We Do Not have a Medical Pandemic

Discussion of the recent unfolding of history.

Re: We Do Not have a Medical Pandemic

Postby Gloominary » Tue Dec 22, 2020 8:26 pm

d0rkyd00d wrote:Gloom your alternate theory needed to explain these facts requires many more assumptions than the actual explanation.

I think yours does, you assume everything the establishment tells you is true, whereas I don't assume the opposite, that it's all false, but I have a lot of reasons to presume the gist of it is likely false.
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Re: We Do Not have a Medical Pandemic

Postby Sculptor » Tue Dec 22, 2020 8:36 pm

Gloominary wrote:
d0rkyd00d wrote:Gloom your alternate theory needed to explain these facts requires many more assumptions than the actual explanation.

I think yours does, you assume everything the establishment tells you is true, whereas I don't assume the opposite, that it's all false, but I have a lot of reasons to presume the gist of it is likely false.


Which establishment.
The political and economic establishments have been saying don't worry, whilst the medical establishments have been urging more caution and pushing for travel bans, tracing, etc..
The political establishment have the power. Result death.
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Re: We Do Not have a Medical Pandemic

Postby obsrvr524 » Tue Dec 22, 2020 11:20 pm

I think there is a casual relationship between communism and simple minded gullibility being regularly displayed.
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Re: We Do Not have a Medical Pandemic

Postby d0rkyd00d » Wed Dec 23, 2020 12:27 am

obsrvr524 wrote:I think there is a casual relationship between communism and simple minded gullibility being regularly displayed.


Don't say that obsrvr, I don't think you're a communist.
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Re: We Do Not have a Medical Pandemic

Postby d0rkyd00d » Wed Dec 23, 2020 12:33 am

Sculptor wrote:
Gloominary wrote:
d0rkyd00d wrote:Gloom your alternate theory needed to explain these facts requires many more assumptions than the actual explanation.

I think yours does, you assume everything the establishment tells you is true, whereas I don't assume the opposite, that it's all false, but I have a lot of reasons to presume the gist of it is likely false.


Which establishment.
The political and economic establishments have been saying don't worry, whilst the medical establishments have been urging more caution and pushing for travel bans, tracing, etc..
The political establishment have the power. Result death.


Exactly. It is easier to fight straw men, gloom, but I do treat things with a healthy amount of skepticism. Healthy being the key term here.

I believe it was Xunzian who once said, "Skepticism should be used as a shield, not a sword." Assuming that all journalists, politicians, and scientists have no motive to find and disseminate the facts as accurately as possible is just blatantly false. So if you reason that there are a good number of scientists, journalists, and politicians who actually do care about establishing the facts as accurately and with as little bias as possible, then the idea that the entire "establishment" (which I'd assume is defined to suit your narrative) is somehow coordinating to deceive the public is baseless.
"So long as the people do not care to exercise their freedom, those who wish to tyrannize will do so; for tyrants are active and ardent, and will devote themselves in the name of any number of gods, religious and otherwise, to put shackles upon sleeping men." -Voltaire

"If an opinion contrary to your own makes you angry, that is a sign that you are subconsciously aware of having no good reason for thinking as you do."
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Re: We Do Not have a Medical Pandemic

Postby obsrvr524 » Wed Dec 23, 2020 12:51 am

d0rkyd00d wrote:Don't say that obsrvr, I don't think

I agree with you. :D
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    It's just same Satanism as always -
    • separate the bottom from the top,
    • the left from the right,
    • the light from the dark, and
    • blame each for the sins of the other
    • - until they beg you to take charge.
    • -- but "you" have been observed --
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Re: We Do Not have a Medical Pandemic

Postby Gloominary » Wed Dec 23, 2020 1:14 am

Sculptor wrote:
Gloominary wrote:
d0rkyd00d wrote:Gloom your alternate theory needed to explain these facts requires many more assumptions than the actual explanation.

I think yours does, you assume everything the establishment tells you is true, whereas I don't assume the opposite, that it's all false, but I have a lot of reasons to presume the gist of it is likely false.


Which establishment.
The political and economic establishments have been saying don't worry, whilst the medical establishments have been urging more caution and pushing for travel bans, tracing, etc..
The political establishment have the power. Result death.

In the anglosphere, the liberal elite, big tech and MSM are wholly on board with the medical establishment, while the right are fundamentally or mostly on board.
DJT may not be taking it quite as seriously as his liberal counterparts, but he's still taking it seriously.

1stly, while DJT refused to lock the whole country down or force everyone to wear masks, he still declared a national emergency, and has been working diligently to supply states and hospitals with everything they need to manage this 'pandemic', including operation warp speed, deploying the military to distribute vaccines.

2ndly, while DJT is fundamentally or mostly taking it seriously, he's not an establishment politician, he's a maverick, so it's no surprise he's not as aligned with the medical establishment as his counterparts in Australia, NZ, Canada and Ireland are.
While he may be a billionaire, he's not a conventional politician, he has no prior political or military experience.
While he's managed to get many republicans on his side, the vast majority of dems and even many republicans, the never Trumpers, are anti-Trump, as is the legacy media and big tech.
Since Trump became leader of the republicans, wall street has been throwing a hell of a lot more money at dems than reps, and I don't think it's out of their conscience.
DJT is more of a populist politician, unestablishment, and even still he's been fundamentally or mostly on board with the official narrative.

Canada and from what I gather, Australia, NZ and Ireland have been completely attuned to the medical establishment.
As for the UK, Boris can't be more medically dissident than Trump, and again Trump is basically on board.
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Re: We Do Not have a Medical Pandemic

Postby Gloominary » Wed Dec 23, 2020 1:23 am

Almost every country in the world is taking this virus seriously.
Some are taking more measures than others, but almost all of them have radically overturned their society and economy to tackle whatever you believe about this virus.
It's not like half or most countries did nothing or next to it.
The globalists, international organizations like the WHO and the multinationals wield tremendous power, they have managed to strongarm most of the world into implementing these draconian restrictions.
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Re: We Do Not have a Medical Pandemic

Postby Gloominary » Wed Dec 23, 2020 1:32 am

Exactly. It is easier to fight straw men, gloom, but I do treat things with a healthy amount of skepticism. Healthy being the key term here.

I believe it was Xunzian who once said, "Skepticism should be used as a shield, not a sword." Assuming that all journalists, politicians, and scientists have no motive to find and disseminate the facts as accurately as possible is just blatantly false. So if you reason that there are a good number of scientists, journalists, and politicians who actually do care about establishing the facts as accurately and with as little bias as possible, then the idea that the entire "establishment" (which I'd assume is defined to suit your narrative) is somehow coordinating to deceive the public is baseless.

That was never my position.
My position is that enough heads of state, legacy media and big tech, heads of international organizations like the WHO and multinationals are conspiring in this thing, to carry the agenda forward to the degree it's being carried forward.
Many politicians and so on are just ambivalent or apathetic, not in the know, and many of them are afraid to speak out.
Many whistle blowers are speaking out, for example tens of thousands of doctors and scientists have come forward, saying they believe the lockdowns, masks and so on are completely unjustified, that the pandemic has been greatly, and in some cases maliciously exaggerated, but you don't hear about them, they get marginalized, and when necessary ridiculed, slandered, doxed, harassed and so on.
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Re: We Do Not have a Medical Pandemic

Postby Ecmandu » Wed Dec 23, 2020 2:05 am

There are some things that aren’t exaggerated about the pandemic by medical experts:

1.) at the Covid rate, if everyone caught it, almost 300,000,000 people would die, compared to 1/40th of that from the normal Flu

2.) Covid really sucks to get !!! Everyone who gets it says it HURTS a LOT more than the ordinary flu

3.) people who recover from Covid are reporting long term neurological effects, nobody knows what the percentage is yet
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Re: We Do Not have a Medical Pandemic

Postby Gloominary » Wed Dec 23, 2020 2:51 am

Ultimately truth is second to power.
If some politicians care about and have the truth on their side, but the vast majority of politicians are some combination of elitist, sociopathic, apathetic and afraid of speaking out, for fear of losing their livelihoods, perhaps their lives, then the truth isn't going to do you a whole lot of good, they will vote against it.
In order for the truth to matter, you need a majority in an institution or corporation to care.
If the majority don't, you'll have massive corruption.
If it's roughly split down the middle, you'll have a power struggle.

1 of 5 CEOs for example are sociopaths, according to some studies, and I suspect the same is true of politicians.
For comparison, 1 of 5 convicts are sociopaths, and most of the rest have sociopathic tendencies, they score higher on sociopathy than the majority of the population.
This perfectly explains the imbalance of power we see in the world, how wealth and power continue to get pilfered from the people, because class warfare, elitism, and selfishness are the norm in history, particularly in politics and big business, not the exception.
The masses have to violently uproot the establishment from time to time, this was considered common sense in pre-revolutionary and post-revolutionary America, now it's uncommon, and so we'll continue to be exploited until a majority or significant minority of people feel like they have nothing left to lose.
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Re: We Do Not have a Medical Pandemic

Postby Gloominary » Wed Dec 23, 2020 3:18 am

The world of big politics, big business, international organizations and multinationals is a world of what?
Truth and justice?
No, it's a world of money and power.
You don't get to be at that level and stay there by putting truth and justice first, it's rare.
These people are where they are, a very tough position to make it to, because they're ruthless, willing to do just about whatever it takes.
At the end of the day these people love money and power, that's why they're there.
Politics is filthy, dirty.
By and large these people are scum.
And people's gullibility makes it all the more possible for scum to thrive.
Politics is mafia, it's a racket.
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Re: We Do Not have a Medical Pandemic

Postby obsrvr524 » Wed Dec 23, 2020 5:23 am

Gloominary wrote:1 of 5 CEOs for example are sociopaths, according to some studies, and I suspect the same is true of politicians.

I think you are giving politicians too much credit. But that is normal and why they continue unabated.
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              You have been observed.
    Though often tempted to encourage a dog to distinguish color I refuse to argue with him about it
    It's just same Satanism as always -
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    • the left from the right,
    • the light from the dark, and
    • blame each for the sins of the other
    • - until they beg you to take charge.
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Re: We Do Not have a Medical Pandemic

Postby Urwrongx1000 » Wed Dec 23, 2020 5:27 am

Gloominary wrote:The world of big politics, big business, international organizations and multinationals is a world of what?
Truth and justice?
No, it's a world of money and power.
You don't get to be at that level and stay there by putting truth and justice first, it's rare.
These people are where they are, a very tough position to make it to, because they're ruthless, willing to do just about whatever it takes.
At the end of the day these people love money and power, that's why they're there.
Politics is filthy, dirty.
By and large these people are scum.
And people's gullibility makes it all the more possible for scum to thrive.
Politics is mafia, it's a racket.

Hear hear!

This is exactly why a Populist movement (Trump-ism) is so important right now!
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Re: We Do Not have a Medical Pandemic

Postby Gloominary » Wed Dec 23, 2020 11:15 am

Urwrongx1000 wrote:
Gloominary wrote:The world of big politics, big business, international organizations and multinationals is a world of what?
Truth and justice?
No, it's a world of money and power.
You don't get to be at that level and stay there by putting truth and justice first, it's rare.
These people are where they are, a very tough position to make it to, because they're ruthless, willing to do just about whatever it takes.
At the end of the day these people love money and power, that's why they're there.
Politics is filthy, dirty.
By and large these people are scum.
And people's gullibility makes it all the more possible for scum to thrive.
Politics is mafia, it's a racket.

Hear hear!

This is exactly why a Populist movement (Trump-ism) is so important right now!

Right on 8)
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Re: We Do Not have a Medical Pandemic

Postby Gloominary » Wed Dec 23, 2020 11:52 am

The thing about boomers is, they burst into existence, hence the name, there was a massive spike in births after WW2, likewise we're expecting a corresponding spike in death now, or some time this decade, as the oldest boomers turn 75.
If there's a spike in people dying in nursing homes, this may explain all or some of it.
If there's a general spike in death, stress from the socioeconomy being turned on its head due to lockdown itself may explain some or all of it.
I say if, because these statistics are still coming in and being processed, we'll see what they look like.
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Re: We Do Not have a Medical Pandemic

Postby Gloominary » Wed Dec 23, 2020 12:48 pm

Summary

What is already known about this topic?

Influenza activity is currently low in the United States and globally.

What is added by this report?

Following widespread adoption of community mitigation measures to reduce transmission of SARS-CoV-2, the virus that causes COVID-19, the percentage of U.S. respiratory specimens submitted for influenza testing that tested positive decreased from >20% to 2.3% and has remained at historically low interseasonal levels (0.2% versus 1–2%). Data from Southern Hemisphere countries also indicate little influenza activity.

What are the implications for public health practice?

Interventions aimed against SARS-CoV-2 transmission, plus influenza vaccination, could substantially reduce influenza incidence and impact in the 2020–21 Northern Hemisphere season. Some mitigation measures might have a role in reducing transmission in future influenza seasons.

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/mm6937a6.htm

Or flu diagnoses and deaths are being relabeled covid diagnoses and deaths.
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Re: We Do Not have a Medical Pandemic

Postby obsrvr524 » Wed Dec 23, 2020 1:00 pm

Gloominary wrote:Or flu diagnoses and deaths are being relabeled covid diagnoses and deaths.

That was exactly my first thought.
:lol:
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    Though often tempted to encourage a dog to distinguish color I refuse to argue with him about it
    It's just same Satanism as always -
    • separate the bottom from the top,
    • the left from the right,
    • the light from the dark, and
    • blame each for the sins of the other
    • - until they beg you to take charge.
    • -- but "you" have been observed --
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Re: We Do Not have a Medical Pandemic

Postby Gloominary » Wed Dec 23, 2020 1:05 pm

obsrvr524 wrote:
Gloominary wrote:Or flu diagnoses and deaths are being relabeled covid diagnoses and deaths.

That was exactly my first thought.
:lol:

IKR? :D
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Re: We Do Not have a Medical Pandemic

Postby d0rkyd00d » Wed Dec 23, 2020 4:04 pm

obsrvr524 wrote:
Gloominary wrote:Or flu diagnoses and deaths are being relabeled covid diagnoses and deaths.

That was exactly my first thought.
:lol:


Oof
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Re: We Do Not have a Medical Pandemic

Postby promethean75 » Wed Dec 23, 2020 11:42 pm

"When researchers took a close look at its genome, they were struck by the relatively large number of mutations — 23, all told — that it had acquired. Most mutations that arise in the coronavirus are either harmful to the virus or have no effect one way or another. But a number of the mutations in B.1.1.7 looked as if they could potentially affect how the virus spread."

23 mutations, and they happen to be mutations that help it spread, rather than mutations affecting other functions of the virus. Hmm....

Coincidence, or something more sinister.

you decide
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Re: We Do Not have a Medical Pandemic

Postby obsrvr524 » Thu Dec 24, 2020 4:41 am

promethean75 wrote:23 mutations, and they happen to be mutations that help it spread, rather than mutations affecting other functions of the virus. Hmm....

Assuming any of that is true, I am not surprised by it. What causes weak mutations and what causes increased ability to spread are very different issues. It seems reasonable to me that mutations that have no other effect or a diminishing effect might easily cause an increase in spreadability. Spreadability and harm to the host are just very different issues - perhaps related perhaps not.
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    • separate the bottom from the top,
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    • the light from the dark, and
    • blame each for the sins of the other
    • - until they beg you to take charge.
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Re: We Do Not have a Medical Pandemic

Postby Urwrongx1000 » Thu Dec 24, 2020 5:01 am

The idea of prom in a white lab coat does not reassure me one bit.
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Re: We Do Not have a Medical Pandemic

Postby MagsJ » Thu Dec 24, 2020 7:08 am

promethean75 wrote:"When researchers took a close look at its genome, they were struck by the relatively large number of mutations — 23, all told — that it had acquired. Most mutations that arise in the coronavirus are either harmful to the virus or have no effect one way or another. But a number of the mutations in B.1.1.7 looked as if they could potentially affect how the virus spread."

23 mutations, and they happen to be mutations that help it spread, rather than mutations affecting other functions of the virus. Hmm....

Coincidence, or something more sinister.

you decide

The new (highly contagious) strain of the virus, entered the UK via the coasts of Kent and Cornwall, so not from within but from without, the UK.. then spreading to the nearby counties near them.

It didn’t start inland, as has been suggested.
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Re: We Do Not have a Medical Pandemic

Postby Mr Reasonable » Thu Dec 24, 2020 7:16 am

the cool thing about the pfizer vaccine is that it breaks down a protein that is believed to be necessary for the virus to replicate in the body and so in the event that a new strain emerges, you would still be able to break it down. its not a low dose of the virus like a lot of vaccines. its encoded mrna that provides your body the ability to break down that protien in the event that you get infected with covid.

i dunno about the other vaccine but thats how the pfizer one works.
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