People want to be their own gods. Is that good or evil?

[Greatest I am]

We have had temples and nature worship for at least 57,000 years. That is how old the oldest serpent temples are.

What part of the world was that? and why serpent worship? were these poisonous ones by any chance..? to kill thine enemy with a snake bite or toss them into a pit full of snakes and so into an agonising death..

I can see why we would want to invent gods, as the epitome of being the fittest humans, but to invent gods and then let them rule over us is stupid.

We are to rule over them and not them over us.

Regards
DL

..or coexist in a harmonious union? One dominating over the other, has proved not to lead to the furtherment of humankind, but hinder it by the struggle of power and wills.

I goofed on the timing. It is not 57,000 years. It is 70,000. It does not matter much but accuracy is good.

Is a python poisonous?

https://www.apollon.uio.no/english/arti ... glish.html

Even if it is, you might remember that physicians use the snake as a part of their symbol and the bible shows that when the serpent bites, he give life and not death.

I think the serpent is revered world wide due to it sheading it's skin and being reborn the way many want to be in heaven after their death.

To your last.

Cooperation is good, but if we do not compete for the best and fittest who have the best ideas, we will go extinct.

We are a hierarchical species and must have leadership. It is in our nature to want to be the fittest or to follow the fittest.

Regards
DL

[MagsJ]

...or coexist in a harmonious union? One dominating over the other, has proved not to lead to the furtherment of humankind, but hinder it by the struggle of power and wills.

Unless man's relationship with God is a "Duck Amuck" situation, with man being Daffy Duck and God Bugs Bunny.

Not all humans are fools, and not all gods would be wise but simply well-equipped tech wise.

[phenomenal_graffiti]

That ultimately depends on the actual state and content of the external world.

[Greatest I am]

That ultimately depends on the actual state and content of the external world.

Morality wise, we have never changed.

We have improved on our understanding of some things but are still the same as when we left the trees and caves.

Regards
DL

[phenomenal_graffiti]

I read somewhere that human nature exists unchanged from the beginning of man.

[Greatest I am]

I read somewhere that human nature exists unchanged from the beginning of man.

Our DNA has and it is what hold our natures and instincts, so I would call that finding speculative.

It is a reasonable assumption but I don't see how it could ever be proven.

Remember that we began as a shrew with a tiny brain. To think that a large brained animal would think and have the same instincts and nature as a shrew is quite the stretch. shrew, for instance, would always fear fire while a larger brain would learn to harness it. Shrews are also solitary while we are now tribal.

The more I think of unchanged nature, the closer I get to rejecting it. Best to say IDK.

Regards
DL

[phenomenal_graffiti]

If I believed in evolution, I'd probably agree.

[MagsJ]

I goofed on the timing. It is not 57,000 years. It is 70,000. It does not matter much but accuracy is good.

Is a python poisonous?

https://www.apollon.uio.no/english/arti ... glish.html

Even if it is, you might remember that physicians use the snake as a part of their symbol and the bible shows that when the serpent bites, he give life and not death.

I think the serpent is revered world wide due to it sheading it's skin and being reborn the way many want to be in heaven after their death.

I’m not a fan of that particular beast.. I never trust snakes, of the human or reptilian kind.

Funny how in Catholicism the serpent is portrayed as evil, so maybe indicating that the old ways are not always the best ways for current times.

To your last.

Cooperation is good, but if we do not compete for the best and fittest who have the best ideas, we will go extinct.

We are a hierarchical species and must have leadership. It is in our nature to want to be the fittest or to follow the fittest.

Regards
DL

Well.. to follow the most capable and knowledgeable, but are such types also the fittest? I’ve met quite a few ‘leaders’ and was not at all impressed, but that’s the non-filtering mechanism of nepotism for you.

[Greatest I am]

If I believed in evolution, I'd probably agree.

Science denial is not my position and both religions and science now have God's of the Gaps.

Science has a hell of a better track record of being right on things and using the reason and logic that you bible tells you to use.

Science has proven some of religions views, like us all being born sinners, do evil in secular terms, but to believe that there are real talking serpents and donkeys is to not use reason or logic at all.

If you think god gave you a brain and a moral sense, don't waste it on a genocidal satanic god.

Regards
DL

[Greatest I am]

I goofed on the timing. It is not 57,000 years. It is 70,000. It does not matter much but accuracy is good.

Is a python poisonous?

https://www.apollon.uio.no/english/arti ... glish.html

Even if it is, you might remember that physicians use the snake as a part of their symbol and the bible shows that when the serpent bites, he give life and not death.

I think the serpent is revered world wide due to it sheading it's skin and being reborn the way many want to be in heaven after their death.

I’m not a fan of that particular beast.. I never trust snakes, of the human or reptilian kind.

Funny how in Catholicism the serpent is portrayed as evil, so maybe indicating that the old ways are not always the best ways for current times.

To your last.

Cooperation is good, but if we do not compete for the best and fittest who have the best ideas, we will go extinct.

We are a hierarchical species and must have leadership. It is in our nature to want to be the fittest or to follow the fittest.

Regards
DL

Well.. to follow the most capable and knowledgeable, but are such types also the fittest? I’ve met quite a few ‘leaders’ and was not at all impressed, but that’s the non-filtering mechanism of nepotism for you.

Good insight again, except you are a touch shy on the serpent.

And the Lord said unto Moses, Make thee a fiery serpent, and set it upon a pole: and it shall come to pass, that every one that is bitten, when he looketh upon it, shall live.
Numbers 21:8

Matthew 10:16 Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves: be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves.

Genesis 3 ;3 Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the Lord God had made.

Regards
DL

[MagsJ]

Good insight again, except you are a touch shy on the serpent.

And the Lord said unto Moses, Make thee a fiery serpent, and set it upon a pole: and it shall come to pass, that every one that is bitten, when he looketh upon it, shall live.
Numbers 21:8

..so pretty much putting one’s faith in the Lord, in that they will not die? Cle-ver..

Matthew 10:16 Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves: be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves.

Genesis 3 ;3 Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the Lord God had made.

Regards
DL

They are still a beast that I can never be fond of, but I guess humans utilised whatever tools and concepts helped them progress and keep going, in ancient adverse times of tribal warfare and daily uncertainty.

I guess that’s how we started out.. as our own individual god, as only we know ourselves and our needs best, and how could that ever be seen as an evil thing.. unless it is (a man)made (concept) to be so, and the coercion through religion, began.

[Greatest I am]

Good insight again, except you are a touch shy on the serpent.

And the Lord said unto Moses, Make thee a fiery serpent, and set it upon a pole: and it shall come to pass, that every one that is bitten, when he looketh upon it, shall live.
Numbers 21:8

..so pretty much putting one’s faith in the Lord, in that they will not die? Cle-ver..

Matthew 10:16 Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves: be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves.

Genesis 3 ;3 Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the Lord God had made.

Regards
DL

They are still a beast that I can never be fond of, but I guess humans utilised whatever tools and concepts helped them progress and keep going, in ancient adverse times of tribal warfare and daily uncertainty.

I guess that’s how we started out.. as our own individual god, as only we know ourselves and our needs best, and how could that ever be seen as an evil thing.. unless it is (a man)made (concept) to be so, and the coercion through religion, began.

I disagree on how we started.

I think we first saw god in nature, the serpents and other animals, then had goddesses for 20,000 years at least, then the male war gods were invented and we have had 5,000 years of war to think men for.

We naturally think that there is something else we are not noticing. I have forgotten the term, but it is universal.

Coercion is normal in any tribe, especially the fascist religious tribes like our mainstream religions.

Regards
DL

[MagsJ]

I disagree on how we started.

I think we first saw god in nature, the serpents and other animals, then had goddesses for 20,000 years at least, then the male war gods were invented and we have had 5,000 years of war to think men for.

We naturally think that there is something else we are not noticing. I have forgotten the term, but it is universal.

I’ve been hearing of a so-called collective human-amnesia.. is that what you are referring to? in that every time we try to focus-in-on and think of our innate knowledge, it evades us.

Yes, you are right.. we were ruled by Nature first and foremost, then other Idols, as our sentience developed and sharpened over time.

Coercion is normal in any tribe, especially the fascist religious tribes like our mainstream religions.

Regards
DL

Depends what brand of coercion it is.. I’m not a fan in being coerced, unless I’m privy to the intended outcome, so as to make a valued judgment on my part in any given situation.

[Greatest I am]

I disagree on how we started.

I think we first saw god in nature, the serpents and other animals, then had goddesses for 20,000 years at least, then the male war gods were invented and we have had 5,000 years of war to think men for.

We naturally think that there is something else we are not noticing. I have forgotten the term, but it is universal.

I’ve been hearing of a so-called collective human-amnesia.. is that what you are referring to? in that every time we try to focus-in-on and think of our innate knowledge, it evades us.

Yes, you are right.. we were ruled by Nature first and foremost, then other Idols, as our sentience developed and sharpened over time.

Coercion is normal in any tribe, especially the fascist religious tribes like our mainstream religions.

Regards
DL

Depends what brand of coercion it is.. I’m not a fan in being coerced, unless I’m privy to the intended outcome, so as to make a valued judgment on my part in any given situation.

Sharpened?

You mean deteriorated over time for the profit of the liars and con men.

If you have read of the older and wiser religions, you will see that they were more pure before the modern literalist era.

Scholars have been urging us to return to the smarter ancient thinking of god as an abstract and not as an entity.

As to coercion. Every law tells us to discriminate negatively against sub groups in our societies. Those sub groups could be murderers or thieves.

In Canada, if I do not let myself be coerced into discriminating against those sub groups, for instance, I am liable to be seen as an accomplice to the crime.

Regards
DL

[Fixed Cross]

One must find ones ancestral Gods.
Or it is very heartily recommended that one does.

MagsJ, it was good to hear of your spiritual heritage in the other thread.

[Greatest I am]

O

ne must find ones ancestral Gods.

That is not required for a good life, but as a Gnostic Christian, I agree.

Or it is very heartily recommended that one does.

Indeed. We use Jesus as a mantra so as to know ourselves in the deepest possible way.

Here is the real way to salvation that Jesus taught.

Matthew 6:22 The light of the body is the eye: if therefore thine eye be single, thy whole body shall be full of light.

John 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

Romans 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

Allan Watts explain those quotes in detail.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=alRNbes ... r_embedded

Regards
DL

[Fixed Cross]

I generally like Christians, especially American ones.
I am not cut out to be one though - though I do believe in the holiness of Mary.

To me she is higher, holier, than Jesus.

This is the same belief of the Troubadours and the popes of Avignon.

[Greatest I am]

I generally like Christians, especially American ones.
I am not cut out to be one though - though I do believe in the holiness of Mary.

To me she is higher, holier, than Jesus.

This is the same belief of the Troubadours and the popes of Avignon.

Speaking of the more right wing Christians. You like homophobic and misogynous people who think a genocidal god is somehow a good god.

Tell us why please.

Regards
DL

[Fixed Cross]

You are a very hateful person for a Christian.


I don't think you are truly religious.

[Greatest I am]

You are a very hateful person for a Christian.


I don't think you are truly religious.

Typical brain dead apologetics. Thanks for showing your true colors.

I am not a Christian. I would not lower my standard of excellence.

I am a Gnostic Christian whose founders were decimated by the inquisitions of the religion you like.

You might be religious, but you hold satanic moral.

If you were not amoral coward, you would have answered my question. Hypocrite.

Regards
DL

[MagsJ]

-
“Yes, you are right.. we were ruled by Nature first and foremost, then other Idols, as our sentience developed and sharpened over time.“

Sharpened?

You mean deteriorated over time for the profit of the liars and con men.

If you have read of the older and wiser religions, you will see that they were more pure before the modern literalist era.

Scholars have been urging us to return to the smarter ancient thinking of god as an abstract and not as an entity.

Pre-historically.. praying to our god(s), was indeed previously praying to nature and our kin / our direct ancestors, in marking such events as the end of Winter solstice and the start of a new harvest year etc.. and would make the most perfect sense, in ensuring community cohesion and an abundant harvest of crops and supply of food for that Clan.

So, yes.. there is a line to be drawn between nature/kin worship and that of the worship of fake or foreign idols, that serve no-one but the other, whom grow rich and fat off the worship of others.. I don’t agree with enforced religious conversion, and yet it’s been a thing for centuries.

My Anglo ancestors married into French-Norman Catholicism.. from paganism, and my current Indian kin and prior uphold the Dharma of laws and customs.. so observations rather than worship.


“Depends what brand of coercion it is.. I’m not a fan in being coerced, unless I’m privy to the intended outcome, so as to make a valued judgment on my part in any given situation.”

As to coercion. Every law tells us to discriminate negatively against sub groups in our societies. Those sub groups could be murderers or thieves.

In Canada, if I do not let myself be coerced into discriminating against those sub groups, for instance, I am liable to be seen as an accomplice to the crime.

Also.. not involving ourselves with other sub-groups, inhibits being deemed complicit to any crime the other May commit.. I don’t see that as coercion, but self-interest. I see coercion as persuasion from others, of the sub-groups.

[MagsJ]

One must find ones ancestral Gods.
Or it is very heartily recommended that one does.

MagsJ, it was good to hear of your spiritual heritage in the other thread.

Merci.. he was a living breathing ancestor, now worshipped as god.. because he worshipped the sun and the stars, to ensure that harvests were always bountiful, and his people.. well taken-care of.

[Greatest I am]

-
“Yes, you are right.. we were ruled by Nature first and foremost, then other Idols, as our sentience developed and sharpened over time.“

Sharpened?

You mean deteriorated over time for the profit of the liars and con men.

If you have read of the older and wiser religions, you will see that they were more pure before the modern literalist era.

Scholars have been urging us to return to the smarter ancient thinking of god as an abstract and not as an entity.

Pre-historically.. praying to our god(s), was indeed previously praying to nature and our kin / our direct ancestors, in marking such events as the end of Winter solstice and the start of a new harvest year etc.. and would make the most perfect sense, in ensuring community cohesion and an abundant harvest of crops and supply of food for that Clan.

So, yes.. there is a line to be drawn between nature/kin worship and that of the worship of fake or foreign idols, that serve no-one but the other, whom grow rich and fat off the worship of others.. I don’t agree with enforced religious conversion, and yet it’s been a thing for centuries.

My Anglo ancestors married into French-Norman Catholicism.. from paganism, and my current Indian kin and prior uphold the Dharma of laws and customs.. so observations rather than worship.


“Depends what brand of coercion it is.. I’m not a fan in being coerced, unless I’m privy to the intended outcome, so as to make a valued judgment on my part in any given situation.”

As to coercion. Every law tells us to discriminate negatively against sub groups in our societies. Those sub groups could be murderers or thieves.

In Canada, if I do not let myself be coerced into discriminating against those sub groups, for instance, I am liable to be seen as an accomplice to the crime.

Also.. not involving ourselves with other sub-groups, inhibits being deemed complicit to any crime the other May commit.. I don’t see that as coercion, but self-interest. I see coercion as persuasion from others, of the sub-groups.

I am not sure what you are saying with your last.

What type of involvement with murderer sub-groups of thieve sub groups are you thinking of/

We do not usually know who is in that sub-group until after they kill or rob.

I can see your words working after the crime, no0t before.

Regards
DL

[MagsJ]

Also.. not involving ourselves with other sub-groups, inhibits being deemed complicit to any crime the other May commit.. I don’t see that as coercion, but self-interest. I see coercion as persuasion from others, of the sub-groups.

I am not sure what you are saying with your last.

What type of involvement with murderer sub-groups of thieve sub groups are you thinking of/

We do not usually know who is in that sub-group until after they kill or rob.

I can see your words working after the crime, no0t before.

They can work.. with foresight and forward-thinking.. I think it’s called ‘knowing better’ lol, and so being our own god should ideally entail that. There’s many a time, when such instincts have prohibited me from coming to harm/other’s stupidity, or getting involved with crims and sinners.. so before any fact can become a reality and then subsequently a negative.

We have to be our own god, because.. down here, god is unavailable.. he can’t come to the phone right now, so all we have is ourselves.. and how could that ever be a bad thing? in looking out for the Self, so not an evil thing at all.

[Berkley Babes]

I think it's good because it hints we have something in common with a source.