God given rights. Do you really have any?

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God given rights. Do you really have any?

Postby Greatest I am » Sat May 16, 2020 2:53 pm

God given rights. Do you really have any?

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.

When a right is given to us by governments, they assume and have a duty to ensure that they are never taken from us. If governments do not accept and do this enforcement duty, then citizens have a corrupted government.

If a right is given to a soul, by god, he would have a duty to ensure that they are never taken from us. The fact that they often are, indicates that he is shirking his duty.

To me, rights are like laws, completely useless and worthless unless they can be enforced by a given power when they are breached.

Do you have any real god given rights, or are god given rights just a feel-good lie that we tell ourselves we have so as to ignore that we have none?

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Re: God given rights. Do you really have any?

Postby MagsJ » Sat May 16, 2020 3:33 pm

Greatest I am wrote:Do you have any real god given rights, or are god given rights just a feel-good lie that we tell ourselves we have so as to ignore that we have none?

Regards
DL

The times, they (have been) are a-changing.. laws are more stringent, and with that freedom, restricted.. making any god-given rights seem unapparent, but I think they have become sewn into the fabric of those parts of Theistic society. This is probably more apparent in non-Western religions, because either not many here are putting their faith in Faith or because they are part of the newer religions.
The possibility of anything we can imagine existing is endless and infinite.. - MagsJ

I haven't got the time to spend the time reading something that is telling me nothing, as I will never be able to get back that time, and I may need it for something at some point in time.. Wait, What! - MagsJ

You’re suggestions and I, just simply don’t mix.. like oil on water, or a really bad DJ - MagsJ
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Re: God given rights. Do you really have any?

Postby Greatest I am » Sat May 16, 2020 4:31 pm

MagsJ wrote:
Greatest I am wrote:Do you have any real god given rights, or are god given rights just a feel-good lie that we tell ourselves we have so as to ignore that we have none?

Regards
DL

The times, they (have been) are a-changing.. laws are more stringent, and with that freedom, restricted.. making any god-given rights seem unapparent, but I think they have become sewn into the fabric of those parts of Theistic society. This is probably more apparent in non-Western religions, because either not many here are putting their faith in Faith or because they are part of the newer religions.


What sewn in rights are you referring to?

I do not really see any rights from god in scriptures.

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DL
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Re: God given rights. Do you really have any?

Postby felix dakat » Sat May 16, 2020 6:03 pm

Greatest I am wrote:God given rights. Do you really have any?

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.

When a right is given to us by governments, they assume and have a duty to ensure that they are never taken from us. If governments do not accept and do this enforcement duty, then citizens have a corrupted government.

If a right is given to a soul, by god, he would have a duty to ensure that they are never taken from us. The fact that they often are, indicates that he is shirking his duty.

To me, rights are like laws, completely useless and worthless unless they can be enforced by a given power when they are breached.

Do you have any real god given rights, or are god given rights just a feel-good lie that we tell ourselves we have so as to ignore that we have none?

Regards
DL


I think that the idea of individual rights and responsibilities derives from the mythic notions that we were created in the image of God or that we contain a divine spark. During the enlightenment this divine element became identified with reason which every individual was believed to have a capacity for at least potentially. Reason was thus believed to be the essential human capacity necessary for the rational discourse and action that underpins a democratic/republican society.
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Re: God given rights. Do you really have any?

Postby MagsJ » Sun May 17, 2020 1:28 pm

Greatest I am wrote:What sewn in rights are you referring to?

..not any one thing or Right, but more a blanket feeling of Community spirit, within one’s Faith.. or non-Faith, even.

I do not really see any rights from god in scriptures.

Regards
DL

Well, there’s a lot more donts than dos in scripture lol, but as we go through our Faith’s Sacraments, we start earning our Spiritual brownie-points, and so acquire less burdens on ourselves in relation to the world.. the sacraments being rights-of-passage, within that Faith.

Do all Christian faiths.. agnostic or otherwise, have Sacraments? My knowledge on such aspects of the Faith is very lacking, but interesting to learn about.
The possibility of anything we can imagine existing is endless and infinite.. - MagsJ

I haven't got the time to spend the time reading something that is telling me nothing, as I will never be able to get back that time, and I may need it for something at some point in time.. Wait, What! - MagsJ

You’re suggestions and I, just simply don’t mix.. like oil on water, or a really bad DJ - MagsJ
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Re: God given rights. Do you really have any?

Postby Greatest I am » Thu May 28, 2020 5:32 pm

felix dakat wrote:
Greatest I am wrote:God given rights. Do you really have any?

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.

When a right is given to us by governments, they assume and have a duty to ensure that they are never taken from us. If governments do not accept and do this enforcement duty, then citizens have a corrupted government.

If a right is given to a soul, by god, he would have a duty to ensure that they are never taken from us. The fact that they often are, indicates that he is shirking his duty.

To me, rights are like laws, completely useless and worthless unless they can be enforced by a given power when they are breached.

Do you have any real god given rights, or are god given rights just a feel-good lie that we tell ourselves we have so as to ignore that we have none?

Regards
DL


I think that the idea of individual rights and responsibilities derives from the mythic notions that we were created in the image of God or that we contain a divine spark. During the enlightenment this divine element became identified with reason which every individual was believed to have a capacity for at least potentially. Reason was thus believed to be the essential human capacity necessary for the rational discourse and action that underpins a democratic/republican society.


Well put.

I think it unfortunate for us all that Christians decided to go mythos instead of logos with the logic and reason that comes with that.

I blame their lying preachers for dumbing them down to un-reasoned beliefs, like talking serpents and a Satan.

I fancy myself a bit of a mystic as the mystical Jesus is who I used to push my apotheosis. I preach for following his way instead of following the Roman created Jesus. That Jesus wants to slave us to governments and religions while the mystical Jesus wants to free us from them.

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Re: God given rights. Do you really have any?

Postby Greatest I am » Thu May 28, 2020 5:41 pm

MagsJ wrote:
Greatest I am wrote:What sewn in rights are you referring to?

..not any one thing or Right, but more a blanket feeling of Community spirit, within one’s Faith.. or non-Faith, even.

I do not really see any rights from god in scriptures.

Regards
DL

Well, there’s a lot more donts than dos in scripture lol, but as we go through our Faith’s Sacraments, we start earning our Spiritual brownie-points, and so acquire less burdens on ourselves in relation to the world.. the sacraments being rights-of-passage, within that Faith.

Do all Christian faiths.. agnostic or otherwise, have Sacraments? My knowledge on such aspects of the Faith is very lacking, but interesting to learn about.


I will read your "agnostic" as Gnostic Christian.

As esoteric ecumenists, we are mostly agnostic but we are also perpetual seekers after god. God here I define as the best rules and laws to live life by.

Your first comment is a bit weird to my ear. If I tell you to not do something, am I not indirectly also telling you what to do?

If I say, do not kill, am I not also saying put life above death?

I think every moral tenet has a Yin and Yang side. That is why the Golden Rule can be said from a positive POV but it can also be given from the negative POV.

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Re: God given rights. Do you really have any?

Postby MagsJ » Mon Jun 01, 2020 11:20 am

-
“Do all Christian faiths.. agnostic or otherwise, have Sacraments? My knowledge on such aspects of the Faith is very lacking, but interesting to learn about.“
Greatest I am wrote:I will read your "agnostic" as Gnostic Christian.

As esoteric ecumenists, we are mostly agnostic but we are also perpetual seekers after god. God here I define as the best rules and laws to live life by.

That’s very Dharman and Brahman like..

Your first comment is a bit weird to my ear. If I tell you to not do something, am I not indirectly also telling you what to do?

If I say, do not kill, am I not also saying put life above death?

I think every moral tenet has a Yin and Yang side. That is why the Golden Rule can be said from a positive POV but it can also be given from the negative POV.

MagsJ wrote: Well, there’s a lot more donts than dos in scripture..

Well that’s the Roman Catholic Church for ya.. focusing on what not to do, as opposed on doing the right thing. Perhaps those initial followers needed a firm hand back then.. steeped more in doing harm than good.. the good, leading the bad to a place of good, until it becomes ingrained in their psyche and ultimately innate.
The possibility of anything we can imagine existing is endless and infinite.. - MagsJ

I haven't got the time to spend the time reading something that is telling me nothing, as I will never be able to get back that time, and I may need it for something at some point in time.. Wait, What! - MagsJ

You’re suggestions and I, just simply don’t mix.. like oil on water, or a really bad DJ - MagsJ
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Re: God given rights. Do you really have any?

Postby Gloominary » Tue Jun 09, 2020 3:37 pm

Rights come from having enough self-respect to not take people's shit.
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Re: God given rights. Do you really have any?

Postby Greatest I am » Tue Jun 16, 2020 11:24 pm

MagsJ wrote:-
“Do all Christian faiths.. agnostic or otherwise, have Sacraments? My knowledge on such aspects of the Faith is very lacking, but interesting to learn about.“
Greatest I am wrote:I will read your "agnostic" as Gnostic Christian.

As esoteric ecumenists, we are mostly agnostic but we are also perpetual seekers after god. God here I define as the best rules and laws to live life by.

That’s very Dharman and Brahman like..

Your first comment is a bit weird to my ear. If I tell you to not do something, am I not indirectly also telling you what to do?

If I say, do not kill, am I not also saying put life above death?

I think every moral tenet has a Yin and Yang side. That is why the Golden Rule can be said from a positive POV but it can also be given from the negative POV.

MagsJ wrote: Well, there’s a lot more donts than dos in scripture..

Well that’s the Roman Catholic Church for ya.. focusing on what not to do, as opposed on doing the right thing. Perhaps those initial followers needed a firm hand back then.. steeped more in doing harm than good.. the good, leading the bad to a place of good, until it becomes ingrained in their psyche and ultimately innate.


The good leading the evil is a good idea.

I do not see the good as using inquisitions and jihads as they would have moral arguments to convert with, instead of using murder the way the mainstream religions have and continue to do, although not at the murdering level unless you are gay.

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Re: God given rights. Do you really have any?

Postby Greatest I am » Tue Jun 16, 2020 11:25 pm

Gloominary wrote:Rights come from having enough self-respect to not take people's shit.


I will not argue against this.

I agree that it is up to individuals to take rights, as they cannot be given.

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Re: God given rights. Do you really have any?

Postby MagsJ » Wed Jun 17, 2020 3:05 pm

Greatest I am wrote:The good leading the evil is a good idea.

Like how new nuns and monks are guided by the elder ones, to show them a better way/code to live by and operate from.. not that I’m saying that new nuns and monks are evil, but probably micro-feral and misguided.. at this stage.
I do not see the good as using inquisitions and jihads as they would have moral arguments to convert with, instead of using murder the way the mainstream religions have and continue to do, although not at the murdering level unless you are gay.

I have always found it odd that religions did that.. in mass-converting through fear-of-slaughter, but a non-convert wouldn’t be contributing to or paying alms to the inquisition’s Practice, so they obviously gots-to-go.. for fear of them growing larger in number and therefore stronger, and so become a formidable enemy.


Greatest I am wrote:
Gloominary wrote:Rights come from having enough self-respect to not take people's shit.
I will not argue against this.

I agree that it is up to individuals to take rights, as they cannot be given.

If the planet abided by the Universal Laws of Righteousness, then... If only.
The possibility of anything we can imagine existing is endless and infinite.. - MagsJ

I haven't got the time to spend the time reading something that is telling me nothing, as I will never be able to get back that time, and I may need it for something at some point in time.. Wait, What! - MagsJ

You’re suggestions and I, just simply don’t mix.. like oil on water, or a really bad DJ - MagsJ
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Re: God given rights. Do you really have any?

Postby Greatest I am » Fri Jun 19, 2020 6:46 pm

MagsJ wrote:
Greatest I am wrote:The good leading the evil is a good idea.

Like how new nuns and monks are guided by the elder ones, to show them a better way/code to live by and operate from.. not that I’m saying that new nuns and monks are evil, but probably micro-feral and misguided.. at this stage.
I do not see the good as using inquisitions and jihads as they would have moral arguments to convert with, instead of using murder the way the mainstream religions have and continue to do, although not at the murdering level unless you are gay.

I have always found it odd that religions did that.. in mass-converting through fear-of-slaughter, but a non-convert wouldn’t be contributing to or paying alms to the inquisition’s Practice, so they obviously gots-to-go.. for fear of them growing larger in number and therefore stronger, and so become a formidable enemy.


Greatest I am wrote:
Gloominary wrote:Rights come from having enough self-respect to not take people's shit.
I will not argue against this.

I agree that it is up to individuals to take rights, as they cannot be given.

If the planet abided by the Universal Laws of Righteousness, then... If only.


That is why many scholars of the Gnostic Christian type push for the Golden Rule as the main rule to shoot for.

Gnostic Christians have also tied righteousness to quality for all souls. We unlike Christians, are universalists who posit a heaven but no hell.

Hell would make it impossible for the will of god that is shown in scriptures as coming to pass. That will being god wanting and willing that no souls be lost and all be saved.

Most do not see the righteousness rule as we do. That is why some say that the only good Christians are Gnostic Christians.

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DL
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Re: God given rights. Do you really have any?

Postby Dan~ » Mon Jun 22, 2020 8:39 pm

felix dakat wrote:
Greatest I am wrote:God given rights. Do you really have any?

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.

When a right is given to us by governments, they assume and have a duty to ensure that they are never taken from us. If governments do not accept and do this enforcement duty, then citizens have a corrupted government.

If a right is given to a soul, by god, he would have a duty to ensure that they are never taken from us. The fact that they often are, indicates that he is shirking his duty.

To me, rights are like laws, completely useless and worthless unless they can be enforced by a given power when they are breached.

Do you have any real god given rights, or are god given rights just a feel-good lie that we tell ourselves we have so as to ignore that we have none?

Regards
DL


I think that the idea of individual rights and responsibilities derives from the mythic notions that we were created in the image of God or that we contain a divine spark. During the enlightenment this divine element became identified with reason which every individual was believed to have a capacity for at least potentially. Reason was thus believed to be the essential human capacity necessary for the rational discourse and action that underpins a democratic/republican society.


The Right-To-Live seems like the most essential right.
But creatures shit on those rights all the time.
So they don't exist unless you enforce them somehow.
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Re: God given rights. Do you really have any?

Postby Ecmandu » Mon Jun 22, 2020 10:14 pm

Dan~ wrote:
felix dakat wrote:
Greatest I am wrote:God given rights. Do you really have any?

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.

When a right is given to us by governments, they assume and have a duty to ensure that they are never taken from us. If governments do not accept and do this enforcement duty, then citizens have a corrupted government.

If a right is given to a soul, by god, he would have a duty to ensure that they are never taken from us. The fact that they often are, indicates that he is shirking his duty.

To me, rights are like laws, completely useless and worthless unless they can be enforced by a given power when they are breached.

Do you have any real god given rights, or are god given rights just a feel-good lie that we tell ourselves we have so as to ignore that we have none?

Regards
DL


I think that the idea of individual rights and responsibilities derives from the mythic notions that we were created in the image of God or that we contain a divine spark. During the enlightenment this divine element became identified with reason which every individual was believed to have a capacity for at least potentially. Reason was thus believed to be the essential human capacity necessary for the rational discourse and action that underpins a democratic/republican society.


The Right-To-Live seems like the most essential right.
But creatures shit on those rights all the time.
So they don't exist unless you enforce them somehow.


Better to be obliviated than send to hell forever.

Right-to -live is the possibly worst thing that can happen.
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