Moderator: Dan~
Dan~ wrote:You're 78y old?
Happy birthday.
Sorry that you must be old.
Maybe you don't have too many old age problems yet.
I'm not sure.
It's interesting you find out about wholeness from religious sources.
I'm still wondering if all is at peace.
Sometimes I feel that all is at peace,
but i worry it is just my own comfort,
and not a real thing in the world.
Dan~ wrote:Suffering may be illusory,
but when you are at your worst,
a miracle seems like a really good thing,
but you don't get the miracle.
Some people break, they die, praying.
Isn't all healing whether through medicine or the body's own resources worthy of being considered divine?
Ierrellus wrote:Wholeness eschews duality. See the NT book of James on divided minds and psyches.
BTW, I'm 78. and have learned of wholeness (holiness) from the Bible, from oriental religions, from indigenous people and from mystics. I have also had personal experiences of oneness with the Nature and the universe. Duality is missing the mark. Duality seeks to divide that which is whole (holy). Remember atonement is at- one-ment.
Dan~ wrote:Something I was told a while back:
All good thoughts come from the holy spirit,
and all bad thoughts come from the devil.
This seems like an absolute duality to me.
The mormon missionaries told me this.
It seems like an extreme, unhealthy idea.
Thought-insertion is a form of psychosis.
(...)
Satan would need to be extremely well funded
to be able to test and screw with everyone on earth.
(...)
Shadow lords are masters of illusion.
They make fake gods, and trick real gods/demigods.
I worry that my missionary friends have bore an error
that will lead to much untruth.
omar wrote:Hello IerrellusIerrellus wrote:Wholeness eschews duality. See the NT book of James on divided minds and psyches.
BTW, I'm 78. and have learned of wholeness (holiness) from the Bible, from oriental religions, from indigenous people and from mystics. I have also had personal experiences of oneness with the Nature and the universe. Duality is missing the mark. Duality seeks to divide that which is whole (holy). Remember atonement is at- one-ment.
Sure, there are a lot of religions, even christianities, that are monistic. However that does not prove that their opposites are wrong, that dualism is and has to be false. Wholeness seems to be a formal concept, in my opinion, because what we experience is never whole. We always experience a surface, a what-is-for-us and never what-is-for-the other. What I write inelegantly I am sure you recognize as various philosophies. We could add more. But they all hint to the point that Wholeness is not as easily derived from experience as is Duality.
When people see some things as beautiful, other things become ugly.
When people see some things as good, other things become bad.
Being and non-being create each other.
Difficult and easy support each other.
Long and short define each other.
High and low depend on each other.
Before and after follow each other.
Mitchell, Stephen. Tao Te Ching: A New English Version (Perennial Classics) (p. 4). HarperCollins. Kindle Edition.
Mark 8:36, KJV: "For what shall it profit a man, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul?"
Dan~ wrote:Something I was told a while back:
All good thoughts come from the holy spirit,
and all bad thoughts come from the devil.
This seems like an absolute duality to me.
We exist in an ecosystem in which all parts are interdependent constituents of the whole. When we realize that we are one thing, the divisions among us become illusionary. This fact is becoming apparent to scientists and evolutionary psychologists. It is not a mere belief of certain religions; it is a fact of existence in this particular biosphere. Wholeness is certainly not an abstract concept. It can be experienced. Dualism is evidence of a fall of man into mental contraries. The survival of human life on this planet demands a view of the Other , not as in conflict with the "I", but as part of a whole, which Includes I and Thou.
"We must love one another or die." Global warming underscores the fact that we are all in this together. The us vs them mentality only adds to the prospect of man's possible self destruction. If we do not pay attention to what is at stake on the macro level, we forfeit all claims of caring about what occurs in the meso and micro levels of life on Earth.
Even Dawkins admits that altruism is an adaptational plus. The mental shift to we, as is noted by mystics, is the cure for suffering caused by the ravenous ego. My American native friends see the rocks, trees and animals as each and all part of a larger family. That is the spiritual outlook that could prevent man's present race toward self-destruction.
I would suggest that it is a vision of the whole in which each is an integral part that comes from the existential experience of belonging. I don't see how belonging can be derived from us vs them. And I don't see how ethics is possible without a view of the neighbor as equal to thyself. Yes, it saddens me that racism and other divisive ideas have persisted now into the 20th century. But these ideas have not produced one positive result for the improvement of the human race.
I still don't see how ethics can be derived from us/them without considering the them as deserving of what the us deserves. The situation of enmity seldom, if ever, allows empathy and compassion. Schweitzer believed that the "kingdom is within" everyone, a God longing or hunger for righteousness. Sartre is much too bleak for my taste. I don't see how, currently in the U.S., we can escape the present pandemics of Covid and racism with us vs them attitudes. They seem to thrive on us vs them.
Ierrellus wrote:Hello Omar,
I cannot speak for the Democrats, but I do believe that the Golden Rule applies to both Self and Other as equally deserving, especially in how each is treated. Respect for the differences between us and them is the attitude that allows brotherhood. Seeing what is the same between us enhances this respect. I like the idea of plenitude which is One thing comprised of an ultimate variety if interdependent parts (Lovejoy). Realizing we are all in the same boat should foster compassion and empathy.
Return to Religion and Spirituality
Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot]