American domestic terrorist killed yesterday, not patriot.

Discussion of the recent unfolding of history.

Re: American domestic terrorist killed yesterday, not patrio

Postby Gloominary » Mon Jan 11, 2021 5:23 am

Trump has never called for violence.
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Re: American domestic terrorist killed yesterday, not patrio

Postby Gloominary » Mon Jan 11, 2021 5:24 am

Dems spent 4 years contesting 2016, come on.
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Re: American domestic terrorist killed yesterday, not patrio

Postby d0rkyd00d » Mon Jan 11, 2021 5:37 am

Well look at these peaceful little buggers:

Text messages from Cleveland Grover Meredith Jr., a man who allegedly brought an assault weapon to the violent riots in Washington, D.C., on Wednesday, reveal his desire to kill Nancy Pelosi, according to court documents obtained by The Daily Beast. In one, Meredith wrote, “Thinking about heading over to Pelosi C*NT’s speech and putting a bullet in her noggin on Live TV,” which was punctuated with a purple devil emoji. In a further conversation found on his cellphone by a D.C. police after he was arrested at the Holiday Inn in Washington with a camper full of weapons including a Glock handgun, a pistol, a Tavor X95 assault rifle and hundreds of rounds of ammunition, he wrote, “Dead Bitch Walking. I predict that within 12 days, many in our country will die.” He then texted a photo of himself wearing a black face covering with the caption, “I’m gonna walk around DC FKG with people by yelling “Allahu ak Bar” [sic] randomly.”

Meredith is one of 13 people facing federal charges in Wednesday’s attempted coup on Capital Hill.

https://www.thedailybeast.com/texts-sho ... itter_page
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Re: American domestic terrorist killed yesterday, not patrio

Postby Gloominary » Mon Jan 11, 2021 5:49 am

Yea, out of hundreds of thousands of protestors and in light of everything that's happened in 2020, statistically you're bound to get a few dangerously crazy people, it doesn't mean anything.
And the Trump admin quashed it, quick, because they're the party of law and order, for what it's worth, meanwhile dems are the party of mayhem and anarchy.
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Re: American domestic terrorist killed yesterday, not patrio

Postby felix dakat » Mon Jan 11, 2021 5:50 am

Gloominary wrote:Dems spent 4 years contesting 2016, come on.

False equivalency. They never attack the capitol and tried to stop Congress from functioning.
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Re: American domestic terrorist killed yesterday, not patrio

Postby Gloominary » Mon Jan 11, 2021 5:54 am

felix dakat wrote:
Gloominary wrote:Dems spent 4 years contesting 2016, come on.

False equivalency. They never attack the capitol and tried to stop Congress from functioning.

For 7 months, far left rioters and terrorists burnt and seized federal, state and municipal government buildings and police departments, they ransacked and set neighborhoods ablaze, while democrats did everything in their power to roll out the red carpet for them.
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Re: American domestic terrorist killed yesterday, not patrio

Postby WendyDarling » Mon Jan 11, 2021 6:05 am

d0rkyd00d wrote:Well look at these peaceful little buggers:

Text messages from Cleveland Grover Meredith Jr., a man who allegedly brought an assault weapon to the violent riots in Washington, D.C., on Wednesday, reveal his desire to kill Nancy Pelosi, according to court documents obtained by The Daily Beast. In one, Meredith wrote, “Thinking about heading over to Pelosi C*NT’s speech and putting a bullet in her noggin on Live TV,” which was punctuated with a purple devil emoji. In a further conversation found on his cellphone by a D.C. police after he was arrested at the Holiday Inn in Washington with a camper full of weapons including a Glock handgun, a pistol, a Tavor X95 assault rifle and hundreds of rounds of ammunition, he wrote, “Dead Bitch Walking. I predict that within 12 days, many in our country will die.” He then texted a photo of himself wearing a black face covering with the caption, “I’m gonna walk around DC FKG with people by yelling “Allahu ak Bar” [sic] randomly.”

Meredith is one of 13 people facing federal charges in Wednesday’s attempted coup on Capital Hill.

https://www.thedailybeast.com/texts-sho ... itter_page

It doesn’t say he was arrested in the Capitol or anywhere in its immediate vicinity during the capitol uprising. Did he make it inside the capitol or was he arrested at his hotel in Washington before the incident since he was making threats before the incident? The article is very unclear to me what the man’s involvement was regarding the capitol building siege. He was going to attend, but did he make it inside or is the story simply implying that he stormed into the capitol armed and heading to kill pelosi. Were any of the 13 people arrested actually inside the capitol during the seige? They imply a connection to the actual siege but I’ll bet they were all arrested before the incident. Let me know if any of the 13 were involved in “sieging.”
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Re: American domestic terrorist killed yesterday, not patrio

Postby obsrvr524 » Mon Jan 11, 2021 6:10 am

Gloominary wrote:
felix dakat wrote:
Gloominary wrote:Dems spent 4 years contesting 2016, come on.

False equivalency. They never attack the capitol and tried to stop Congress from functioning.

For 7 months, far left rioters and terrorists burnt and seized federal, state and municipal government buildings and police departments, they ransacked and set neighborhoods ablaze, while democrats did everything in their power to roll out the red carpet for them.

Not to mentioning murdering police and others.

But all of that was ok --- because they were offended.
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Re: American domestic terrorist killed yesterday, not patrio

Postby WendyDarling » Mon Jan 11, 2021 6:13 am

felix dakat wrote:
Gloominary wrote:Dems spent 4 years contesting 2016, come on.

False equivalency. They never attack the capitol and tried to stop Congress from functioning.

Yet, they attempted several non violent coups to remove a seated president, to overthrow the government.
The constitution is due for an amendment to include non violent coups to overthrow a government ( Russia hoax, impeachment, etc.)
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Re: American domestic terrorist killed yesterday, not patrio

Postby felix dakat » Mon Jan 11, 2021 6:40 am

WendyDarling wrote:
felix dakat wrote:
Gloominary wrote:Dems spent 4 years contesting 2016, come on.

False equivalency. They never attack the capitol and tried to stop Congress from functioning.

Yet, they attempted several non violent coups to remove a seated president, to overthrow the government.
The constitution is due for an amendment to include non violent coups to overthrow a government ( Russia hoax, impeachment, etc.)


More false equivalency. The impeachment process was conducted according to the US Constitution.
The purpose of my life would seem to be to express the truth as I discover it, but in such a manner that it is completely devoid of authority. By having no authority, by being seen by all as utterly unreliable, I express the truth and put everyone in a contradictory position where they can only save themselves by making the truth their own.
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Re: American domestic terrorist killed yesterday, not patrio

Postby felix dakat » Mon Jan 11, 2021 6:40 am

WendyDarling wrote:
felix dakat wrote:
Gloominary wrote:Dems spent 4 years contesting 2016, come on.

False equivalency. They never attack the capitol and tried to stop Congress from functioning.

Yet, they attempted several non violent coups to remove a seated president, to overthrow the government.
The constitution is due for an amendment to include non violent coups to overthrow a government ( Russia hoax, impeachment, etc.)


More false equivalency. The impeachment process was conducted according to the US Constitution.
The purpose of my life would seem to be to express the truth as I discover it, but in such a manner that it is completely devoid of authority. By having no authority, by being seen by all as utterly unreliable, I express the truth and put everyone in a contradictory position where they can only save themselves by making the truth their own.
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Re: American domestic terrorist killed yesterday, not patrio

Postby Gloominary » Mon Jan 11, 2021 6:43 am

obsrvr524 wrote:Not to mentioning murdering police and others.

But all of that was ok --- because they were offended.

Yup, they only care about power, not principle.
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Re: American domestic terrorist killed yesterday, not patrio

Postby Gloominary » Mon Jan 11, 2021 6:48 am

WendyDarling wrote:
felix dakat wrote:
Gloominary wrote:Dems spent 4 years contesting 2016, come on.

False equivalency. They never attack the capitol and tried to stop Congress from functioning.

Yet, they attempted several non violent coups to remove a seated president, to overthrow the government.
The constitution is due for an amendment to include non violent coups to overthrow a government ( Russia hoax, impeachment, etc.)

That's a good idea, maybe the supreme court could determine if there's sufficient evidence to impeach a president.
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Re: American domestic terrorist killed yesterday, not patrio

Postby Gloominary » Mon Jan 11, 2021 6:52 am

felix dakat wrote:More false equivalency. The impeachment process was conducted according to the US Constitution.

It may've been constitutional, but the impeachment was baseless, and immoral, they did it out of spite.
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Re: American domestic terrorist killed yesterday, not patrio

Postby d0rkyd00d » Mon Jan 11, 2021 4:01 pm

Gloominary wrote:
felix dakat wrote:More false equivalency. The impeachment process was conducted according to the US Constitution.

It may've been constitutional, but the impeachment was baseless, and immoral, they did it out of spite.


Okay but you understand the U.S. Constitution is the ultimate source of process. They intentionally attempted to disrupt a Constitutional process on, at best, extremely poor evidence (hearsay, no process to come up with legitimate affidavits, etc.).

If all Americans thought the election was fraudulent, there would have been more than 10,000 marching on the Capitol. But the truth is, most believe this minority to be confused about the facts and reality. If Trump's premise is false, there's no more moral rationale for what occurred. Pretty big stakes, and the evidence is extremely underwhelming for fraud at the level that would change an election.
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Re: American domestic terrorist killed yesterday, not patrio

Postby d0rkyd00d » Mon Jan 11, 2021 4:02 pm

Perhaps your residence of Canada limits your understanding of U.S. process, history, and culture?
"So long as the people do not care to exercise their freedom, those who wish to tyrannize will do so; for tyrants are active and ardent, and will devote themselves in the name of any number of gods, religious and otherwise, to put shackles upon sleeping men." -Voltaire

"If an opinion contrary to your own makes you angry, that is a sign that you are subconsciously aware of having no good reason for thinking as you do."
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Re: American domestic terrorist killed yesterday, not patrio

Postby d0rkyd00d » Mon Jan 11, 2021 5:27 pm

Rejection of terrorism IS intolerance...Yes. We openly accept that.

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"So long as the people do not care to exercise their freedom, those who wish to tyrannize will do so; for tyrants are active and ardent, and will devote themselves in the name of any number of gods, religious and otherwise, to put shackles upon sleeping men." -Voltaire

"If an opinion contrary to your own makes you angry, that is a sign that you are subconsciously aware of having no good reason for thinking as you do."
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Re: American domestic terrorist killed yesterday, not patrio

Postby Gloominary » Mon Jan 11, 2021 5:52 pm

d0rkyd00d wrote:
Gloominary wrote:
felix dakat wrote:More false equivalency. The impeachment process was conducted according to the US Constitution.

It may've been constitutional, but the impeachment was baseless, and immoral, they did it out of spite.


Okay but you understand the U.S. Constitution is the ultimate source of process. They intentionally attempted to disrupt a Constitutional process on, at best, extremely poor evidence (hearsay, no process to come up with legitimate affidavits, etc.).

That's all dems tried to do for the last 4 years, disrupt Trump's constitutional presidency based on wild speculation and hearsay.

If all Americans thought the election was fraudulent, there would have been more than 10,000 marching on the Capitol.

Looked more like hundreds of thousands to me.
From what I gather, a majority of republican congressmen and voters, tens of millions of people, and over 20 states believe the election in swing states Michigan, Wisconsin and so on was illegitimate, yet the supreme court dismissed their charge, largely offhand, without giving it a chance.
Not sure about independents and democrat voters.
In light of the last two American elections, I don't really trust pollsters to give accurate info about what Americans believe, especially on highly controversial, divisive and partisan issues, they've been wildly inaccurate time after time.

But the truth is, most believe this minority to be confused about the facts and reality. If Trump's premise is false, there's no more moral rationale for what occurred. Pretty big stakes, and the evidence is extremely underwhelming for fraud at the level that would change an election.

I haven't looked into the evidence enough to comment much on it.
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Re: American domestic terrorist killed yesterday, not patrio

Postby d0rkyd00d » Mon Jan 11, 2021 5:56 pm

Gloominary wrote:Looked more like hundreds of thousands to me.


Well your perception always has been a bit...odd....when it comes to statistical analysis and personal anecdote. Sorry, but your perception is no replacement for facts.

Gloominary wrote:From what I gather, a majority of republican congressmen and voters, tens of millions of people, and over 20 states believe the election in swing states Michigan, Wisconsin and so on was illegitimate, yet the supreme court dismissed their charge, largely offhand, without giving it a chance.
Not sure about independents and democrat voters.
In light of the last two American elections, I don't really trust pollsters to give accurate info about what Americans believe, especially on highly controversial, divisive and partisan issues, they've been wildly inaccurate time after time.


You say they were dismissed "offhand" by the courts. That clearly is evidence for your next statement.

I haven't looked into the evidence enough to comment much on it.
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Re: American domestic terrorist killed yesterday, not patrio

Postby Gloominary » Mon Jan 11, 2021 6:22 pm

d0rkyd00d wrote:
Gloominary wrote:Looked more like hundreds of thousands to me.


Well your perception always has been a bit...odd....when it comes to statistical analysis and personal anecdote. Sorry, but your perception is no replacement for facts.

There are no facts, only interpretations.
Some may be better than others, some may come from better places than others, but there is no absolute.
The MSM has proven to be extremely biased, hyper-partisan.
We oughta supplement it with independent experience, research and thinking, or vice versa.

Gloominary wrote:
d0rkyd00d wrote:From what I gather, a majority of republican congressmen and voters, tens of millions of people, and over 20 states believe the election in swing states Michigan, Wisconsin and so on was illegitimate, yet the supreme court dismissed their charge, largely offhand, without giving it a chance.
Not sure about independents and democrat voters.
In light of the last two American elections, I don't really trust pollsters to give accurate info about what Americans believe, especially on highly controversial, divisive and partisan issues, they've been wildly inaccurate time after time.


You say they were dismissed "offhand" by the courts. That clearly is evidence for your next statement.
Gloominary wrote:I haven't looked into the evidence enough to comment much on it.

I'm not sure, but I think it was even admitted in the MSM they dismissed it largely offhand, without giving it much, if any chance, despite how much support it had from republicans.
Last edited by Gloominary on Mon Jan 11, 2021 6:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: American domestic terrorist killed yesterday, not patrio

Postby d0rkyd00d » Mon Jan 11, 2021 6:24 pm

That's the issue, you're unsure of a lot of things, you admittedly "haven't looked into it much."

It's not a very interesting foundation on which to engage.
"So long as the people do not care to exercise their freedom, those who wish to tyrannize will do so; for tyrants are active and ardent, and will devote themselves in the name of any number of gods, religious and otherwise, to put shackles upon sleeping men." -Voltaire

"If an opinion contrary to your own makes you angry, that is a sign that you are subconsciously aware of having no good reason for thinking as you do."
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Re: American domestic terrorist killed yesterday, not patrio

Postby Gloominary » Mon Jan 11, 2021 6:27 pm

d0rkyd00d wrote:That's the issue, you're unsure of a lot of things, you admittedly "haven't looked into it much."

It's not a very interesting foundation on which to engage.

But you're not sure the contrary is true, are you?
How thoroughly have you examined the evidence for yourself?
Are you sure the supreme court did a thorough investigation of the matter before ruling it out?
Or did they barely give it the time of day?
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Re: American domestic terrorist killed yesterday, not patrio

Postby Gloominary » Mon Jan 11, 2021 6:30 pm

Perhaps they feared civil war and being hunted down by the establishment and their goons, maybe that's the real reason they rejected it.
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Re: American domestic terrorist killed yesterday, not patrio

Postby d0rkyd00d » Mon Jan 11, 2021 6:34 pm

Gloominary wrote:
d0rkyd00d wrote:That's the issue, you're unsure of a lot of things, you admittedly "haven't looked into it much."

It's not a very interesting foundation on which to engage.


But you're not sure the contrary is true, are you?
How thoroughly have you examined the evidence for yourself?
Are you sure the supreme court did a thorough investigation of the matter before ruling it out?
Or did they barely give it the time of day?


I'm sure the contrary is very unlikely. You speak from ignorance, then project it onto others.

I'm not here to think for you. I have done the research, I have looked at the evidence. Part of that process involved me gaining a better understanding of the U.S. Constitution, reading the court decisions, listening to the "testimony" of those who claim there was wrongdoing, and the various responses from GOP Congressmen and Trump & associates.

Meanwhile, I suspect you sit on your flabby pancake ass, drinking in bitchute videos and OANN, thinking you're forming an educated opinion after looking exclusively at propaganda and rhetoric, putting your trust in others to have done the research before sharing their opinion with you.

How close does that come to reality?
"So long as the people do not care to exercise their freedom, those who wish to tyrannize will do so; for tyrants are active and ardent, and will devote themselves in the name of any number of gods, religious and otherwise, to put shackles upon sleeping men." -Voltaire

"If an opinion contrary to your own makes you angry, that is a sign that you are subconsciously aware of having no good reason for thinking as you do."
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Re: American domestic terrorist killed yesterday, not patrio

Postby iambiguous » Mon Jan 11, 2021 6:57 pm

Gloominary wrote:
d0rkyd00d wrote:That's the issue, you're unsure of a lot of things, you admittedly "haven't looked into it much."

It's not a very interesting foundation on which to engage.

But you're not sure the contrary is true, are you?
How thoroughly have you examined the evidence for yourself?
Are you sure the supreme court did a thorough investigation of the matter before ruling it out?
Or did they barely give it the time of day?


That's how these things always seem to unfold.

Were those who stormed the Capitol terrorists or patriots?

Well, we are all in the same boat here.

First, we have to acknowledge the gap between what we think that we know about it and all that there is to be known about it. The gap between an omniscient understanding of it and that more or less tiny fraction of knowledge that we have of it "here and now". Going back to all there is to be known about the existence of existence itself. How does our own infinitesimally puny speck of existence here figure into the really, really, really Big Questions.

Now my argument is that we take out of questions like this what we first put into them: our "self".

If the existential trajectory of our lives went in one direction we call them terrorists, if in another direction we call them patriots. But for those of an authoritarian bent, what matters is not so much what they are but that they are either one or the other. They need to believe that the answer is within our reach.

After all, that's where, psychologically, the comfort and the consolation lie. In knowing that we are right and they are wrong. Thus, even if the bad guys win, it doesn't make them less wrong.
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

Start here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=176529
Then here: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=185296
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