Wuhan China ended their Lockdown 7 months ago

Discussion of the recent unfolding of history.

Re: Wuhan China ended their Lockdown 7 months ago

Postby d0rkyd00d » Tue Dec 22, 2020 4:46 pm

Gloominary wrote:I don't know anyone who's been infected let alone died from this thing, whatever that even means, given their criteria for determining cause of death is absurd.


And you do realize anecdotal evidence is about as flawed as it gets.
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Re: Wuhan China ended their Lockdown 7 months ago

Postby d0rkyd00d » Tue Dec 22, 2020 4:47 pm

Gloominary wrote:
2) as the other guy has pointed out, China did stuff that an openly totalitarian state can do. They actually padlocked buildings. They locked down apartment buildings. Their lockdown made the lockdowns in other countries look like libertarian optional guidelines. We don't know if that made the difference, but their approach was vastly more total quarantine than anything in the West.

Let's say it came from a bat or some other animal in China.
If a single bat can lead to the infection of tens of thousands of Chinese within a few months, then as long as Covid survives in a few individuals, they should be able to infect tens of thousands of individuals within months.

Furthermore, as enviably totalitarian as China is, there're a lot of backward, rural and totally ignorant parts, seems these parts would've kept the germ thriving, ready to infect the rest of the population in the more subjugated, urban centers.


These mental calculations are pure speculation and have no basis in reality, until proven.
"So long as the people do not care to exercise their freedom, those who wish to tyrannize will do so; for tyrants are active and ardent, and will devote themselves in the name of any number of gods, religious and otherwise, to put shackles upon sleeping men." -Voltaire

"If an opinion contrary to your own makes you angry, that is a sign that you are subconsciously aware of having no good reason for thinking as you do."
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Re: Wuhan China ended their Lockdown 7 months ago

Postby obsrvr524 » Tue Dec 22, 2020 4:48 pm

d0rkyd00d wrote:
obsrvr524 wrote:Lock 330 million people into their homes and block anyone else from coming into the nation for 3 months while waiting for all of those already infected to die.

Sounds like a plan - - from a communist dictator. Or Gov Cuomo except he would first send all of the infected elderly into their elderly care homes.


It was a plan from a communist dictator, which incidentally led to better outcomes. Not saying I agree with the actions taken, but I am not so dogmatic as to be blind to the idea that in this situation, taking freedom by force likely saved lives. Fucked up but true.

They could have been even more effective by merely shooting anyone with a fever on the spot.

Why not? It would have saved lives and a lot of money.
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Re: Wuhan China ended their Lockdown 7 months ago

Postby Gloominary » Tue Dec 22, 2020 4:49 pm

Gloominary wrote:From what I gather, NZ hasn't been locked down since October.
But China lifted its lockdown in April, whereas NZ was in and out of lockdown from spring to autumn.
That Jacinda is one crazy, lockdown happy bitch, she'd lock them down over just a handful of cases.
Mark my words, she'll lock NZ down again sometime this winter.

Oh wait, it's summer in NZ, never mind, no wonder they're not in lockdown, wait till their autumn or winter.
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Re: Wuhan China ended their Lockdown 7 months ago

Postby Gloominary » Tue Dec 22, 2020 4:59 pm

d0rkyd00d wrote:
Gloominary wrote:I don't know anyone who's been infected let alone died from this thing, whatever that even means, given their criteria for determining cause of death is absurd.


And you do realize anecdotal evidence is about as flawed as it gets.

I disagree, anecdotal evidence is the most reliable in some ways, because I can trust my friends and family more than I can trust ultra-high-net-worth technocrats, talking heads and politicians.
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Re: Wuhan China ended their Lockdown 7 months ago

Postby Gloominary » Tue Dec 22, 2020 5:07 pm

d0rkyd00d wrote:
Gloominary wrote:
2) as the other guy has pointed out, China did stuff that an openly totalitarian state can do. They actually padlocked buildings. They locked down apartment buildings. Their lockdown made the lockdowns in other countries look like libertarian optional guidelines. We don't know if that made the difference, but their approach was vastly more total quarantine than anything in the West.

Let's say it came from a bat or some other animal in China.
If a single bat can lead to the infection of tens of thousands of Chinese within a few months, then as long as Covid survives in a few individuals, they should be able to infect tens of thousands of individuals within months.

Furthermore, as enviably totalitarian as China is, there're a lot of backward, rural and totally ignorant parts, seems these parts would've kept the germ thriving, ready to infect the rest of the population in the more subjugated, urban centers.


These mental calculations are pure speculation and have no basis in reality, until proven.

I interpret the data myself, I don't wait for technocrats to do it for me.
If I see holes in their interpretations, I point them out, I don't overlook them.
I don't trust these people, and neither should anyone.
If the masses refuse to think for themselves and critically examine everything the tech Gods say, these people will exploit us.
You don't get to just take my freedom and wealth from me, you have to constantly prove such actions are absolutely necessary, which they have failed to do.
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Re: Wuhan China ended their Lockdown 7 months ago

Postby Gloominary » Tue Dec 22, 2020 5:07 pm

___
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Re: Wuhan China ended their Lockdown 7 months ago

Postby Gloominary » Tue Dec 22, 2020 5:11 pm

Some of you people don't know what democracy is, really you may hate democracy.
Democracy is the people sometimes listening to experts, but ultimately deciding for themselves what's true and false, right and wrong.
If the masses are to blindly follow the technocrats, if technocrats demand humungous transfers of wealth and power without any question, criticism or challenge, then we are moving from democracy into authoritarian technocracy.
By your logic, we should just get rid of democracy and let the politicians, social engineers, economists and medical experts run our lives for us, after all, what do Joe and Jane average know about anything?
Nothing
That's the very antithesis of democracy.
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Re: Wuhan China ended their Lockdown 7 months ago

Postby Urwrongx1000 » Tue Dec 22, 2020 7:15 pm

Sculptor wrote:It's not only a great argument; it is the correct one.
China did not have a moronic president that took the piss out of people who wore masks.
The US did practically nothing with est track and trace.
China did not have a bunch of pathetic moaners who refsed to wear a mask.Sweemeing "Its against my fweedom. boo hoo."
China supplied good PPE to medical staff.

Can you do me a favor?



















Can you SHILL HARDER for China and your Communist buddies?

Please?


I want to see you bend over backward for your ideology. What's your salary for subverting USA? Looks too cheap to waste my time with.
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Re: Wuhan China ended their Lockdown 7 months ago

Postby d0rkyd00d » Wed Dec 23, 2020 12:41 am

Gloominary wrote:
d0rkyd00d wrote:
Gloominary wrote:I don't know anyone who's been infected let alone died from this thing, whatever that even means, given their criteria for determining cause of death is absurd.


And you do realize anecdotal evidence is about as flawed as it gets.

I disagree, anecdotal evidence is the most reliable in some ways, because I can trust my friends and family more than I can trust ultra-high-net-worth technocrats, talking heads and politicians.


Yes, in some VERRRRRY limited ways, but not when it comes to statistical analysis spanning large numbers.
"So long as the people do not care to exercise their freedom, those who wish to tyrannize will do so; for tyrants are active and ardent, and will devote themselves in the name of any number of gods, religious and otherwise, to put shackles upon sleeping men." -Voltaire

"If an opinion contrary to your own makes you angry, that is a sign that you are subconsciously aware of having no good reason for thinking as you do."
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Re: Wuhan China ended their Lockdown 7 months ago

Postby d0rkyd00d » Wed Dec 23, 2020 12:42 am

Urwrongx1000 wrote:
Sculptor wrote:It's not only a great argument; it is the correct one.
China did not have a moronic president that took the piss out of people who wore masks.
The US did practically nothing with est track and trace.
China did not have a bunch of pathetic moaners who refsed to wear a mask.Sweemeing "Its against my fweedom. boo hoo."
China supplied good PPE to medical staff.


Can you do me a favor?


Can you SHILL HARDER for China and your Communist buddies?

Please?

I want to see you bend over backward for your ideology. What's your salary for subverting USA? Looks too cheap to waste my time with.


Do you see how your response is solely ad hominem? And do you know what ad hominem is?
"So long as the people do not care to exercise their freedom, those who wish to tyrannize will do so; for tyrants are active and ardent, and will devote themselves in the name of any number of gods, religious and otherwise, to put shackles upon sleeping men." -Voltaire

"If an opinion contrary to your own makes you angry, that is a sign that you are subconsciously aware of having no good reason for thinking as you do."
-Bertrand Russell
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Re: Wuhan China ended their Lockdown 7 months ago

Postby d0rkyd00d » Wed Dec 23, 2020 12:45 am

Gloominary wrote:Some of you people don't know what democracy is, really you may hate democracy.
Democracy is the people sometimes listening to experts, but ultimately deciding for themselves what's true and false, right and wrong.
If the masses are to blindly follow the technocrats, if technocrats demand humungous transfers of wealth and power without any question, criticism or challenge, then we are moving from democracy into authoritarian technocracy.
By your logic, we should just get rid of democracy and let the politicians, social engineers, economists and medical experts run our lives for us, after all, what do Joe and Jane average know about anything?
Nothing
That's the very antithesis of democracy.


The founding fathers of the American Constitution were very skeptical of democracy for that exact reason, they feared the uneducated masses creating and implementing destructive policies. Hence the Democratic Republic.
"So long as the people do not care to exercise their freedom, those who wish to tyrannize will do so; for tyrants are active and ardent, and will devote themselves in the name of any number of gods, religious and otherwise, to put shackles upon sleeping men." -Voltaire

"If an opinion contrary to your own makes you angry, that is a sign that you are subconsciously aware of having no good reason for thinking as you do."
-Bertrand Russell
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Re: Wuhan China ended their Lockdown 7 months ago

Postby Gloominary » Wed Dec 23, 2020 3:45 am

Yes, in some VERRRRRY limited ways, but not when it comes to statistical analysis spanning large numbers.

Nah, personal and anecdotal experience is greater than statistics in many ways.
Statistics give you a bird's eye view, personal and anecdotal experience from partners, friends, family and colleagues is much richer, vivid, more detailed and trustworthy.
And what applies to a population group may not apply to every individual within that population group.
What applies to one population group may not apply to another.
What applies in one place and at one time may not always and everywhere apply.
When it comes to relationships, psychology and medicine, our personal and anecdotal experience is critical, as a guide.
Personal and anecdotal experience can also be analyzed by the experiencers, but Intuition is also important, and instinct.
It's been said the vast majority of communication is nonverbal, well I think the vast majority of thinking is nonlinear, intuitive, inarticulable.
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Re: Wuhan China ended their Lockdown 7 months ago

Postby Gloominary » Wed Dec 23, 2020 4:04 am

d0rkyd00d wrote:
Gloominary wrote:Some of you people don't know what democracy is, really you may hate democracy.
Democracy is the people sometimes listening to experts, but ultimately deciding for themselves what's true and false, right and wrong.
If the masses are to blindly follow the technocrats, if technocrats demand humungous transfers of wealth and power without any question, criticism or challenge, then we are moving from democracy into authoritarian technocracy.
By your logic, we should just get rid of democracy and let the politicians, social engineers, economists and medical experts run our lives for us, after all, what do Joe and Jane average know about anything?
Nothing
That's the very antithesis of democracy.


The founding fathers of the American Constitution were very skeptical of democracy for that exact reason, they feared the uneducated masses creating and implementing destructive policies. Hence the Democratic Republic.

The founders wanted to balance majority authority with individual liberty, but what they didn't want at all was technocratic authority.
The idea that medical experts would try to run our lives for us, with us having little-no say, was unthinkable to them, but they were aware of the dangers of other kinds of oligarchy: philosophical, plutocratic, political, religious and so on.
They were against oligarchy, altho universal white male suffrage took a few decades to fully implement, and then from there black male, female.
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Re: Wuhan China ended their Lockdown 7 months ago

Postby Gloominary » Wed Dec 23, 2020 4:17 am

I like individual liberty, and I like majority authority, not into minority authority, whether it's progressivism on the left hand, or corporatism on the right hand, or technocracy, or theocracy.
Last edited by Gloominary on Wed Dec 23, 2020 10:53 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Wuhan China ended their Lockdown 7 months ago

Postby Urwrongx1000 » Wed Dec 23, 2020 5:15 am

d0rkyd00d wrote:Do you see how your response is solely ad hominem? And do you know what ad hominem is?

His first comment was an ad hominid. I responded accordingly. I will not respect disrespectful people, including you.

If you were 'fair' then you would have pointed this comment at him, first.
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Re: Wuhan China ended their Lockdown 7 months ago

Postby obsrvr524 » Wed Dec 23, 2020 5:25 am

Urwrongx1000 wrote:
d0rkyd00d wrote:Do you see how your response is solely ad hominem? And do you know what ad hominem is?

His first comment was an ad hominid. I responded accordingly. I will not respect disrespectful people, including you.

If you were 'fair' then you would have pointed this comment at him, first.

People on the Left don't do that. You should know that by now - "Rules for Thee - not for Me".
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Re: Wuhan China ended their Lockdown 7 months ago

Postby Urwrongx1000 » Wed Dec 23, 2020 5:28 am

I do know that, dorkydood seems to not.
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Re: Wuhan China ended their Lockdown 7 months ago

Postby Sculptor » Wed Dec 23, 2020 10:25 am

Urwrongx1000 wrote:
Sculptor wrote:It's not only a great argument; it is the correct one.
China did not have a moronic president that took the piss out of people who wore masks.
The US did practically nothing with test, track and trace.
China did not have a bunch of pathetic moaners who refsed to wear a mask.Sweemeing "Its against my fweedom. boo hoo."
China supplied good PPE to medical staff.

Can you do me a favor?

.

I just did do you a favour.
I reminded you of a few facts.

The US and the UK are the laughing stock of the world when it comes to this pandemic.
But you'll be okay - just keep in telling yourself that none of this is happening; Trump won the election and the pandemic is just a scam.
=D> =D>
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Re: Wuhan China ended their Lockdown 7 months ago

Postby d0rkyd00d » Wed Dec 23, 2020 10:56 am

Urwrongx1000 wrote:
d0rkyd00d wrote:Do you see how your response is solely ad hominem? And do you know what ad hominem is?

His first comment was an ad hominid. I responded accordingly. I will not respect disrespectful people, including you.

If you were 'fair' then you would have pointed this comment at him, first.


I'm sorry but you rarely respond to the arguments, rather hurling ad homs.
"So long as the people do not care to exercise their freedom, those who wish to tyrannize will do so; for tyrants are active and ardent, and will devote themselves in the name of any number of gods, religious and otherwise, to put shackles upon sleeping men." -Voltaire

"If an opinion contrary to your own makes you angry, that is a sign that you are subconsciously aware of having no good reason for thinking as you do."
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Re: Wuhan China ended their Lockdown 7 months ago

Postby d0rkyd00d » Wed Dec 23, 2020 10:57 am

obsrvr524 wrote:
Urwrongx1000 wrote:
d0rkyd00d wrote:Do you see how your response is solely ad hominem? And do you know what ad hominem is?

His first comment was an ad hominid. I responded accordingly. I will not respect disrespectful people, including you.

If you were 'fair' then you would have pointed this comment at him, first.

People on the Left don't do that. You should know that by now - "Rules for Thee - not for Me".


I can understand why folks get frustrated when almost every thread devolves from discussing an argument to a right hand talking point, communism fear mongering circle jerk.
"So long as the people do not care to exercise their freedom, those who wish to tyrannize will do so; for tyrants are active and ardent, and will devote themselves in the name of any number of gods, religious and otherwise, to put shackles upon sleeping men." -Voltaire

"If an opinion contrary to your own makes you angry, that is a sign that you are subconsciously aware of having no good reason for thinking as you do."
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Re: Wuhan China ended their Lockdown 7 months ago

Postby Gloominary » Wed Dec 23, 2020 10:59 am

Gloominary wrote:
d0rkyd00d wrote:
Gloominary wrote:Some of you people don't know what democracy is, really you may hate democracy.
Democracy is the people sometimes listening to experts, but ultimately deciding for themselves what's true and false, right and wrong.
If the masses are to blindly follow the technocrats, if technocrats demand humungous transfers of wealth and power without any question, criticism or challenge, then we are moving from democracy into authoritarian technocracy.
By your logic, we should just get rid of democracy and let the politicians, social engineers, economists and medical experts run our lives for us, after all, what do Joe and Jane average know about anything?
Nothing
That's the very antithesis of democracy.


The founding fathers of the American Constitution were very skeptical of democracy for that exact reason, they feared the uneducated masses creating and implementing destructive policies. Hence the Democratic Republic.

The founders wanted to balance majority authority with individual liberty, but what they didn't want at all was technocratic authority.
The idea that medical experts would try to run our lives for us, with us having little-no say, was unthinkable to them, but they were aware of the dangers of other kinds of oligarchy: philosophical, plutocratic, political, religious and so on.
They were against oligarchy, altho universal white male suffrage took a few decades to fully implement, and then from there black male, female.

Yea, it's a hybrid system, representative/democracy, individual liberty/collective authority.
They didn't want pure democracy, but they didn't want pure oligarchy either.
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Re: Wuhan China ended their Lockdown 7 months ago

Postby Urwrongx1000 » Wed Dec 23, 2020 11:03 am

d0rkyd00d wrote:I'm sorry but you rarely respond to the arguments, rather hurling ad homs.

So you dodged here, which I expected.

I don't mind good arguments, you and the other Commies are welcome to bring some forward at anytime.

This is another common straw-man, as-if the Conservative-Right fears open dialogue.


Also note, Sculptor enters with Ad Hominid attacks, but it is *I* who is penalized for it. This is a typical liberal-left-commie tactic.
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Re: Wuhan China ended their Lockdown 7 months ago

Postby Urwrongx1000 » Wed Dec 23, 2020 11:04 am

Sculptor wrote:I just did do you a favour.
I reminded you of a few facts.

The US and the UK are the laughing stock of the world when it comes to this pandemic.
But you'll be okay - just keep in telling yourself that none of this is happening; Trump won the election and the pandemic is just a scam.
=D> =D>

So you admit you're a CCP shill, got it. But everybody already knew it. You may go away now. Shoo.
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Re: Wuhan China ended their Lockdown 7 months ago

Postby obsrvr524 » Wed Dec 23, 2020 11:07 am

d0rkyd00d wrote:I can understand why folks get frustrated when almost every thread devolves from discussing an argument to a right hand talking point, communism fear mongering circle jerk.

Well ok your right but also try to understand how dangerous communist sympathizers appear to people who see beyond there apparent fantasy utopia. Communism has murdered millions and millions of people and shows no sign of doing any differently tomorrow. Their basic premise that people exist to serve the government directly implies that people are not the priority at all - and will soon be dispensable as robots and AI do their bidding. COVID just proves it all the more.

But I'll try to back off of the personal digs if you will try to realize the danger we are seeing even if you are not seeing it. :D
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