the coup attempts aren't over

[Gloominary]

K: actually in fact, every single person who participated is a domestic terrorist...


under the patriot act of 2001: Domestic terrorism are "activities that involve
acts dangerous to human life that are in violation of the criminal laws of the U.S
or of any state... B. appear to be intended to intimidate or coerce a civilian
population, to influence the policy of a government by mass destruction, assassination,
or kidnapping....

in other words by federal statue, they were and still are domestic terrorist...

Number 1, the patriot act should be torn up, under it any felony can constitute terrorism.

Number 2, the patriot act also applies to Antfia/BLM.

there is no other way to explain them....
otherwise... tell me this, why did these domestic terrorists need to
have zip ties which are used to tie up people... which means they
entered the capital building with the express purpose of killing or
kidnapping the congressmen....

they are domestic terrorist and until you can actually say that,
you are a liar... and a hypocrite....

Kropotkin

I haven't looked into this, so I'm not sure if that's the case, but in any case the key word there is some, or rather a few of them were supposedly found with zip ties, not all of them.

[Peter Kropotkin]

K: and yet, you still haven't acknowledge the fact that the violence the other
day, was the result of trying to OVERTHROWING THE GOVERNMENT... for the love of god,
the entire point of the other day was to OVETHROW THE GOVENRMENT....
a fact you still haven't acknowledge...

G: Dozens of unarmed idiots running around inside the capitol building doesn't constitute a coup, it was a disruption, mischief.

K: and still unable to say it.... domestic terrorists...
and even you admit it was a crowd of "hundred of thousands"
and within the capital itself it was a thousand plus....
with zip ties to kidnap congressman...with a noose hanging outside
of the capital ready for use..
...every single one of them.. say it with me.... domestic terrorists....

K: it wasn't marching for equal rights
or trying to make BLM... what part of OVERTHROWING THE GOVENRMENT
can't you acknowledge?

G: I don't see it that way.
Some of them were protesting for greater rights, others were looting, rioting, and terrorizing for greater rights, or just for the hell of it.

K: and you can't see it that way because you are so tied up into your
dogma's....you cannot escape your own mental viewpoint....where you see
all other actions within your viewpoints/dogma's...bob does something..
and does it fit within your own construct of being human?
so for example, in your world view.. black people are bad...
and so anything a black person does is bad... regardless of what
it is...

so until you become open to how you look at the world,
you will be dominated by dogmas that confirm your own biases
and prejudices

until you see how your dogma's are preventing you from seeing the actions the other
day as they are, an attempt to overthrow the govenrment...

K: the agenda of the left and the right were/are completely different
and that makes a difference....

G: I disagree.
I think conservatives have a better case to make for being oppressed than blacks.

K: and we have an early entrant into the "dumbest statements of the year" already...
really... really, that conservatives have a
"a better case to make for being oppressed then blacks"

K:under the law, violence can have different meanings...
for example, killing someone under self defense is a whole
different beast then killing someone over revenge or or for money.....
or OVERTHROWING THE GOVERNMENT....
the reason for violence can and does change the way the law looks at it....

G: In modern America, under no circumstances should you be able to get away with arson, assault, looting, murder and vandalism, end of story, it's not like the blacks were being chased down by the KKK, there was no immediate threat, there's no long term threat either, not that a long term threat would justify arson and so on, blacks are a protected class.

K: your white privilege is showing....there is an immediate threat to blacks from
the cops.... hence the entire point of the BLM movement.. there is a short term
and long term threat to blacks and that is the police...it isn't the KKK to which
I am sure the cops of the south belong to, but if blacks were so protected then
why are they sent to jails in larger percentage and why are they shot many more
times then whites and why are they sentence to far longer jail terms then whites?

Your believe in complete and utter nonsense... only you aren't smart enough to see it....

Kropotkin

[WendyDarling]

Thanks for making me look at the definition, dOOd.

I thought a coup was any proven attempt to overthrow the government through any means.

The main idea of the coup is to overthrow the government, the means violent. Need a new word for a non violent coup.

[Gloominary]

K: your white privilege is showing....there is an immediate threat to blacks from
the cops.... hence the entire point of the BLM movement.. there is a short term
and long term threat to blacks and that is the police...it isn't the KKK to which
I am sure the cops of the south belong to, but if blacks were so protected then
why are they sent to jails in larger percentage and why are they shot many more
times then whites and why are they sentence to far longer jail terms then whites?

White conservatives riot in a single building, for a single day, and 3 of them were killed by officers for it.
Black anti-white, misandrist Marxists murder, loot, beat up thousands of people and burn thousands of federal, state, county and private buildings for 7 months, and how many of them were killed by officers for it?
Proportionally, extremely few and extremely far in between.
All they accomplished, other than terrorizing millions of Americans, was demonstrating to anyone who doesn't have the blinders on, how much of a protected class they are.

[WendyDarling]

Post the stats of police murdering unarmed blacks and whites. Show me by the numbers how great the threat is PK.

[Gloominary]

So when conservatives commit a bit of vandalism inside the capitol building, they're trying to takeover the federal government, but when Antifa/BLM burns down and seizes state and municipal government buildings, and police stations, and neighborhoods, armed with assault rifles in some cases, they're not trying to takeover state and municipal governments?
Remember the Republic of CHAZ/CHOP in Seattle Washington?
What the hell was that?
Summer of love right?
Just some kids having a good time?
Not in any way a coup?
What a fucking joke.

[WendyDarling]

For once PK is right. The title of his thread is accurate. The left have been attempting a coup since Trump took office, Russiagate, impeachment, stealing an election, a second impeachment in the works, not to mention all their other stunts.

You are certainly right about that -

Now they have Ms Pelosi's laptop, which is why she is desperate to get Mr Trump out of office. She is being exposed for high treason. And that is why they had that fake fight at the Capital.

Who has her laptop...the Swamp?

[WendyDarling]

I'm not saying Trump should stage a coup, but what do you do with a party full of both war criminals, and terrorists?

What is the definition of a war criminal and terrorist? Nobody has been charged of anything, let alone found guilty.

[Gloominary]

I'm oppressed, therefore I get to burn down someone's small business, or loot it, or beat up the owner.
Wow, that's some oppression there.

[WendyDarling]

A coup of the sort that revolved around the "storming of the capitol" was basically just an "action" embraced by the "fulminating fanatics" on the right. There was and never will be the possibility of them ever succeeding against the might of the United States government. Or even the state and local governments able to call on the federal government to intervene.

Instead, only to the extent that a political faction in the country -- Trumpworld or otherwise -- is able to persuade a sizable chunk of the military to overthrow the government, is a real coup likely to happen.

The thugs we watching today might one day be part of a paramilitary force, similar to these guys: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sturmabteilung

But it would seem that only to the extent a crisis reached a level far beyond even 2020 would the "deep state" resort to an actual coup.

It's never out of the question of course but only fools like Joker see it around every corner.

If Trump wanted a coup, he would have asked for it and directed the 500,000 people to take the Capitol and none of the elected officials inside the capitol or security would be alive today. It would be over since Trump is commander in chief of the military and even if the opposing Democrat local police tried to intervene, they wouldn’t have succeeded against those numbers with hundreds of thousands more patriots coming in waves to assist.

[Gloominary]

Were they burning and looting people's cars, homes and small businesses in self-defense too?
Is everything self-defense when you're black?
Is rape self-defense?

[Gloominary]

Did thousands of innocent people deserve to have their neighborhoods burned to the ground, because oppression?
No, every neighborhood deserves to be protected, no matter what.
And where were democrats?
For about 7 months they were silent, they stood down, they let it happen, they defended the rioters.



In some cases they even aided, abetted and participated in the chaos.

[Peter Kropotkin]

Thanks for making me look at the definition, dOOd.

I thought a coup was any proven attempt to overthrow the government through any means.

The main idea of the coup is to overthrow the government, the means violent. Need a new word for a non violent coup.

K: ahhh, so 5 people dying isn't a "violent coup?" over 50 capital cops hurt or needing
hospitalization isn't "violent?" damage and vandalism to the capital... you admitted
that Pelosi laptop was taken.... ummmm, I hate to see your definition of "violence"...
if this is a "non-violent coup"

Kropotkin

[Peter Kropotkin]

alas, I must work now..... I am out for most likely this week around here...

knock yourself out...

Kropotkin

[iambiguous]

A coup of the sort that revolved around the "storming of the capitol" was basically just an "action" embraced by the "fulminating fanatics" on the right. There was and never will be the possibility of them ever succeeding against the might of the United States government. Or even the state and local governments able to call on the federal government to intervene.

Instead, only to the extent that a political faction in the country -- Trumpworld or otherwise -- is able to persuade a sizable chunk of the military to overthrow the government, is a real coup likely to happen.

The thugs we watching today might one day be part of a paramilitary force, similar to these guys: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sturmabteilung

But it would seem that only to the extent a crisis reached a level far beyond even 2020 would the "deep state" resort to an actual coup.

It's never out of the question of course but only fools like Joker see it around every corner.

If Trump wanted a coup, he would have asked for it and directed the 500,000 people to take the Capitol and none of the elected officials inside the capitol or security would be alive today. It would be over since Trump is commander in chief of the military and even if the opposing Democrat local police tried to intervene, they wouldn’t have succeeded against those numbers with hundreds of thousands more patriots coming in waves to assist.

That's my point. Trump could have done those things...and is still the commander in chief of the military. But he didn't. He said he'd march with them...but instead slunk off to the White House. So this was considerably less a coup than a mob of fulminating right wing fanatics/thugs who, in fact, did not even come remotely close to "overthrowing the government".

Trump is no doubt drawn and quartered here. A part of him would like to pull out all stops to stay in power. But that comes down to the extent to which he really is able to draw significant support from the military and paramilitary forces at his command. The mob that stormed the Capitol was no where near in that category.

On the other hand, there's 2024. He could run again. Or Don Jr. or Ivanka could run. So: If he goes too far now, that might be jeopardized.

Right?

[WendyDarling]

Gloom, the people we are arguing with have an inner sense of self righteousness that excuses all sorts of evil(like their supporting the people who try to burn people alive, so much evil has come out of the “peaceful protests” it would probably take weeks to list every incident, thousands upon thousands of people injured or killed, they excuse and rationalize) in the name of justice.

Show me the huge numbers of injustice. Police interactions vs. unarmed deaths Shock me to my senses.

[Gloominary]

People need to wake up.
Not all democrats, but the democratic party as a whole, are sending you a clear message.
That it's okay for Antifa/BLM to burn down your neighborhood at whim, under the guise of social justice.
They are complicit in terrorism.
Meanwhile republicans as a whole, while miles away from perfect, comparatively, under Trump at least, are the party of law and order.
When conservatives riot, they get quashed, fast.
Antifa/BLM?
They've got carte blanche.
I mean what do you do with that?
Is there a point of always playing by the rules when the opposition often refuses to?
There may be times and places where conservatives want to bend, or break the rules too, just throwing that out there.

[obsrvr524]

For once PK is right. The title of his thread is accurate. The left have been attempting a coup since Trump took office, Russiagate, impeachment, stealing an election, a second impeachment in the works, not to mention all their other stunts.

You are certainly right about that -

Now they have Ms Pelosi's laptop, which is why she is desperate to get Mr Trump out of office. She is being exposed for high treason. And that is why they had that fake fight at the Capital.

Who has her laptop...the Swamp?

The US Special Forces - according to Gen McInerney.

That explains why they immediately banned Mr Trump from Twitter. Now they have completely removed Parlor from all servers (about 400) - "1st Amendment be damned"

Ms Pelosi needs to push the impeachment through so that Mr Biden can grant her and the entire DNC staff amnesty in the same way Mr Obama granted amnesty to Hillery Clinton and her associates.

The question remains as to whether the Senate has time to hold an impeachment trial before Jan 20th.

[iambiguous]

People need to wake up.
Not all democrats, but the democratic party as a whole, are sending you a clear message.
That it's okay for Antifa/BLM to burn down your neighborhood at whim, under the guise of social justice.
They are complicit in terrorism.
Meanwhile republicans as a whole, while miles away from perfect, comparatively, under Trump at least, are the party of law and order.
When conservatives riot, they get quashed, fast.
Antifa/BLM?
They've got carte blanche.
I mean what do you do with that?
Is there a point of always playing by the rules when the opposition often refuses to?
There may be times and places where conservatives want to bend, or break the rules too, just throwing that out there.

Again:

So, why don't we take your arguments here to a new thread and explore them more rigorously. Given the areas that interest me here...

1] Noting the distinction between a frame of mind that revolves around a "real me" in sync and a set of moral and political values that are said to encompass objectively "the right thing to do", and "I" embodied subjectively/existentially in dasein, in moral and political prejudices...in the arguments I make for it/this in my signature threads; and specifically in this thread: https://www.ilovephilosophy.com/viewtop ... 1&t=176529 .

2] Noting that when someone does change their moral and political frame of mind, they are acknowledging that they were wrong about something in the is/ought world around them. And that, once they acknowledge this, they are acknowledging in turn they may well be wrong about other things. Finally, they are acknowledging that, yes, given new experiences, new relationships and access to new information, knowledge and ideas, they might be prompted to change their minds again. And again.

3] As a consequence, what I suggest is that we focus in on a particular moral and political truth of theirs and given a set of circumstances we examine our respective moral and political philosophies.

4] Here, however, I'm less interested in simply articulating what we believe is true in the way of moral and political truths and more focused in how we would go about demonstrating to others that all rational and virtuous men and women are obligated to think and to feel the same.

...along with the areas that interest you.

Same challenge to Wendy and Observr.

Come on, here is your chance to finally demonstrate just how shallow the arguments I make in my signature threads are.

[d0rkyd00d]

I'm oppressed, therefore I get to burn down someone's small business, or loot it, or beat up the owner.
Wow, that's some oppression there.

Nobody is making that argument. You have enough strawmen to start a mail-order business for farmers.

[d0rkyd00d]

Did thousands of innocent people deserve to have their neighborhoods burned to the ground, because oppression?
No, every neighborhood deserves to be protected, no matter what.
And where were democrats?
For about 7 months they were silent, they stood down, they let it happen, they defended the rioters.



In some cases they even aided, abetted and participated in the chaos.

Can you tell me how many "neighborhoods burned to the ground?"

[Gloominary]

If it was a coup, it wouldn't've been dozens of unarmed, unorganized jokers, it would've been thousands of armed, organized militiamen, they would've captured the capitol building, massacred or taken congressmen hostage, and the Trump administration would've done everything in its power to somehow persuade the military or a faction of it to join in the coup.
It was not a coup, it was a predominantly peaceful protest, with some disruption and rioting.
By mischaracterizing it as a coup, dems, RINOs and Never Trumpers are in fact trying to stage yet another coup of their own, a coup by fraud.

[iambiguous]

When conservatives riot, they get quashed, fast.
Antifa/BLM?
They've got carte blanche.

Another point of view:

https://www.npr.org/2021/01/07/95456849 ... nforcement.
https://www.politifact.com/article/2021 ... ssault-co/

Alternate spins, sure. But alternate facts?

[Gloominary]

I'm not saying Trump should stage a coup, but what do you do with a party full of both war criminals, and terrorists?

Yeah, coup attempt after coup attempt since 2016, *crickets chirping* silence from all the nutty lefties because they don’t understand it could possibly be true, not after they’ve been spoon fed lies that support their inner righteousness.

The establishments knows exactly what they're doing, they've declared war on Trump, not because of anything illegal or unconstitutional, but because they feel threatened by his nationalist policies, and they will use any means at their disposal, including violating the constitution and law, in order to remove him.
Unfortunately many of the masses haven't figured this out, and may never.
Many of them have blind faith in the establishment.
They hate individualism, and populist democracy, they will be lead by the establishment off a cliff.

[Gloominary]

They tried to use Russiagate, a disproven conspiracy theory, to remove him.
They tried to use Kristine Blasey Ford to remove Kavanaugh, even tho she had absolutely no evidence she ever even met Kavanaugh, not a shred.
And it goes on and on, the scamdemic, the race riots, what many if not most republicans believe was a stolen election, and now mischaracterizing the capitol building protest as a coup.
Should be obvious to everyone by now what they're doing.
They're at war with, not only the Trump admin, but with the American people in general.
They unleashed their Antifa/BLM goon squad on the American people.
They're terrorists, and what goes around comes around.
Whatever harm befalls them, they had coming.