Do logic and reason say that God is our servant?

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Do logic and reason say that God is our servant?

Postby Greatest I am » Tue Jul 30, 2019 2:37 am

Do logic and reason say that God is our servant?

https://biblehub.com/matthew/20-28.htm
Even as the Son of man came not to be served, but to serve,

At the end of the day, there is no physical or real supernatural God for us to follow. If there were, then logic and reason say that if such a God wanted to be relevant to man, he would show up.

All there can be are rules and laws that we think a God would give. Men have written up many such sets of rules while lying about being inspired by God. That is basically the moral of the Moses story with his coming off the mountain, not with a God, but with rules and laws.

Man is not slaved to his laws and rules and changes them as better ones are found. We, in effect, are evolving God, defined as rules and laws, and making him better.

All people accept this except for those in religions who idol worship the older barbaric Gods, whose laws are inferior to secular law. That would include the Christian and Muslim demiurges.

Faith closes the mind. It is pure idol worship. Faith is a way to quit using your, "God given" power of Reason and Logic, and cause the faithful to embrace doctrines that moral people reject.

The God of the OT says, “Come now, and let us reason together,” [Isaiah 1:18]

How can literalists reason on God when they must ignore reason and logic and discard them when turning into literalist?

Those who are literalists can only reply somewhat in the fashion that Martin Luther did.
“Faith must trample under foot all reason, sense, and understanding.”
“Reason is a whore, the greatest enemy that faith has.”

This attitude effectively kills all worthy communication that non-theists can have with theist. Faith closes their mind as it is pure idol worship.

Literalism is an evil practice that hides the true messages of myths. We cannot show our faith based friends that they are wrong through their faith colored glasses. Their faith also plugs their ears.

Do you serve God and the laws and rules of life, or do you expect the laws, rules of life and God to serve you?

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Re: Do logic and reason say that God is our servant?

Postby Kriswest » Sun Dec 22, 2019 8:27 pm

“Do you serve God and the laws and rules of life, or do you expect the laws, rules of life and God to serve you?”
I actually think the religious see it as both since religion is about owning/leading the herd and serving the herd for the herd’s best interests.
I will be bitchy, cranky, sweet, happy, kind, pain in the ass all at random times from now on. I am embracing my mentalpause until further notice. Viva lack of total control!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! This is not a test,,, this is my life right now. Have a good day and please buckle up for safety reasons,, All those in high chairs, go in the back of the room.
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Re: Do logic and reason say that God is our servant?

Postby Greatest I am » Tue Dec 24, 2019 2:14 am

Kriswest wrote:“Do you serve God and the laws and rules of life, or do you expect the laws, rules of life and God to serve you?”
I actually think the religious see it as both since religion is about owning/leading the herd and serving the herd for the herd’s best interests.


One cannot both lead and follow.

I chose the laws I will either follow or break.

Do you?

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Re: Do logic and reason say that God is our servant?

Postby Kriswest » Wed Dec 25, 2019 6:24 pm

I must disagree. A true leader follows as well.
A leader must follow the needs and wants of the followers. They must follow the ethics and beliefs of the followers. Above all a true good leader follows behind at times to ensure the wellbeing of the whole.
Only a dictator or similar leads by pushing, prodding, threatening etc.

I follow the laws of state and country. If I could not then I would leave or fight to change the laws.
I will be bitchy, cranky, sweet, happy, kind, pain in the ass all at random times from now on. I am embracing my mentalpause until further notice. Viva lack of total control!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! This is not a test,,, this is my life right now. Have a good day and please buckle up for safety reasons,, All those in high chairs, go in the back of the room.
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Re: Do logic and reason say that God is our servant?

Postby Ierrellus » Thu Dec 26, 2019 2:36 pm

Reason seems to imply that God still does reveal himself, herself, itself through creative evolution.
Hi Kriss!
"We must love one another or die." W.H.Auden
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Re: Do logic and reason say that God is our servant?

Postby Kriswest » Sun Dec 29, 2019 12:36 am

Ierrellus wrote:Reason seems to imply that God still does reveal himself, herself, itself through creative evolution.
Hi Kriss!

Hi Ierr!!
Question: How or what do you see God as? I do not disrespect religion or beliefs of a god , I just question and show my perspective.
I will be bitchy, cranky, sweet, happy, kind, pain in the ass all at random times from now on. I am embracing my mentalpause until further notice. Viva lack of total control!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! This is not a test,,, this is my life right now. Have a good day and please buckle up for safety reasons,, All those in high chairs, go in the back of the room.
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Re: Do logic and reason say that God is our servant?

Postby Ierrellus » Sun Dec 29, 2019 2:13 pm

Kriswest wrote:
Ierrellus wrote:Reason seems to imply that God still does reveal himself, herself, itself through creative evolution.
Hi Kriss!

Hi Ierr!!
Question: How or what do you see God as? I do not disrespect religion or beliefs of a god , I just question and show my perspective.

Written at age 19--
".. .incarnate in the sod,
I am a part of you and both a part of God."
Still panentheistic after alll these years.
Great to hear from you!
"We must love one another or die." W.H.Auden
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Re: Do logic and reason say that God is our servant?

Postby Greatest I am » Mon Jan 06, 2020 7:10 pm

Kriswest wrote:I must disagree. A true leader follows as well.
A leader must follow the needs and wants of the followers. They must follow the ethics and beliefs of the followers. Above all a true good leader follows behind at times to ensure the wellbeing of the whole.
Only a dictator or similar leads by pushing, prodding, threatening etc.

I follow the laws of state and country. If I could not then I would leave or fight to change the laws.


What law have you gone against?
This assumes that you did not always agree with all the laws you follow.

Do you see Jesus as a leader,and do you see him not being true to his thinking and going along with his wrong headed disciples to where Jesus would not lead?

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Re: Do logic and reason say that God is our servant?

Postby Greatest I am » Mon Jan 06, 2020 7:12 pm

Ierrellus wrote:Reason seems to imply that God still does reveal himself, herself, itself through creative evolution.
Hi Kriss!


So your god is evolution and science?

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Re: Do logic and reason say that God is our servant?

Postby Greatest I am » Mon Jan 06, 2020 7:15 pm

Ierrellus wrote:
Kriswest wrote:
Ierrellus wrote:Reason seems to imply that God still does reveal himself, herself, itself through creative evolution.
Hi Kriss!

Hi Ierr!!
Question: How or what do you see God as? I do not disrespect religion or beliefs of a god , I just question and show my perspective.

Written at age 19--
".. .incarnate in the sod,
I am a part of you and both a part of God."
Still panentheistic after alll these years.
Great to hear from you!


Strange use of language.

What part of her are you?

I have no issues with we are all one thinking, but not to the point of loosing individuality.

We era all in this together, alone.

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Re: Do logic and reason say that God is our servant?

Postby Kriswest » Mon Jan 06, 2020 8:32 pm

Do you understand that the mind uses an electrical energy? Have you ever heard that energy does not stop it changes?
I will be bitchy, cranky, sweet, happy, kind, pain in the ass all at random times from now on. I am embracing my mentalpause until further notice. Viva lack of total control!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! This is not a test,,, this is my life right now. Have a good day and please buckle up for safety reasons,, All those in high chairs, go in the back of the room.
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Re: Do logic and reason say that God is our servant?

Postby Greatest I am » Mon Jan 06, 2020 8:49 pm

Kriswest wrote:Do you understand that the mind uses an electrical energy? Have you ever heard that energy does not stop it changes?


Yes.
In that sense, we never really die. We just change.
We cannot know if we retain our consciousness.

Do you understand that you are not me?

What part of our friend are you if you wish to maintain your foolish view?

Note that you cannot know so we may as well end this now.

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Re: Do logic and reason say that God is our servant?

Postby Arcturus Descending » Tue Jan 07, 2020 8:27 pm

Kriswest wrote:
Ierrellus wrote:Reason seems to imply that God still does reveal himself, herself, itself through creative evolution.
Hi Kriss!

Hi Ierr!!
Question: How or what do you see God as? I do not disrespect religion or beliefs of a god , I just question and show my perspective.


Hi Kris,

Welcome back. Good to read you.

I really do not see God but if I had to say that I do, it would have to be in any and every awesome thing which wants to draw me to my knees. I do not go there anymore.

I hope that you are well.
"Look closely. The beautiful may be small."


"Two things fill the mind with ever new and increasing admiration and awe, the oftener and more steadily we reflect on them: the starry heavens above me and the moral law within me."


“Whereas the beautiful is limited, the sublime is limitless, so that the mind in the presence of the sublime, attempting to imagine what it cannot, has pain in the failure but pleasure in contemplating the immensity of the attempt.”

Immanuel Kant
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Re: Do logic and reason say that God is our servant?

Postby Arcturus Descending » Tue Jan 07, 2020 8:41 pm

Greatest I Am,


Do logic and reason say that God is our servant?


How would you even come up with such a question? Is it because you see how people think that ?God? should be "there" for them in every moment at their beck and call to answer each and every prayer?

Is that logic and reason or is it fear and discomfort?

How could any - whatever you choose to call it - I have no idea what to call it - unnameable, who willed all of this into existence, if that even be the case, be seen as a servant?
"Look closely. The beautiful may be small."


"Two things fill the mind with ever new and increasing admiration and awe, the oftener and more steadily we reflect on them: the starry heavens above me and the moral law within me."


“Whereas the beautiful is limited, the sublime is limitless, so that the mind in the presence of the sublime, attempting to imagine what it cannot, has pain in the failure but pleasure in contemplating the immensity of the attempt.”

Immanuel Kant
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Re: Do logic and reason say that God is our servant?

Postby Tab » Tue Jan 07, 2020 9:00 pm

Religion is the servant of our masters, God the stick and the carrot.

Sorry, I'm in one-liner mode.
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Re: Do logic and reason say that God is our servant?

Postby Arcturus Descending » Tue Jan 07, 2020 9:04 pm

Tab wrote:Religion is the servant of our masters, God the stick and the carrot.


It would appear that this is the year for all to return to the roost.

Who in the world dug you up, Tab? lol Good to see you. I hope that life is treating you well. Good to see that you do not seem to have changed much - but then again, you would have had to after all of this time...perhaps.
"Look closely. The beautiful may be small."


"Two things fill the mind with ever new and increasing admiration and awe, the oftener and more steadily we reflect on them: the starry heavens above me and the moral law within me."


“Whereas the beautiful is limited, the sublime is limitless, so that the mind in the presence of the sublime, attempting to imagine what it cannot, has pain in the failure but pleasure in contemplating the immensity of the attempt.”

Immanuel Kant
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Re: Do logic and reason say that God is our servant?

Postby Tab » Tue Jan 07, 2020 10:20 pm

Hey Arc, my kid got interested in the Dao, and that stirred up my philosophy brain. Thought I'd see how ILP was fairing after all the years. I'm pretty good, nice to see you still around too.

Change, me..? Wasn't I perfect lol. :D I dunno, I got older I guess, and the things I thunk are probably the things I still think, might be better at getting them across now, but then there's the question of patience to do so. We'll see if anything tickles my fancy.
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Re: Do logic and reason say that God is our servant?

Postby Kriswest » Tue Jan 07, 2020 10:44 pm

Greatest I am wrote:
Kriswest wrote:Do you understand that the mind uses an electrical energy? Have you ever heard that energy does not stop it changes?


Yes.
In that sense, we never really die. We just change.
We cannot know if we retain our consciousness.

Do you understand that you are not me?

What part of our friend are you if you wish to maintain your foolish view?

Note that you cannot know so we may as well end this now.

Regards
DL

I think you take it that phrase to extreme and so deny all. Limited energy on this planet makes all a part of someone or some life. All animals and to some minor very minor extent plants , use energy/ electrical energy and other. All life is a composite of past energy life. You do habits or things that others have done before you. Not language but, quirks or unintentional behavior. The energy that is released with death absorbs into the earth and life. While I cannot at this time think of the technical words, there is some proof of energy moving to another living entity and affecting the information on a biological level. The energy in biology is transferable. If I can call you on a cell phone without wires to either of our phones, what do you think actually affects ?
I will be bitchy, cranky, sweet, happy, kind, pain in the ass all at random times from now on. I am embracing my mentalpause until further notice. Viva lack of total control!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! This is not a test,,, this is my life right now. Have a good day and please buckle up for safety reasons,, All those in high chairs, go in the back of the room.
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Re: Do logic and reason say that God is our servant?

Postby Greatest I am » Wed Jan 08, 2020 1:32 am

Arcturus Descending wrote:Greatest I Am,


Do logic and reason say that God is our servant?


How would you even come up with such a question? Is it because you see how people think that ?God? should be "there" for them in every moment at their beck and call to answer each and every prayer?

Is that logic and reason or is it fear and discomfort?

How could any - whatever you choose to call it - I have no idea what to call it - unnameable, who willed all of this into existence, if that even be the case, be seen as a servant?


I chat mostly with Christians who say they wish to serve Jesus, while he himself said he came to serve and not be served.

I want Christians to compare that to the ass kissing and serving they want to do to a god who does not want it.

If you were a god, which would you do?

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Re: Do logic and reason say that God is our servant?

Postby Greatest I am » Wed Jan 08, 2020 1:35 am

Tab wrote:Religion is the servant of our masters, God the stick and the carrot.

Sorry, I'm in one-liner mode.


You seem to know of the Noble Lie that governments have propagated for so long. That religions are worthy of us.

Proof of course of that truth is in the inquisitions and jihads governments use.

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Re: Do logic and reason say that God is our servant?

Postby Greatest I am » Wed Jan 08, 2020 1:42 am

Kriswest wrote:
Greatest I am wrote:
Kriswest wrote:Do you understand that the mind uses an electrical energy? Have you ever heard that energy does not stop it changes?


Yes.
In that sense, we never really die. We just change.
We cannot know if we retain our consciousness.

Do you understand that you are not me?

What part of our friend are you if you wish to maintain your foolish view?

Note that you cannot know so we may as well end this now.

Regards
DL

I think you take it that phrase to extreme and so deny all. Limited energy on this planet makes all a part of someone or some life. All animals and to some minor very minor extent plants , use energy/ electrical energy and other. All life is a composite of past energy life. You do habits or things that others have done before you. Not language but, quirks or unintentional behavior. The energy that is released with death absorbs into the earth and life. While I cannot at this time think of the technical words, there is some proof of energy moving to another living entity and affecting the information on a biological level. The energy in biology is transferable. If I can call you on a cell phone without wires to either of our phones, what do you think actually affects ?


I was right. We should have ended above.

Of course energy is transferable.

Food works for me.

The point is that we are all in this together, alone.

When you think of the all as an entity, think of it as a mainframe computer and us as P Cs that can upload.

I do not recall if I told you of my apotheosis, but that is the impression the experience left.

Regards
DL
Last edited by Greatest I am on Wed Jan 08, 2020 6:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Do logic and reason say that God is our servant?

Postby Ierrellus » Wed Jan 08, 2020 2:13 pm

Welcome Tab, from another dinosaur.
I see God at work in the deterministic creativity of DNA. Serving or being served has nothing to do with it.
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Re: Do logic and reason say that God is our servant?

Postby Ierrellus » Wed Jan 08, 2020 2:22 pm

Greatest I am wrote:
Ierrellus wrote:Reason seems to imply that God still does reveal himself, herself, itself through creative evolution.
Hi Kriss!


So your god is evolution and science?

Regards
DL

That is how God works, not necessarily the sum total of what God is.
"We must love one another or die." W.H.Auden
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Re: Do logic and reason say that God is our servant?

Postby Greatest I am » Wed Jan 08, 2020 6:40 pm

Ierrellus wrote:
Greatest I am wrote:
Ierrellus wrote:Reason seems to imply that God still does reveal himself, herself, itself through creative evolution.
Hi Kriss!


So your god is evolution and science?

Regards
DL

That is how God works, not necessarily the sum total of what God is.


Your god is inferior to nature and human morals.

Nature creates for the best possible end while your god crates for the worst end and his being infanticidal shows that clearly.
That is anti-natural.

The fact that his morals are inferior to yours is shown by you not being infanticidal or genocidal.

Do not worship what is beneath you.

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Re: Do logic and reason say that God is our servant?

Postby Ierrellus » Thu Jan 09, 2020 1:59 pm

GIA, I don't understand what God you are railing against. It's certainly not mine who operates through nature via embedded creative evolution. Your God is the fantasy, being inexplicable by the laws of science and nature, which is where we live.
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