Chicken or egg? What came first?

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Chicken or egg? What came first?

Postby AiR » Wed Oct 21, 2015 9:15 am

Chicken or egg? What came first? This is such a classic question that the world has continued to ask, for years and centuries, without coming to an answer. Is it not true that we contemplate - we were born from our parents, but then, where did our parents come from? They were born from their parents, but where did their parents come from? So finally, if the chicken came from the egg and the egg came from the chicken and the chicken came from the egg and the egg came from the chicken, then where did the chicken and the egg come from? Either the chicken or the egg should have come first.

People argue similarly on the origin of a tree and the seed. The seed gives birth to the tree and the tree gives seeds, but the seeds create a tree and the tree gives the seeds, but how did it all start? Did it start from the seed or did it start from a tree? Did it start from the chicken or did it start from the egg? It is after deep contemplation of this that you realize that this whole world is not a creation, but a manifestation of God. They all came about at one spot. Scientifically it’s called the Big Bang, but actually there is no big bang; it is the creation of the master creator. Now this is beyond religion. This is a spiritual logic that is used to understand creation. Thus, otherwise, how did all these species of man, animals, birds and plants come about? What is the secret of creation? One understands the secret only when he understands that this not a creation but a manifestation, and this manifestation is nothing but God manifested in various forms. Millions of God particles, manifested in plants, animals, human beings, create the universe as presented by God, but it’s only with spiritual logic that one can understand this. Scientifically, this will reach a dead end.

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Re: Chicken or egg? What came first?

Postby Kriswest » Wed Oct 21, 2015 11:08 am

Breeding studies answered the question decades back. This bred with a compatible that and produced an egg that a chicken came out of. Pollination works the same way.
Something combines with something else to create a breed. No God needed, just time and location.
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Re: Chicken or egg? What came first?

Postby Ierrellus » Wed Oct 21, 2015 2:38 pm

What came first was bacteria. These morphed, over a few million years, into the chicken that laid the egg. The which came first is only a problem if you do not believe in Darwinian evolution.
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Re: Chicken or egg? What came first?

Postby Kriswest » Thu Oct 22, 2015 10:45 am

Oh sure just go all the way back :)
Then the real question is about blueprints.
Did the blueprints for life exist before life and if so how?
I will be bitchy, cranky, sweet, happy, kind, pain in the ass all at random times from now on. I am embracing my mentalpause until further notice. Viva lack of total control!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! This is not a test,,, this is my life right now. Have a good day and please buckle up for safety reasons,, All those in high chairs, go in the back of the room.
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Re: Chicken or egg? What came first?

Postby Bob » Thu Oct 22, 2015 11:36 am

Ierrellus wrote:What came first was bacteria. These morphed, over a few million years, into the chicken that laid the egg. The which came first is only a problem if you do not believe in Darwinian evolution.

I'm not sure that Darwin actually realised the complexity of what he had latched on to, but it is becoming ever more clear that evolution is more than what we understand or what is taught. At the same time, the "seed" of life is obviously inherently part of the universe, and it just waits for the right conditions to start off - even if it is short lived. That is why the theistic explanation fails but a deistic standpoint could be accepted, since the presumed personal and loving God would allow life experiments to go catastrophically wrong, regardless of the moral standing of the life-forms in existence, and whether they are sentient or not.

The chicken and egg question is really doubting evolution, suggesting that they both came as they are into existence when God spoke. It is, however, as you say, and the egg has been through various stages of development until it became the brittle thing it is now.

Still, the question remains, taking evolution of some kind to be something that issues an unimaginable diversity of life out as soon as conditions are right, where is the DNA of the universe located? What kicks in, when conditions are agreeable? What sensory means recognises the right conditions? Where does the progressive mutation come from? There are still more questions unanswered than there are answers found.
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Re: Chicken or egg? What came first?

Postby Ierrellus » Thu Oct 22, 2015 12:43 pm

I still think the theory of panspermia answers the question of origins. Comets bearing organic chemicals plummeted to the deep, warm springs of the oceans. In this chemical soup nucleic acid emerged. Once the acid became enclosed it became the nucleus of a cell. The rest is evolutionary history, with all its false starts, mutations and manifestations of life forms.
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Re: Chicken or egg? What came first?

Postby Ultimate Philosophy 1001 » Tue Oct 27, 2015 4:52 am

Dinosaurs were here before chickens, according to evolution. So the egg came before the chicken. So the harder question is, which came first, the dinosaur or the egg? Probably the dinosaur, because the egg requires protection and incubation.

However, upon thinking about this, I am not so sure evolutionary theory, as we know it, is entirely credible. We must assume, according to evolutionary theory, that the egg came before the dinosaur, and that the dinosaur evolved from primordial egg laying lifeforms. So the real question is, which came first, the insect, or the egg? Who knows? In fact, I'm not even sure evolution is true because the Science Industry tried to cover up fossils that showed humans living with dinosaurs.
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Re: Chicken or egg? What came first?

Postby Ierrellus » Tue Oct 27, 2015 12:30 pm

If the theory of evolution is incorrect, how can we explain the fact that yeast and I share common genes? Life forms begin, usually, with seed or egg. This does not prove which came first, the chicken or the egg; it proves only when a viable organism was conceived. I still vote for the seeding of the planet from outer space. It makes more sense to me to believe that chemical conditions were sufficient to evolve into life forms. Otherwise I'd have to limit creation of chicken and egg to the whims of some god. IMHO, God created the ingredients of the primal soup; and the rest, they say, is history. Which came first? C, H, O, N. Our elements are most probably the debris shed off our closest star--the Sun. What came first?
Stars. The big bang.
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Re: Chicken or egg? What came first?

Postby Moreno » Tue Oct 27, 2015 1:24 pm

If you are a creationist, then the chicken.
If you are darwinian, then the egg. The egg is tied utterly to the chicken that comes out of it. They are genetically United. Mommy chicken might be different. A mutation may have taken Place.

Of course there was a chicken or at least a bird that layed that egg. But whatever moment in the evolution of that type of bird you decide, now we have chickens, well, it was the egg that came first. And it was laid by a not quite chicken.


But given that the difference might be unbelievable minor, the first chicken is a bit arbritrary.

Eggs in general came Before chickens since reptiles were laying eggs long Before birds came along.
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Re: Chicken or egg? What came first?

Postby Ultimate Philosophy 1001 » Tue Oct 27, 2015 3:45 pm

Ierrellus wrote:If the theory of evolution is incorrect, how can we explain the fact that yeast and I share common genes?


If life was created by some organism, rather than evolved, the design program could have copy pasted some genomes to speed up the process.
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Re: Chicken or egg? What came first?

Postby Kriswest » Wed Oct 28, 2015 1:03 am

Or more likely limited resources.
I will be bitchy, cranky, sweet, happy, kind, pain in the ass all at random times from now on. I am embracing my mentalpause until further notice. Viva lack of total control!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! This is not a test,,, this is my life right now. Have a good day and please buckle up for safety reasons,, All those in high chairs, go in the back of the room.
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Re: Chicken or egg? What came first?

Postby Ierrellus » Wed Oct 28, 2015 12:29 pm

Trixie Z wrote:
Ierrellus wrote:If the theory of evolution is incorrect, how can we explain the fact that yeast and I share common genes?


If life was created by some organism, rather than evolved, the design program could have copy pasted some genomes to speed up the process.

If the creator "organism" was pressed for time and had to copy paste, I might as well believe that Adam and Eve were created fully human. Evolution takes eons to arrive at specific organisms. Having all the time in the universe, a creator would see that the proper ingredients were mixed and that the mix could simmer before it was the primordial soup from which we evolved.
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Re: Chicken or egg? What came first?

Postby Arcturus Descending » Fri Nov 06, 2015 6:52 pm

That would depend on how well the chicken valued its egg and how steep the hill was.

As the egg was quickly rolling down the hill, the chicken could either chase after it, in which case the egg would probably come first.
If it wasn't such a great distance, as the egg was rolling down the hill, the chicken could fly over the egg and reach the destination before its egg got there. Of course, the chicken would then have to scold the egg for running away.
It all depends on the situation and the landscape.
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Re: Chicken or egg? What came first?

Postby Kriswest » Fri Nov 06, 2015 8:27 pm

Oh that is so baaaad :) :)
I will be bitchy, cranky, sweet, happy, kind, pain in the ass all at random times from now on. I am embracing my mentalpause until further notice. Viva lack of total control!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! This is not a test,,, this is my life right now. Have a good day and please buckle up for safety reasons,, All those in high chairs, go in the back of the room.
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Re: Chicken or egg? What came first?

Postby Ierrellus » Sat Nov 07, 2015 1:14 pm

It was chicken soup before it was chicken. :D
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Re: Chicken or egg? What came first?

Postby Arcturus Descending » Sat Nov 07, 2015 3:08 pm

Kriswest wrote:Oh that is so baaaad :) :)



:lol: Yes, I know, Kris. I just couldn't help myself there. :evilfun: I was actually wondering just how often that question had been asked here in ilp and so I had decided to put a different slant on it...maybe to add a different perspective. Could you see the little egg rolling down the hill as the Mama chased after it? lol

How have you been, swamp girl? :mrgreen:
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"Two things fill the mind with ever new and increasing admiration and awe, the oftener and more steadily we reflect on them: the starry heavens above me and the moral law within me."


“Whereas the beautiful is limited, the sublime is limitless, so that the mind in the presence of the sublime, attempting to imagine what it cannot, has pain in the failure but pleasure in contemplating the immensity of the attempt.”

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Re: Chicken or egg? What came first?

Postby gib » Sat Nov 07, 2015 5:08 pm

AiR wrote:Millions of God particles, manifested in plants, animals, human beings, create the universe as presented by God, but it’s only with spiritual logic that one can understand this.


What is spiritual logic to you, AiR?

Kriswest wrote:No God needed, just time and location.


But he (she?) is not saying a God created all this, he/she is saying the universe is God (or a "manifestation" of God). Still though, your point can be rephrased: the universe need not be God in order for all this to happen.

Ierrellus wrote:I still think the theory of panspermia answers the question of origins. Comets bearing organic chemicals plummeted to the deep, warm springs of the oceans.


Why does this seem like a more likely explanation than that these chemicals existed on Earth to begin with and came together to form the first cells?

Trixie Z wrote:Dinosaurs were here before chickens, according to evolution. So the egg came before the chicken. So the harder question is, which came first, the dinosaur or the egg?


The real answer is: the egg. The original "eggs" were single cells multiplying to become more cells. If the ovum really is an egg, then this is the obvious answer.

Trixie Z wrote:However, upon thinking about this, I am not so sure evolutionary theory, as we know it, is entirely credible. We must assume, according to evolutionary theory, that the egg came before the dinosaur, and that the dinosaur evolved from primordial egg laying lifeforms. So the real question is, which came first, the insect, or the egg? Who knows? In fact, I'm not even sure evolution is true because the Science Industry tried to cover up fossils that showed humans living with dinosaurs.


Though you can never trust the science you hear these days, I still think evolution theory makes more sense than creation theory.
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Re: Chicken or egg? What came first?

Postby Ierrellus » Sun Nov 08, 2015 2:36 pm

When Earth was forming, how did the chemicals necessary for life get here? Maybe they arrived as Earth was expelled as a chunk of molten rock from the sun. This doesn't rule out panspermia.
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Re: Chicken or egg? What came first?

Postby gib » Sun Nov 08, 2015 5:53 pm

Ierrellus wrote:When Earth was forming, how did the chemicals necessary for life get here? Maybe they arrived as Earth was expelled as a chunk of molten rock from the sun. This doesn't rule out panspermia.


If I remember correctly, the four chemical groups that are needed for life are: fats, sugars, proteins, and DNA. The first cells were basically fat bubbles containing water, proteins, and DNA (I don't remember what roll sugar played). These chemicals are made of a handful of the basic elements: mainly carbon, but also potassium, nitrogen, sodium, etc.--all elements that can easily have existed on Earth from the beginning.

You seem to think that panspermia is more likely than the idea that the ingredients for life began on Earth. Why is that?
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Re: Chicken or egg? What came first?

Postby Ultimate Philosophy 1001 » Sun Nov 08, 2015 6:16 pm

gib wrote:Though you can never trust the science you hear these days, I still think evolution theory makes more sense than creation theory.


my theory is that evolution did happen, but not on earth. The gods in the Bible were an alien race which terraformed earth 6000 years ago, some of the stories were true, others were just made up fairy tales made up by the gods to keep us in line
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Re: Chicken or egg? What came first?

Postby gib » Sun Nov 08, 2015 9:36 pm

Trixie Z wrote:
gib wrote:Though you can never trust the science you hear these days, I still think evolution theory makes more sense than creation theory.


my theory is that evolution did happen, but not on earth. The gods in the Bible were an alien race which terraformed earth 6000 years ago, some of the stories were true, others were just made up fairy tales made up by the gods to keep us in line


That's like Ierrelus's panspermia theory but with intelligent design worked into it. But it depends: do you think the gods brought the basic ingredients for life with them, or did they find them here and simply use them in their design?

And what about the evidence for life going back billions of years here on Earth? Do you think that was made up?
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Re: Chicken or egg? What came first?

Postby Ultimate Philosophy 1001 » Mon Nov 09, 2015 12:30 am

gib wrote:And what about the evidence for life going back billions of years here on Earth? Do you think that was made up?


probably since scientists tried to hide fossil evidence that showed man living with dinosaurs
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Re: Chicken or egg? What came first?

Postby gib » Mon Nov 09, 2015 1:11 am

Trixie Z wrote:probably since scientists tried to hide fossil evidence that showed man living with dinosaurs


Personally, I'm inclined to doubt all claims of evidence or claims of covering up evidence. Unless I see it with my own eyes, they're lying I say.

You read an article. It says: X covered up evidence of Y. <-- How do you know that's not the fraudulent claim?
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Re: Chicken or egg? What came first?

Postby Ultimate Philosophy 1001 » Mon Nov 09, 2015 1:37 am

wasnt an article i saw video footage of the fossils
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Re: Chicken or egg? What came first?

Postby gib » Mon Nov 09, 2015 2:10 am

Trixie Z wrote:wasnt an article i saw video footage of the fossils


Even that, I would question. How do we know the fossils weren't props? How do we know how to interpret what they're showing us.
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