Remember kids, a pardon is an admission of guilt...

Discussion of the recent unfolding of history.

Remember kids, a pardon is an admission of guilt...

Postby Peter Kropotkin » Mon Dec 07, 2020 8:34 pm

so every single person that IQ45 pardons, has committed a crime...

if they didn't commit a crime, then why do they need a pardon?

and so, if IQ45 tries to self-pardon, then what crime or crimes did he
commit that needed to be pardoned?

and the best part about a pardon? you can't claim the 5th under
court testimony... if you try, you lose your pardon....so,

so all those fun perks of avoiding court testimony, goes away upon
becoming a private citizen.....

so, personally, I hope the entire Trump crime clan lies at their various
court proceedings...and boom, they are not longer covered by
their pardons.......

I am an old man with very few dreams left, but one of my few remaining dreams
is to see the entire Trump clan end up in prison... its a small dream granted
but one I hope to see....

Kropotkin
PK IS EVIL.....
Peter Kropotkin
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 8924
Joined: Thu Apr 07, 2005 1:47 am
Location: blue state

Re: Remember kids, a pardon is an admission of guilt...

Postby WendyDarling » Mon Dec 07, 2020 8:47 pm

PK cannot stop wishing ill on people. PK is evil.
Member of The Coalition of Truth - member #2/2

"facts change all the time and not only that, they don't mean anything...."-Peter Kropotkin :evilfun:
"I can hope they have some degree of self-awareness but the facts suggest that
they don't..... "- Peter Kropotkin
. :evilfun:
"you don't know the value of facts and you don't know the value of the ‘TRUTH”... " -Peter Kropotkin :lol:
User avatar
WendyDarling
Heroine
 
Posts: 8311
Joined: Sat Sep 11, 2010 8:52 am
Location: Hades

Re: Remember kids, a pardon is an admission of guilt...

Postby Peter Kropotkin » Mon Dec 07, 2020 8:51 pm

WendyDarling wrote:PK cannot stop wishing ill on people. PK is evil.


K: wishing the Trumps going to prison is "wishing ill" .........
to the single worst president in American history.....

I can live with that....oh, by the way, who else have I "wished ill"
upon?


Kropotkin...
PK IS EVIL.....
Peter Kropotkin
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 8924
Joined: Thu Apr 07, 2005 1:47 am
Location: blue state

Re: Remember kids, a pardon is an admission of guilt...

Postby WendyDarling » Mon Dec 07, 2020 8:58 pm

Trump’s entire immediate family. PK is evil.
Member of The Coalition of Truth - member #2/2

"facts change all the time and not only that, they don't mean anything...."-Peter Kropotkin :evilfun:
"I can hope they have some degree of self-awareness but the facts suggest that
they don't..... "- Peter Kropotkin
. :evilfun:
"you don't know the value of facts and you don't know the value of the ‘TRUTH”... " -Peter Kropotkin :lol:
User avatar
WendyDarling
Heroine
 
Posts: 8311
Joined: Sat Sep 11, 2010 8:52 am
Location: Hades

Re: Remember kids, a pardon is an admission of guilt...

Postby Peter Kropotkin » Mon Dec 07, 2020 9:06 pm

WendyDarling wrote:Trump’s entire immediate family. PK is evil.



K: I may use that on my tombstone... PK IS EVIL.....

I'm liking it....

Kropotkin
PK IS EVIL.....
Peter Kropotkin
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 8924
Joined: Thu Apr 07, 2005 1:47 am
Location: blue state

Re: Remember kids, a pardon is an admission of guilt...

Postby Peter Kropotkin » Mon Dec 07, 2020 9:18 pm

the motion has been made...

Is PK evil?

all in favor say aye...
all opposed say nay...

they ayes have it....

Officially.......PK is EVIL...

Meeting adjourned until next week....

Kropotkin
PK IS EVIL.....
Peter Kropotkin
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 8924
Joined: Thu Apr 07, 2005 1:47 am
Location: blue state

Re: Remember kids, a pardon is an admission of guilt...

Postby obsrvr524 » Mon Dec 07, 2020 9:26 pm

"Remember kids, a pardon is an admission of guilt"

Fake News (again kids)
The primary purpose of the Presidents authority to grant pardons in the US was to counter political persecutions. And that is exactly how it was used in Gen Flynn's case.

It has nothing to do with being innocent or guilty. It has to do with corruption in the courts which in this case was outstandingly evident.
Member of The Coalition of Truth - member #1

              You have been observed.
    Though often tempted to encourage a dog to distinguish color I refuse to argue with him about it
obsrvr524
Philosopher
 
Posts: 1836
Joined: Thu Jul 11, 2019 9:03 am

Re: Remember kids, a pardon is an admission of guilt...

Postby Peter Kropotkin » Mon Dec 07, 2020 9:34 pm

obsrvr524 wrote:
"Remember kids, a pardon is an admission of guilt"

Fake News (again kids)
The primary purpose of the Presidents authority to grant pardons in the US was to counter political persecutions. And that is exactly how it was used in Gen Flynn's case.

It has nothing to do with being innocent or guilty. It has to do with corruption in the courts which in this case was outstandingly evident.



K: as you are part of the group that doesn't believe in facts, science, experts, reality,
medicine, technology, or honesty... I'm ok with pardons being guilty of a crime....

Kropotkin
PK IS EVIL.....
Peter Kropotkin
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 8924
Joined: Thu Apr 07, 2005 1:47 am
Location: blue state

Re: Remember kids, a pardon is an admission of guilt...

Postby obsrvr524 » Mon Dec 07, 2020 9:38 pm

Peter Kropotkin wrote:K: as you are part of the group that doesn't believe in facts, science, experts, reality,
medicine, technology, or honesty... I'm ok with pardons being guilty of a crime....

Kropotkin

As someone who can't recognize reality or facts and has become dependent upon never seeing it, you are not in good standing concerning almost anything you say - certainly not the guilt or innocence of people you have never met, talked with, or researched.

You are a fraud. And an obviously communist political pundit.
Member of The Coalition of Truth - member #1

              You have been observed.
    Though often tempted to encourage a dog to distinguish color I refuse to argue with him about it
obsrvr524
Philosopher
 
Posts: 1836
Joined: Thu Jul 11, 2019 9:03 am

Re: Remember kids, a pardon is an admission of guilt...

Postby Peter Kropotkin » Mon Dec 07, 2020 9:44 pm

obsrvr524 wrote:
Peter Kropotkin wrote:K: as you are part of the group that doesn't believe in facts, science, experts, reality,
medicine, technology, or honesty... I'm ok with pardons being guilty of a crime....

Kropotkin

As someone who can't recognize reality or facts and has become dependent upon never seeing it, you are not in good standing concerning almost anything you say - certainly not the guilt or innocence of people you have never met, talked with, or researched.

You are a fraud. And an obviously communist political pundit.


K: you know the great thing about being old..... you just don't give a shit
what other people think about you....... and as you are younger then my daughter..
I have a tough time taking you seriously...

Kropotkin
PK IS EVIL.....
Peter Kropotkin
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 8924
Joined: Thu Apr 07, 2005 1:47 am
Location: blue state

Re: Remember kids, a pardon is an admission of guilt...

Postby obsrvr524 » Mon Dec 07, 2020 9:49 pm

Peter Kropotkin wrote:K: you know the great thing about being old..... you just don't give a shit

That is evident with the endlessness of your lying.
Peter Kropotkin wrote:I have a tough time taking you seriously...

I am not asking you to take me seriously. I think that would shock your system, your bubble of belief and ego. So don't take me seriously.

But you might consider not taking yourself seriously either. As you said - you don't care. So stop caring enough to keep lying.
Member of The Coalition of Truth - member #1

              You have been observed.
    Though often tempted to encourage a dog to distinguish color I refuse to argue with him about it
obsrvr524
Philosopher
 
Posts: 1836
Joined: Thu Jul 11, 2019 9:03 am

Re: Remember kids, a pardon is an admission of guilt...

Postby WendyDarling » Mon Dec 07, 2020 9:52 pm

Pk is an evil, Commie, fraud. I’ll pay to make sure it’s all put on your tombstone. While we wait for your passing, how’s about I send you a t-shirt stating what you, PK, are proud of, “I am evil” which is exactly what you’d expect from an evil person, pride in the worst flaws possible. PM me a PO Box address and I’ll expedite it. Be your own warning.

Two votes are in, Obsrvr and Wendy. Shucks, that’s three votes since PK likes being evil.
Member of The Coalition of Truth - member #2/2

"facts change all the time and not only that, they don't mean anything...."-Peter Kropotkin :evilfun:
"I can hope they have some degree of self-awareness but the facts suggest that
they don't..... "- Peter Kropotkin
. :evilfun:
"you don't know the value of facts and you don't know the value of the ‘TRUTH”... " -Peter Kropotkin :lol:
User avatar
WendyDarling
Heroine
 
Posts: 8311
Joined: Sat Sep 11, 2010 8:52 am
Location: Hades

Re: Remember kids, a pardon is an admission of guilt...

Postby Peter Kropotkin » Mon Dec 07, 2020 10:47 pm

obsrvr524 wrote:
Peter Kropotkin wrote:K: you know the great thing about being old..... you just don't give a shit

That is evident with the endlessness of your lying.
Peter Kropotkin wrote:I have a tough time taking you seriously...

I am not asking you to take me seriously. I think that would shock your system, your bubble of belief and ego. So don't take me seriously.

But you might consider not taking yourself seriously either. As you said - you don't care. So stop caring enough to keep lying.


K: just another admission you are young, very, very young....

the great thing about getting old is not the lying, we don't care enough to lie....
one thing you discover is lying is a young person game..

you lie to get something.. be it sex, a job, a promotion, gifts, love among the things
we lie about when we are young...

but I am old, there isn't anything I need... I don't need to lie to get something
because at my age, I have everything I already need... I don't need to lie...
it is the truth we speak as we got older because frankly, to lie, one has to remember
the lie to make it work.... and my memory ain't what it used to be....
so I don't lie... I did lie when I was younger.. mainly to get things..
as you now lie to get things....

as far as any shock to my system, recall that I have had 3 different and
distinct political positions in my life... how many have you had?

I held each political belief for around 15 or 20 years or so... for example,
I was an anarchist until I was roughly 35.. which means I held that political
belief for roughly 15, 16 years.. give or take.. and that was 25 years ago...

for example, to call me an communist.. and that wouldn't be true..
I am not a communist but of course you have no idea what a communist really is,
so I look like a communist to you because you don't have a clue what a communist is....

Kropotkin
PK IS EVIL.....
Peter Kropotkin
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 8924
Joined: Thu Apr 07, 2005 1:47 am
Location: blue state

Re: Remember kids, a pardon is an admission of guilt...

Postby Karpel Tunnel » Mon Dec 07, 2020 11:05 pm

Remember kids, a pardon is an admission of guilt...
In most cases the pardon is for people who have been convicted of federal crimes. So, it is not an admission of guilt. Guilt has been determined or judged by the court. If you pardon them, you are not admitting they are guilty. You are simply reducing or eliminating the punishment. Now Ford's preemptive pardon of Nixon, where he was pardoned for any crimes he might have committed, isn't really an admission by Ford that Nixon committed crimes. He could claim he wanted to prevent the process of trying to convict a President of crimes he may or may not have committed, by making the guilt issue moot via pardon. SElf-pardons, of which there never has been one, I believe, could be framed similarly, though the self-interest makes the noble unifying the country and not benefitting out enemies type justifications ring even hollower to be sure.
Karpel Tunnel
Philosopher
 
Posts: 3625
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2018 12:26 pm

Re: Remember kids, a pardon is an admission of guilt...

Postby Pedro I Rengel » Mon Dec 07, 2020 11:08 pm

They tried to sue a member of a President-elect's cabinet for having meetings with foreign powers about what that president's policy would be, because the president hadn't been officially inaugurated yet.

Meanwhile John Kerry conducts a parallel foreign policy campaign with the likes of China, Iran and Ukraine, at least two of those actual enemies of the US, with impunity, and Biden is already meeting with heads of the EU.

Communists are a joke. You all would be ashamed of yourselves, if you had selves.
User avatar
Pedro I Rengel
ᛈᛖᛉᛖᛉ
 
Posts: 8792
Joined: Mon Feb 05, 2018 2:55 pm

Re: Remember kids, a pardon is an admission of guilt...

Postby Pedro I Rengel » Mon Dec 07, 2020 11:21 pm

The worst part is that I can't tell, say, someone like Mr R that he's a hypocrite, because that would require him knowing any of this, and I know he doesn't. He just knows CNN told him Flynn is guilty, of what he is not exactly sure, and Orange Man Bad.
User avatar
Pedro I Rengel
ᛈᛖᛉᛖᛉ
 
Posts: 8792
Joined: Mon Feb 05, 2018 2:55 pm

Re: Remember kids, a pardon is an admission of guilt...

Postby Peter Kropotkin » Tue Dec 08, 2020 12:46 am

WendyDarling wrote:Pk is an evil, Commie, fraud. I’ll pay to make sure it’s all put on your tombstone. While we wait for your passing, how’s about I send you a t-shirt stating what you, PK, are proud of, “I am evil” which is exactly what you’d expect from an evil person, pride in the worst flaws possible. PM me a PO Box address and I’ll expedite it. Be your own warning.

Two votes are in, Obsrvr and Wendy. Shucks, that’s three votes since PK likes being evil.


K: well dam... I am "EVIL PERSON" and all I get is a fucking lousy t-shirt....

well that is a serious rip off.....and I never said I like being "evil"..... I just don't care
a whit if you call me evil.... big difference....

as you are a follower of IQ45.. you wouldn't know an actual "evil person" if they
bit your ass and announced they were evil....

because if you did understand, truly understand "EVIL" you would renounced IQ45 and
all he stands for...

Kropotkin
PK IS EVIL.....
Peter Kropotkin
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 8924
Joined: Thu Apr 07, 2005 1:47 am
Location: blue state

Re: Remember kids, a pardon is an admission of guilt...

Postby Mr Reasonable » Tue Dec 08, 2020 3:47 am

sdny coming for them
You see...a pimp's love is very different from that of a square.


Dating a stripper is like eating a noisy bag of chips in church. Everyone looks at you in disgust, but deep down they want some too.
User avatar
Mr Reasonable
resident contrarian
 
Posts: 28442
Joined: Sat Mar 17, 2007 8:54 am
Location: pimping a hole straight through the stratosphere itself

Re: Remember kids, a pardon is an admission of guilt...

Postby Peter Kropotkin » Tue Dec 08, 2020 4:56 pm

I just found this....
Burdick V. United States
236 U.S. 79 1915.....

whereas the United States Supreme court did decide that a pardon was
an admission of guilt.. and acceptance of said pardon is a and I quote,
"confession of guilt" so legally, a pardon is an admission of guilt as
decided by the United States Supreme court.....

Kropotkin
PK IS EVIL.....
Peter Kropotkin
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 8924
Joined: Thu Apr 07, 2005 1:47 am
Location: blue state

Re: Remember kids, a pardon is an admission of guilt...

Postby obsrvr524 » Tue Dec 08, 2020 7:15 pm

Peter Kropotkin wrote:I just found this....
Burdick V. United States
236 U.S. 79 1915.....

whereas the United States Supreme court did decide that a pardon was
an admission of guilt.. and acceptance of said pardon is a and I quote,
"confession of guilt" so legally, a pardon is an admission of guilt as
decided by the United States Supreme court.....

Kropotkin

Fake News (yet again)

Mr Trump's pardon was "a pardon of innocence".
Definition - pardon of innocence
A pardon based on actual innocence exonerates an individual of the crime and erases the. conviction.


Gen Flynn had already admitted guilt to lying to the FBI. But then it was revealed that the admission was "under duress" - his family being threatened by a rogue DOJ and FBI team.
du·ress (do͝o-rĕs′, dyo͝o-)
n.
1. a. Compulsion by threat or violence; coercion: confessed under duress.

The US DOJ dropped the charges but judge Emmet Sullivan, opposing the law, refused to stop what had become an obvious political persecution.

As it appeared that judge Sullivan was going to continue the persecution in perpetuity Gen Flynn accepted Mr Trump's pardon of innocence so as to prevent further persecution - duress.

Back in 1914 Justice McKenna presented the opinion:
the differences between legislative immunity and a pardon. They are substantial. The latter carries an imputation of guilt; acceptance a confession of it.

The idea being that you cannot be pardoned from something that you didn't do so if you accept the pardon, you must be accepting the guilt.

But does that apply to political persecution cases where guilt is maliciously created under duress?

Again Gen Flynn was facing the duress of political persecution except this time from the judge who was basically saying, "I am going to keep you in court until either you run out of funds for a defense (he had already been bankrupted) or we get a new DOJ who will prosecute you the way I want."

So again under duress he was faced with having to accept a guilty implication in order to stop the political persecution. But his testimony the whole time was that he was actually innocent.

In cases of political persecution, an admission of guilt is always under duress so is not evidence of guilt in a court.


Maybe the old man needs to learn to study things before preaching to us "kids".
Member of The Coalition of Truth - member #1

              You have been observed.
    Though often tempted to encourage a dog to distinguish color I refuse to argue with him about it
obsrvr524
Philosopher
 
Posts: 1836
Joined: Thu Jul 11, 2019 9:03 am

Re: Remember kids, a pardon is an admission of guilt...

Postby Peter Kropotkin » Tue Dec 08, 2020 7:25 pm

obsrvr524 wrote:
Peter Kropotkin wrote:I just found this....
Burdick V. United States
236 U.S. 79 1915.....

whereas the United States Supreme court did decide that a pardon was
an admission of guilt.. and acceptance of said pardon is a and I quote,
"confession of guilt" so legally, a pardon is an admission of guilt as
decided by the United States Supreme court.....

Kropotkin

Fake News (yet again)

K: yeah, a United States Supreme court decision is "fake news"
my goodness... you really are insane...

If you can't accept a Supreme court decision, you are one lost puppy....

Kropotkin
PK IS EVIL.....
Peter Kropotkin
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 8924
Joined: Thu Apr 07, 2005 1:47 am
Location: blue state

Re: Remember kids, a pardon is an admission of guilt...

Postby obsrvr524 » Tue Dec 08, 2020 7:30 pm

Oh I see. Your problem is that you only read the first line of posts and probably only the headlines of media articles (intentionally misleading).

Maybe that comes with aging decline. :-?
Member of The Coalition of Truth - member #1

              You have been observed.
    Though often tempted to encourage a dog to distinguish color I refuse to argue with him about it
obsrvr524
Philosopher
 
Posts: 1836
Joined: Thu Jul 11, 2019 9:03 am

Re: Remember kids, a pardon is an admission of guilt...

Postby Pedro I Rengel » Tue Dec 08, 2020 7:44 pm

The poor boy was never asked to think before.
User avatar
Pedro I Rengel
ᛈᛖᛉᛖᛉ
 
Posts: 8792
Joined: Mon Feb 05, 2018 2:55 pm

Re: Remember kids, a pardon is an admission of guilt...

Postby Mr Reasonable » Wed Dec 09, 2020 3:25 am

u guys legit trying to overturn a scotus opinion with a fucking entry from dictionary dot com im dying over here
You see...a pimp's love is very different from that of a square.


Dating a stripper is like eating a noisy bag of chips in church. Everyone looks at you in disgust, but deep down they want some too.
User avatar
Mr Reasonable
resident contrarian
 
Posts: 28442
Joined: Sat Mar 17, 2007 8:54 am
Location: pimping a hole straight through the stratosphere itself

Re: Remember kids, a pardon is an admission of guilt...

Postby Karpel Tunnel » Wed Dec 09, 2020 12:14 pm

Peter Kropotkin wrote:
obsrvr524 wrote:
Peter Kropotkin wrote:I just found this....
Burdick V. United States
236 U.S. 79 1915.....

whereas the United States Supreme court did decide that a pardon was
an admission of guilt.. and acceptance of said pardon is a and I quote,
"confession of guilt" so legally, a pardon is an admission of guilt as
decided by the United States Supreme court.....

Kropotkin

Fake News (yet again)

K: yeah, a United States Supreme court decision is "fake news"
my goodness... you really are insane...

If you can't accept a Supreme court decision, you are one lost puppy....

Kropotkin
Actually the fake news aspect of it is not looking at the wider context.

For example....
Myth No. 4
Pardons are only for guilty people; accepting one is an admission of guilt.

In 1915, the Supreme Court wrote in Burdick v. United States that a pardon “carries an imputation of guilt; acceptance a confession of it.” Over the years, many have come to see a necessary relationship between a pardon and guilt. Ford carried the Burdick quote in his wallet, defending the Nixon pardon by noting that it established Nixon’s guilt. More recently, MSNBC host Ari Melber taunted Arpaio by saying he had admitted he was guilty when he accepted Trump’s pardon.
AD

But Burdick was about a different issue: the ability to turn down a pardon. The language about imputing and confessing guilt was just an aside — what lawyers call dicta. The court meant that, as a practical matter, because pardons make people look guilty, a recipient might not want to accept one. But pardons have no formal, legal effect of declaring guilt.

Indeed, in rare cases pardons are used to exonerate people. This was Trump’s rationale for posthumously pardoning boxer Jack Johnson, the victim of a racially based railroading in 1913. Ford pardoned Iva Toguri d’Aquino (World War II’s “Tokyo Rose”) after “60 Minutes” revealed that she was an innocent victim of prosecutors who suborned perjured testimony in her treason case. President George H.W. Bush pardoned Caspar Weinberger because he thought the former defense secretary, indicted in the Iran-contra affair, was a victim of “the criminalization of policy differences.” If the president pardons you because he thinks you are innocent, what guilt could accepting that pardon possibly admit?
Karpel Tunnel
Philosopher
 
Posts: 3625
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2018 12:26 pm

Next

Return to Current Events



Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users