to rig or not to rig?

Discussion of the recent unfolding of history.

Re: to rig or not to rig?

Postby MagsJ » Fri Sep 25, 2020 12:22 pm

Meno_ wrote:
MagsJ wrote:
MagsJ wrote:Peter said: “so if the president violates his oath, the military must act to
obey their sworn duty to defend the constitution....”


Depends what they’re defending, if you ask me.. a constitution should at least attempt to benefit all, not some or a few. I don’t actually know if your constitution does, but it doesn’t seem like it does, by the state your country is in.
Does it?
Again, a work in progress, hopefully somewhat clarified come this November

Will it now even make a difference, to you’re current political climes?

If it doesn’t or can’t, then what will? free money and diet sodas..?
The possibility of anything we can imagine existing is endless and infinite.. - MagsJ

I haven't got the time to spend the time reading something that is telling me nothing, as I will never be able to get back that time, and I may need it for something at some point in time.. Wait, What! - MagsJ

You’re suggestions and I, just simply don’t mix.. like oil on water, or a really bad DJ - MagsJ
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Re: to rig or not to rig?

Postby Meno_ » Fri Sep 25, 2020 3:56 pm

MagsJsaid, :

"Will it now even make a difference, to you’re current political climes?"


Most or nearly all of it has been factored in, what's left is the unpredictability of Trump, of a genius that on the last. call , may become unmanageable.
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Re: to rig or not to rig?

Postby iambiguous » Fri Sep 25, 2020 10:02 pm

The first Trump/Biden debate is Tuesday, September 29, 2020, 9:00 PM EDT

Does anyone doubt that Chris Wallace will bring up the question of a "rigged election" in November?

And will or will not Trump be confronted with his threat to stay in the White House unless and until he is satisfied with the election results?

Finally, will the question of who in the government is responsible for removing him from office should he lose the election but refuse to leave on January 20th, be broached and put to rest?
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

Start here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=176529
Then here: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=185296
And here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=194382
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Re: to rig or not to rig?

Postby MagsJ » Fri Sep 25, 2020 10:09 pm

I’ll try remember to watch the debate on the 29th..
The possibility of anything we can imagine existing is endless and infinite.. - MagsJ

I haven't got the time to spend the time reading something that is telling me nothing, as I will never be able to get back that time, and I may need it for something at some point in time.. Wait, What! - MagsJ

You’re suggestions and I, just simply don’t mix.. like oil on water, or a really bad DJ - MagsJ
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Re: to rig or not to rig?

Postby iambiguous » Tue Sep 29, 2020 7:44 pm

Paul Krugman in the NYT

'So now we have a deeply indebted business owner with every incentive to engage in malfeasance — except that in addition to running his business, he’s running the United States of America.

'But he may be about to lose that special position, and whatever financial defense it may provide.

'Think about that. Also think about the fact that Trump constantly complains about almost nonexistent voter fraud — he has never accepted the fact that he lost the popular vote four years ago — and that he has repeatedly refused to say that he will accept election results if he loses. And tell me that you aren’t terrified about what the next few weeks may hold.'


Terrified? Is that still the wrong word?

On the other hand, all the more reason for Chris Wallace to confront Trump if he tries to wiggle around responding to this concern in tonight's debate.

And how about Biden? Where would he draw the line if things don't go his way in November?
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

Start here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=176529
Then here: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=185296
And here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=194382
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Re: to rig or not to rig?

Postby iambiguous » Wed Sep 30, 2020 7:51 pm

Veronica Quaife: "Be afraid. Be very afraid".

Or, to put it another way:

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/30/us/p ... e=Homepage

President Trump’s angry insistence in the last minutes of Tuesday’s debate that there was no way the presidential election could be conducted without fraud amounted to an extraordinary declaration by a sitting American president that he would try to throw any outcome into the courts, Congress or the streets if he was not re-elected.


Wow, this may well become a "real thing".

Too bad I'm still basically too "fractured and fragmented" to take sides.

Objectively as it were.

Still, what isn't clear to me is how those in the government responsible for assuring a smooth transition from one president to another will react to something like this from Trump. For me, it's not what he does so much as what he can get away with.
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

Start here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=176529
Then here: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=185296
And here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=194382
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Re: to rig or not to rig?

Postby Meno_ » Wed Sep 30, 2020 9:02 pm

iambiguous wrote:Veronica Quaife: "Be afraid. Be very afraid".

Or, to put it another way:

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/30/us/p ... e=Homepage

President Trump’s angry insistence in the last minutes of Tuesday’s debate that there was no way the presidential election could be conducted without fraud amounted to an extraordinary declaration by a sitting American president that he would try to throw any outcome into the courts, Congress or the streets if he was not re-elected.


Wow, this may well become a "real thing".

Too bad I'm still basically too "fractured and fragmented" to take sides.

Objectively as it were.

Still, what isn't clear to me is how those in the government responsible for assuring a smooth transition from one president to another will react to something like this from Trump. For me, it's not what he does so much as what he can get away with.




Unless, and think twice about this, unless there is more to this than the theatrics of a failed comedian trying to wield a straight poker face!
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Re: to rig or not to rig?

Postby iambiguous » Sat Oct 03, 2020 10:45 pm

The most surreal rigged election of them all?

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/10/02/opin ... e=Homepage

'It’s a measure of the cynicism that has infected American politics — and, yes, me — that among my initial reactions to the news that President Trump had tested positive for the coronavirus was: Are we sure? Can we trust that? A man who so frequently and flamboyantly plays the victim, and who has been prophylactically compiling ways to explain away or dispute a projected loss to Joe Biden, is now being forced off the campaign trail, which will be a monster of an excuse.

'I couldn’t help thinking that, and I soon realized that I was in robust company. On Twitter, on television and everywhere else I turned, doubters noted that Trump had once already suggested that the election be postponed: Was this a fresh tactic along those lines? He had just turned in a repellent performance in the first presidential debate: Was he wriggling out of the second and third debates?

'At another time, under a different president, these questions would be callous. At this time, under this president, they were sadly and perfectly understandable.'


With Trump, absolutely nothing can be ruled out.

Right?
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

Start here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=176529
Then here: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=185296
And here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=194382
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Re: to rig or not to rig?

Postby Ecmandu » Sun Oct 04, 2020 4:09 pm

I’m going to raise 4 bullet points that makes it credible that trump is faking it:

- he doesn’t have to debate joe anymore (even though it can be done on zoom)

- hypothetical sympathy for a psychopath

- he’ll emerge in perfect health to prove that coronavirus is a hoax

- for the evangelicals (and anarchists and white supremacists) it will be obvious to them that he is gods chosen one
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Re: to rig or not to rig?

Postby iambiguous » Sat Oct 10, 2020 10:41 pm

Let's be optimistic:

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/10/10/opin ... e=Homepage

'Three weeks from now, we will reach an end to speculation about what Donald Trump will do if he faces political defeat, whether he will leave power like a normal president or attempt some wild resistance. Reality will intrude, substantially if not definitively, into the argument over whether the president is a corrupt incompetent who postures as a strongman on Twitter or a threat to the Republic to whom words like “authoritarian” and even “autocrat” can be reasonably applied.'

Just 25 days to go!

'Across the last four years, the Trump administration has indeed displayed hallmarks of authoritarianism. It features egregious internal sycophancy and hacks in high positions, abusive presidential rhetoric and mendacity on an unusual scale. The president’s attempts to delegitimize the 2020 vote aren’t novel; they’re an extension of the way he’s talked since his birther days, paranoid and demagogic.

'These are all very bad things, and good reasons to favor his defeat. But it’s also important to recognize all the elements of authoritarianism he lacks. He lacks popularity and political skill, unlike most of the global strongmen who are supposed to be his peers. He lacks power over the media: Outside of Fox’s prime time, he faces an unremittingly hostile press whose major outlets have thrived throughout his presidency. He is plainly despised by his own military leadership, and notwithstanding his courtship of Mark Zuckerberg, Silicon Valley is more likely to censor him than to support him in a constitutional crisis.

'His own Supreme Court appointees have already ruled against him; his attempts to turn his voter-fraud hype into litigation have been repeatedly defeated in the courts; he has been constantly at war with his own C.I.A. and F.B.I. And there is no mass movement behind him: The threat of far-right violence is certainly real, but America’s streets belong to the anti-Trump left.'


So, how comforting is this?
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

Start here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=176529
Then here: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=185296
And here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=194382
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