November 3rd and Beyond

Discussion of the recent unfolding of history.

Which scenario do you think is most likely?

A)
0
No votes
B)
0
No votes
C)
1
25%
D)
2
50%
E)
0
No votes
F)
1
25%
 
Total votes : 4

November 3rd and Beyond

Postby Gloominary » Sun Nov 01, 2020 3:26 pm

A) Biden wins both the popular and electoral vote by a wide margin.
Trump concedes and a peaceful transition of power occurs.
Biden doesn't lock the country down, impose mandatory masks, a mandatory Covid vaccine when it becomes available or any other radical leftwing policies.
For better or worse, the country gradually returns to something like the political and socioeconomic normalcy of previous administrations; the Obamas, Bushs, Clintons, etcetera.

B) Biden wins both the popular and electoral vote by a wide margin.
Trump concedes and a peaceful transition of power occurs.
However, shortly thereafter Biden locks down the country, imposes mandatory masks, a mandatory Covid vaccine when it becomes available and other radical leftwing policies, plunging the economy into a deep depression.
Mass civil unrest ensues, especially among republicans and in red states, prompting Biden to declare martial law.
Some red states like Texas attempt to secede from the union, the military fractures into two or more warring factions as 3%ers, Oath Keepers and other rightwing militias do battle with Antifa and BLM on the streets.

C) Biden apparently wins both the popular and electoral vote but by a narrow margin.
Trump refuses to concede, citing what he and his lawyers claim is mass voter fraud.
The dispute goes all the way to the supreme court.
After some deliberation and examination of the alleged fraud, the supreme court, now comprising 6 republicans and only 3 democrats, declares Trump the victor.
Nancy Pelosi, John Podesta and the other dems refuse to concede, claiming the supreme court and republican party have been compromised, infiltrated and subverted by Russians.
They hold their own inauguration, declaring Biden, or Pelosi to be the real president.
Washington, Oregon and California attempt to secede from the union and civil war ensues.

D) Trump wins the electoral vote but loses the popular vote by a wide margin.
Dems refuse to concede on the grounds that a 2nd Trump term would be an absolute disaster and he doesn't have the mandate of the people, the west coast attempts to secede and civil war breaks out.

E) Trump wins the electoral vote and either loses the popular vote by a narrow margin or wins it too.
Dems concede.
Trump maintains many of his policies while expanding others.
Dems and neocons continue to resist them, promoting their conspiracy theories and the odd riot breaks out, but the people have spoken, America, and perhaps the rest of the world too are fed up with globalism and for better or worse, increasingly turn to more isolationist, nativist and protectionist policies and leadership, to a multipolar world where America, the UN and other internationalist/multinationalist institutions/corporations are no longer the center.

F) Other; please explain.
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Re: November 3rd and Beyond

Postby Meno_ » Sun Nov 01, 2020 4:01 pm

.
Last edited by Meno_ on Sun Nov 01, 2020 4:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: November 3rd and Beyond

Postby Meno_ » Sun Nov 01, 2020 4:02 pm

The international state of diplomatic cohesion falls apart in response to the civil war raging in the United States , and other countries also break into internal strife.

Suddenly, Iran attacks Israel in surprise , and Israel retaliates with nuclear force

President Trump , without Congressional approval attacks Iran and North Korea.
After that WWW commences, and full employment is restored.in the US, as most states regain stability. President Trump attains FDR stature, and heads the allied countries against the various provocations occurring world wide.

China declares war on the allies and Russia remains on the sidelines, staging some provocation.

The the Middle East is in flames, Covid is raging, the US attacks California, deposing it's governor.

Roseanne Barr becomes the new Hanoi Jane, as ordinary citizens take to the streets
The US is overwhelmed by internal dissent, and the Antichrist declares himself.


The Chinese Flu rages on, and the Tribulation assumes biblical proportions.



Note: this is a description of the worst possible scenario.
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Re: November 3rd and Beyond

Postby WendyDarling » Sun Nov 01, 2020 7:36 pm

F) Trump wins both the electoral and popular vote by a landslide but Biden refuses to concede claiming mail in voter fraud and suppression until the Supreme Court announces Trump’s victory in mid December.
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Re: November 3rd and Beyond

Postby promethean75 » Sun Nov 01, 2020 7:46 pm

G) intelligent extraterrestrial lifeforms from a potassium depleted planet enter earth's orbit, announce they're presence in a peaceful manner, and attempt to communicate with world leaders. Trump imposes tariffs on the aliens, pisses them off, and then they destroy everything... starting with the trump tower.
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Re: November 3rd and Beyond

Postby iambiguous » Sun Nov 01, 2020 8:13 pm

promethean75 wrote:G) intelligent extraterrestrial lifeforms from a potassium depleted planet enter earth's orbit, announce they're presence in a peaceful manner, and attempt to communicate with world leaders. Trump imposes tariffs on the aliens, pisses them off, and then they destroy everything... starting with the trump tower.


And then there's the rest of the alphabet. And, after that, the numbers.
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

Start here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=176529
Then here: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=185296
And here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=194382
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Re: November 3rd and Beyond

Postby Gloominary » Mon Nov 02, 2020 12:20 am

Meno_ wrote:The international state of diplomatic cohesion falls apart in response to the civil war raging in the United States , and other countries also break into internal strife.

Yes, if America was mired in civil war, countries formerly kept in check by America, like Russia, Iran, China and North Korea would be freer to assert themselves.
Russia could try to retake some of its former Soviet territories in eastern Europe (the Baltics, Belarus and Ukraine), the caucuses and central Asia, altho western Europe and its allies, Canada and Australia may try to counteract them.
Iran could get together with its allies and attack Israel, altho it's unclear if they would, or who would prevail if they did, as Israel has nukes and thanks in large part to the US, one of the most well equipped and well trained armies in the world, as well as other allies in the west.
China could try to take Kashmir, and Singapore and Taiwan, as it sees them as fundamentally Chinese, as mere extensions of itself.
North Korea could attack South Korea or Japan.
Wannabe states like ISIS could also try to reassert themselves in Mesopotamia and the Levant.

The world order we had for the last 75 years would collapse, and it would probably take decades before a new order emerges, that is if civilization itself didn't completely collapse first.
Would China emerge as the number one military and socioeconomic power, or someone else, perhaps the EU, or would power have to be shared evenly?

Suddenly, Ira in surprise , and Israel retaliates with nuclear force

President Trump , without Congressional approval attacks Iran and North Korea.
After that WWW commences, and full employment is restored.in the US, as most states regain stability. President Trump attains FDR stature, and heads the allied countries against the various provocations occurring world wide.

China declares war on the allies and Russia remains on the sidelines, staging some provocation.

The the Middle East is in flames, Covid is raging, the US attacks California, deposing it's governor.

Roseanne Barr becomes the new Hanoi Jane, as ordinary citizens take to the streets
The US is overwhelmed by internal dissent, and the Antichrist declares himself.


The Chinese Flu rages on, and the Tribulation assumes biblical proportions.



Note: this is a description of the worst possible scenario.

Of course no one knows who'd win a 2nd American civil war, if anyone.
Trump could win, dems and neocons could.
Whoever won could reshape America and, if America somehow managed to ultimately maintain their military and socioeconomic supremacy, the wider world more as they see fit.
Would Trump restore democracy after winning, would Pelosi and the dems?
Foreign nations could get involved, indirectly or directly.
Of course right leaning nations would be more inclined to help republicans and left leaning dems.
It could end up in a stalemate, where the union dissolves and balkanizes.
The west coast could permanently split from the union, becoming the Pacific States of America, if you will.
Likewise the northeast coast could permanently split, becoming the Atlantic States.
The rest of the states may remain loyal to Trump and the republicans.
On the other hand, the US could completely collapse, leaving it wide open to be conquered by Russia, China, the EU or all three.
If the EU were to conquer the US, they would probably try to restore it to something like what it was, but of course the EU would wear the pants in this new relationship.

No matter what happens, even if there's no civil unrest let alone civil war, America's standing in the world is waning, and it's not all Trump's fault, I don't think it's his fault at all, it's because of America's many blunders abroad and at home over the last couple of decades.
I think we're going to see the US, the EU and the western world at large turn increasingly inward, needing to resolve our own problems, less able to be solve, or give the rest of the world problems.
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Re: November 3rd and Beyond

Postby obsrvr524 » Mon Nov 02, 2020 12:27 am

Finally someone who actually knows something about the bigger picture.
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Re: November 3rd and Beyond

Postby promethean75 » Mon Nov 02, 2020 12:31 am

Bro gloominary's a beast. If encyclopedic knowledge of political science was journalism, gloom would be ILP's Walter Cronkite.
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Re: November 3rd and Beyond

Postby obsrvr524 » Mon Nov 02, 2020 12:35 am

promethean75 wrote:Bro gloominary's a beast. If encyclopedic knowledge of political science was journalism, gloom would be ILP's Walter Cronkite.

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Re: November 3rd and Beyond

Postby iambiguous » Mon Nov 02, 2020 3:04 am

How about this "scenario":

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/11/01/opin ... e=Homepage

''The weeks following the election could very well be the most dangerous weeks in this country since the Civil War.

'If Donald Trump should lose, he may well not concede. And he will still be president, with all the power that bestows. His supporters will likely be seething, thinking that the election has been stolen. These are seeds he has been sowing for months.

'Trump will have command of the military, the Justice Department and part of the intelligence apparatus.

'He already knows that the Manhattan district attorney, Cyrus R. Vance Jr., is investigating his dodgy finances. Trump knows he could face charges as soon as he leaves office — and he won’t be federally pardoned.

'He has tasted power and can’t imagine a world in which it was withdrawn from him. A loss would be a supremely embarrassing rebuke, the first sitting president not to win re-election in 28 years.

'The pandemic will still be raging, but Trump, who has consistently downplayed it and tragically mismanaged it, will feel absolutely no obligation to contain it.

'He will be wounded, afraid and dangerous.'
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

Start here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=176529
Then here: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=185296
And here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=194382
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Re: November 3rd and Beyond

Postby Gloominary » Mon Nov 02, 2020 3:59 pm

Gloominary wrote:
Meno_ wrote:The international state of diplomatic cohesion falls apart in response to the civil war raging in the United States , and other countries also break into internal strife.

Yes, if America was mired in civil war, countries formerly kept in check by America, like Russia, Iran, China and North Korea would be freer to assert themselves.
Russia could try to retake some of its former Soviet territories in eastern Europe (the Baltics, Belarus and Ukraine), the caucuses and central Asia, altho western Europe and its allies, Canada and Australia may try to counteract them.
Iran could get together with its allies and attack Israel, altho it's unclear if they would, or who would prevail if they did, as Israel has nukes and thanks in large part to the US, one of the most well equipped and well trained armies in the world, as well as other allies in the west.
China could try to take Kashmir, and Singapore and Taiwan, as it sees them as fundamentally Chinese, as mere extensions of itself.
North Korea could attack South Korea or Japan.
Wannabe states like ISIS could also try to reassert themselves in Mesopotamia and the Levant.

The world order we had for the last 75 years would collapse, and it would probably take decades before a new order emerges, that is if civilization itself didn't completely collapse first.
Would China emerge as the number one military and socioeconomic power, or someone else, perhaps the EU, or would power have to be shared evenly?

Suddenly, Ira in surprise , and Israel retaliates with nuclear force

President Trump , without Congressional approval attacks Iran and North Korea.
After that WWW commences, and full employment is restored.in the US, as most states regain stability. President Trump attains FDR stature, and heads the allied countries against the various provocations occurring world wide.

China declares war on the allies and Russia remains on the sidelines, staging some provocation.

The the Middle East is in flames, Covid is raging, the US attacks California, deposing it's governor.

Roseanne Barr becomes the new Hanoi Jane, as ordinary citizens take to the streets
The US is overwhelmed by internal dissent, and the Antichrist declares himself.


The Chinese Flu rages on, and the Tribulation assumes biblical proportions.



Note: this is a description of the worst possible scenario.

Of course no one knows who'd win a 2nd American civil war, if anyone.
Trump could win, dems and neocons could.
Whoever won could reshape America and, if America somehow managed to ultimately maintain their military and socioeconomic supremacy, the wider world more as they see fit.
Would Trump restore democracy after winning, would Pelosi and the dems?
Foreign nations could get involved, indirectly or directly.
Of course right leaning nations would be more inclined to help republicans and left leaning dems.
It could end up in a stalemate, where the union dissolves and balkanizes.
The west coast could permanently split from the union, becoming the Pacific States of America, if you will.
Likewise the northeast coast could permanently split, becoming the Atlantic States.
The rest of the states may remain loyal to Trump and the republicans.
On the other hand, the US could completely collapse, leaving it wide open to be conquered by Russia, China, the EU or all three.
If the EU were to conquer the US, they would probably try to restore it to something like what it was, but of course the EU would wear the pants in this new relationship.

No matter what happens, even if there's no civil unrest let alone civil war, America's standing in the world is waning, and it's not all Trump's fault, I don't think it's his fault at all, it's because of America's many blunders abroad and at home over the last couple of decades.
I think we're going to see the US, the EU and the western world at large turn increasingly inward, needing to resolve our own problems, less able to be solve, or give the rest of the world problems.

Democracy isn't a given, they come and go.
If civil war does break out, followed by a partial socioeconomic collapse, it's possible both dems and republicans may lose.
A 3rd man, perhaps a military man may appear on the scene.
Ideologically he may be somewhere on the far right, or far left, or he may not be ideological at all, a pragmatist, someone who's willing to do anything and everything it takes to secure power for himself and stabilize the country, someone unrestricted, not confined by ideology, nor the constitution and rule of law.

For democracy to continue to exist, long term, it needs certain conditions.
It needs an armed, informed and politically active and engaged public.
It needs critical thinkers, not pawns manipulated by academic, economic and political elites.
A people's strength waxes and wanes.
One region falls while another rises from the ashes.
While some cultural diversity and even division can be healthy for democracy, so it doesn't stagnate, this idea that we can just keep piling on the diversity ad infinitum is ludicrous.
There has to be some common ties that bind, at the very least a commitment to democracy itself, to the constitution and rule of law.
While both the left and right held these values in common, I'm not so sure anymore.
The right still seems to, but the left, with its constant rioting, the tearing down of monuments, no longer seems committed.

In a deeply divided America, culturally divided, economically, the rich never richer, the poor never poorer in living memory, in a multicultural, or anti-racist America, with mass illegal immigration, refugees, uneconomic migrants, where asking immigrants to assimilate, even a little bit, is verboten, where a culture is hated by its own people, perhaps only a strongman could hold this cluster fuck together.
It could be a third man, not a dem, nor a republican, a military man, or perhaps Trump himself could be that man.
Maybe that's what Trump had in mind all along, or maybe that's what the dems have in mind for themselves.

I'm not advocating anything here, merely exploring possibilities.
The only thing I'm sure of is, if America is to survive and continue to thrive, it needs to make some bold changes, what has worked for the last 75 years isn't working, I think practically all of us can agree on that.
Trump did attempt to make some changes, but whether they were the right changes or enough ultimately remains to be seen, for most on the left they were the wrong changes, for many on the right they weren't enough.
But even if America does survive, democracy, liberty and prosperity, mostly or sufficiently intact, I don't think the rest of the 21st century will continue to be the American century.
It's a different world now, a more multipolar world, where there isn't a sole superpower that can just dictate to the world this and that, what's what.
And that's part of what Trump represents, America disengaging from the world a bit, letting it take care of itself, putting American interests first, as he puts it.
I think in that respect the Trump admin has taken a few steps in the right direction, but more needs to be done.
America needs to stop prying, stop bullying other nations.
That being said, America does have a role in the world to play.
Invading Iraq was the wrong move based on lies, all these ventures in the middle east were, however arming Taiwan so it can defend itself against an increasingly aggressive and hostile China, that was the right move.
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Re: November 3rd and Beyond

Postby Gloominary » Mon Nov 02, 2020 4:12 pm

WendyDarling wrote:F) Trump wins both the electoral and popular vote by a landslide but Biden refuses to concede claiming mail in voter fraud and suppression until the Supreme Court announces Trump’s victory in mid December.

Yup, dems often accuse republicans of what they themselves are doing or mean to do.
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Re: November 3rd and Beyond

Postby Gloominary » Mon Nov 02, 2020 4:18 pm

obsrvr524 wrote:Finally someone who actually knows something about the bigger picture.

Feel free to share any thoughts of your own.
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Re: November 3rd and Beyond

Postby Gloominary » Mon Nov 02, 2020 4:28 pm

iambiguous wrote:How about this "scenario":

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/11/01/opin ... e=Homepage

''The weeks following the election could very well be the most dangerous weeks in this country since the Civil War.

'If Donald Trump should lose, he may well not concede. And he will still be president, with all the power that bestows. His supporters will likely be seething, thinking that the election has been stolen. These are seeds he has been sowing for months.

'Trump will have command of the military, the Justice Department and part of the intelligence apparatus.

'He already knows that the Manhattan district attorney, Cyrus R. Vance Jr., is investigating his dodgy finances. Trump knows he could face charges as soon as he leaves office — and he won’t be federally pardoned.

'He has tasted power and can’t imagine a world in which it was withdrawn from him. A loss would be a supremely embarrassing rebuke, the first sitting president not to win re-election in 28 years.

'The pandemic will still be raging, but Trump, who has consistently downplayed it and tragically mismanaged it, will feel absolutely no obligation to contain it.

'He will be wounded, afraid and dangerous.'

Yup, that's a possibility, but so is this:

Antifa-affiliated Twitter account shares riot strategy guides in preparation for US election fallout – no matter who wins

As US citizens batten down the hatches in preparation for protests, riots and general mayhem on the streets after Tuesday’s presidential election, one Antifa-affiliated group is publishing riot strategy guides on Twitter.
The self-proclaimed “decentralized anarchist collective” CrimethInc has shared a slew of instructionals covering everything from rioter fashionadvice, to first aid for protesters, including how to manage common injuries from police weapons and even how best to treat gunshot wounds.

Within the thread are specific posts relating to helmets, gas masks, goggles, how best to deploy leaf blowers and laser pointers, as well as best practices for brandishing shields and umbrellas in the face of tear gas and on-lethal police munitions.

CrimethInc even provided a handy protest simulator for would-be anarchists to test their mettle against the authorities in a ‘choose-your-own-adventure’ game.

Of course, the CrimethInc account was quick to add a caveat for the audience, hoping for an anarchist utopia to spring up overnight and preclude the need for any post-election street violence in the extremely unlikely event that both the Democrats and Republicans suddenly decide to scrap the whole thing.

"We hope none of this will be necessary—we hope Trump will concede the election, Biden and all the other politicians will resign, and we'll suddenly find ourselves in a world without capitalism, white supremacy, or the state,” the post reads, before alluding to the “long fight ahead."

https://www.rt.com/usa/505229-antifa-twitter-account-riot-strategy-guides/
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Re: November 3rd and Beyond

Postby Gloominary » Mon Nov 02, 2020 4:51 pm

And this:

But conveniently, a group of former top government officials called the Transition Integrity Project actually gamed four possible scenarios, including one that doesn’t look that different from 2016: a big popular win for Mr. Biden, and a narrow electoral defeat, presumably reached after weeks of counting the votes in Pennsylvania. For their war game, they cast John Podesta, who was Hillary Clinton’s campaign chairman, in the role of Mr. Biden. They expected him, when the votes came in, to concede, just as Mrs. Clinton had.

But Mr. Podesta, playing Mr. Biden, shocked the organizers by saying he felt his party wouldn’t let him concede. Alleging voter suppression, he persuaded the governors of Wisconsin and Michigan to send pro-Biden electors to the Electoral College.

In that scenario, California, Oregon, and Washington then threatened to secede from the United States if Mr. Trump took office as planned. The House named Mr. Biden president; the Senate and White House stuck with Mr. Trump. At that point in the scenario, the nation stopped looking to the media for cues, and waited to see what the military would do.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/02/business/media/election-coverage.html?smid=tw-share
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Re: November 3rd and Beyond

Postby Urwrongx1000 » Mon Nov 02, 2020 5:12 pm

This sums it up as of Nov 2nd, 2020

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Re: November 3rd and Beyond

Postby MagsJ » Mon Nov 02, 2020 5:15 pm

Gloominary wrote:Democracy isn't a given, they come and go.
If civil war does break out, followed by a partial socioeconomic collapse, it's possible both dems and republicans may lose.
A 3rd man, perhaps a military man may appear on the scene.
Ideologically he may be somewhere on the far right, or far left, or he may not be ideological at all, a pragmatist, someone who's willing to do anything and everything it takes to secure power for himself and stabilize the country, someone unrestricted, not confined by ideology, nor the constitution and rule of law.

A second civil war.. despite having a capable military?

A coup? how exciting.. who is this guy? he sounds adorable..

It sounds like the current course of events might miraculously lead to your above scenario coming to fruition.. perhaps not. Though.. like Iambiguous, America is fractured.. especially by recent design, and that might call for military intervention.. but long-term and with or without agreement by the Senate?

It’s not like the military haven’t ever been installed here, during the IRA era and Falklands War etc., but it wasn’t to over-throw the Government but to resolve situations of unrest. I could see that happening..
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Re: November 3rd and Beyond

Postby Meno_ » Mon Nov 02, 2020 5:24 pm

"non-scalable" fence will reportedly be installed around the White House one day before ballots are cast on Tuesday as concerns mount over potential unrest on Election Day.

According to CNN, the fence will be similar to the barrier that was erected along the White House's perimeters earlier this year amid widespread protests following the police killing of George Floyd in late May.

The fence will reportedly go up on Monday around the Ellipse and Lafayette Square, on 15th Street and Constitution Avenue NW, as well as 17th Street and on H Street NW.

The Hill reached out to the White House for comment.
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Re: November 3rd and Beyond

Postby Gloominary » Mon Nov 02, 2020 6:35 pm

Meno_ wrote:"non-scalable" fence will reportedly be installed around the White House one day before ballots are cast on Tuesday as concerns mount over potential unrest on Election Day.

According to CNN, the fence will be similar to the barrier that was erected along the White House's perimeters earlier this year amid widespread protests following the police killing of George Floyd in late May.

The fence will reportedly go up on Monday around the Ellipse and Lafayette Square, on 15th Street and Constitution Avenue NW, as well as 17th Street and on H Street NW.

The Hill reached out to the White House for comment.

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Re: November 3rd and Beyond

Postby iambiguous » Mon Nov 02, 2020 7:06 pm

Gloominary wrote:
iambiguous wrote:How about this "scenario":

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/11/01/opin ... e=Homepage

''The weeks following the election could very well be the most dangerous weeks in this country since the Civil War.

'If Donald Trump should lose, he may well not concede. And he will still be president, with all the power that bestows. His supporters will likely be seething, thinking that the election has been stolen. These are seeds he has been sowing for months.

'Trump will have command of the military, the Justice Department and part of the intelligence apparatus.

'He already knows that the Manhattan district attorney, Cyrus R. Vance Jr., is investigating his dodgy finances. Trump knows he could face charges as soon as he leaves office — and he won’t be federally pardoned.

'He has tasted power and can’t imagine a world in which it was withdrawn from him. A loss would be a supremely embarrassing rebuke, the first sitting president not to win re-election in 28 years.

'The pandemic will still be raging, but Trump, who has consistently downplayed it and tragically mismanaged it, will feel absolutely no obligation to contain it.

'He will be wounded, afraid and dangerous.'

Yup, that's a possibility, but so is this:

Antifa-affiliated Twitter account shares riot strategy guides in preparation for US election fallout – no matter who wins

As US citizens batten down the hatches in preparation for protests, riots and general mayhem on the streets after Tuesday’s presidential election, one Antifa-affiliated group is publishing riot strategy guides on Twitter.
The self-proclaimed “decentralized anarchist collective” CrimethInc has shared a slew of instructionals covering everything from rioter fashionadvice, to first aid for protesters, including how to manage common injuries from police weapons and even how best to treat gunshot wounds.

Within the thread are specific posts relating to helmets, gas masks, goggles, how best to deploy leaf blowers and laser pointers, as well as best practices for brandishing shields and umbrellas in the face of tear gas and on-lethal police munitions.

CrimethInc even provided a handy protest simulator for would-be anarchists to test their mettle against the authorities in a ‘choose-your-own-adventure’ game.

Of course, the CrimethInc account was quick to add a caveat for the audience, hoping for an anarchist utopia to spring up overnight and preclude the need for any post-election street violence in the extremely unlikely event that both the Democrats and Republicans suddenly decide to scrap the whole thing.

"We hope none of this will be necessary—we hope Trump will concede the election, Biden and all the other politicians will resign, and we'll suddenly find ourselves in a world without capitalism, white supremacy, or the state,” the post reads, before alluding to the “long fight ahead."

https://www.rt.com/usa/505229-antifa-twitter-account-riot-strategy-guides/


True enough [perhaps] but you know me. My interest lies less in the fact that liberals see one version and conservatives another, and more in the manner in which both come to acquire these political prejudices given the unique sequence of experiences, relationships and access to information in the lives that they lived. The part that revolves around dasein. The part that many here avoid like the plague.

Then the objectivists among them who insist that not only is their own version the right one, but that anyone who doesn't think exactly like they do in sharing it is, well, for some here, scum.
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

Start here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=176529
Then here: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=185296
And here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=194382
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Re: November 3rd and Beyond

Postby Meno_ » Mon Nov 02, 2020 8:02 pm

Iambigious said,



"True enough [perhaps] but you know me. My interest lies less in the fact that liberals see one version and conservatives another, and more in the manner in which both come to acquire these political prejudices given the unique sequence of experiences, relationships and access to information in the lives that they lived. The part that revolves around dasein. The part that many here avoid like the plague.

Then the objectivists among them who insist that not only is their own version the right one, but that anyone who doesn't think exactly like they do in sharing it is, well, for some here, scum."



Even more reductively, what underlines such manner in which people find themselves in?

It's not merely a descriptive set of tie-ins, that revolve around Dasein, a set of opinionated inscriptions, of objectifying the subsets of behaviors and opinions, but a proscripted sequance.

The inscriptions are reductive, just as Your follow up comments, they are reactionary based on prior marked up impressions, rather than productively insightful on pre-existing major premises.

Dont get me wrong, I share with everybody the notion of the receding significance of reified succession of recorded data,
and contemporaniously accept the latest recently revised opinionated sentiment about which everyone weighs their alleigence with.

In other words , not one among us can claim to be outside the box, nor completely inside it either.

The just of it is , or has become the categorical leff/ right difference dies not reflect a clear cut conservative/ liberal equinimity.

That is why, with all the hoopla surrounding the ominous approach of a new , complete lockdown, Biden can truthfully say that he is never going to, in spite of Trump's forecast to the contrary.

The process of rates of infection tied to the political whirlwind going on, is a mistake, because it gives the impression that political outcomes will determine the rate of infection.

The dervish of the movements around Dasein will determine the reactive forces that lie under all the propaganda, and not the other way around.

It goes to the very innards of existential reduction, Being, unopiniated, has outworn the mantra, "esse est percipii" the preeminence of existence can not be justified by 'the death of history/memory.

Labeling a reactionary point of view, will automatically splice that label to objective questions as to what that represents.

What greatness of America is it , that can accurately define what that greatness represents to most people? Is it anything but a reference to the type of wealth, promise, and
general well being that was prevelant in the first half of the 20th century?

Was existentialism a prostration to the American success with eliminating the signs and symbols , and the architecture if pre-modern times?

Reductionism was a salve to heal the wounds of sudden ad-hoc planning, discounting major archetypes of remembered nuances?

Dasein's relevance to a new , modern architecture is not as relevant to , for instance, then to the integral architecture of simulated memory circuitry, for instance. That distinction is noted, and the Continental architecture does not demolish the vestiges of the old , but reintegrates it with constantly rehabilitated old versions.

The aesthetic priority is subtextually grounded by Kierkegaard as the next step down from a Theistic support.

As such, what should happen, & what needs to be done are do for an inversion.

But 'real'philisophy cannot be designated outside the box, so I am merely pointing to a deficit
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Re: November 3rd and Beyond

Postby Gloominary » Tue Nov 03, 2020 2:01 am

MagsJ wrote:
Gloominary wrote:Democracy isn't a given, they come and go.
If civil war does break out, followed by a partial socioeconomic collapse, it's possible both dems and republicans may lose.
A 3rd man, perhaps a military man may appear on the scene.
Ideologically he may be somewhere on the far right, or far left, or he may not be ideological at all, a pragmatist, someone who's willing to do anything and everything it takes to secure power for himself and stabilize the country, someone unrestricted, not confined by ideology, nor the constitution and rule of law.

A second civil war.. despite having a capable military?

For their time, Athens and Rome had both democracy and a capable military yet many civil wars.
Same with France, Spain, Germany and Italy.

I'm not talking about Antifa, BLM, 3%ers, Oath Keepers or some other paramilitary staging a coup, at least not all by themselves.
Militaries can fracture.
If there's a contested election, which there may very well be, especially if it's a tight race, if each side accuses the other of fraud, voter suppression, if the supreme court has to intervene and still the losing party isn't willing to concede, if some states attempt to secede, which according to John Podesta they may do, it'll be interesting to see what the military does.
Will they go along with whoever the supreme court says won, or will they go with who they say lost, or will it splinter, some military leaders siding with dems, others republicans leading to civil war.

America has had contested elections and recounts before, but ultimately they were able to resolve things constitutionally, democratically, peacefully through the process, but this time, it really looks as tho neither side may be willing to back down no matter what, kind of like a boxing match where both boxers accuse each other of illegal blows, the referee sides with one of them, the other accuses the referee of corruption, attacks both the referee and the other fighter, then everyone jumps in the ring and a massive brawl breaks out.

If civil war does occur, the military may neatly fracture along party lines, some siding with dems, the rest with republicans.
On the other hand, there's the possibility it or factions within it side with neither.
They may side with another existing party, like say the Libertarian party, or the Party for Socialism and Liberation (Marxist-Leninists), or the American Solidarity party (Christian democrats), or a party yet to arrive on the scene, or with no party at all.
This faction of the military who sides with a third party or no party at all, may overcome the other factions and select their own president, or dictator for life.
Of course if something like this happens it won't unfold overnight, it'll take years of political and socioeconomic unravelling, but a contested election, where the government isn't able to resolve things, where both politicians and the people lose confidence in the process, could be the beginning of such an unraveling.

Ultimately we've had peaceful transitions because everyone, the vast majority of the people and politicians trusted the process, but if about half the people and/or politicians think the other half are completely batshit or duplicitous and evil, then the process breaks down and the country along with it.
It only works because enough of us believe it does.
Democracy is a much more fragile thing than many people realize.
I mean if we elected Mussolini or Hitler, would you go along with them?
Well that's the problem see, a very large % of people and politicians believe Trump is Mussolini, Hitler or Putin's pawn, not just him, but they think he's maneuvering his minions into key positions of power to undermine the process.
Likewise many on the right are beginning to think the dems always were or have recently been taken over by Marxist-Leninists, because of everything that's happened in the last year especially, the p(l)andemic, the Antifa-BLM looting/riots, the tearing down of monuments, big tech censorship of conservative voices, the kind of hateful rhetoric coming out of the mainstream media the democratic leadership appears to be perfectly fine with, many even encouraging it, but the right is pretty shaken up by it, they are scared and angry.
Half a decade ago we weren't here, America hasn't had this much doubt in itself and its other half in a very long time.
You can't have a high functioning democracy, if a democracy at all in this sort of climate.
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Re: November 3rd and Beyond

Postby Gloominary » Wed Nov 04, 2020 5:28 pm

The way I see it, if you think this is over because one side has won/lost, think again, this will go on...and on......
Last edited by Gloominary on Wed Nov 04, 2020 7:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: November 3rd and Beyond

Postby Gloominary » Wed Nov 04, 2020 5:42 pm

Just like dems never let up about Russian and white nationalist conspiracy theories during Trump's administration, Trump and the republicans will never let up about Chinese and globalist conspiracy theories, about mail-in votes, vote fraud and suppression.
Last edited by Gloominary on Wed Nov 04, 2020 5:55 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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