Wholeness

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Re: Wholeness

Postby felix dakat » Sat Mar 20, 2021 12:57 am

It’s dark because you are trying too hard.
Lightly child, lightly. Learn to do everything lightly.
Yes, feel lightly even though you’re feeling deeply.
Just lightly let things happen and lightly cope with them.

I was so preposterously serious in those days, such a humorless little prig.
Lightly, lightly – it’s the best advice ever given me.
When it comes to dying even. Nothing ponderous, or portentous, or emphatic.
No rhetoric, no tremolos,
no self conscious persona putting on its celebrated imitation of Christ or Little Nell.
And of course, no theology, no metaphysics.
Just the fact of dying and the fact of the clear light.

So throw away your baggage and go forward.
There are quicksands all about you, sucking at your feet,
trying to suck you down into fear and self-pity and despair.
That’s why you must walk so lightly.
Lightly my darling,
on tiptoes and no luggage,
not even a sponge bag,
completely unencumbered.

-Aldous Huxley , Island
The purpose of my life would seem to be to express the truth as I discover it, but in such a manner that it is completely devoid of authority. By having no authority, by being seen by all as utterly unreliable, I express the truth and put everyone in a contradictory position where they can only save themselves by making the truth their own.
Soren Kierkegaard– Journals, 432
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Re: Wholeness

Postby polishyouthgotipbanned » Sat Mar 20, 2021 1:07 am

Such bad poetry(as most Oriental art), read Charles Swinburne instead.
At the beginning there was only Chaos, Night, dark Erebus, and deep Tartarus. Earth, the air and heaven had no existence. Firstly, blackwinged Night laid a germless egg in the bosom of the infinite deeps of Erebus, and from this, after the revolution of long ages, sprang the graceful Eros with his glittering golden wings, swift as the whirlwinds of the tempest. He mated in deep Tartarus with dark Chaos, winged like himself, and thus hatched forth our race, which was the first to see the light. That of the Immortals did nove yielded themselves to their lovers when almost at the end of their youth, being led away by the gift of a quail, a waterfowl, a goose, or a cock.
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Re: Wholeness

Postby felix dakat » Sat Mar 20, 2021 1:16 am

and then there's this...

The great boon of repression is that it makes it possible to live decisively in an overwhelmingly miraculous and incomprehensible world, a world so full of beauty, majesty, and terror that if animals perceived it all they would be paralyzed to act. ... What would the average man (sic) do with a full consciousness of absurdity? He has fashioned his character for the precise purpose of putting it between himself and the facts of life; it is his special tour-de-force that allows him to ignore incongruities, to nourish himself on impossibilities, to thrive on blindness. He accomplishes thereby a peculiarly human victory: the ability to be smug about terror.

-Ernest Becker, The Denial of Death
The purpose of my life would seem to be to express the truth as I discover it, but in such a manner that it is completely devoid of authority. By having no authority, by being seen by all as utterly unreliable, I express the truth and put everyone in a contradictory position where they can only save themselves by making the truth their own.
Soren Kierkegaard– Journals, 432
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Re: Wholeness

Postby polishyouthgotipbanned » Sat Mar 20, 2021 1:22 am

Thats some good stuff bro, first time I am seeing something sensible on this forum. Post more. I dont agree with the psychoanalysts and psychologists but this is at least interesting and coherent.
At the beginning there was only Chaos, Night, dark Erebus, and deep Tartarus. Earth, the air and heaven had no existence. Firstly, blackwinged Night laid a germless egg in the bosom of the infinite deeps of Erebus, and from this, after the revolution of long ages, sprang the graceful Eros with his glittering golden wings, swift as the whirlwinds of the tempest. He mated in deep Tartarus with dark Chaos, winged like himself, and thus hatched forth our race, which was the first to see the light. That of the Immortals did nove yielded themselves to their lovers when almost at the end of their youth, being led away by the gift of a quail, a waterfowl, a goose, or a cock.
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Re: Wholeness

Postby polishyouthgotipbanned » Sat Mar 20, 2021 1:26 am

Has Huxley ever written anything on Christianity?
At the beginning there was only Chaos, Night, dark Erebus, and deep Tartarus. Earth, the air and heaven had no existence. Firstly, blackwinged Night laid a germless egg in the bosom of the infinite deeps of Erebus, and from this, after the revolution of long ages, sprang the graceful Eros with his glittering golden wings, swift as the whirlwinds of the tempest. He mated in deep Tartarus with dark Chaos, winged like himself, and thus hatched forth our race, which was the first to see the light. That of the Immortals did nove yielded themselves to their lovers when almost at the end of their youth, being led away by the gift of a quail, a waterfowl, a goose, or a cock.
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Re: Wholeness

Postby felix dakat » Sat Mar 20, 2021 1:30 am

polishyouthgotipbanned wrote:Has Huxley ever written anything on Christianity?


The perennial philosophy.
The purpose of my life would seem to be to express the truth as I discover it, but in such a manner that it is completely devoid of authority. By having no authority, by being seen by all as utterly unreliable, I express the truth and put everyone in a contradictory position where they can only save themselves by making the truth their own.
Soren Kierkegaard– Journals, 432
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Re: Wholeness

Postby felix dakat » Sat Mar 20, 2021 1:31 am

polishyouthgotipbanned wrote:Thats some good stuff bro, first time I am seeing something sensible on this forum. Post more. I dont agree with the psychoanalysts and psychologists but this is at least interesting and coherent.


Terror management theory
The purpose of my life would seem to be to express the truth as I discover it, but in such a manner that it is completely devoid of authority. By having no authority, by being seen by all as utterly unreliable, I express the truth and put everyone in a contradictory position where they can only save themselves by making the truth their own.
Soren Kierkegaard– Journals, 432
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Re: Wholeness

Postby polishyouthgotipbanned » Sat Mar 20, 2021 1:36 am

I don't have a problem with psychology but with their dishonesty as to what is possible to be established and what isn't. Most of them talk about things like fear or hatred as if these were some rigorous and observable phenomena when we simply and plainly lack the technological and scientific ability to penetrate the mechanisms of brains and cognition and emotion in general to any meaningful degree. And psychoanalysis is complete quackery that is completely discredited and scientifically hopeless, psychology has to wait and accept it is only relevant as a branch of biology and sociology is not a science, like philosophy or economics, and that's completely fine.
At the beginning there was only Chaos, Night, dark Erebus, and deep Tartarus. Earth, the air and heaven had no existence. Firstly, blackwinged Night laid a germless egg in the bosom of the infinite deeps of Erebus, and from this, after the revolution of long ages, sprang the graceful Eros with his glittering golden wings, swift as the whirlwinds of the tempest. He mated in deep Tartarus with dark Chaos, winged like himself, and thus hatched forth our race, which was the first to see the light. That of the Immortals did nove yielded themselves to their lovers when almost at the end of their youth, being led away by the gift of a quail, a waterfowl, a goose, or a cock.
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Re: Wholeness

Postby felix dakat » Sat Mar 20, 2021 1:53 am

I know what fear and hatred are. I don't need to wait around for science to tell me.
The purpose of my life would seem to be to express the truth as I discover it, but in such a manner that it is completely devoid of authority. By having no authority, by being seen by all as utterly unreliable, I express the truth and put everyone in a contradictory position where they can only save themselves by making the truth their own.
Soren Kierkegaard– Journals, 432
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Re: Wholeness

Postby polishyouthgotipbanned » Sat Mar 20, 2021 2:02 am

8) 8) 8) 8) 8)
At the beginning there was only Chaos, Night, dark Erebus, and deep Tartarus. Earth, the air and heaven had no existence. Firstly, blackwinged Night laid a germless egg in the bosom of the infinite deeps of Erebus, and from this, after the revolution of long ages, sprang the graceful Eros with his glittering golden wings, swift as the whirlwinds of the tempest. He mated in deep Tartarus with dark Chaos, winged like himself, and thus hatched forth our race, which was the first to see the light. That of the Immortals did nove yielded themselves to their lovers when almost at the end of their youth, being led away by the gift of a quail, a waterfowl, a goose, or a cock.
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Re: Wholeness

Postby polishyouthgotipbanned » Sat Mar 20, 2021 2:02 am

8) 8) 8) 8) 8)
At the beginning there was only Chaos, Night, dark Erebus, and deep Tartarus. Earth, the air and heaven had no existence. Firstly, blackwinged Night laid a germless egg in the bosom of the infinite deeps of Erebus, and from this, after the revolution of long ages, sprang the graceful Eros with his glittering golden wings, swift as the whirlwinds of the tempest. He mated in deep Tartarus with dark Chaos, winged like himself, and thus hatched forth our race, which was the first to see the light. That of the Immortals did nove yielded themselves to their lovers when almost at the end of their youth, being led away by the gift of a quail, a waterfowl, a goose, or a cock.
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Re: Wholeness

Postby Sculptor » Wed Mar 24, 2021 10:24 am

polishyouthgotipbanned wrote:Has Huxley ever written anything on Christianity?


Which one I can think of three.
Julien, Thomas Henry, and Aldous
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Re: Wholeness

Postby Sculptor » Wed Mar 24, 2021 10:31 am

felix dakat wrote:
polishyouthgotipbanned wrote:Has Huxley ever written anything on Christianity?


The perennial philosophy.


Not really about Christianity, though is it.
It is a failed attempt atfinding a "highest" common denominator to a series of incompatible religions, only to conclude with a sort of half baked atheism.

Grand father Thomas Henry mentions God only to dismiss him, coining the term agnostic.

2 Other notable Huxley's were eugenicists, so probably not much use to the discusion.
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Re: Wholeness

Postby Sculptor » Wed Mar 24, 2021 10:33 am

felix dakat wrote:I know what fear and hatred are. I don't need to wait around for science to tell me.


Science can tell you more about them, beyond your own personal experience of them.
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Re: Wholeness

Postby felix dakat » Wed Mar 24, 2021 1:05 pm

Sculptor wrote:
polishyouthgotipbanned wrote:Has Huxley ever written anything on Christianity?


Which one I can think of three.
Julien, Thomas Henry, and Aldous


If you scroll up you will see that he was responding to a quotation by Aldous Huxley.
The purpose of my life would seem to be to express the truth as I discover it, but in such a manner that it is completely devoid of authority. By having no authority, by being seen by all as utterly unreliable, I express the truth and put everyone in a contradictory position where they can only save themselves by making the truth their own.
Soren Kierkegaard– Journals, 432
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Re: Wholeness

Postby felix dakat » Wed Mar 24, 2021 1:13 pm

Sculptor wrote:
felix dakat wrote:
polishyouthgotipbanned wrote:Has Huxley ever written anything on Christianity?


The perennial philosophy.


Not really about Christianity, though is it.
It is a failed attempt atfinding a "highest" common denominator to a series of incompatible religions, only to conclude with a sort of half baked atheism.

Grand father Thomas Henry mentions God only to dismiss him, coining the term agnostic.

2 Other notable Huxley's were eugenicists, so probably not much use to the discusion.


How did Aldous Huxley fail? What do you mean by "half baked atheism"?
The purpose of my life would seem to be to express the truth as I discover it, but in such a manner that it is completely devoid of authority. By having no authority, by being seen by all as utterly unreliable, I express the truth and put everyone in a contradictory position where they can only save themselves by making the truth their own.
Soren Kierkegaard– Journals, 432
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Re: Wholeness

Postby felix dakat » Wed Mar 24, 2021 1:14 pm

Sculptor wrote:
felix dakat wrote:I know what fear and hatred are. I don't need to wait around for science to tell me.


Science can tell you more about them, beyond your own personal experience of them.


That's true. And you could know everything that science can tell you about them but without your own personal experience of them you wouldn't know what they were essentially.
The purpose of my life would seem to be to express the truth as I discover it, but in such a manner that it is completely devoid of authority. By having no authority, by being seen by all as utterly unreliable, I express the truth and put everyone in a contradictory position where they can only save themselves by making the truth their own.
Soren Kierkegaard– Journals, 432
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Re: Wholeness

Postby felix dakat » Thu Mar 25, 2021 10:29 pm

"Any entity whose essence is made up of existence, is essentially opposed to the possibility of our getting it in our grasp as an entity which is a whole."

Martin Heidegger, Being and Time, H233, page 276
Last edited by felix dakat on Fri Mar 26, 2021 12:08 am, edited 1 time in total.
The purpose of my life would seem to be to express the truth as I discover it, but in such a manner that it is completely devoid of authority. By having no authority, by being seen by all as utterly unreliable, I express the truth and put everyone in a contradictory position where they can only save themselves by making the truth their own.
Soren Kierkegaard– Journals, 432
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Re: Wholeness

Postby MagsJ » Thu Mar 25, 2021 10:47 pm

MagsJ wrote:
felix dakat wrote:Right delusions are signs of psychosis. What your experiencing sounds like depersonalization or derealization. Your ability to test reality seems to be intact. I've had episodes like that.
..it’s just part of the journey, on the road to cf-recovery. I’ve quite enjoyed the surrealness that it brought along with it.. missing that already.

10 Simple Ways to Relieve Depersonalization

By Shaun O' Connor
Last updated: 14 Jan 2020
~ 4 MIN READ


1. Read Aloud. ... I do sometimes, but not always.
2. Cut out Caffeine. ... Not my morning coffee, No!!!
3. Listen to Podcasts and Music. ... Music is the food of love, so I do listen on - podcasts.. sometimes.
4. Avoid Drugs. ... (I) Don’t do drugs, kids.
5. Get Up Early. ... But not if I can’t..
6. Go to Bed Early. ... But not if I can’t..
7. Practice Your Hobbies. ... But not if I can’t..
8. Don't Overreact. ... I never do..
9. Don’t Avoid Any Activities. ... But not if I couldn’t help, but to..
10 Be Social! But not if I couldn’t help, not to..

Detoxing, resting up well, exercising, hydrating, are also all good aids to becoming less derealised/more Whole again.
The possibility of anything we can imagine existing is endless and infinite.. - MagsJ
I haven't got the time to spend the time reading something that is telling me nothing, as I will never be able to get back that time, and I may need it for something at some point in time.. Huh! - MagsJ
You’re suggestions and I, just simply don’t mix.. like oil on water, or a really bad DJ - MagsJ
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Re: Wholeness

Postby felix dakat » Fri Mar 26, 2021 1:26 am

MagsJ wrote:
MagsJ wrote:
felix dakat wrote:Right delusions are signs of psychosis. What your experiencing sounds like depersonalization or derealization. Your ability to test reality seems to be intact. I've had episodes like that.
..it’s just part of the journey, on the road to cf-recovery. I’ve quite enjoyed the surrealness that it brought along with it.. missing that already.

10 Simple Ways to Relieve Depersonalization

By Shaun O' Connor
Last updated: 14 Jan 2020
~ 4 MIN READ


1. Read Aloud. ... I do sometimes, but not always.
2. Cut out Caffeine. ... Not my morning coffee, No!!!
3. Listen to Podcasts and Music. ... Music is the food of love, so I do listen on - podcasts.. sometimes.
4. Avoid Drugs. ... (I) Don’t do drugs, kids.
5. Get Up Early. ... But not if I can’t..
6. Go to Bed Early. ... But not if I can’t..
7. Practice Your Hobbies. ... But not if I can’t..
8. Don't Overreact. ... I never do..
9. Don’t Avoid Any Activities. ... But not if I couldn’t help, but to..
10 Be Social! But not if I couldn’t help, not to..

Detoxing, resting up well, exercising, hydrating, are also all good aids to becoming less derealised/more Whole again.


I'm glad you're feeling more whole. The personal is the highest rung on the ladder of intelligibility below spirituality. Thus it is the fulfillment of all our mundane goals. But as such it is the level of ego anxiety. Depersonalization is a means of defending against that anxiety. When the psyche springs it on us involuntarily, it can seem strange. When it is consciously and voluntarily employed as method of coping it can temporarily be an effective strategy for dealing with stress. Used in this way it is a form of compartmentalization. The Buddha's teaching about the five skandas employs this method as a means of relief from existential suffering.
The purpose of my life would seem to be to express the truth as I discover it, but in such a manner that it is completely devoid of authority. By having no authority, by being seen by all as utterly unreliable, I express the truth and put everyone in a contradictory position where they can only save themselves by making the truth their own.
Soren Kierkegaard– Journals, 432
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Re: Wholeness

Postby felix dakat » Fri Mar 26, 2021 2:48 pm

Quote from "Phenomenology of the Human Person" by Robert Sokolowski -

"The conversational game... can be played on the things we speak about because things do present themselves as wholes and in part, as subjects with features. The ontology of things lets our speech and our language come into play."
The purpose of my life would seem to be to express the truth as I discover it, but in such a manner that it is completely devoid of authority. By having no authority, by being seen by all as utterly unreliable, I express the truth and put everyone in a contradictory position where they can only save themselves by making the truth their own.
Soren Kierkegaard– Journals, 432
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Re: Wholeness

Postby MagsJ » Mon Mar 29, 2021 12:26 pm

felix dakat wrote:I'm glad you're feeling more whole.

Oh, I don’t mind a bit of derealisation now and again.. it can be quite fun and break up the monotony of existence every-so-often.. a neural pause button, if you will. It takes One inward, to experience unique thoughts and feelings that One otherwise wouldn’t care to entertain. Being too grounded ain’t no fun, no fun.. a balance was struck, between a private inner world and an outward facing sociality.

The personal is the highest rung on the ladder of intelligibility below spirituality. Thus it is the fulfillment of all our mundane goals. But as such it is the level of ego anxiety. Depersonalization is a means of defending against that anxiety. When the psyche springs it on us involuntarily, it can seem strange. When it is consciously and voluntarily employed as method of coping it can temporarily be an effective strategy for dealing with stress. Used in this way it is a form of compartmentalization. The Buddha's teaching about the five skandas employs this method as a means of relief from existential suffering.

Sounds like detachment ^^^ ? from a reality that is difficult to cope with.. especially if there are a few things that One is simultaneously having to cope with/adjust to. Makes sense.. ensuring that stress, and cortisol, are minimised.

I suddenly came to a realisation just now, that I have to reacquaint myself with myself, in that my daily personal growth and me experiencing that growth in real-time had ceased, and so I now have to catch up with myself i.e. synchronisation.. first, my thoughts needed de-buffering, now this.

Am I a mobile phone? :-k
The possibility of anything we can imagine existing is endless and infinite.. - MagsJ
I haven't got the time to spend the time reading something that is telling me nothing, as I will never be able to get back that time, and I may need it for something at some point in time.. Huh! - MagsJ
You’re suggestions and I, just simply don’t mix.. like oil on water, or a really bad DJ - MagsJ
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Re: Wholeness

Postby felix dakat » Mon Mar 29, 2021 3:40 pm

MagsJ wrote:
felix dakat wrote:I'm glad you're feeling more whole.

Oh, I don’t mind a bit of derealisation now and again.. it can be quite fun and break up the monotony of existence every-so-often.. a neural pause button, if you will. It takes One inward, to experience unique thoughts and feelings that One otherwise wouldn’t care to entertain. Being too grounded ain’t no fun, no fun.. a balance was struck, between a private inner world and an outward facing sociality.

The personal is the highest rung on the ladder of intelligibility below spirituality. Thus it is the fulfillment of all our mundane goals. But as such it is the level of ego anxiety. Depersonalization is a means of defending against that anxiety. When the psyche springs it on us involuntarily, it can seem strange. When it is consciously and voluntarily employed as method of coping it can temporarily be an effective strategy for dealing with stress. Used in this way it is a form of compartmentalization. The Buddha's teaching about the five skandas employs this method as a means of relief from existential suffering.

Sounds like detachment ^^^ ? from a reality that is difficult to cope with.. especially if there are a few things that One is simultaneously having to cope with/adjust to. Makes sense.. ensuring that stress, and cortisol, are minimised.

I suddenly came to a realisation just now, that I have to reacquaint myself with myself, in that my daily personal growth and me experiencing that growth in real-time had ceased, and so I now have to catch up with myself i.e. synchronisation.. first, my thoughts needed de-buffering, now this.

Am I a mobile phone? :-k


...relative detachment from the ego to what is immediately presenting itself. In the past I have referred to it as decentering. Consciousness always has an object. The object of our attention speaks to us out of the background of the world. The Self is guiding our attention whether we're conscious of it or not. So we're free to focus on the small stuff that presents itself as proximal to us at the moment without worry about egoic concerns.
The purpose of my life would seem to be to express the truth as I discover it, but in such a manner that it is completely devoid of authority. By having no authority, by being seen by all as utterly unreliable, I express the truth and put everyone in a contradictory position where they can only save themselves by making the truth their own.
Soren Kierkegaard– Journals, 432
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Re: Wholeness

Postby Ierrellus » Thu Apr 29, 2021 1:04 pm

Wholeness (holiness), in the language of the brain, is homeostasis. Belief by analogy of mental content to physical reality is a field of study that has not yet arrived. Perhaps in the future we will be able to list and catalog beliefs and their physical underpinnings.
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Re: Wholeness

Postby felix dakat » Thu Apr 29, 2021 2:01 pm

Ierrellus wrote:Wholeness (holiness), in the language of the brain, is homeostasis. Belief by analogy of mental content to physical reality is a field of study that has not yet arrived. Perhaps in the future we will be able to list and catalog beliefs and their physical underpinnings.


Homeostasis, is primarily and historically a biological concept. I read that the word was coined by Walter Bradford in 1926, but that the concept of regulation of the internal environment was already described by Claude Bernard in 1849. (Wikipedia). In 1932 Joseph Barcroft was the first to say that higher brain function required the most stable internal environment. So homeostasis is not only organized by the brain but serves the brain. As such homeostasis is an exclusively biological term referring to the constancy in the internal environment in which the cells of the body live and survive.

How homeostasis is related to experience is a question. It seems like it would be limited to experimental science where physiological states can be correlated with reports of mental ones. This might include fMRI scans of the brain while the subject reports mental states in a controlled environment. In any case it is beyond the everyday possibility of our phenomenal experience except as speculation.

In Being and Time Heidegger discusses the seeming impossibility of getting our being- a- whole into our grasp ontologically and determining its character. He asks whether the entity that we are can ever become accessible and it's being a whole. There are important reasons which seem to speak against the possibility of having it presented in the manner required. The possibility of this being a whole is manifestly inconsistent with the ontological meaning of care and care is that which forms the totality of our structural whole. (page 315 of the Kindle edition) The primary item in care is the ahead- of- itself and this means that in every human being exists for the sake of itself.

So it would seem that our preoccupation with wholeness as an ideal is a case of our being ahead of ourselves. And it is one that can never actually be realized in this life though it is the goal and teleology of the archetypal self. How this relates to homeostasis is beyond the scope of our everyday unscientific phenomenological reflection.

In Jungian theory, the Self is drawing us to transcend ourselves. But we are always on the way, always moving in temporality. Life is never whole until it's over.

Which is not to say that envisioning wholeness is without value. Victor Frankel talked about projecting oneself into the the future beyond this life and imagining looking back at ourselves when we're making important decisions. Looked at from that imaginal highest vantage point, what would be the best choice?
The purpose of my life would seem to be to express the truth as I discover it, but in such a manner that it is completely devoid of authority. By having no authority, by being seen by all as utterly unreliable, I express the truth and put everyone in a contradictory position where they can only save themselves by making the truth their own.
Soren Kierkegaard– Journals, 432
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