The great invisible one

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The great invisible one

Postby Artimas » Thu Oct 29, 2020 7:22 pm

What do you know of or about Abraxas, the demi-urge, the serpents as the waves, the mind entangled in the body by a rubber band, of Sophia? What can be said here on this? Does anyone have any light or knowledge in regards to this concept?

Gnosis and Gnosticism.

Even nothing, is something.
If one is to live balanced with expectations, then one must learn to appreciate the negative as well, to respect darkness in its own home.

All smoke fades, as do all delicate mirrors shatter.

"My ancestors are smiling on me, Imperials. Can you say the same?"

"Science Fiction today ~ Science Fact tomorrow"

Change is inevitable, it can only be delayed or sped up. Choose wisely.

Truth is pain, and pain is gain.


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Re: The great invisible one

Postby MagsJ » Thu Oct 29, 2020 7:32 pm

_
Sorry, no.

Hi Art.. hope things are going good still?
The possibility of anything we can imagine existing is endless and infinite.. - MagsJ
I haven't got the time to spend the time reading something that is telling me nothing, as I will never be able to get back that time, and I may need it for something at some point in time.. Huh! - MagsJ
You’re suggestions and I, just simply don’t mix.. like oil on water, or a really bad DJ - MagsJ
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Re: The great invisible one

Postby Artimas » Thu Oct 29, 2020 8:45 pm

MagsJ wrote:_
Sorry, no.

Hi Art.. hope things are going good still?


I am doing ok for now, still work at the cannabis grow in Portland, Oregon but idk for how much longer tbh. What about you, how have you been?

I am just trying to understand more about Abraxas, Gnosticism and what not, I feel I have a great understanding already and displayed my encounter with it in the dimethyltryptamine and psychedelics thread I made a few years ago but there is always more to learn and I like to know others view as well.

Also, how do you all upload pics on here, I tried using Imgur but it’s not good anymore apparently as my picture didn’t show up in the official post a pic thread, thought I’d update my pic.

Even nothing, is something.
If one is to live balanced with expectations, then one must learn to appreciate the negative as well, to respect darkness in its own home.

All smoke fades, as do all delicate mirrors shatter.

"My ancestors are smiling on me, Imperials. Can you say the same?"

"Science Fiction today ~ Science Fact tomorrow"

Change is inevitable, it can only be delayed or sped up. Choose wisely.

Truth is pain, and pain is gain.


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Re: The great invisible one

Postby felix dakat » Thu Oct 29, 2020 8:52 pm

From the seven sermons to the dead by Carl Jung:

God and devil are distinguished by the qualities fullness and emptiness, generation and destruction. Effectiveness is common to both. Effectiveness joineth them. Effectiveness, therefore, standeth above both; is a god above god, since in its effect it uniteth fullness and emptiness.

This is a god whom ye knew not, for mankind forgot it. We name it by its name Abraxas. It is more indefinite still than god and devil.

That god may be distinguished from it, we name god Helios or Sun. Abraxas is effect. Nothing standeth opposed to it but the ineffective; hence its effective nature freely unfoldeth itself. The ineffective is not, therefore resisteth not. Abraxas standeth above the sun and above the devil. It is improbable probability, unreal reality. Had the pleroma a being, Abraxas would be its manifestation. It is the effective itself, not any particular effect, but effect in general.

It is unreal reality, because it hath no definite effect.

It is also creatura, because it is distinct from the pleroma.

The sun hath a definite effect, and so hath the devil. Wherefore do they appear to us more effective than indefinite Abraxas.

It is force, duration, change.
The purpose of my life would seem to be to express the truth as I discover it, but in such a manner that it is completely devoid of authority. By having no authority, by being seen by all as utterly unreliable, I express the truth and put everyone in a contradictory position where they can only save themselves by making the truth their own.
Soren Kierkegaard– Journals, 432
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Re: The great invisible one

Postby Artimas » Thu Oct 29, 2020 9:07 pm

felix dakat wrote:From the seven sermons to the dead by Carl Jung:

God and devil are distinguished by the qualities fullness and emptiness, generation and destruction. Effectiveness is common to both. Effectiveness joineth them. Effectiveness, therefore, standeth above both; is a god above god, since in its effect it uniteth fullness and emptiness.

This is a god whom ye knew not, for mankind forgot it. We name it by its name Abraxas. It is more indefinite still than god and devil.

That god may be distinguished from it, we name god Helios or Sun. Abraxas is effect. Nothing standeth opposed to it but the ineffective; hence its effective nature freely unfoldeth itself. The ineffective is not, therefore resisteth not. Abraxas standeth above the sun and above the devil. It is improbable probability, unreal reality. Had the pleroma a being, Abraxas would be its manifestation. It is the effective itself, not any particular effect, but effect in general.

It is unreal reality, because it hath no definite effect.

It is also creatura, because it is distinct from the pleroma.

The sun hath a definite effect, and so hath the devil. Wherefore do they appear to us more effective than indefinite Abraxas.

It is force, duration, change.


This is also my understanding of it and I have tried describing it here before. The “many faced god” but also faceless, the infinite but absolute only if it wishes to appear so. It is incomprehensible but a force, it is everything merged with nothing but even above that as well. I read that Carl Jung wrote on Abraxas as well and he was gnostic, this isn’t surprising to me considering I am on that same path and respect Jung’s work greatly.
I feel I have had an encounter with Abraxas before, nothing special but it only gave me advice to heed once before when I sought knowledge, it showed me just how incomprehensible it is, that my mind whilst living would break in attempt at it.. I have been reading all day today about Abraxas, Sophia and the demiurge and gnosis. When I heard the whisper from the infinite, it has no face but simultaneously was everything. It’s so difficult to articulate into language since language is a barrier but also magick.

Something I found just a few minutes ago and there is always more.
I was curious if you have encountered it as well, as a whisper? Or perhaps it even took form as something finite temporarily?

The following excerpt from Eugnostos the Blessed is typical:

“The One Who Is is ineffable. From the foundation of the world, no power, no creature, no nature has known the One Who Is. Only the One Who Is knows itself.

The One Who Is is immortal, eternal, without birth,
For whoever is born will die;
Unconceived, without a beginning,
For whoever has a beginning has an end;
Undominated, without a name,
For whoever has a name has been fashioned by another;
Unnamable, with no human form,
For whoever has a human form has been fashioned by another.
The One Who Is has its own appearance,
Not like what we have received and seen,
But an alien appearance that surpasses everything
And is superior to everything in the universe.
It looks everywhere and beholds itself in itself.

The One is infinite,
Incomprehensible,
And constantly imperishable.
The One is unequalled,
Immutably good,
Without fault,
Everlasting,
Blessed,
Unknowable,
Yet it knows itself.
The One is immeasurable,
Untraceable,
Perfect,
Without defect.
The One is blessed,
Imperishably,
And is called the Father of All”

Even nothing, is something.
If one is to live balanced with expectations, then one must learn to appreciate the negative as well, to respect darkness in its own home.

All smoke fades, as do all delicate mirrors shatter.

"My ancestors are smiling on me, Imperials. Can you say the same?"

"Science Fiction today ~ Science Fact tomorrow"

Change is inevitable, it can only be delayed or sped up. Choose wisely.

Truth is pain, and pain is gain.


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Re: The great invisible one

Postby felix dakat » Sat Oct 31, 2020 7:32 pm

Artimas wrote:
felix dakat wrote:From the seven sermons to the dead by Carl Jung:

God and devil are distinguished by the qualities fullness and emptiness, generation and destruction. Effectiveness is common to both. Effectiveness joineth them. Effectiveness, therefore, standeth above both; is a god above god, since in its effect it uniteth fullness and emptiness.

This is a god whom ye knew not, for mankind forgot it. We name it by its name Abraxas. It is more indefinite still than god and devil.

That god may be distinguished from it, we name god Helios or Sun. Abraxas is effect. Nothing standeth opposed to it but the ineffective; hence its effective nature freely unfoldeth itself. The ineffective is not, therefore resisteth not. Abraxas standeth above the sun and above the devil. It is improbable probability, unreal reality. Had the pleroma a being, Abraxas would be its manifestation. It is the effective itself, not any particular effect, but effect in general.

It is unreal reality, because it hath no definite effect.

It is also creatura, because it is distinct from the pleroma.

The sun hath a definite effect, and so hath the devil. Wherefore do they appear to us more effective than indefinite Abraxas.

It is force, duration, change.


This is also my understanding of it and I have tried describing it here before. The “many faced god” but also faceless, the infinite but absolute only if it wishes to appear so. It is incomprehensible but a force, it is everything merged with nothing but even above that as well. I read that Carl Jung wrote on Abraxas as well and he was gnostic, this isn’t surprising to me considering I am on that same path and respect Jung’s work greatly.
I feel I have had an encounter with Abraxas before, nothing special but it only gave me advice to heed once before when I sought knowledge, it showed me just how incomprehensible it is, that my mind whilst living would break in attempt at it.. I have been reading all day today about Abraxas, Sophia and the demiurge and gnosis. When I heard the whisper from the infinite, it has no face but simultaneously was everything. It’s so difficult to articulate into language since language is a barrier but also magick.

Something I found just a few minutes ago and there is always more.
I was curious if you have encountered it as well, as a whisper? Or perhaps it even took form as something finite temporarily?

The following excerpt from Eugnostos the Blessed is typical:

“The One Who Is is ineffable. From the foundation of the world, no power, no creature, no nature has known the One Who Is. Only the One Who Is knows itself.

The One Who Is is immortal, eternal, without birth,
For whoever is born will die;
Unconceived, without a beginning,
For whoever has a beginning has an end;
Undominated, without a name,
For whoever has a name has been fashioned by another;
Unnamable, with no human form,
For whoever has a human form has been fashioned by another.
The One Who Is has its own appearance,
Not like what we have received and seen,
But an alien appearance that surpasses everything
And is superior to everything in the universe.
It looks everywhere and beholds itself in itself.

The One is infinite,
Incomprehensible,
And constantly imperishable.
The One is unequalled,
Immutably good,
Without fault,
Everlasting,
Blessed,
Unknowable,
Yet it knows itself.
The One is immeasurable,
Untraceable,
Perfect,
Without defect.
The One is blessed,
Imperishably,
And is called the Father of All”


Since there is no duality in the One it can also be symbolized as the Mother of all.

"The tao that can be told is not the eternal Tao. The name that can be named is not the eternal Name. The unnamable is the eternally real. Naming is the origin of all particular things. Free from desire, you realize the mystery. Caught in desire, you see only the manifestations. Yet mystery and manifestations arise from the same source. This source is called darkness. Darkness within darkness. The gateway to all understanding."

The Tao Te Ching, chapter 1
The purpose of my life would seem to be to express the truth as I discover it, but in such a manner that it is completely devoid of authority. By having no authority, by being seen by all as utterly unreliable, I express the truth and put everyone in a contradictory position where they can only save themselves by making the truth their own.
Soren Kierkegaard– Journals, 432
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Re: The great invisible one

Postby Karpel Tunnel » Sat Oct 31, 2020 9:11 pm

Artimas wrote:What do you know of or about Abraxas, the demi-urge, the serpents as the waves, the mind entangled in the body by a rubber band, of Sophia? What can be said here on this? Does anyone have any light or knowledge in regards to this concept?

Gnosis and Gnosticism.
That there is a demi-urge seems rather obvious. I mean, look around. Would you design a universe like this?
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Re: The great invisible one

Postby promethean75 » Sat Oct 31, 2020 10:11 pm

Yeah but I'm saying if you are doing anthropomorphic theology you cant posit more than one final, all powerful god who pervades causally over everything else. You get caught in an infinite regress of deities if you do. Monotheism was the most logical kind of theology, even though theology is not legitimate philosophy (imo). It was, in other words, the most sensible of the kinds of theology available.
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Re: The great invisible one

Postby promethean75 » Sat Oct 31, 2020 10:24 pm

Because of its parsimonious reductionalism, you might say. Simplification of axioms concerning the possible nature of a transcendental thing that is, itself, not determined by the natural laws we know of. This is as far as you can go with a metaphysical question like this. What I mean is, naturalism would never fail to provide, describe and explain a concept of 'god' that was monistic in essence... one that involved no philosophical problems like freewill or the ontological separation of god from creation (god transcending space and time).

The progression of stages in the refining of the logic in theology was prolly best categorized by comte and william James to a degree. What I've read, at least. Impressive, parsimonious, with all the rigor of the proper skeptometrist.
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Re: The great invisible one

Postby felix dakat » Sun Nov 01, 2020 7:33 pm

Karpal Tunnel raises the problem of evil. Gnostic mythology concerned itself with that issue early on. Of course the notion of a demiurge goes back at least to Plato. The question was why the material world does not perfectly embody the archetypal forms. One mythical answer was an imperfect mediating creator. This god is not to be confused with the Ultimate One, the ground of being. In The Seven Sermons to the Dead, Jung's quasi-Gnostic essay, Abraxas seems to correspond to the former and his Pleroma to the latter. There Abraxas stands above God and the devil who I suppose are locked in a Manichean-like war between good and evil according to Jung's text.
The purpose of my life would seem to be to express the truth as I discover it, but in such a manner that it is completely devoid of authority. By having no authority, by being seen by all as utterly unreliable, I express the truth and put everyone in a contradictory position where they can only save themselves by making the truth their own.
Soren Kierkegaard– Journals, 432
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Re: The great invisible one

Postby Artimas » Tue Nov 03, 2020 4:47 pm

Karpel Tunnel wrote:
Artimas wrote:What do you know of or about Abraxas, the demi-urge, the serpents as the waves, the mind entangled in the body by a rubber band, of Sophia? What can be said here on this? Does anyone have any light or knowledge in regards to this concept?

Gnosis and Gnosticism.
That there is a demi-urge seems rather obvious. I mean, look around. Would you design a universe like this?


I cannot say for sure, my first guess is yeah I think I would, not for suffering to exist or out of any type of spite but because it is necessary for growth, maybe things have costs regardless of design or manifestation and so it was put together for the greater benefit, it’s what creates the test in the first place I feel, this demiurge and entire existence, the test is weeding the ascended/ascending from the ignorant, like separating oil from water.

Even nothing, is something.
If one is to live balanced with expectations, then one must learn to appreciate the negative as well, to respect darkness in its own home.

All smoke fades, as do all delicate mirrors shatter.

"My ancestors are smiling on me, Imperials. Can you say the same?"

"Science Fiction today ~ Science Fact tomorrow"

Change is inevitable, it can only be delayed or sped up. Choose wisely.

Truth is pain, and pain is gain.


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Re: The great invisible one

Postby Artimas » Tue Nov 03, 2020 4:56 pm

promethean75 wrote:Because of its parsimonious reductionalism, you might say. Simplification of axioms concerning the possible nature of a transcendental thing that is, itself, not determined by the natural laws we know of. This is as far as you can go with a metaphysical question like this. What I mean is, naturalism would never fail to provide, describe and explain a concept of 'god' that was monistic in essence... one that involved no philosophical problems like freewill or the ontological separation of god from creation (god transcending space and time).

The progression of stages in the refining of the logic in theology was prolly best categorized by comte and william James to a degree. What I've read, at least. Impressive, parsimonious, with all the rigor of the proper skeptometrist.


There isn’t any philosophical problem that exists within it really, the issues could arise from the demiurge (duality), it’s why there are the questions there are, where most if not everything contradicts each other or itself and we live in some balance of contradictory essences.

Abraxas transcends this duality and so transcends the demiurge and ignorance. It transcends discussion of it even, making it extremely difficult to understand or know for sure, it is so incomprehensible and outside of this level that it is unknowable in its entirety, perhaps a glimpse every now and then can be shared but ultimately, it can only understand its self and if we are even apart of itself in separate form then the only logical way to understand it would be collectively, a realigning back to it from this state, that’s the staircase to be climbed I feel.

Even nothing, is something.
If one is to live balanced with expectations, then one must learn to appreciate the negative as well, to respect darkness in its own home.

All smoke fades, as do all delicate mirrors shatter.

"My ancestors are smiling on me, Imperials. Can you say the same?"

"Science Fiction today ~ Science Fact tomorrow"

Change is inevitable, it can only be delayed or sped up. Choose wisely.

Truth is pain, and pain is gain.


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Re: The great invisible one

Postby promethean75 » Tue Nov 03, 2020 5:59 pm

Yeah they'd call that some variation of 'negative theology', which basically says... anything you think god is, he ain't.

Now that's tight. How can you go wrong wit dat?
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Re: The great invisible one

Postby Greatest I am » Mon Nov 09, 2020 11:07 pm

Karpel Tunnel wrote:
Artimas wrote:What do you know of or about Abraxas, the demi-urge, the serpents as the waves, the mind entangled in the body by a rubber band, of Sophia? What can be said here on this? Does anyone have any light or knowledge in regards to this concept?

Gnosis and Gnosticism.
That there is a demi-urge seems rather obvious. I mean, look around. Would you design a universe like this?


Actually, yes.

As a Gnostic Christian, I, like the Jesus I follow, see heaven as right here and right now as this is the best of all possible worlds, given our history. This is irrefutable.

I would not change a thing, other than have more people look at reality and see it the way we do.

Remember please that Gnostic Christians hold no supernatural beliefs and see the perfection in nature.

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Re: The great invisible one

Postby Greatest I am » Mon Nov 09, 2020 11:17 pm

Artimas wrote:What do you know of or about Abraxas, the demi-urge, the serpents as the waves, the mind entangled in the body by a rubber band, of Sophia? What can be said here on this? Does anyone have any light or knowledge in regards to this concept?

Gnosis and Gnosticism.


As a Gnostic Christian, I know that he is a mythical construct and in no way real.

I find it better to use logos instead of mythos when discussing my religion. Logos always trumps mythos. With it, there can be an end game. Comparing our myths to other Christian myths, to my mind, is a waste of time. There can be no real end game.

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Re: The great invisible one

Postby felix dakat » Wed Nov 11, 2020 4:26 am

Artimas wrote:
promethean75 wrote:Because of its parsimonious reductionalism, you might say. Simplification of axioms concerning the possible nature of a transcendental thing that is, itself, not determined by the natural laws we know of. This is as far as you can go with a metaphysical question like this. What I mean is, naturalism would never fail to provide, describe and explain a concept of 'god' that was monistic in essence... one that involved no philosophical problems like freewill or the ontological separation of god from creation (god transcending space and time).

The progression of stages in the refining of the logic in theology was prolly best categorized by comte and william James to a degree. What I've read, at least. Impressive, parsimonious, with all the rigor of the proper skeptometrist.


There isn’t any philosophical problem that exists within it really, the issues could arise from the demiurge (duality), it’s why there are the questions there are, where most if not everything contradicts each other or itself and we live in some balance of contradictory essences.

Abraxas transcends this duality and so transcends the demiurge and ignorance. It transcends discussion of it even, making it extremely difficult to understand or know for sure, it is so incomprehensible and outside of this level that it is unknowable in its entirety, perhaps a glimpse every now and then can be shared but ultimately, it can only understand its self and if we are even apart of itself in separate form then the only logical way to understand it would be collectively, a realigning back to it from this state, that’s the staircase to be climbed I feel.


According to Stephan A. Hoeller, author and scholar of Gnosticism and Jungian psychology and Regionary Bishop of Ecclesia Gnostica:

The awesome and mysterious figure of Abraxas appears first in the latter part of the Second Sermon(Jung). He is called initially is “a god about whom you know nothing, because men have forgotten him.” In contrast to Helios, the god of light, and the Devil, god of darkness, Abraxas appears as the supreme power of being in whom light and darkness are both united and transcended. He is also defined as the principle of irresistible activity and is the closest approximation to an active manifestation of the Pleroma one may imagine.


The meaning of the Abraxas figure emerges ...when the name is decoded in accordance with the numerological principles, which in both Jewish and pagan circles enjoyed great respect in the ancient world. The numeration of Abraxas in Greek is: Alpha-1, Beta-2, Rho-100, Alpha-1, Xi-60, Alpha-1, Sigma-200; which totals 365. Similarly the Hebrew numeration yields the same total in the following manner: Aleph-1, Beth-2, Resh-200, Aleph-1, Qoph-100, Aleph-1, Samekh-60, equalling 365.

It has been suggested that the number 365, being that of the days in a year, would readily offer itself as an identification of the deity that rules over the totality of time, and by whose power time is both made and unmade. The unmaking of time—like the Buddhist endeavor to escape from the grip of the monster-god Mahakala, ruler of the revolving wheel of duration—is a true Gnostic concern. In a sense it may be regarded as the hallmark of the true Gnosis, possessed only by the most highly accomplished pneumatic or spiritual individual.

Abraxas, as the all-pervading pervading energy of being, is thus the sum of and the liberator from the cycle of necessity, freeing man from the agony of time, or as Mircea Eliade called it, the terror of history. The 365 zones of the inner realm, which are outwardly manifest as the same number of days, represent the sum total of psychological obstacles which stand in the way of the freedom of the soul, causing its death-like entombment in limitation.

It is thus evident that Abraxas, who is the power capable of liberating us from this cyclic bondage, would have held a great appeal for the Alexandrian Gnostic seekers after spiritual freedom. Not only does Abraxas bring freedom from the tedium of time—which brings frustration, old age, illness and ultimately death—but he also stops the wheel of the cycles. Thus, he puts an end to repetitious experience, the blind, unconscious reliving of aeons of unprofitable cosmic busy-work resulting in nothing but further involvement in concerns that are irrelevant to the soul.

Between the two often-mentioned alternatives of a linear, historical ego-consciousness and a circular, ahistorical unconsciousness, Abraxas stands as the third possibility of the eternally available timeless moment, the eternal now, the recognition and utilization of which brings freedom from time both in its linear and its cyclic aspects. Hoeller, Stephan A. The Gnostic Jung and the Seven Sermons to the Dead (Quest Books) . Quest Books. Kindle Edition.
The purpose of my life would seem to be to express the truth as I discover it, but in such a manner that it is completely devoid of authority. By having no authority, by being seen by all as utterly unreliable, I express the truth and put everyone in a contradictory position where they can only save themselves by making the truth their own.
Soren Kierkegaard– Journals, 432
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