittee To Simplify Ethno/Religious Denominations

A single person that identifies as an RC Irish guy, RC Caribbean-Brit chick, Muslim Indian lady, a CoE Viscount, a Muslim Indian-Brit Guy, two young Brit males, and a few other assorted ethno/religio people

A goldfish having a bad trip

A Scandinavian black metal band

Just a group of lost souls drowning their sorrows in stuffy English beer hoping for a chance moment of fleeting human contact to break the monotony of their dreary meaningless routines

The Bank of England

A BBC documentary on the health benefits of asparagus

Constantinople

Brunch

A dentist cleverly telling a bunch of people that his waiting room is being renovated and to wait there instead
Last edited by Pedro I Rengel on Fri Dec 18, 2020 9:33 am, edited 2 times in total.
User avatar
Pedro I Rengel
ᛈᛖᛉᛖᛉ
 
Posts: 8792
Joined: Mon Feb 05, 2018 2:55 pm

Re: My Religion

Postby MagsJ » Fri Dec 18, 2020 9:31 am

Pedro I Rengel wrote:Maybe it is like a British thing, you all make up whatever and you have these supposed Catholic churches that aren't actually Catholic.

It’s probably the descendants, from the Norman Conquest of England (whom were French-Norman and RC), so maybe they think it their birthright to be Catholic, so became independently so.

You call me ignorant, but you cannot know too much history to say some of the things you have said, like that Catholics aren't Christian (supposedly you were educated in a Catholic school but they never mentioned Jesus?), or that Catholic refers to anything but the religion which has its HQ in the Vatican. Wars were had about this.

Sure, RC is Christian.. we just don’t harp on about it, and the three main characters in the starring roles that RC revolves around are Jesus, Mary, and Joseph.. as well as the 12 Disciplines, 3 Kings, et al. The Nativity Plays put on, also have a starring role, to play.

Like I bet if you walked around an Irish Catholic neighbourhood and said you were Catholic and mentioned one of these "independent Catholic" operations, you would get your ass kicked.

Lol.. Caribbean-Brits and the Irish have always gotten on.. from school days, dating, marriage etc. Doubt they’d bat an eyelid if I mentioned that lol.
The possibility of anything we can imagine existing is endless and infinite.. - MagsJ
I haven't got the time to spend the time reading something that is telling me nothing, as I will never be able to get back that time, and I may need it for something at some point in time.. Huh! - MagsJ
You’re suggestions and I, just simply don’t mix.. like oil on water, or a really bad DJ - MagsJ
User avatar
MagsJ
The Londonist: a chic geek
 
Posts: 21498
Joined: Wed Nov 01, 2006 2:59 pm
Location: Suryaloka / LDN Town

Re: My Religion

Postby Pedro I Rengel » Fri Dec 18, 2020 9:36 am

MagsJ wrote:It’s probably the descendants, from the Norman Conquest of England (whom were French-Norman and RC), so maybe they think it their birthright to be Catholic, so became independently so.


It's not that. I read up on it, it's people that used to be Catholic but want to be able to be a priest and gay or a priest and a woman or a priest and transsexual. This didn't exist before the 60's I guarantee it.

MagsJ wrote:Sure, RC is Christian.. we just don’t harp on about it, and the three main characters in the starring roles that RC revolves around are Jesus, Mary, and Joseph.. as well as the 12 Disciplines, 3 Kings, et al. The Nativity Plays put on, also have a starring role, to play.


OK fine but what you were saying before was that Catholics are not Christians and that they are two distinct groups.

MagsJ wrote:
Like I bet if you walked around an Irish Catholic neighbourhood and said you were Catholic and mentioned one of these "independent Catholic" operations, you would get your ass kicked.

Lol.. Caribbean-Brits and the Irish have always gotten on.. from school days, dating, marriage etc. Doubt they’d bat an eyelid if I mentioned that lol.



I think what they would take offense at is not your ancestry but your made-up-ass church that is an offense to their actual church.
User avatar
Pedro I Rengel
ᛈᛖᛉᛖᛉ
 
Posts: 8792
Joined: Mon Feb 05, 2018 2:55 pm

Re: My Religion

Postby Pedro I Rengel » Fri Dec 18, 2020 9:42 am

Lol even the wikipedia article is like "most of these 'churches' are scams."
User avatar
Pedro I Rengel
ᛈᛖᛉᛖᛉ
 
Posts: 8792
Joined: Mon Feb 05, 2018 2:55 pm

Re: My Religion

Postby MagsJ » Fri Dec 18, 2020 9:52 am

MagsJ wrote:
Pedro I Rengel wrote:I hope you realize that by separating from the Vatican, they are by definition protestant. That is what protestant means.

Lutherans and Calvinists also called themselves Catholics.

Wikipedia:

The Catholic Church, sometimes referred to as the Roman Catholic Church, is the largest Christian church, with approximately 1.3 billion baptised Catholics worldwide as of 2018.[4]


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_Church

They are Christian not Catholic, but were Catholics.. until they went their separate ways, and parted with the Vatican due to differences.. I know a Lutheran or two. ; )

Pedro I Rengel wrote:Showing actual ignorance, and not just accused ignorance, on the matter of Catholicism.

And I straight up don't believe you that you went to a Catholic school. Because I know Catholics, they would have mentioned Jesus at least once, and probably a bunch of times.

What reason would I have to say I have? Why would I make that up?

Do you not think I have better things to do?
Last edited by MagsJ on Fri Dec 18, 2020 10:47 am, edited 1 time in total.
The possibility of anything we can imagine existing is endless and infinite.. - MagsJ
I haven't got the time to spend the time reading something that is telling me nothing, as I will never be able to get back that time, and I may need it for something at some point in time.. Huh! - MagsJ
You’re suggestions and I, just simply don’t mix.. like oil on water, or a really bad DJ - MagsJ
User avatar
MagsJ
The Londonist: a chic geek
 
Posts: 21498
Joined: Wed Nov 01, 2006 2:59 pm
Location: Suryaloka / LDN Town

Re: My Religion

Postby MagsJ » Fri Dec 18, 2020 10:29 am

Pedro I Rengel wrote:
MagsJ wrote:It’s probably the descendants, from the Norman Conquest of England (whom were French-Norman and RC), so maybe they think it their birthright to be Catholic, so became independently so.
It's not that. I read up on it, it's people that used to be Catholic but want to be able to be a priest and gay or a priest and a woman or a priest and transsexual. This didn't exist before the 60's I guarantee it.

List of independent Catholic denominations: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_i ... ominations

This is a list of independent Catholic denominations which identify themselves as being within Old Catholicism or other independent Catholic traditions originating in Europe having split from the Catholic Church in the 1870s, which was originally ultrajectine in doctrine.

MagsJ wrote:Sure, RC is Christian.. we just don’t harp on about it, and the three main characters in the starring roles that RC revolves around are Jesus, Mary, and Joseph.. as well as the 12 Disciplines, 3 Kings, et al. The Nativity Plays put on, also have a starring role, to play.
OK fine but what you were saying before was that Catholics are not Christians and that they are two distinct groups.

I said that not all Catholics are Roman Catholics, and they aren’t.

MagsJ wrote:
Like I bet if you walked around an Irish Catholic neighbourhood and said you were Catholic and mentioned one of these "independent Catholic" operations, you would get your ass kicked.

Lol.. Caribbean-Brits and the Irish have always gotten on.. from school days, dating, marriage etc. Doubt they’d bat an eyelid if I mentioned that lol.
I think what they would take offense at is not your ancestry but your made-up-ass church that is an offense to their actual church.

All the local Irish families sent their children to that church and adjoining school.

What does it mean to be Irish Catholic?
Irish Catholics are those who are both Roman Catholic and Irish. This is not a separate creed or sect in the sense that "Anglo-Catholic", "Old Catholic", "Eastern Orthodox Catholic" might be. There is no Autonomous Particular Church/Rite, such as Greek Catholic or Chaldean Catholic.
The possibility of anything we can imagine existing is endless and infinite.. - MagsJ
I haven't got the time to spend the time reading something that is telling me nothing, as I will never be able to get back that time, and I may need it for something at some point in time.. Huh! - MagsJ
You’re suggestions and I, just simply don’t mix.. like oil on water, or a really bad DJ - MagsJ
User avatar
MagsJ
The Londonist: a chic geek
 
Posts: 21498
Joined: Wed Nov 01, 2006 2:59 pm
Location: Suryaloka / LDN Town

Re: My Religion

Postby MagsJ » Fri Dec 18, 2020 10:40 am

Pedro I Rengel wrote:Lol I don't know Cockney scum?

I'm joking obviously.

From the reference to the RC Caribbean-Brit chick, I assume they are your friends / work team.

But hopefully chess club.

Lololol

..the RC Caribbean-Brit chick is obviously me, the rest are all local Conservatives who are like one big happy family, and yet as diverse a mix as you can get.

Not everyone is brought up to discriminate or see prejudice in everything, and us types obviously congregate together, to immerse ourselves in our combined untainted existence.
The possibility of anything we can imagine existing is endless and infinite.. - MagsJ
I haven't got the time to spend the time reading something that is telling me nothing, as I will never be able to get back that time, and I may need it for something at some point in time.. Huh! - MagsJ
You’re suggestions and I, just simply don’t mix.. like oil on water, or a really bad DJ - MagsJ
User avatar
MagsJ
The Londonist: a chic geek
 
Posts: 21498
Joined: Wed Nov 01, 2006 2:59 pm
Location: Suryaloka / LDN Town

Re: My Religion

Postby Pedro I Rengel » Fri Dec 18, 2020 12:05 pm

MagsJ wrote:Not everyone is brought up to discriminate or see prejudice in everything


Well you obviously have, because you keep bringing it up. But that's your problem, not mine.

MagsJ wrote:List of independent Catholic denominations: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_i ... ominations

This is a list of independent Catholic denominations which identify themselves as being within Old Catholicism or other independent Catholic traditions originating in Europe having split from the Catholic Church in the 1870s, which was originally ultrajectine in doctrine.


This is not honest. Some weird fucking Germans? That's not even Catholic, that's like neo-Lutheran.

You just said, by the way, that since Luther and Calvin split from the Vatican, they no longer were Catholic. So these "alternate Catholic denominations" you quote...? Both Luther and Calvin maintained the Catholic label until well after they had been excommunicated.

MagsJ wrote:All the local Irish families sent their children to that church and adjoining school.



Which church, I'm actually curious now.

MagsJ wrote:What does it mean to be Irish Catholic?


Yeah, like I have been saying, it only means a Catholic, aka Roman Catholic, from Ireland. There is however an extremely rich tradition in Irish Catholicism, dating back to the days when Catholicism wasn't even as big as it became. Very far back. But yes, still incontrovertibly, Pope subservient, Vatican affiliated, Roman Catholics.

MagsJ wrote:I said that not all Catholics are Roman Catholics, and they aren’t.


I can go back and get the quote if you want. You clearly and explicitly said that Catholics were not Christians.
User avatar
Pedro I Rengel
ᛈᛖᛉᛖᛉ
 
Posts: 8792
Joined: Mon Feb 05, 2018 2:55 pm

PreviousNext

Return to Religion and Spirituality



Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bob