Wholeness

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Re: Wholeness

Postby felix dakat » Sat Dec 26, 2020 6:07 am

"The impenetrable mystery of human familial and socio-political wreckage reshaped and made beautiful by the One who descends into it—while also emerging from it: Jesus, the Savior."

An example of descension and emergence-- manifest in the symbolic cosmology... theoretically entertainable in the scientific cosmology. But could you get grant money to research it?

'One of Nietzsche’s more provocative aphorisms declares, “I fear we have not freed ourselves from God, because we still believe in grammar.”

Raises the question what does grammar have to do with the structure of being?
The purpose of my life would seem to be to express the truth as I discover it, but in such a manner that it is completely devoid of authority. By having no authority, by being seen by all as utterly unreliable, I express the truth and put everyone in a contradictory position where they can only save themselves by making the truth their own.
Soren Kierkegaard– Journals, 432
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Re: Wholeness

Postby felix dakat » Sat Dec 26, 2020 4:50 pm

You may be asked: How did God bring forth being from nothingness?

Answer as follows: Being is in nothingness in the mode of nothingness and nothingness is in being in the mode of being. Nothingness is being and being is nothingness. The mode of being as it begins to emerge from nothingness into existence is called faith. For the term faith applies neither to visible comprehensible being nor to nothingness invisible and incomprehensible but rather to the nexus of nothingness and being. Being does not stem from nothingness alone but rather from being and nothingness together. All is one in the simplicity of absolute undifferentiation. Our limited mind cannot grasp or fathom this for a joins infinity.

Azriel of Gerona

This confirms my fundametal intuition about being itself. This is what Tillich called the "mystical a priori". The Kabbalists call it Ein Sof. Jung called it the Pleroma. Lao Tsu called it the Tao. Hegel called it the Absolute. It has many other names throughout the history of the perennial philosophy. Xenophanes called it the Whole.
The purpose of my life would seem to be to express the truth as I discover it, but in such a manner that it is completely devoid of authority. By having no authority, by being seen by all as utterly unreliable, I express the truth and put everyone in a contradictory position where they can only save themselves by making the truth their own.
Soren Kierkegaard– Journals, 432
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Re: Wholeness

Postby felix dakat » Sat Jan 09, 2021 7:26 pm

How telling it is that Descartes who's considered a founder of modern philosophy did not consider imagination or emotion, two features of the psyche that are necessary for wholeness, to be essential to human nature
The purpose of my life would seem to be to express the truth as I discover it, but in such a manner that it is completely devoid of authority. By having no authority, by being seen by all as utterly unreliable, I express the truth and put everyone in a contradictory position where they can only save themselves by making the truth their own.
Soren Kierkegaard– Journals, 432
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Re: Wholeness

Postby Bob » Mon Jan 11, 2021 11:11 am

felix dakat wrote:You may be asked: How did God bring forth being from nothingness?
Answer as follows: Being is in nothingness in the mode of nothingness and nothingness is in being in the mode of being. Nothingness is being and being is nothingness. The mode of being as it begins to emerge from nothingness into existence is called faith. For the term faith applies neither to visible comprehensible being nor to nothingness invisible and incomprehensible but rather to the nexus of nothingness and being. Being does not stem from nothingness alone but rather from being and nothingness together. All is one in the simplicity of absolute undifferentiation. Our limited mind cannot grasp or fathom this for a joins infinity.
Azriel of Gerona

This confirms my fundametal intuition about being itself. This is what Tillich called the "mystical a priori". The Kabbalists call it Ein Sof. Jung called it the Pleroma. Lao Tsu called it the Tao. Hegel called it the Absolute. It has many other names throughout the history of the perennial philosophy. Xenophanes called it the Whole.

I think that the Taoists have summed it up, that anything you can name isn’t the Tao, which may equate with “Being is in nothingness in the mode of nothingness and nothingness is in being in the mode of being”. The thing is that mankind has, for thousands of years, maybe more, been struggling with consciousness. For as long as mankind became aware of himself and aware that he was aware, the brutality of life meant inexplicable suffering, over and above what animals without this consciousness suffered. Some societies just ignored it and became the most brutal of history, others tried to solve the problem but became indecisive and weak in opposition to the others.

I think that this story of suffering is one of the biggest problems with regard to modern evangelical ideas of God. The hope that everything will work out in the end is what many people are left with, and in the end the only thing that helps them find comfort. Without that they would otherwise not be able to feel whole.
The only wisdom we can hope to acquire
Is the wisdom of humility: humility is endless.
TS Eliot
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Re: Wholeness

Postby Bob » Tue Jan 12, 2021 10:59 am

In the ancient world, the appearance of “hybrid monsters” was interpreted as a warning sign that the stability of ‘space’ was being threatened by the influences of ‘time.’ Thus, in the book of Genesis, the deluge was preceded by the appearance of hybrid giants called “Nephilim.” These were born from the illicit unions of “sons of gods” and “daughters of men.” Moreover, according to many traditions, these giants were engaged in crossbreeding, which ultimately contributed to the flood at the cosmic scale.

According to this cosmology, stability is obtained at the expense of completeness, through the removal of ambiguous cases. This inevitably creates “remainders” which come to symbolize the fluid medium of ‘time.’ These ambiguous cases are exiled from familiar space in order to increase its consistency and stability, and they are returned to manifestation when summoning the flood.
Pageau, Matthieu. The Language of Creation: Cosmic Symbolism in Genesis (S.119). Kindle-Version.

This is obviously a modern subject, since hybridization in various forms has been going on for some time. The removal of ambiguity as a result of achieving “completeness” or, as I would put it, wholeness, seems contra-intuitive in a society in which ambiguity has become widespread. Is not the Gender discussion extremely ambiguous?

The completeness that this cosmology attempts to achieve is from the bottom up, just like the build of cellular bodies like ourselves in which every part is, ideally, serving the whole. However, social life has a certain ambiguity, which is often translated as a kind of thrill. It is by making life less certain that people gain a motivation for living. Of course, what it is that they keep ambiguous differs on various levels, but it is the risk of instability that provides that extra excitement.

Is not our own wholeness threatened by the risk of instability in various areas of society? Is the answer a rigid stability that rules out ambiguity?
The only wisdom we can hope to acquire
Is the wisdom of humility: humility is endless.
TS Eliot
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Re: Wholeness

Postby felix dakat » Wed Jan 13, 2021 9:52 pm

Bob wrote:
In the ancient world, the appearance of “hybrid monsters” was interpreted as a warning sign that the stability of ‘space’ was being threatened by the influences of ‘time.’ Thus, in the book of Genesis, the deluge was preceded by the appearance of hybrid giants called “Nephilim.” These were born from the illicit unions of “sons of gods” and “daughters of men.” Moreover, according to many traditions, these giants were engaged in crossbreeding, which ultimately contributed to the flood at the cosmic scale.

According to this cosmology, stability is obtained at the expense of completeness, through the removal of ambiguous cases. This inevitably creates “remainders” which come to symbolize the fluid medium of ‘time.’ These ambiguous cases are exiled from familiar space in order to increase its consistency and stability, and they are returned to manifestation when summoning the flood.
Pageau, Matthieu. The Language of Creation: Cosmic Symbolism in Genesis (S.119). Kindle-Version.

This is obviously a modern subject, since hybridization in various forms has been going on for some time. The removal of ambiguity as a result of achieving “completeness” or, as I would put it, wholeness, seems contra-intuitive in a society in which ambiguity has become widespread. Is not the Gender discussion extremely ambiguous?

The completeness that this cosmology attempts to achieve is from the bottom up, just like the build of cellular bodies like ourselves in which every part is, ideally, serving the whole. However, social life has a certain ambiguity, which is often translated as a kind of thrill. It is by making life less certain that people gain a motivation for living. Of course, what it is that they keep ambiguous differs on various levels, but it is the risk of instability that provides that extra excitement.

Is not our own wholeness threatened by the risk of instability in various areas of society? Is the answer a rigid stability that rules out ambiguity?


This isn't new. I'm a Sagittarius whose symbol is the centaur half man and half horse -- a hybrid monster. Saint Christopher who carried the Christ child across the river has the head of a dog. The cherubim that surround the throne of God have two pairs of wings and four faces that of an ox, a lion, a human and an eagle. Stay in the center and everything falls into place.
The purpose of my life would seem to be to express the truth as I discover it, but in such a manner that it is completely devoid of authority. By having no authority, by being seen by all as utterly unreliable, I express the truth and put everyone in a contradictory position where they can only save themselves by making the truth their own.
Soren Kierkegaard– Journals, 432
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Re: Wholeness

Postby felix dakat » Wed Jan 13, 2021 10:07 pm

Bob wrote:
felix dakat wrote:You may be asked: How did God bring forth being from nothingness?
Answer as follows: Being is in nothingness in the mode of nothingness and nothingness is in being in the mode of being. Nothingness is being and being is nothingness. The mode of being as it begins to emerge from nothingness into existence is called faith. For the term faith applies neither to visible comprehensible being nor to nothingness invisible and incomprehensible but rather to the nexus of nothingness and being. Being does not stem from nothingness alone but rather from being and nothingness together. All is one in the simplicity of absolute undifferentiation. Our limited mind cannot grasp or fathom this for a joins infinity.
Azriel of Gerona

This confirms my fundametal intuition about being itself. This is what Tillich called the "mystical a priori". The Kabbalists call it Ein Sof. Jung called it the Pleroma. Lao Tsu called it the Tao. Hegel called it the Absolute. It has many other names throughout the history of the perennial philosophy. Xenophanes called it the Whole.

I think that the Taoists have summed it up, that anything you can name isn’t the Tao, which may equate with “Being is in nothingness in the mode of nothingness and nothingness is in being in the mode of being”. The thing is that mankind has, for thousands of years, maybe more, been struggling with consciousness. For as long as mankind became aware of himself and aware that he was aware, the brutality of life meant inexplicable suffering, over and above what animals without this consciousness suffered. Some societies just ignored it and became the most brutal of history, others tried to solve the problem but became indecisive and weak in opposition to the others.

I think that this story of suffering is one of the biggest problems with regard to modern evangelical ideas of God. The hope that everything will work out in the end is what many people are left with, and in the end the only thing that helps them find comfort. Without that they would otherwise not be able to feel whole.


Suffering propels all life forward. We wouldn't do anything if we didn't suppose that it would make better the unbearable present. Eschatology extends that principle to the macrocosm.
The purpose of my life would seem to be to express the truth as I discover it, but in such a manner that it is completely devoid of authority. By having no authority, by being seen by all as utterly unreliable, I express the truth and put everyone in a contradictory position where they can only save themselves by making the truth their own.
Soren Kierkegaard– Journals, 432
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Re: Wholeness

Postby Bob » Sat Jan 16, 2021 10:57 am

felix dakat wrote:Suffering propels all life forward. We wouldn't do anything if we didn't suppose that it would make better the unbearable present. Eschatology extends that principle to the macrocosm.

Yes, I suppose you are right. It sometimes moves people to compassion. It's just strange how people tend to jump on people who have shown themselves to have some weakness, rather than move them to compassion though. Í find that compassion is really the universal mover in our world. Where it appears we make a move forward. It just seems to require suffering to inspire compassion.
The only wisdom we can hope to acquire
Is the wisdom of humility: humility is endless.
TS Eliot
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Re: Wholeness

Postby Dan~ » Sat Jan 16, 2021 12:18 pm

Pain is ok. But when there is too much, it overloads and screws over the psyche.

Truth is what propels life into a good, realistic future.

Without truth, everything is rendered powerless.
Truth is a form of power, too.

Without truth, you could not come to a conclusion or even make a reply to my post.
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Re: Wholeness

Postby felix dakat » Sat Jan 16, 2021 8:15 pm

Bob wrote:
felix dakat wrote:Suffering propels all life forward. We wouldn't do anything if we didn't suppose that it would make better the unbearable present. Eschatology extends that principle to the macrocosm.

Yes, I suppose you are right. It sometimes moves people to compassion. It's just strange how people tend to jump on people who have shown themselves to have some weakness, rather than move them to compassion though. Í find that compassion is really the universal mover in our world. Where it appears we make a move forward. It just seems to require suffering to inspire compassion.



I used to joke that I had a life simplification plan. And the plan went like this: when you think of doing something... don't! Of course if you follow that plan for long you'll die. So what shall you do? Until you are able to love and take care of yourself you can't be much help to others. I learned this from Thich Nhat Hanh. Jordan Peterson teaches the same thing when he says treat yourself like someone you are responsible for helping.
The purpose of my life would seem to be to express the truth as I discover it, but in such a manner that it is completely devoid of authority. By having no authority, by being seen by all as utterly unreliable, I express the truth and put everyone in a contradictory position where they can only save themselves by making the truth their own.
Soren Kierkegaard– Journals, 432
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Re: Wholeness

Postby felix dakat » Sat Jan 16, 2021 8:18 pm

Dan~ wrote:Pain is ok. But when there is too much, it overloads and screws over the psyche.

Truth is what propels life into a good, realistic future.

Without truth, everything is rendered powerless.
Truth is a form of power, too.

Without truth, you could not come to a conclusion or even make a reply to my post.


Goodness, Beauty and Truth are the three of the highest values of Western Civilization. A trinity. Jesus added a fourth --Love--making a quaternity--a symbol of wholeness.
The purpose of my life would seem to be to express the truth as I discover it, but in such a manner that it is completely devoid of authority. By having no authority, by being seen by all as utterly unreliable, I express the truth and put everyone in a contradictory position where they can only save themselves by making the truth their own.
Soren Kierkegaard– Journals, 432
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