Shouldn't Trump use the Military to Stay in Office???

Discussion of the recent unfolding of history.

Re: Shouldn't Trump use the Military to Stay in Office???

Postby obsrvr524 » Wed Dec 02, 2020 4:02 pm

Mowk wrote:Military power, that is fascist.

That depends on how it is used. Every government uses military when things get really bad.

Mowk wrote:You think if you give President elect Joe Biden a made up name that improves your stock in truth to self? Where does that theme stem from? Ideas and notions of "them and they"?

You can consider it a counter-influence to an insidious influence.

Mowk wrote:A lie; to be a lie, it must be an intentional subjugation of an individuals personally true experiences.

That is a lie. There is a difference between a lie and a liar. A liar has intent to tell what is a lie. The statement is that lie. The intent in saying it doesn't change what it is. "Dogs give birth to ducks" if told as a supposed truth, is a lie. The statement is a lie. The person who said it might or might not be a liar.

Anything else is enabling liars to have greater influence. It is creating a totally untrustable society. It allows anyone to simply say, "oh I didn't know it was a lie as I spread it far and wide as truth". Very corrupt people benefit. Hidin, Lyin Biden benefits.

Mowk wrote:When someone believes, and their expression is, of a belief, they can't be lying.

If a person says, "I believe..." he is probably not lying. He is making a truthful statement. But if that same person makes a statement of fact, not mere belief, and the statement is false, a lie, the person lied. To be considered a "liar" that person must be identified as a person who regularly tells lies.

A lie doesn't stop being a lie merely because the person saying it didn't realize it was a lie.

Mowk wrote:Trump hasn't lied, he just doesn't experience the truth. He won in 2016 by a landslide, yet he lost in this election by a greater margin. That is not being cognizant of the present, taking place all around you.

You would make a poor observer of Mr Trump. The reason he hasn't lied is because what he has said by his own intent is different than how some people choose to interpret it. If you try to tell a clever joke but someone hates you, they misrepresent what you said as a serious comment - not giving credit to the intended levity. They tell a lie about what you said even if they directly quote you if out of context.
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Re: Shouldn't Trump use the Military to Stay in Office???

Postby Gloominary » Wed Dec 02, 2020 4:58 pm

I don't know if dems stole the election, I haven't done enough investigating of my own.
I know what the partisan media says.
So far most courts appear to have rejected Trump's claims, but Trump has a lot of enemies on both the left, and the right like your Bushs, Romneys and the never Trumpers, so it'd be interesting to find out on what grounds Trump's claims were rejected, the methodology they used, and where some of these courts' loyalties lie.
Many republicans who did embrace Trump did so begrudgingly, they'd be happy to see him leave.
I think it's fair to say most of the political and economic establishment are anti-Trump, whereas the people are roughly 50/50, some love him, some hate him.
The establishment is far more anti-Trump than the people, and that can lead to biases, even in the courts.

Nonetheless here's a question: let's say purely for the sake of argument, dems and neocons did steal the election from him, but there's no way he could prove it in court, because the courts were as rigged as the election was.
Would Trump have grounds for doing whatever it takes to retain power, including using military force, or should he leave office anyway and hope the truth will finally come out someday months or years from now.
And what of Trump's followers, purely for the sake of argument, putting all arguments about the (un)likelihood of the courts being rigged aside, let's say his supports had good reason to believe the courts were biased, would they be justified in taking up arms to prevent Biden's appointment?
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Re: Shouldn't Trump use the Military to Stay in Office???

Postby Urwrongx1000 » Wed Dec 02, 2020 6:09 pm

If the United States is fatally compromised by a foreign power (CCP), and a US Election is undermined (treason), then isn't that Reason-enough to hold office by force, against a foreign enemy (CCP) and domestic (those willing to cheat a Federal Democratic election)?
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Re: Shouldn't Trump use the Military to Stay in Office???

Postby Urwrongx1000 » Wed Dec 02, 2020 6:26 pm

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Re: Shouldn't Trump use the Military to Stay in Office???

Postby obsrvr524 » Wed Dec 02, 2020 6:27 pm

Gloominary wrote:let's say purely for the sake of argument, dems and neocons did steal the election from him, but there's no way he could prove it in court, because the courts were as rigged as the election was.
Would Trump have grounds for doing whatever it takes to retain power, including using the military, or should he still leave office anyway and hope that the truth will finally come out some day months or years from now.

I believe there is a limit to what Mr Trump should do. What Mr Trump believes the truth to be is only partially relevant. His obligation is to defend the Constitution and Republic. If he believes the Constitutional procedures are being violated, he is stuck with a serious problem. All public officials face that possibility.

At minimum if Mr Trump intends to resist what he believes to be a fraud on the public, he must convince as many heads of departments and military leaders that he is right. If he does not do that much, he faces the very high probability of being excoriated and possibly imprisoned. So if he cannot do that much, he should leave office and perhaps take up the issue through a different tactic.

If he manages to convince enough heads of departments, he should use their willingness to use existing laws to reveal the issue. That is what he is doing right now - going through the process (with only a minimum of people who have seen the evidence that he has seen).

The trickiest position is when half of the heads of departments (and military) are willing to support his efforts and half are not. That is the intended situation to create by America's enemies. That is the situation most likely to create the maximum disruption, even civil war with maximum damage.

An American civil war is a win for China, Iran, Russia, and every authoritarian country across the world. But so is a socialist fraudulent election.

What Americans seem to not understand is the severe impact this US election has on the entire world. It is NOT merely about the USA. If the USA becomes socialist, immediately throughout the entire world authoritarian communism takes over. Orwell's narrative becomes a reality - the entire world becomes a reflection of communist China. Any effort to learn of truth anywhere in the world will be punished.

And due to that situation any civil war in the US draws attention, influence, and participation from other nations.

What should be done by an exiting US President in the face of clear and present world domination? He is not merely obligated to defend his own national constitution and republic, but he must also consider the larger picture of an irreversible domination.

What would you do whether President or not?
Last edited by obsrvr524 on Wed Dec 02, 2020 6:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Shouldn't Trump use the Military to Stay in Office???

Postby Urwrongx1000 » Wed Dec 02, 2020 6:30 pm

https://www.yahoo.com/news/trump-threat ... 23066.html

Trump called Section 230 “a serious threat to our National Security & Election Integrity,” adding, “Therefore, if the very dangerous & unfair Section 230 is not completely terminated as part of the National Defense Authorization Act (NDAA), I will be forced to unequivocally VETO the Bill.”


This "No Evidence" bullshit, censoring Twitter, Facebook, Youtube, Google, etc. on top of "fact-checking" (unconstitutional) as a means of hiding and diverting searches, is basically proof of Conspiracy in accordance with this national Election Fraud.


Hopefully the Supreme Court can rule against it soon, and then implicate the Tech Oligarchs, and bring them down too. Censorship is fundamentally contra to the US Constitution First Amendment.
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Re: Shouldn't Trump use the Military to Stay in Office???

Postby Urwrongx1000 » Wed Dec 02, 2020 8:51 pm

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Re: Shouldn't Trump use the Military to Stay in Office???

Postby Meno_ » Wed Dec 02, 2020 9:04 pm

Urwrongx1000 wrote:https://www.yahoo.com/news/trump-threatens-defense-veto-over-035823066.html

Trump called Section 230 “a serious threat to our National Security & Election Integrity,” adding, “Therefore, if the very dangerous & unfair Section 230 is not completely terminated as part of the National Defense Authorization Act (NDAA), I will be forced to unequivocally VETO the Bill.”


This "No Evidence" bullshit, censoring Twitter, Facebook, Youtube, Google, etc. on top of "fact-checking" (unconstitutional) as a means of hiding and diverting searches, is basically proof of Conspiracy in accordance with this national Election Fraud.


Hopefully the Supreme Court can rule against it soon, and then implicate the Tech Oligarchs, and bring them down too. Censorship is fundamentally contra to the US Constitution First Amendment.




Since there is both procedures ( Constitutional amendment) and precedent to solve this problem,
the Supreme Court should be able to see through it, by means of objective lack of bias.

Intellgence, of various kinds can be of evidentary value, in a fair assessment of all kinds of political situations, irrespective of opinion, innuendo , in the name of National Security.

The unlikely occurrence of a divided military authority, executive congressional oversight will be of evidentary value, to the High Court, as well


Have we learned anything from presidential assasinations, state cessesions, McCarthyism, Watergate , Teapot Dome, Iran-Contra, to bear on the current predicament?
Although the answer may not be that obvious, a further underlying context may be revealing.*

The answer to these ard well known and documented.


*That 'Capital' doesen't draw a clear line vis a vis Democratic adherence to the principals expressed in the Bill of Rights, it can be deduced that the inferences drawn setting objective criteria are no mere rhetorical tricks.

Hobbs vs. Rousseau may or may not seem relevant fir lack of such original transcendent objects. But that was not convincing or foreseeable to the Founding. Fathers of the 18th century. The receding value of the Magna Carta and the succeeding value of the US Constiution, premiered the new hope vested, as bearing sufficient reason to belief of Rousseau's success in in Congressional success in sustaining the unity between levels of societal integration.

The question of the high rolling abusive evolution , marked by across the board corruption, probably
was not a primary concern at that time.

Congressional oversight did not conceive of basic frailties of common sense that may get out of hand somewhere in the future.

Hence memory did not serve well the generation's to come dwindling aspirations.

Hence, here we are today, with no hand in the aud, to amend this basic fraility.

The so called constitutional havoc, has also impresses most , as something like, all to do about nothing.

The actual return of this theme of a national socialism, is caught not in a dielectical struggle, but in a semantic one, with it's array of coming attractions. All of it has been factored in to the patchwork of institutional covers, masking as oversight.
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Re: Shouldn't Trump use the Military to Stay in Office???

Postby Fixed Cross » Fri Dec 04, 2020 4:11 am

obsrvr524 wrote:The trickiest position is when half of the heads of departments (and military) are willing to support his efforts and half are not. That is the intended situation to create by America's enemies. That is the situation most likely to create the maximum disruption, even civil war with maximum damage.

Well, the ideal scenario for the Chinese and Iranians was, of course, a smooth buy. It would have been best for them if Trump hadnt won by a gigantic landslide, so that they wouldnt have had to pull the very visible ballot fraud on top of the sleeker voting machine fraud. Trumps 20 + rallies in the last week of the campaign came unexpected to them.

An American civil war is a win for China, Iran, Russia, and every authoritarian country across the world. But so is a socialist fraudulent election.

The problem with the latter option is that there are too many witnesses to the crime. With previous election frauds (like the 2012 Florida count) there was the option of waving it away and saying "better luck next time". Now, 50 if not 100 million people would know that there will not be a next time. So allowing the steal would pretty much certainly lead to civil war, at least to the end of the American state and society.
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Re: Shouldn't Trump use the Military to Stay in Office???

Postby Urwrongx1000 » Fri Dec 04, 2020 7:43 am

Right on, FC
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Re: Shouldn't Trump use the Military to Stay in Office???

Postby Mowk » Fri Dec 04, 2020 8:25 am

[quote] Mowk wrote:
The military will have no obligation to follow his orders after Jan 20, 2021. Jan 21 comes along Biden says remove the perp and the perp gets removed.

That is not true in the US. No matter who is President (or in any other office) every official in the US is swarn to defend the Constitution against ALL enemies (including even a President or a would-be President), foreign AND domestic.

The military's obligation is not "obey the President" but "defend the US Constitution".

If Mr Trump commanded them to do something against the Constitution, they are obligated to disobey. The same goes for Mr Hidin, Lyin Biden.

It isn't cute, how you reference President Elect Joe Biden.

What do you think happens to a soldier who doesn't follow orders? Theory is not practice. You say the practice is common. Fire the person who you perceive isn't being loyal to you and fuck the rest. Trump has done that well too.
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Re: Shouldn't Trump use the Military to Stay in Office???

Postby Urwrongx1000 » Fri Dec 04, 2020 11:07 am

It seems more valid than ever that Military involvement is reasonable, and that criminality is being exposed to the level of Treason.

The basis for this is widespread Defrauding the American public, undermining the Federal Election, in concert with systemic DNC and Establishment corruption.

For example, the fact that MSM refuses to cover, investigate, and expose voter fraud, demonstrates their complicity in these matters.


We have heard "No Evidence!" for weeks now, while they refused to look at the evidence from the start, refused to investigate, and basically admitted to their position.

The Liberal-Left and their Trump-Derangement-Syndrome has motivated them to this point, that they are more-than-willing to Defraud an election, and commit crime.

As such, they must not be allowed anywhere near the White House or control/command of the US Military.
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Re: Shouldn't Trump use the Military to Stay in Office???

Postby Peter Kropotkin » Fri Dec 04, 2020 11:20 am

Urwrongx1000 wrote:It seems more valid than ever that Military involvement is reasonable, and that criminality is being exposed to the level of Treason.

The basis for this is widespread Defrauding the American public, undermining the Federal Election, in concert with systemic DNC and Establishment corruption.

For example, the fact that MSM refuses to cover, investigate, and expose voter fraud, demonstrates their complicity in these matters.


We have heard "No Evidence!" for weeks now, while they refused to look at the evidence from the start, refused to investigate, and basically admitted to their position.

The Liberal-Left and their Trump-Derangement-Syndrome has motivated them to this point, that they are more-than-willing to Defraud an election, and commit crime.

As such, they must not be allowed anywhere near the White House or control/command of the US Military.


K: two things, first of all, the military has already stated they will not get involved
in any type of political dispute and I can't wait to see your temper tantrum on Jan
20, 2021 when Biden is sworn in as President of the United States....

I will, of course, be watching on TV and saying "what a good day in the neighborhood
it is"

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Re: Shouldn't Trump use the Military to Stay in Office???

Postby Urwrongx1000 » Fri Dec 04, 2020 11:25 am

Courts and Hearings are exposing your fraud. You and the other Commies have shown your colors. You are a traitor to the US Republic.
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Re: Shouldn't Trump use the Military to Stay in Office???

Postby obsrvr524 » Fri Dec 04, 2020 12:43 pm

Mowk wrote:It isn't cute, how you reference President Elect Joe Biden.

He is not "President Elect".
There is video proof of a long history of lying - a true liar. Once having to drop out because of it.
And obviously he has been hiding from the people and press during his supposed campaign.

So it happens to be a proven FACT that Mr Joseph R Biden is a Hider and a Liar.

He is also a known criminal (not merely rumored). And you want him to be your President.

Or is it that you want Kamala Harris as your President? - virtually guaranteed.
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Re: Shouldn't Trump use the Military to Stay in Office???

Postby Mr Reasonable » Sat Dec 05, 2020 8:06 am

Urwrongx1000 wrote:Courts and Hearings are exposing your fraud. You and the other Commies have shown your colors. You are a traitor to the US Republic.


which court?
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Re: Shouldn't Trump use the Military to Stay in Office???

Postby Urwrongx1000 » Sat Dec 05, 2020 8:50 am

all of em
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Re: Shouldn't Trump use the Military to Stay in Office???

Postby Mr Reasonable » Sat Dec 05, 2020 9:22 am

lol all the cases have been thrown out because ur guys arent bringing any actual evidence
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Re: Shouldn't Trump use the Military to Stay in Office???

Postby Urwrongx1000 » Sat Dec 05, 2020 9:43 am

theres plenty of evidence, not my fault u ignore it
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Re: Shouldn't Trump use the Military to Stay in Office???

Postby Mr Reasonable » Sat Dec 05, 2020 9:54 am

u keep using that word i dont think u know what it means
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Re: Shouldn't Trump use the Military to Stay in Office???

Postby Urwrongx1000 » Sat Dec 05, 2020 10:01 am

signed affidavits are evidence, more free law lessons for u, ur getting a deal today
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Re: Shouldn't Trump use the Military to Stay in Office???

Postby Mr Reasonable » Sat Dec 05, 2020 10:07 am

if i sign an affidavit that says u are a commie is that evidence that u are a commie?
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Re: Shouldn't Trump use the Military to Stay in Office???

Postby Urwrongx1000 » Sat Dec 05, 2020 10:15 am

its evidence that ull go to jail if its not true, im a capitalist so there u go
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Re: Shouldn't Trump use the Military to Stay in Office???

Postby Mr Reasonable » Sat Dec 05, 2020 10:17 am

Urwrongx1000 wrote:its evidence that ull go to jail if its not true, im a capitalist so there u go


no i have an affidavit that says u are a commie now u have to prove u r not is that how this works
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Re: Shouldn't Trump use the Military to Stay in Office???

Postby Urwrongx1000 » Sat Dec 05, 2020 10:19 am

hey if u wanna go to jail, be my guest, im capitalist so have a nice trip
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