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kk23wong wrote: The existence of the Conscious Earth is the only reason account for the establishment of religions and the rise of psychology. I believe some people knows the truth but they don't know how to express it. The comparisons between the mother cell and the Earth are a good start.

Teru Wong

"Nature herself has imprinted on the minds of all the idea of God." -Cicero

V-OutOfTheWilderness wrote:Even a blind pig finds an acorn every now and then ... same with our fantasies ...

Pigs have an excellent sense of smell. I can just see the rationalist saying that a blind pig will not find food and consider it random chance each time the determined little fellah keeps on finding it.
And was it really fantasy that allowed lay people to realize that animals had emotions, intentions and subjective experience? Or was it direct appraisal?
And is there no difference between individuals as far as intuition and direct appraisal?
That's not my experience.

Plato thought human soul is part of eternal realm of unchangeable reality, distinct from physical world including human body that becomes and perishes and “never really is.” Christians influenced by Plato taught physical world including our own bodies exists only to serve God’s purpose of saving or damning human souls and world as we know it will pass away, while our eternal souls remain.

In view of early modern natural philosophers like Descartes, Bacon, and Newton, everything else in world but human soul is composed of atoms like tiny billiard balls moving in void, totally determined by natural law, while human soul is supernatural and free of laws. Thus, what looks to us as thoroughly secular science was originally part of effort to separate human souls from natural world to provide support for traditional Christian belief in supernatural nature and immortality of soul. In world of early modern science, human beings were sometimes seen as only ones in world having any experience at all. God and angels and devils had experience, too; but, in world of nature, nothing had experience because physical world was built of atoms that were simply very tiny pieces of matter that were lifeless and totally devoid of experience. Hence, nothing made of them could have experience either. Since our own bodies were believed to be composed of atoms, there was no way to explain how even our bodies could have any experience. It was only supernatural, divinely created human souls that could have experience in this otherwise mechanical, barren, atoms-in-the-void, non-experiencing natural world. Human souls, they believed, are not part of natural world.

Thus did modern world become disenchanted. Despite the fact that the higher mammals were manifestly as conscious of pleasure and pain as other humans save that they do not share our language, they were viewed as purely mechanical clockwork. How convenient this was for vivisection and the tortures of agricultural-industrial complex. If we recognize the consciousness of an actual entity, we are ipso facto burdened with responsibility to it.

felix dakat wrote:Plato thought human soul is part of eternal realm of unchangeable reality, distinct from physical world including human body that becomes and perishes and “never really is.” Christians influenced by Plato taught physical world including our own bodies exists only to serve God’s purpose of saving or damning human souls and world as we know it will pass away, while our eternal souls remain.

In view of early modern natural philosophers like Descartes, Bacon, and Newton, everything else in world but human soul is composed of atoms like tiny billiard balls moving in void, totally determined by natural law, while human soul is supernatural and free of laws. Thus, what looks to us as thoroughly secular science was originally part of effort to separate human souls from natural world to provide support for traditional Christian belief in supernatural nature and immortality of soul. In world of early modern science, human beings were sometimes seen as only ones in world having any experience at all. God and angels and devils had experience, too; but, in world of nature, nothing had experience because physical world was built of atoms that were simply very tiny pieces of matter that were lifeless and totally devoid of experience. Hence, nothing made of them could have experience either. Since our own bodies were believed to be composed of atoms, there was no way to explain how even our bodies could have any experience. It was only supernatural, divinely created human souls that could have experience in this otherwise mechanical, barren, atoms-in-the-void, non-experiencing natural world. Human souls, they believed, are not part of natural world.

Thus did modern world become disenchanted. Despite the fact that the higher mammals were manifestly as conscious of pleasure and pain as other humans save that they do not share our language, they were viewed as purely mechanical clockwork. How convenient this was for vivisection and the tortures of agricultural-industrial complex. If we recognize the consciousness of an actual entity, we are ipso facto burdened with responsibility to it.

Thank you for your remarks.

My stance is human beings are living animals with higher intelligence only. Soul is a comfort given by both the imagination and the God (the Conscious Earth).

It's upset that the Earth is conscious cannot be proved unless more scientific breakthroughs allow us to have more understanding on the whole mechanism (e.g. the formation of the Earth's core and the ways she manipulated us such as any invisible waves etc.). It is close to the truth that a manipulator has influenced our world from the very beginning and rule over us with her invisible hands. I wonder if there is a one or more creators who created our world as well as this manipulator. It remains a question. However, the manipulator who decided everyone's destiny must exist. Our future is decided by both the God's will (the Conscious Earth / the manipulator) and our Free Will. Destiny and Fate. It created many coincidences in everyone's life to make us believe that there is a God, but it is actually different in the argument that she does not create the world. This manipulator was being created with our world from the very beginning and she is exactly the Earth herself. Her power led our ancestor to regard her existence as the creator. The physical differences created religions.

When people say God, they actually refer to a manipulator, not a creator.

Teru Wong

Thank you for your remarks.

My stance is human beings are living animals with higher intelligence only. Soul is a comfort given by both the imagination and the God (the Conscious Earth).

It's upset that the Earth is conscious cannot be proved unless more scientific breakthroughs allow us to have more understanding on the whole mechanism (e.g. the formation of the Earth's core and the ways she manipulated us such as any invisible waves etc.). It is close to the truth that a manipulator has influenced our world from the very beginning and rule over us with her invisible hands. I wonder if there is a one or more creators who created our world as well as this manipulator. It remains a question. However, the manipulator who decided everyone's destiny must exist. Our future is decided by both the God's will (the Conscious Earth / the manipulator) and our Free Will. Destiny and Fate. It created many coincidences in everyone's life to make us believe that there is a God, but it is actually different in the argument that she does not create the world. This manipulator was being created with our world from the very beginning and she is exactly the Earth herself. Her power led our ancestor to regard her existence as the creator. The physical differences created religions.

When people say God, they actually refer to a manipulator, not a creator.

Teru Wong

You are welcome. I agree that human beings are living animals with higher intelligence only. The "invisible hands" preceded the earth but do seem to intensify with the emergence of life. But we are not likely to get too far in this discussion without agreement about what consciousness is.

Here's a radio show that explores this issue and more. http://ttbook.org/book/mind-and-brain

Arguments on the meanings of consciousness remains. According to my understanding, consciousness refer to a high degree of self-awareness which proportional to the level of intelligence. After reaching a certain point of IQ, the concept of self(-images) rises. That mean human is more conscious of themselves then an octopus in the sea. Consciousness also refers to the responds it takes to the outside world. In this case, consciousness can be explained by neurology. The definition of consciousness remains doubt for philosophers.

Nevertheless, consciousness need a prerequisite. That is a physical presence of a brain. With reference to my claim "the Earth is conscious", the physical presence of the God is the Earth. It is a manipulator, not a creator. Her hidden hands is actually the real power in our world. Her rule is a dictatorship and that is a right come from birth. In the very beginning of this story, the Conscious Earth played the role as the God, the subject being worshiped by our ancestors. Her existence has stopped many of us from finding the true origin of our universe. Her power has created different religious sects and divided our world into segments. She is the God in the past, and should become the Conscious Earth nowadays since our technology become more advanced. We have people start to realize the truth. The one speaks to many of us is the dictator who was given the power from her birth. The creators of our world remain a myth.

It is a tyranny!

Teru Wong

James S Saint wrote:Consciousness == Remote recognition.

Isn't that a fruit of consciousness? ...

Earth is an egg that continues to hatch while remaining an egg. Consider the core to the crust as a decent representation of an egg. It is fertilized by forces beyond the planet --the sun, etc. It was probably first fertilized as bombardments of organic materials on comets and meteors fell into the the warm springs at the bottom of the sea. Given this argument for transpermia, yes, Earth is alive.
Correction--I think the term is panspermia as described by Crick-- the seeding of life on Earth from deep space.

James S Saint wrote:Consciousness == Remote recognition.

I have read through it, but it is difficult to understand. Is it a computer simulating the world by a set of given equations?

Anyway, I recall from a scientific journal that consciousness depends on the levels of intelligence. A shell animal is the least conscious, dog come next, then it is human.

Teru Wong

Ierrellus wrote:Earth is an egg that continues to hatch while remaining an egg. Consider the core to the crust as a decent representation of an egg. It is fertilized by forces beyond the planet --the sun, etc. It was probably first fertilized as bombardments of organic materials on comets and meteors fell into the the warm springs at the bottom of the sea. Given this argument for transpermia, yes, Earth is alive.

I am referring the Earth to a conscious being. Its formation is a process of "birth". At the same time, the "Transpermia" is also a claim.

"Conscious Earth" helps us to locate the manipulator, or the God that people usually refer to. The manipulations from the God (Conscious Earth) stops us from searching the origin of our universe. The voices who communicated with our ancestors (i.e. prophets) come from the Conscious Earth. She is a manipulator, not a creator. She was being created when the globe was early formed. Evolution is her growth and we are her reproduction. The Earth is alive and her end, brings us ours. We are animals with higher intelligence only.

We are life form in a lower level. It is the same with other animals, but the universe consists of lives in different levels.

Teru Wong

kk23wong wrote:

Ierrellus wrote:Earth is an egg that continues to hatch while remaining an egg. Consider the core to the crust as a decent representation of an egg. It is fertilized by forces beyond the planet --the sun, etc. It was probably first fertilized as bombardments of organic materials on comets and meteors fell into the the warm springs at the bottom of the sea. Given this argument for transpermia, yes, Earth is alive.

I am referring the Earth to a conscious being. Its formation is a process of "birth". At the same time, the "Transpermia" is also a claim.

"Conscious Earth" helps us to locate the manipulator, or the God that people usually refer to. The manipulations from the God (Conscious Earth) stops us from searching the origin of our universe. The voices who communicated with our ancestors (i.e. prophets) come from the Conscious Earth. She is a manipulator, not a creator. She was being created when the globe was early formed. Evolution is her growth and we are her reproduction. The Earth is alive and her end, brings us ours. We are animals with higher intelligence only.

We are life form in a lower level. It is the same with other animals, but the universe consists of lives in different levels.

Teru Wong

Teru Wong, yer awfully cute with this conscious earth thingie. I really like your conception of it.

But if the earth is conscious surely it would be a consciousness so far beyond human consciousness that we wouldn't ever be able to recognize it.

Recently I drove two stakes into the ground. The earth didn't flinch. Neither did its consciousness read my consciousness and so try to help me out by opening up and receiving the stakes.

It was like the earth wasn't conscious at all ...

V-OutOfTheWilderness wrote:But if the earth is conscious surely it would be a consciousness so far beyond human consciousness that we wouldn't ever be able to recognize it.

Her consciousness can easily be spotted by both religions and psychology. The mysterious voices which are being recognized as an illness come from the Conscious Earth. Her participation in human history is the evidence for the existence of such a consciousness. This subject really exists above human consciousness. It was being regarded as the God in religions. The Conscious Earth will replace all religions and become the dominant idea if we find there were lives on Mars. Every planet is a single world and all lives end with it. Then we will find ourselves nowhere to go except the Earth. We will find the planets are actually a higher form of lives. We will find the Earth is not as unique as the dominant religions have claimed.

Teru Wong

kk23wong wrote:

V-OutOfTheWilderness wrote:But if the earth is conscious surely it would be a consciousness so far beyond human consciousness that we wouldn't ever be able to recognize it.

Her consciousness can easily be spotted by both religions and psychology. The mysterious voices which are being recognized as an illness come from the Conscious Earth. Her participation in human history is the evidence for the existence of such a consciousness. This subject really exists above human consciousness. It was being regarded as the God in religions. The Conscious Earth will replace all religions and become the dominant idea if we find there were lives on Mars. Every planet is a single world and all lives end with it. Then we will find ourselves nowhere to go except the Earth. We will find the planets are actually a higher form of lives. We will find the Earth is not as unique as the dominant religions have claimed.

Teru Wong

Teru, can you produce actual evidence that the earth is conscious?

The womb of the Earth is the sea. The current scientific outlook on that is that all life probably began in that womb, in the warm springs at the bottom of the sea where organic precursors of life evolved into life. It may sound like, since Earth has a womb, Earth is conscious. But--Earth does not have to be conscious to produce life. The womb is a metaphor for probable beginnings of life.

Forget about earth consciousness or pan-psychism. Consciousness itself is a problem. Like the experience of God, some intelligent people among us don't get it at all.

felix dakat wrote:Forget about earth consciousness or pan-psychism. Consciousness itself is a problem.

But we know consciousness is. And just that in and of itself overloads our brains. It's easier to be than it is to know about it.

V-OutOfTheWilderness wrote:

felix dakat wrote:Forget about earth consciousness or pan-psychism. Consciousness itself is a problem.

But we know consciousness is. And just that in and of itself overloads our brains. It's easier to be than it is to know about it.

You must be able to define something before you demonstrate that it is. I haven't seen anyone do that for consciousnessmon this thread yet. James tried. But his definition i.e. remote recognition. doesn't have any immediate meaning for me. So it would itself needs definition for me. It doesn't correspond to what consciousness means to me. For me, consciousness what everything is like from my POV. I infer other consciousnesses from my own. I see no reason to suppose that the earth has a personal point of view.

felix dakat wrote:You must be able to define something before you demonstrate that it is..

Poppycock ... so gravity didn't exist before Newton defined it. Just so, consciousness exists without definition.

V-OutOfTheWilderness wrote:

felix dakat wrote:You must be able to define something before you demonstrate that it is..

Poppycock ... so gravity didn't exist before Newton defined it. Just so, consciousness exists without definition.

People observed things falling but they didn't begin know the true character of gravitation until Galileo began to demonstrate it. In a real sense, not until Newton formulated how it works lawfully could they discuss it rationally. Until then, they could point to phenomena but that isn't adequate when we are limited to discussion. Many things probably exist without definition, but we don't know what they are so we can't discuss them. If we don't define consciousness we have no way of knowing if we are talking about the same thing when we use the word. With consciousness, there is nothing for a third party to point to. Cognitive functions might occur without it as in the zombie problem.

felix dakat wrote:If we don't define consciousness we have no way of knowing if we are talking about the same thing when we use the word.

And that's precisely why I many times when referring to consciousness point to "the awareness reading these words at this moment." That way we know we are speaking about the same thing.

V-OutOfTheWilderness wrote:

felix dakat wrote:If we don't define consciousness we have no way of knowing if we are talking about the same thing when we use the word.

And that's precisely why I many times when referring to consciousness point to "the awareness reading these words at this moment." That way we know we are speaking about the same thing.

These days computers can read words quite well. How is awareness more than a feedback loop like the ones they use to open garage doors?

felix dakat wrote:

V-OutOfTheWilderness wrote:

felix dakat wrote:Forget about earth consciousness or pan-psychism. Consciousness itself is a problem.

But we know consciousness is. And just that in and of itself overloads our brains. It's easier to be than it is to know about it.

You must be able to define something before you demonstrate that it is.

Exactly true.

V-OutOfTheWilderness wrote:Teru, can you produce actual evidence that the earth is conscious?

The activities of the Conscious Earth are limited by her physical nature. The establishment of religion and the rise of psychology are evidences. Especially the mysterious voices that some of us (prophets and psycho patients) heard of are the actual evidence. It proves that a manipulator exists in our world but it is not necessarily referring to the Conscious Earth. The idea of Conscious Earth come from her physical limits. This manipulator is all-knowing and invisible. In this case, it is logical to think of it a higher form of lives. She is a consciousness above human beings. She is conscious in the way different from human beings. She is all-knowing and can talk to many people at the same time. Human consciousness can multi-tasking. The Earth consciousness is something much more then this. It enable her to rule the world in silence. She is invisible so that people is hard to find out the truth. She is whispering to so many people who think themselves are ill.

V-OutOfTheWilderness wrote:

felix dakat wrote:You must be able to define something before you demonstrate that it is..

Poppycock ... so gravity didn't exist before Newton defined it. Just so, consciousness exists without definition.

Can anyone help to define consciousness?
For me, I think it refers to self-awareness and the ability to respond to changes.

Teru Wong

kk23wong wrote:The establishment of religion and the rise of psychology are evidences.

There's way more evidence that human consciousness is responsible for religion and psychology than is earth consciousness.

Which brings us back around that, the earth is conscious, and we are it.