Impeachment trial

Discussion of the recent unfolding of history.

Impeachment trial

Postby Meno_ » Wed Feb 10, 2021 12:11 am

The procedure holding Trump's trial unconstitutional was voted down . Next two days:

Opening arguments on both sides.

My bag of large popcorn was totally inadequate


The defensive argument, according to legal experts did not go very well, a hands on objective did not steer well. Whereas the DS werr able more convincingly to mute the crux:

That the writers of the Constitution did not intend to interpret the 1st and the 14 th amendments in a fashion to suit the Republican counter argument


The sticking point was a literal interpretation tjat meant to imply that only a sitting President is prevy to articles , since Trump is no longer President, he could not be impeached.

The counter argument, although literally more challenging , was flattened by the fact tjat his impeachment did occur prior to the inauguration.

Much was pressed to this basic issue, whereas the business about accountability was merely touched upon.

The substance of that revolved around the idea that no corresponding elements could be ascertained between the claim of Trump's inflammatory rhetoric and the actual storming of the capitol. This was merely a foreshadowing about who was more inflammatory or what was,
the primary rhetoric , on part of Trump, or, the underlying political motive that appears to stir the contradiction further.
Last edited by Meno_ on Thu Feb 11, 2021 10:36 pm, edited 4 times in total.
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Re: 1st day impeachment trial

Postby Mr Reasonable » Wed Feb 10, 2021 12:20 am

his guy got up there and read a fucking poem
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Re: impeachment trial

Postby Meno_ » Wed Feb 10, 2021 12:29 am

[quote="Mr Reasonable"]his guy got up there and read a fucking poem[/quote

LOL!



Although I missed that part,. I guess just got up to get more popcorn.
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Re: 2nd day impeachment trial

Postby Meno_ » Thu Feb 11, 2021 2:41 am

The prosecution opening was very convincing, but it appears that the prosecution desire to put the cause and effect between Trump's inflammatory rhetoric and the storming of the Capitol, is giving steam to the defensive Republican technique to convert that steam unto more solid ground, that of more reliance unto what constitutes that solidity: The resulting condensation into the assets, (liquid) of a emotive economy of quantum politics, far removed from the certainty of rock bottom certainty of causality


It is the Freudian economy, if I may, that political reality is morphed into the pleasure of party affiliation affords, so most Republicans, are very conflicted between the ethical and moral choice they have to decide between

Their own political future becomes more pressing morally, as their need to hold on to their jobs, overrules their moral sentiments.

Susan Collins, during a Senate break, expressed this this sentiment, contentionally implying it, if one could, without reading into it.

This type of conflict come party division could very well become the hidden rationale if the Republicans defense come next week
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Re: Impeachment trial. Third day

Postby Meno_ » Thu Feb 11, 2021 10:43 pm

The singular question can be sunnerized, in a mind of Cliff notes manner, that the whole political theater revolves around the question of what is more demonstritive here, the political benefit or lack of OR the ideals by which the Constitution may be represented from this day on.

If the former will be the case, then further ethical/moral decay may parallel the fallen empires of the past



The key defense, will be a challenge to the defense: that Trump's free speech constitutional right was violated, since the prosecution's point was well taken, pre-countered.

That is, inciting a well demonstrated violance, such as was the case in the storming of the Capitol, does not lay a basis for that constitutional right.

If the defense tries to circumvent the obvious inferences drawn by the various videos matched up. with concurrent Trump tweets, only a first year law student can miss those implications, unless they were willfully diversive; again to set a correspondence between intent and fact.

If this line is sustained, then the further implication strengthens the view that the trial is more theater then not.

The same goes to the idea of a deliberate refrain of impeaching before 45 leaves office. The thing is, the office which receives articles of impeachment would have lawfully rejected the articles before that time.

I did nit get the rationale for that, but if someone could not have missed that, while getting pop corn, would greatly be appreciate it.
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Re: Impeachment trial

Postby MagsJ » Fri Feb 12, 2021 2:14 pm

_
Is this a continuation of the pre-election impeachment, or a brand spanking and shiny new one?

I do think he’s been a pawn (knowingly or unknowingly), in the current situation that America has found itself in, so I think it unfair to continue with the trial. I hope he becomes un-impeached.
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Re: Impeachment trial

Postby Meno_ » Fri Feb 12, 2021 8:13 pm

MagsJ wrote:_
Is this a continuation of the pre-election impeachment, or a brand spanking and shiny new one?



I think it could be interpreted either way, one is more akin to Republican claims that the Democrats have been in a mission to get rid of Trump from the get go, the other appears more reasonable from the Dems who look at it as a separate and final straw to break the camel's back.

I do think he’s been a pawn (knowingly or unknowingly), in the current situation that America has found itself in, so I think it unfair to continue with the trial. I hope he becomes un-impeached.
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Re: Impeachment trial

Postby Meno_ » Fri Feb 12, 2021 8:16 pm

Meno_ wrote:
MagsJ wrote:_
Is this a continuation of the pre-election impeachment, or a brand spanking and shiny new one?



I think it could be interpreted either way, one is more akin to Republican claims that the Democrats have been in a mission to get rid of Trump from the get go, the other appears more reasonable from the Dems who look at it as a separate and final straw to break the camel's back.

I do think he’s been a pawn (knowingly or unknowingly), in the current situation that America has found itself in, so I think it unfair to continue with the trial. I hope he becomes un-impeached.





I think it is both an sequential continuum , from the Republicans point of view, vis. thAt the Dems always had it in fro Trump, which the Dems dsny; setting this impeachment up as a separate offense.
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Re: Impeachment trial

Postby Mr Reasonable » Fri Feb 12, 2021 8:17 pm

MagsJ wrote:_
Is this a continuation of the pre-election impeachment, or a brand spanking and shiny new one?

I do think he’s been a pawn (knowingly or unknowingly), in the current situation that America has found itself in, so I think it unfair to continue with the trial. I hope he becomes un-impeached.


Same one. The GOP held senate delayed the trial until he left office, then they lost control of the senate, then their first argument was that it would be unconstitutional to try a former president in the senate. They lost that vote and are now proceeding.

By their logic, any president could do anything in the last week of a term and there could be no legal remedy. I feel like that is an incorrect understanding of the separation of powers and of the limitations of the presidency. But they don't care about that. 15 of the gop senators literally didn't show up to hear the case, and I'll bet you anything that they show up to vote to acquit. This is party over country and it is fundamentally against the values of America.
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Re: Impeachment trial 4th day

Postby Meno_ » Fri Feb 12, 2021 11:16 pm

The key points today confirmed the prior assessment in previous days, that this whole political trial will balance against the constitutional argument.

The keystone is Mitch Mcconnel
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Re: Impeachment trial

Postby Mr Reasonable » Fri Feb 12, 2021 11:21 pm

if mcconnell wants unity then he needs to uphold his oath. he has nothing left to gain by pandering to the trumpites and their looney conspiracy theories.
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Re: Impeachment trial

Postby promethean75 » Fri Feb 12, 2021 11:36 pm

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Re: Impeachment trial

Postby Mr Reasonable » Fri Feb 12, 2021 11:44 pm

brian kemp should have never fucked her.
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Re: Impeachment trial 5th day

Postby Meno_ » Sat Feb 13, 2021 5:06 pm

Meno_ wrote:The key points today confirmed the prior assessment in previous days, that this whole political trial will balance against the constitutional argument.

The keystone is Mitch Mcconnel



Mitch Mcconnell suprise, he will vote to acquit, followed by Dems motion to pursue that by seeking procedural substance .

The vote on whether to athorize witnesses by deposing them , further escalates this process. Someone said that criminal prosecution outside the senate would satisfy grass roots optics. Of course Dems demurr.


The KEY issue here, is the proof that the Republicans claim is missing in reference to what Trump knew of the then ongoing storming of the Bastille-US Capitol, if i may makes that analology, when he appeared to ignore Pence's deathly situation.

The fear is wether a 'Pandora's Box of witnesses will slow the process, to a point where the whole thing will screech to a halt.

This vote in witnesses go to the heart of Mitch Mcdonnell's decision.
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Re: Impeachment trial

Postby Meno_ » Sat Feb 13, 2021 6:08 pm

Senate vitrd: witnesses will be called!



The Bugler stipulation is factual evidence that solidifies the Democrat's closing argument, while appropriately shortening the trial so that the Biden agenda can get on to meet the March 16 deadline. Contrary to the theory that it' s a loss pf political capital.

Michael van Der Veen stinks in closing.
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Re: Impeachment trial

Postby promethean75 » Sat Feb 13, 2021 7:00 pm

If the orange man is acquitted it's only because everyone was so distracted by raskin's magnificent bald spot, they couldn't concentrate on what he was sayin.
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Re: Impeachment trial

Postby Meno_ » Sat Feb 13, 2021 9:36 pm

promethean75 wrote:If the orange man is acquitted it's only because everyone was so distracted by raskin's magnificent bald spot, they couldn't concentrate on what he was sayin.





Jamie Raskin at least speaking ad hoc , never really stumbles on definitions.

How violance, insurrection and partial liability are disconcerning to be sure, but aren't they really convenient distractions to a singular charge?
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Re: Impeachment trial

Postby Meno_ » Sat Feb 13, 2021 10:03 pm

Final count- guilty 55; not guilty 45


2/3 majority not achieved- conclusion. :


Party line and possible job security preferred over
how this second near civil war may advance toward a third one.


May international instability not lean toward wider escalation to a 3rd World war, since the second has just now been reified as an inconclusive draw.
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