Is accepting Jesus as messiah a sin?

For intuitive and critical discussions, from spirituality to theological doctrines. Fair warning: because the subject matter is personal, moderation is strict.

Moderator: Dan~

Re: Is accepting Jesus as messiah a sin?

Postby Greatest I am » Mon Jul 19, 2021 4:56 pm

You ignored the major part.

Each one shall be put to death for his own sin.

Given that Jewish thinking that Jesus would have taught, Jesus could not and would not die for us.

To think that a god would die for his creations is not the brightest thinking, when he could just adjust all to what he wants.

Right?

Regards
DL
User avatar
Greatest I am
Philosopher
 
Posts: 2480
Joined: Thu Jun 10, 2010 4:07 pm

Re: Is accepting Jesus as messiah a sin?

Postby Arcturus Descending » Mon Jul 19, 2021 5:36 pm

Greatest I Am,

To think that a god would die for his creations is not the brightest thinking, when he could just adjust all to what he wants.

Right?


I am not a god but I brought my children into the world and I would die for them if it came down to that...

Is love and saving others necessarily about being the brightest kind of thinking or can it be more emotionally involved, more focused on survival of others?


...when he could just adjust all to what he wants.


Why would a God bother to create its creatures if they would become only puppets whose strings would be cut to begin again and again and again DELETE. How much adjusting might that take? That almost seems to be like an imaginary world to me. lol
Last edited by Arcturus Descending on Mon Jul 19, 2021 6:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
BE MELTING SNOW. WASH YOURSELF OF YOURSELF.

YOU WANDER FROM ROOM TO ROOM
HUNTING FOR THE DIAMOND NECKLACE
THAT IS ALREADY AROUND YOUR NECK!

DANCE UNTIL YOU SHATTER YOURSELF!

THERE IS A VOICE THAT DOESN'T USE WORDS. LISTEN!

LIFE IS A BALANCE BETWEEN HOLDING ON AND LETTING GO!

LET SILENCE TAKE YOU TO THE CORE OF LIFE!
User avatar
Arcturus Descending
Consciousness Seeker
 
Posts: 15723
Joined: Sat Sep 06, 2008 5:15 pm
Location: A state of unknowing

Re: Is accepting Jesus as messiah a sin?

Postby Greatest I am » Mon Jul 19, 2021 5:53 pm

Arcturus Descending wrote:
Greatest I Am,

To think that a god would die for his creations is not the brightest thinking, when he could just adjust all to what he wants.

Right?


I am not a god but I brought my children into the world and I would die for them if it came down to that...


Laudable and ditto. We are not supernatural gods so this is irrelevant.

We should all know that we are better than the genocidal gods we follow.

Is love and saving others necessarily about being the brightest kind of thinking or can it be more emotionally involved, more focused on survival of others?


Thinking is what creates emotions. The quality of the thinking is important to the validity of the emotion.
...when he could just adjust all to what he wants.


Why would a God bother to create its creatures if they would become only puppets whose strings would be cut to begin again and again and again DELETE. How much adjusting might that take? That almost seems to be like an imaginary world to me. lol


We are puppets without a free will, if you go by scriptures.

Please read this old O.P.

------------

Are non-believers doomed by Divine Design?

Scriptures say that God decides if a person will be a believer or non-believer. Those scriptures are shown in this link.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=byHYeHN4ZUQ

Those quotes seems to really screw up the free will notion that Christians say God gives us.

The free will that God offers is kind of a joke anyway given the number of people whose free will to live is ignored in the billions of adults, children and babies that God is shown to torture and murder in scriptures.

If the bible and Yahweh are to be believed, and as a non-believer, I, of course, cannot believe it, thanks to God, by God’s design and will against me, then why did God deny me belief or faith?

Even more important to believers, might be to answer the question of; did God make you a believer in things that you can only hope exists and can never confirm?

Are you happy with God ignoring or negating your free will to think as you please?

I have assumed that God’s work of creating both believers and non-believers is working. If that is so, and you believers must think it so, just as I as a non-believer cannot think it is working, --- and Jesus said that those with faith could do all he did and more, --- then there is not even one believer or person of faith that has ever existed.

Either the bible and Christianity is all a lie, or there must be some who can do what Jesus did.


What is your choice of those two options?

Is the bible and Christianity a lie, or is God just not creating any people with faith, --- which would make all Christians who say they have faith, --- liars.

I mean no insult here but someone is definitely lying, if we read what is written and look at reality and listen to Christians.

What do you think is the truth?

Is it just for God to create people doomed to hell even if they wanted to believe?

Regards
DL
User avatar
Greatest I am
Philosopher
 
Posts: 2480
Joined: Thu Jun 10, 2010 4:07 pm

Re: Is accepting Jesus as messiah a sin?

Postby obsrvr524 » Mon Jul 19, 2021 7:15 pm

Greatest I am wrote:You ignored the major part.

Each one shall be put to death for his own sin.

It seems that it is you who ignored my response to that very issue -
obsrvr524 wrote:In none of those cases are the punishments being advocated. The point in all of them is to NOT punish or reward unjustly. Where or how to punish or reward at all - is another matter.


Greatest I am wrote:Given that Jewish thinking that Jesus would have taught, Jesus could not and would not die for us.

"that Jesus would have taught"? - the killing? - that is the opposite of what Jesus taught.

Greatest I am wrote:To think that a god would die for his creations is not the brightest thinking, when he could just adjust all to what he wants. Right?

Wrong. As explained - life IS the making of choices to learn to survive. Without that ability to make their own choices - there is no life.

And there is a very specific reason Jesus had to die in order to save others. It is about the fact that extortion ("do what we say or die") is what was controlling the world - and the only way out of extortion is sacrifice. Every battle is the same - when the enemy has too much control over the situation through extortion (such as the present state of the US government - most especially O'Biden) - people have to just say "I'm not going to go along any more - go ahead - kill me - because I am not going to betray my people and my cause".
Member of The Coalition of Truth - member #1

              You have been observed.
    Though often tempted to encourage a dog to distinguish color I refuse to argue with him about it
    It's just same Satanism as always -
    • separate the bottom from the top,
    • the left from the right,
    • the light from the dark, and
    • blame each for the sins of the other
    • - until they beg you to take charge.
    • -- but "you" have been observed --
obsrvr524
Philosopher
 
Posts: 3134
Joined: Thu Jul 11, 2019 9:03 am

Re: Is accepting Jesus as messiah a sin?

Postby obsrvr524 » Mon Jul 19, 2021 7:46 pm

Greatest I am wrote:why did God deny me belief or faith?

Have you earnestly asked for it? It doesn't seem so. You seem to have chosen condemnation of that God - "You didn't give me what I wanted - FU!").

Greatest I am wrote:Is the bible and Christianity a lie, or is God just not creating any people with faith

God never creates people with faith. Faith is one of the lessons to learn - and everyone starts at a little different situation - requiring different order of learning - individual choices all along the way.

Greatest I am wrote:I mean no insult here but someone is definitely lying

Are you really sure that it isn't you - to yourself?

Greatest I am wrote:Is it just for God to create people doomed to hell even if they wanted to believe?

The path was shown - it is up to the living to make the choice to follow it - or not.

Science is no different. Ignore science and what happens? - condemnation (to the extent of the problem).

"Why don't scientists just make babies that instinctively do what science says"? China is working on that.

Do you really want to be a communist drone? Or to have the freedom to choose your own path? You say one - but seem to insist on the other.
Member of The Coalition of Truth - member #1

              You have been observed.
    Though often tempted to encourage a dog to distinguish color I refuse to argue with him about it
    It's just same Satanism as always -
    • separate the bottom from the top,
    • the left from the right,
    • the light from the dark, and
    • blame each for the sins of the other
    • - until they beg you to take charge.
    • -- but "you" have been observed --
obsrvr524
Philosopher
 
Posts: 3134
Joined: Thu Jul 11, 2019 9:03 am

Re: Is accepting Jesus as messiah a sin?

Postby Greatest I am » Mon Jul 19, 2021 11:32 pm

Stupid and immoral.

Ride your scapegoat alone. All moral cowards will.

Regards
DL
User avatar
Greatest I am
Philosopher
 
Posts: 2480
Joined: Thu Jun 10, 2010 4:07 pm

Re: Is accepting Jesus as messiah a sin?

Postby obsrvr524 » Tue Jul 20, 2021 2:43 am

-
      Cries and complaints from up in a tree
      A cat found petrified by gravity.
      A rescuer offers a helping hand.
      "No thanks you nasty immoral man!"
Member of The Coalition of Truth - member #1

              You have been observed.
    Though often tempted to encourage a dog to distinguish color I refuse to argue with him about it
    It's just same Satanism as always -
    • separate the bottom from the top,
    • the left from the right,
    • the light from the dark, and
    • blame each for the sins of the other
    • - until they beg you to take charge.
    • -- but "you" have been observed --
obsrvr524
Philosopher
 
Posts: 3134
Joined: Thu Jul 11, 2019 9:03 am

Re: Is accepting Jesus as messiah a sin?

Postby Greatest I am » Tue Jul 20, 2021 8:39 pm

obsrvr524 wrote:-
      Cries and complaints from up in a tree
      A cat found petrified by gravity.
      A rescuer offers a helping hand.
      "No thanks you nasty immoral man!"


Too stupidly blind, or immoral, to recognize that your prick of a god threw that cat up there.

You were wrongly condemned, idiot, so stop kissing the ass of your corrupt immoral genocidal judge.

Regards
DL
User avatar
Greatest I am
Philosopher
 
Posts: 2480
Joined: Thu Jun 10, 2010 4:07 pm

Re: Is accepting Jesus as messiah a sin?

Postby obsrvr524 » Tue Jul 20, 2021 10:41 pm

-
You are not biased are you? :shock:



:-"
Member of The Coalition of Truth - member #1

              You have been observed.
    Though often tempted to encourage a dog to distinguish color I refuse to argue with him about it
    It's just same Satanism as always -
    • separate the bottom from the top,
    • the left from the right,
    • the light from the dark, and
    • blame each for the sins of the other
    • - until they beg you to take charge.
    • -- but "you" have been observed --
obsrvr524
Philosopher
 
Posts: 3134
Joined: Thu Jul 11, 2019 9:03 am

Re: Is accepting Jesus as messiah a sin?

Postby Dan~ » Wed Jul 21, 2021 8:11 am

Greatest I am wrote:
obsrvr524 wrote:-
      Cries and complaints from up in a tree
      A cat found petrified by gravity.
      A rescuer offers a helping hand.
      "No thanks you nasty immoral man!"


Too stupidly blind, or immoral, to recognize that your prick of a god threw that cat up there.

You were wrongly condemned, idiot, so stop kissing the ass of your corrupt immoral genocidal judge.

Regards
DL


I don't like to see ad homs in threads.
Especially not in the religion and spirituality forum.
I suggest you consider your words before you post them.
I like http://www.accuradio.com , internet radio.
https://dannerz.itch.io/ -- a new and minimal webside now hosting my free game projects.
ImageImage
Truth is based in sensing, in vision. And we can only see when we are alive.
User avatar
Dan~
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 10722
Joined: Thu Nov 24, 2005 8:14 am
Location: Canada Alberta

Re: Is accepting Jesus as messiah a sin?

Postby Greatest I am » Wed Jul 21, 2021 1:10 pm

obsrvr524 wrote:-
You are not biased are you? :shock:



:-"


Indeed, but not stupid.

If you are not biased to my moral side, you should be.

Regards
DL
User avatar
Greatest I am
Philosopher
 
Posts: 2480
Joined: Thu Jun 10, 2010 4:07 pm

Re: Is accepting Jesus as messiah a sin?

Postby Meno_ » Wed Jul 21, 2021 3:16 pm

Something occured to me.
The anrhropormic myth of the architype father through Jesus -love' extends the childish feelings of this loss of a latent loss of from the model of the 'father-

In the ancient world, the literal objectification of the father model - was transformed into the father of all and any, and fathers in those early days were violent

This antremorphic transfernce , survived the social evolution through the clearing of the anomalous structural conflation between the older and the newer model of the anologous structural difference between father and son;
and the ' holy spirit' or the evolved conscious difference between them an anthropological difference.

Love between man and god had to reflect this difference through surmountable ways of accountability, hence the sinful father's selfish need to project and punish his son for his own sins - reflected the new found love that masquaraded for a deeper level of relationship that grew between them
That grand illusion was a logical outgrowth and not at all regrettable or sinful.

It showed that essentially fears of dependency can be overcome by a more responsible society for the welfare of new generations to come ,a more humane social networking.

This was essential at a time when old politically defined social networking were falling apart in the then world's guarantees for responsible social reality's excercise- shifted the individual.

Real fathers, powerless in the course, embraced the coming of the new found grandly projected sacrafice of a great master who turned political affibility into mystically absolute guarentees.
That this was an essential act, there can not be doubt.
And this enhances not diminishes the glorious intercession of the highest potential of a transfigured man.

That man resolved the identificational crisis that arose suddenly between the political and religious perimeters at that time.

A renewal of that crisis is evident in the rise of the sleeping dragon, now, a latency exhibited, now awoke to the many holes incipient in many a dynasties lack of Western conscious participation .
The West, in the middle of it, of ages past, politically repressed prior to the loss of faith in a Sun-King.
Last edited by Meno_ on Wed Jul 21, 2021 7:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Meno_
breathless
 
Posts: 9227
Joined: Tue Dec 08, 2015 2:39 am
Location: Mysterium Tremendum

Re: Is accepting Jesus as messiah a sin?

Postby Meno_ » Wed Jul 21, 2021 5:25 pm

In addition the failure of political stasis reduces to identity politics, when internal control mechanisms are projected outward, linking it to a demand for security .

Buddhism is more viable since it has no definable break point between the inner and outer self's autonomous focus on inner control. Most of it has been reified long ago.

The political control of the Chinese hierarchy does not clash with either the Capitalistic notion of the self made man, nor of the socialistic model inherent in uniformity of identifiable 'struggles'

Here in the West, there is that conflation which makes superstars in the art of establishing hidden perimetets
Meno_
breathless
 
Posts: 9227
Joined: Tue Dec 08, 2015 2:39 am
Location: Mysterium Tremendum

Re: Is accepting Jesus as messiah a sin?

Postby Meno_ » Wed Jul 21, 2021 8:43 pm

And lastly, if the retro projection of god to man would imply sin, then God would be the guilty one of allowing the Sim of crucifiction yo become an architypical model for man's consciance part of conscious manifestation (projection invrsion)

Since god can not be thus defined, Man must be guilty of not setting g the inversion right, and the fall must logically manifest in man's disobediance


Therefore the literal interprton of the Creation must be a grand illusion, which only God can understand. He absorbed this now delusion , skipping the overwhelming goodness of the said Creation, by sustaining the eternal regeneration behind this ,so that succeeding generations can see through the 'sin of Redemption.
Meno_
breathless
 
Posts: 9227
Joined: Tue Dec 08, 2015 2:39 am
Location: Mysterium Tremendum

Re: Is accepting Jesus as messiah a sin?

Postby Greatest I am » Thu Jul 22, 2021 1:45 pm

Meno_ wrote:And lastly, if the retro projection of god to man would imply sin, then God would be the guilty one of allowing the Sim of crucifiction yo become an architypical model for man's consciance part of conscious manifestation (projection invrsion)

Since god can not be thus defined, Man must be guilty of not setting g the inversion right, and the fall must logically manifest in man's disobediance


Therefore the literal interprton of the Creation must be a grand illusion, which only God can understand. He absorbed this now delusion , skipping the overwhelming goodness of the said Creation, by sustaining the eternal regeneration behind this ,so that succeeding generations can see through the 'sin of Redemption.


Interesting notions, if I understand it, but we can never really prove you are correct without historians arguing for eons to confirm all the aspects you have included.

That is partly why I focused on the morality aspect as then we might have an end game and definitive answer.

Regards
DL
User avatar
Greatest I am
Philosopher
 
Posts: 2480
Joined: Thu Jun 10, 2010 4:07 pm

Re: Is accepting Jesus as messiah a sin?

Postby Meno_ » Thu Jul 22, 2021 6:21 pm

Greatest I am wrote:
Meno_ wrote:And lastly, if the retro projection of god to man would imply sin, then God would be the guilty one of allowing the Sim of crucifiction yo become an architypical model for man's consciance part of conscious manifestation (projection invrsion)

Since god can not be thus defined, Man must be guilty of not setting g the inversion right, and the fall must logically manifest in man's disobediance


Therefore the literal interprton of the Creation must be a grand illusion, which only God can understand. He absorbed this now delusion , skipping the overwhelming goodness of the said Creation, by sustaining the eternal regeneration behind this ,so that succeeding generations can see through the 'sin of Redemption.


Interesting notions, if I understand it, but we can never really prove you are correct without historians arguing for eons to confirm all the aspects you have included.

That is partly why I focused on the morality aspect as then we might have an end game and definitive answer.

Regards
DL




I do apologize for my lousy eyesight. working on it, as far as the emphasis on morality , I would seek some connection with those insoluble You mention.
Meno_
breathless
 
Posts: 9227
Joined: Tue Dec 08, 2015 2:39 am
Location: Mysterium Tremendum

Re: Is accepting Jesus as messiah a sin?

Postby Greatest I am » Sat Jul 24, 2021 12:53 am

Meno_ wrote:
Greatest I am wrote:
Meno_ wrote:And lastly, if the retro projection of god to man would imply sin, then God would be the guilty one of allowing the Sim of crucifiction yo become an architypical model for man's consciance part of conscious manifestation (projection invrsion)

Since god can not be thus defined, Man must be guilty of not setting g the inversion right, and the fall must logically manifest in man's disobediance


Therefore the literal interprton of the Creation must be a grand illusion, which only God can understand. He absorbed this now delusion , skipping the overwhelming goodness of the said Creation, by sustaining the eternal regeneration behind this ,so that succeeding generations can see through the 'sin of Redemption.


Interesting notions, if I understand it, but we can never really prove you are correct without historians arguing for eons to confirm all the aspects you have included.

That is partly why I focused on the morality aspect as then we might have an end game and definitive answer.

Regards
DL




I do apologize for my lousy eyesight. working on it, as far as the emphasis on morality , I would seek some connection with those insoluble You mention.


No need for that.

Insoluble is not a word I recall using.

It is not the eyes that tell us that, if a man needed a blood sacrifice and had to choose from himself or his child, the father would die.

If a decent father that is.

Christians prefer the notion of sacrificing the innocent for the guilty.

Regards
DL
User avatar
Greatest I am
Philosopher
 
Posts: 2480
Joined: Thu Jun 10, 2010 4:07 pm

Re: Is accepting Jesus as messiah a sin?

Postby obsrvr524 » Sat Jul 24, 2021 4:53 pm

Greatest I am wrote: if a man needed a blood sacrifice and had to choose from himself or his child, the father would die.

If a decent father that is.

Christians prefer the notion of sacrificing the innocent for the guilty.

Regards
DL

So a bank robber holds 10 people hostage against a surrounding police force. The solution - all of the parents of the hostages - kill themselves. :-?

God was not the subject of interest - only the son and his people.

And beyond that God couldn't die even if God wanted to.
Member of The Coalition of Truth - member #1

              You have been observed.
    Though often tempted to encourage a dog to distinguish color I refuse to argue with him about it
    It's just same Satanism as always -
    • separate the bottom from the top,
    • the left from the right,
    • the light from the dark, and
    • blame each for the sins of the other
    • - until they beg you to take charge.
    • -- but "you" have been observed --
obsrvr524
Philosopher
 
Posts: 3134
Joined: Thu Jul 11, 2019 9:03 am

Re: Is accepting Jesus as messiah a sin?

Postby Meno_ » Sat Jul 24, 2021 6:22 pm

obsrvr524 wrote:
Greatest I am wrote: if a man needed a blood sacrifice and had to choose from himself or his child, the father would die.

If a decent father that is.

Christians prefer the notion of sacrificing the innocent for the guilty.

Regards
DL

So a bank robber holds 10 people hostage against a surrounding police force. The solution - all of the parents of the hostages - kill themselves. :-?

God was not the subject of interest - only the son and his people.

And beyond that God couldn't die even if God wanted to.



Actually, in the case for God, when he sacraficed His Son , He did it so that His people could believe, because Him and His Son are made of the same Holy Spirit.


They have been made through It, as it was made through the Father and the Son.

That is One Great Mystery, even as it is THE greatest mystery.

That God died through such a creedence is an insoluble mystery at their twilight. They all died for
the One.

This aspiration to be the One, and the implicit need to believe in Himself through the many is analogous to the basic ontological problem associated with the Universals, and a forced the temporal quantum existence of Being.That is scholastic stuf.

That is the promise of Christianity, that immortality is the reword to Man"s aspirations to overcome himself through the Trinity, and that aspiration has a pre-conscious Being ( In Him, Through Him, By Him) that has prepossessed him.
( In the beginning-was the Word)

That ultimate guarantee, if the existence of His Being , is, so that the Creation can be defined to be Good, through the Word.

Proof: where else can Man absolutely define that as Good, but through the Grace of God?



>>>>>>>>The. ancient idea of Good may have been derived from the Elysian mysteries.
Last edited by Meno_ on Sun Jul 25, 2021 1:35 am, edited 3 times in total.
Meno_
breathless
 
Posts: 9227
Joined: Tue Dec 08, 2015 2:39 am
Location: Mysterium Tremendum

Re: Is accepting Jesus as messiah a sin?

Postby Meno_ » Sat Jul 24, 2021 6:51 pm

And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.

Ephesians 2:8-9 - For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

Romans 6:14 - For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.

Romans 11:6 - And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

James 4:6 - But he giveth more grace. Wherefore he saith, God resisteth the proud, but giveth grace unto the humble.

Ephesians 2:8 - For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

1 Corinthians 15:10 - But by the grace of God I am what I am: and his grace which was bestowed upon me was not in vain; but I laboured more abundantly than they all: yet not I, but the grace of God which was with me.

Romans 5:8 - But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

Hebrews 4:16 - Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.

John 1:16 - And of his fulness have all we received, and grace for grace.

Romans 3:20-24 - Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

Titus 2:11-14 - For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,

Romans 3:24 - Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

2 Timothy 2:1 - Thou therefore, my son, be strong in the grace that is in Christ Jesus.

Isaiah 40:31 - But they that wait upon the LORD shall renew their strength; they shall mount up with wings as eagles; they shall run, and not be weary; and they shall walk, and not faint.

2 Peter 3:9 - The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
Meno_
breathless
 
Posts: 9227
Joined: Tue Dec 08, 2015 2:39 am
Location: Mysterium Tremendum

Previous

Return to Religion and Spirituality



Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users