to rig or not to rig?

Discussion of the recent unfolding of history.

Re: to rig or not to rig?

Postby iambiguous » Mon Aug 24, 2020 10:16 pm

Yawn?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics ... Fstory-ans

'The New York attorney general is investigating President Trump’s private business for allegedly misleading lenders by inflating the value of its assets, the attorney general’s office said Monday in a legal filing.

'In the filing, signed by a deputy to Attorney General Letitia James, the attorney general’s office said it is investigating Trump’s use of “Statements of Financial Condition” — documents Trump sent to lenders, summarizing his assets and debts.

'The filing asks a New York state judge to compel the Trump Organization to provide information it has been withholding from investigators — including a subpoena seeking an interview with the president’s son Eric.

'The attorney general’s office said it began investigating after Trump’s former lawyer and “fixer,” Michael Cohen, told Congress in February 2019 that Trump had used these statements to inflate his net worth to lenders.'


Who really knows where the hell "this one" will all end up. But it's just one more Trump episode that, once he leaves office, may or may not lead to legal consequences that may or may find send the crooked bastard to jail.

Try to even imagine the reality of a U.S. president being sentenced to prison!

But with each new scandal comes an increasing need on Trump's part stay in office. More and more less and less options are not going to be considered.

So, how ominous might it all become?

You know, if your not Wendy Darling? :lol:
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

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Re: to rig or not to rig?

Postby iambiguous » Sat Aug 29, 2020 5:31 pm

Here we go: https://slate.com/news-and-politics/202 ... urder.html

Don't forget to choose side.
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

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Re: to rig or not to rig?

Postby Peter Kropotkin » Sat Aug 29, 2020 5:50 pm

iambiguous wrote:Here we go: https://slate.com/news-and-politics/202 ... urder.html

Don't forget to choose side.


K: it is interesting that the right wing has already chosen dictatorship
and totalitarianism....that is their preferred method of government...
see Nazi Germany for further evidence....

the question arises, why does the right prefer to have dictators
and totalitarianism? what drives the right to make this choice?

being on the left, I don't see the reason for this choice... dictatorships
don't favor anyone outside of the ones who benefit from the dictatorships...

perhaps the right believes that they will somehow benefit from this state
of affairs?

in reading history, no, no dictatorship has ever lasted that long...
it winds up destroying itself fairly quickly.....

the Soviet Union was a dictatorship, nothing more and it lasted
a long time for a dictatorship, it lasted 73 years... whereas Nazi Germany
lasted only 12 years.. and other dictatorships lasted slightly more or slightly
less......but no dictatorship has ever gone very long... which suggests to me that
dictatorship are inherently unstable and going to, to collapse quickly...

so why choose a failed political philosophy that will only last a few years.....
short term gains that have no lasting influence ......that is a dictatorship
very definition....a short term gain with no lasting influence...

at least monarchies, which I don't like, at least they last far longer
then any dictatorship ever has.....

so, ask yourself, why a dictatorship which has no lasting value over
a democracy which our current method is, which has lasted 230 years,
far longer then any dictatorship ever has.. why must we go to something
inherently unstable when we already have something far more stable,
in a democracy?

Kropotkin
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wind up with neither."
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Re: to rig or not to rig?

Postby iambiguous » Sat Aug 29, 2020 7:43 pm

Fascism's minister of propaganda perhaps: https://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/28/opin ... e=Homepage

"It's race, stupid!"

'Mr. Trump is leaning on Mr. Miller’s dystopian vision to stoke white fear the way Mr. Miller did in 2016, when he helped his boss depict Democrats as elites seeking to “decimate” America through immigration. This time around the targets have expanded beyond Mexicans and Muslims to include Black Lives Matter protesters and their allies. The Trump campaign’s strategy is to cast the president’s opponents as an existential threat to the nation.

'The term “cancel culture,” used throughout the Republican convention, lumps together and demonizes critics of white male supremacy, in an attempt to silence them. The use of the term in this context allows the far right to dictate the terms of the conversation, as does the news media’s reluctance to call Mr. Trump and his chief adviser what they are: traffickers in hate, pushing a white nationalist agenda through narratives about national identity, prosperity and security.

'Mr. Miller seeks to re-engineer immigration into this country to keep brown and Black people out, because he sees them as threat to America’s prosperity and national security. It explains why his policies disproportionately affect migrant families from Latin America and Africa, and why the federal government is using force against anti-racist protesters in cities run by Democrats.'


But this can only work because large swaths of the white working class are still the embodiment of "pawns in their game":

Or, as Dylan imagined it:

A bullet from the back of a bush
Took Medgar Evers' blood
A finger fired the trigger to his name
A handle hid out in the dark
A hand set the spark
Two eyes took the aim
Behind a man's brain
But he can't be blamed
He's only a pawn in their game

A South politician preaches to the poor white man
"You got more than the blacks, don't complain
You're better than them, you been born with white skin, " they explain
And the Negro's name
Is used, it is plain
For the politician's gain
As he rises to fame
And the poor white remains
On the caboose of the train
But it ain't him to blame
He's only a pawn in their game

The deputy sheriffs, the soldiers, the governors get paid
And the marshals and cops get the same
But the poor white man's used in the hands of them all like a tool
He's taught in his school
From the start by the rule
That the laws are with him
To protect his white skin
To keep up his hate
So he never thinks straight
'Bout the shape that he's in
But it ain't him to blame
He's only a pawn in their game

From the poverty shacks, he looks from the cracks to the tracks
And the hoofbeats pound in his brain
And he's taught how to walk in a pack
Shoot in the back
With his fist in a clinch
To hang and to lynch
To hide 'neath the hood
To kill with no pain
Like a dog on a chain
He ain't got no name
But it ain't him to blame
He's only a pawn in their game

Today, Medgar Evers was buried from the bullet he caught
They lowered him down as a king
But when the shadowy sun sets on the one
That fired the gun
He'll see by his grave
On the stone that remains
Carved next to his name
His epitaph plain
Only a pawn in their game
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

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Re: to rig or not to rig?

Postby iambiguous » Wed Sep 02, 2020 7:49 pm

Here we go...

From the NYT:

'The new C.D.C. guidance is the latest sign of an accelerating race for a vaccine to greatly ease a pandemic that has killed more than 184,000 Americans. The documents were sent out last week, the same day that President Trump told the nation in his speech to the Republican convention that a vaccine might arrive before the end of the year.

'Over the past week, both Dr. Anthony S. Fauci, the country’s top infectious disease expert, and Dr. Stephen Hahn, who heads the Food and Drug Administration, have said in interviews with news organizations that a vaccine could be available for certain groups before clinical trials have been completed, if the data were overwhelmingly positive.

'Public health experts agree that agencies at all levels of government should urgently prepare for what will eventually be a vast, complex effort to vaccinate hundreds of millions of Americans. But the possibility of a rollout in late October or early November has also heightened concerns that the Trump administration is seeking to rush the distribution of a vaccine — or simply to suggest that one is possible — before Election Day on Nov. 3.

“This timeline of the initial deployment at the end of October is deeply worrisome for the politicization of public health and the potential safety ramifications,” said Saskia Popescu, an infection prevention epidemiologist based in Arizona. “It’s hard not to see this as a push for a pre-election vaccine.”'


Yes, the politicization of the Covid 19 vaccine as a way to "rig" the election.

So how far will Trump go here? And how will Biden react to it?

Also, what might the reactions be from those here who are fierce Trump supporters, but are also fierce anti-vaxxers?

"Well, maybe this time it's okay."
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

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Re: to rig or not to rig?

Postby iambiguous » Thu Sep 03, 2020 7:42 pm

The worst case scenario:

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/03/opin ... cracy.html

Or, for some, like Joker...the best case scenario?

'Armed political skirmishes are erupting on the streets, and scholars are tracking a rise in violence and instability as the election draws near. Gun sales keep shattering records. Mercifully, I suppose, there’s a nationwide shortage of ammo. Then there is the pandemic, mass unemployment, natural disasters on every coast, intense racial and partisan polarization, and not a little bit of lockdown-induced collective stir craziness.

'There’s also this: [My wife] skipped the Republican convention. I watched it wall-to-wall, and it drove me to despair. In that four-night celebration of Trumpism, I caught a frightening glimpse of the ugly end of America, an authoritarian cult in full flower, and I am not keen to stick around much longer to see if my terrifying premonition pans out.'


Rigged or not this election sits astride events that more and more people are beginning to think about in "apocalyptic" terms.

Or, sure, perhaps, apoplectic terms.

'But the Republican convention also quickened my worries about American democracy even in the event that he loses. If Trumpism has charmed a sizable minority of Americans, and if the Trump dynasty retains its mass appeal, will America ever move on? Even if the country can get as far as a peaceful transition of power, can we expect anything like a functioning federal government beyond the inauguration?'

Think Ivanka and Don Jr.

Eric?
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

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Re: to rig or not to rig?

Postby iambiguous » Fri Sep 04, 2020 2:44 am

An "establishment conservative" on "playing out the nightmare scenario".

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/03/opin ... e=Homepage

'On the evening of Nov. 3, Americans settle nervously in front of their screens to await elections results. In the early hours Donald Trump seems to be having an excellent night. Counting the votes cast at polling places, Trump is winning Pennsylvania, Wisconsin and Michigan.

'Those states don’t even begin processing mail-in ballots until Election Day, yet Trump quickly declares victory. So do many other Republican candidates. The media complains that it’s premature, but Trumpworld is ecstatic.

'Democrats know that as many as 40 percent of the ballots are mail-in and still being counted, and those votes are likely to be overwhelmingly for Joe Biden, but they can’t control the emotions of that night. It’s a gut punch.

'As the mail-in ballots are tallied, the Trump leads erode. But the situation is genuinely unclear. Trump is on the warpath, raging about fraud.

'Within weeks there are lawsuits and challenges everywhere. It’s like Florida in 2000, but the chaos is happening in many states at once. Ballots are getting tossed because of problems with signatures, or not getting tossed, amid national frenzy.

'Trump says he won’t let Democrats steal the election and declares himself re-elected. It’s an outrage, but as when he used the White House for a campaign prop during his convention, who’s going to stop him?'


Exactly. it's not what he does but who is ready, willing and able to stop him from doing whatever he damn well pleases?

Some are optimistic that "the system" -- what others call the "deep state" -- will kick in and, if he loses, out he goes.

But when does he lose given the scenarios above?

Possible reactions:

Right wing/left wing.

'A certain kind of Republican takes to the streets to enforce Trump’s version of events. According to research done by Larry Bartels of Vanderbilt, 50 percent of Republicans and Republican-leaning independents believe “the traditional American way of life is disappearing so fast that we may have to use force to save it.” Nearly as many believe, “A time will come when patriotic Americans have to take the law into their own hands.”

'The left is in the streets, too. On the fringe of the left there are those who want to overthrow the racist, cisgendered, patriarchal neoliberal oligarchy. This is their chance at mayhem, too, and they seize it with sometimes violent passion.'


Pandemic and economic crisis aside, is it really all about this:

'It turns out, amid the existential crisis, there really is a group of sober people who are militant about America, who can see reality unblinkered by the lens of partisanship, and who are finally compelled to organize.

'They understand that, like so many American tragedies, this is largely about race. It’s about the transition from a certain kind of white-dominated America to a diverse America — and the people who will do anything to stop it./


Ironically, I just finished watching a five part documentary on Charles Manson. Though some suspect it to be bogus, others argue that Manson really was intent on starting a race war in America. To bring about his own rendition of a brave new world.

Might Trump and his ilk actually bring it about? Fascism for real.
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

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Re: to rig or not to rig?

Postby iambiguous » Fri Sep 04, 2020 5:56 pm

Read all about it: https://www.politico.com/news/2020/09/0 ... per-408945

From wiki:

'Stars and Stripes is an American military newspaper that focuses and reports on matters concerning the members of the United States Armed Forces. It operates from inside the Department of Defense, but is editorially separate from it, and its First Amendment protection is safeguarded by the United States Congress,[citation needed] to whom an independent ombudsman, who serves the readers' interests, regularly reports.

I read my own fair share of issues way back then. Of course back then I was on my way to becoming a full fledged Marxist.

For me though, here's the murky part: Did Trump himself order this? Did the Pentagon act on his orders?

If so, suppose Trump loses the election this November, claims Biden's victory was rigged by the Democrats and orders the Pentagon to keep him from office.

It's always the guys with the guns owned and operated by the state that get the last word. In Third World countries time and again. But what about here?
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

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Re: to rig or not to rig?

Postby iambiguous » Sun Sep 13, 2020 9:58 pm

Below is a column from a WP liberal offering up a "realist’s case against despair" pertaining to the election in November.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions ... Fstory-ans

But some of us are more inclined to suspect that this is more likely to unfold:

'From the first day of his campaign to this moment, he has made the same case: We can view four years of Trump as an aberration that we can put behind us. But eight years would set us on a course from which there would be no return.

'What’s striking is that many who are Biden’s strongest supporters and Trump’s most fervent foes are deeply skeptical of the old warhorse’s optimism.

'There is, first, the fear that even if Biden wins the popular vote — this now seems nearly inevitable — he might lose the electoral college. And if Biden prevails there, too, it is easy to imagine Trump trying to cling to power by discrediting the result with a pack of lies about the voting process.

'This, in turn, means that Trump’s most fervent loyalists will never accept a Biden victory. The new president will thus take over a nation torn asunder, and the most somber pessimists predict that armed militias could threaten public order.'


Why this more dire scenario?

Two words:

1] Donald
2] Trump

Isn't it reasonable to suspect, given what we have seen from him of late, that the worst of all possible worlds is more likely?
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

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Re: to rig or not to rig?

Postby iambiguous » Mon Sep 14, 2020 8:22 pm

Donald Trump 2024? 2028?

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/202 ... ction.html

'Speaking to a packed, largely maskless crowd in Nevada on Saturday night, President Donald Trump once again said he wanted to serve three terms in office. Trump said he is “probably entitled” to an additional four years in the White House. “Fifty-two days from now, we’re going to win Nevada, and we’re going to win four more years in the White House,” Trump told a crowd of at least 5,000 people in Minden, Nevada, that was standing shoulder to shoulder. “And then after that, we’ll negotiate, right? Because we’re probably—based on the way we were treated—we are probably entitled to another four after that.”'

Over and again, being a blustering narcissist, Trump will say things like this. And it can be about practically anything.

What counts though is what he is actually setting into motion behind the curtains. And, if it does involve, as with Putin, being president for life, how far is willing to go to bring it about.

And, then, most important of all, are those with actual power -- political, economic, police, military, paramilitary -- willing to back him up on it.

What is extraordinary here is that more and more people seem to be genuinely concerned about how this might all play out.

And many argue that the thousands upon thousands of white working class "no-nothings" that back him really would stand behind him if he shot and killed someone walking down the street. There's almost nothing that he can't do as far as they are concerned.

He can spout things like this...

'During the rally, Trump once again raised doubts about the reliability of mail-in voting, and without citing any evidence said that Democrats will use it to cheat. “The Democrats are trying to rig this election because that’s the only way they’re going to win,” he said. Trump characterized mail-in voting as “the greatest scam in the history of presidential politics” and said Democrats are sending ballots “to dogs” as part of his effort to raise questions about the integrity of the vote. “Everybody is getting ballots,” he said. “Probably everybody but Republicans.”'

...and Trumpworld's equivalent of "the masses" would simply fall for it hook, line and sinker.

Wasn't it H. L. Mencken who once suggested that, "no one ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of American people".

Liberals have one rendition of this, conservatives another.
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

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Re: to rig or not to rig?

Postby iambiguous » Mon Sep 14, 2020 9:12 pm

The part about power:

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/14/nyre ... e=Homepage


'New York City’s largest police union had not endorsed a candidate for president in decades when its leader, Patrick J. Lynch, stepped to the lectern last month at President Trump’s golf club in New Jersey.

“Mr. President, we are fighting for our lives out there,” Mr. Lynch said, in the all-caps cadence familiar to any casual viewer of the New York nightly news. “We don’t want this to spread to the rest of the country. We need your strong voice across the country.”

Mr. Lynch said his union, the Police Benevolent Association, was endorsing Mr. Trump because city and state leaders had been relentlessly scapegoating hard-working police officers and allowing chaos to reign on the streets.'


And what of those in the military and paramilitary forces?

How "pro Trump" might they be if Trump refuses to step down?

Look at Vladimir Putin in Russia or Xi Jinping in China. Does anyone here believe that they don't have the backing of the guys with the guns and the tanks and the nuclear warheads?
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

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Re: to rig or not to rig?

Postby Peter Kropotkin » Mon Sep 14, 2020 10:35 pm

I think that the ever changing consensus is that
IQ45 will declare martial law, either right before the election
or right after....the question becomes, does the military
actually follow through on their prior statement that
the military will in no way, shape or form, interfere
with the upcoming election.....implying that the military,
at least the joint chief of staff, will not participate in
any pre or post election actions....involving the elections...
even though it is their sworn duty to protect the constitution
which should mean they are suppose to interfere with IQ45
declaring martial law... which is in violation of his sworn duty
to.. "will to the best of my ability, preserve, protect and defend
the constitution of the United State"

There is no way that one can defend declaring martial law and still
be able to say "preserve, protect and defend the constitution...."

so the head of the Joint chief of staff has already declared that
any declaration of martial law to be a political problem, not
a military problem...which I believe to be a violation of his
sworn oath to "preserve, protect and defend the constitution
of the United States"

in other words, if IQ45 does declare martial law, that is a gross
violation of the constitution and the military, must in defense of
their oath to the constitution, must engaged with IQ45 to return the
nation to its democratic constitution... in which the military must
use all force necessary to overturn any presidential declaration of
martial law....failure to do so, means they violate their oath to the
constitution....to "preserve, protect, defend the constitution of the
United States"

so if the president violates his oath, the military must act to
obey their sworn duty to defend the constitution....

it is not a political question that the joint chief of staff believes
it to be... it is a question of the military obeying their sworn
duty as military officers to "preserve, protect and defend
the constitution of the United States"......

to those who hold that martial law is the only answer,
are violating in a very direct way, the constitution and its
mandate....to approve any type of martial law is to announce
that you approve of and agree to the end of the constitution
of United States and what it stands for....

that you have not only in theory, but in practice believe
in dictatorships such as the ones by Stalin and Hitler...

for any violation of the constitution is a call for and acting
for a dictatorship by IQ45.....

You have called for the end of democracy and what it stands for.....

you have, in every sense of the word, committed TREASON against
the United States..... you are no different then Hitler or his followers
in attempting to overthrow the American system of government.....

I think each and every one of you must think about what side
of this issue you intend to act upon.... silence is complicity
to this act of TREASON... to say, a pox on both houses, is to
be complicit in this TREASON against America....
if you are not marching in the streets against Martial law
and it outright meaning of an dictatorship in America,
you are complicit in the dictatorship.......

no action against martial law, for any reason, is to say, I am
ok with a dictatorship in America... and you have, denounced
and violated the very constitution of the United States..
which is nothing short of TREASON.......

this is no longer a theoretical question.. it is less then
three months away... how will you respond to martial
law and dictatorship?

think about it because whither you believe it or not,
you will be called to action, by one side or the other..
and which side will you engage with?

think long and hard... because becoming a dictatorship is a
very real possibility right now and what is your answer to
the question of martial law and dictatorship...

for America and its democracy or for martial law/dictatorship
and against the constitution and democracy?

decide....

Kropotkin
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wind up with neither."
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Re: to rig or not to rig?

Postby MagsJ » Tue Sep 15, 2020 3:23 pm

Peter said: “so if the president violates his oath, the military must act to
obey their sworn duty to defend the constitution....”


Depends what they’re defending, if you ask me.. a constitution should at least attempt to benefit all, not some or a few. I don’t actually know if your constitution does, but it doesn’t seem like it does, by the state your country is in.
The possibility of anything we can imagine existing is endless and infinite.. - MagsJ

I haven't got the time to spend the time reading something that is telling me nothing, as I will never be able to get back that time, and I may need it for something at some point in time.. Wait, What! - MagsJ

You’re suggestions and I, just simply don’t mix.. like oil on water, or a really bad DJ - MagsJ
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Re: to rig or not to rig?

Postby iambiguous » Thu Sep 17, 2020 6:42 pm

Here is the conservative rendition of the left-wing post-election "coup":

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/16/opin ... e=Homepage

'The conservative Federalist website put its point of view in vivid terms on Sept. 11: “The Left Is Setting the Stage for a Coup If Trump Wins.”

'John Daniel Davidson, the Federalist’s political editor, warned that 'the last three months of rioting and looting by Antifa and Black Lives Matter activists have in some ways been a dress rehearsal for what the left is planning in November.

'According to Davidson, left-wing Democrats are primed to adopt a strategy to 'contest the results and trigger lengthy litigations and ballot recounts, working in the meantime to come up with enough absentee ballots to put Biden over the edge. In that case, while the lawsuits and recounts are underway, the left plans to do what it’s been doing for months now: take to the streets.'


And...

'In the event of a close election, or an election unresolved on Nov. 4, the project advised that the Trump campaign and local Republicans might well take the following steps, including:

Attempting to halt the counting of mail-in ballots by filing cases in state court or leaning on Republican leaders to stop vote counting or to certify a result early, without waiting for the certified results from the Secretary of State.'


On the other hand, how likely is it that, say, Barr's Justice Department will go after those who employ tactics to keep Trump in office as opposed to those to aim to get him out?
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

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Re: to rig or not to rig?

Postby iambiguous » Thu Sep 17, 2020 8:28 pm

Higher and higher the stakes get raised:

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/17/opin ... e=Homepage

Basically, this is the voice of someone that many [including myself] see as being an insider in one or another rendition of the Deep State. My own is embedded is this particular narrative: https://www.ilovephilosophy.com/viewtop ... s#p2187045

But conservatives and reationaries have their own take on this as well.

It's hopelessly "idealistic"...as though the "American experiment" had nothing to do with political economy but really is straight out of a "one man, one vote" high school civics text. Or at least the ones that were foisted on me way back when.


'What’s at Stake in This Election? The American Democratic Experiment'

'We hear often that the November election is the most consequential in our lifetime. But the importance of the election is not just which candidate or which party wins. Voters also face the question of whether the American democratic experiment, one of the boldest political innovations in human history, will survive.

Our democracy’s enemies, foreign and domestic, want us to concede in advance that our voting systems are faulty or fraudulent; that sinister conspiracies have distorted the political will of the people; that our public discourse has been perverted by the news media and social networks riddled with prejudice, lies and ill will; that judicial institutions, law enforcement and even national security have been twisted, misused and misdirected to create anxiety and conflict, not justice and social peace.'

'If those are the results of this tumultuous election year, we are lost, no matter which candidate wins. No American, and certainly no American leader, should want such an outcome. Total destruction and sowing salt in the earth of American democracy is a catastrophe well beyond simple defeat and a poison for generations. An electoral victory on these terms would be no victory at all. The judgment of history, reflecting on the death of enlightened democracy, would be harsh.'


Still, it's the volume that is being raised here that piques my interest.

Is this for real? Is there an increasing possibility that the election results will catapult us into chaos?

Stay tuned.
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

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Re: to rig or not to rig?

Postby iambiguous » Sat Sep 19, 2020 1:25 am

As if the political stakes embedded in this election weren't already high enough: https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/18/us/r ... e=Homepage
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

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Re: to rig or not to rig?

Postby promethean75 » Sat Sep 19, 2020 10:41 am

And those fuckers got another conservative already lined up and ready to put in there.

Y'all know what this means: with the loss of Notorious RBG, all gays are going back to hell and all women back to the kitchen.
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Re: to rig or not to rig?

Postby Meno_ » Sat Sep 19, 2020 4:28 pm

promethean75 wrote:And those fuckers got another conservative already lined up and ready to put in there.

Y'all know what this means: with the loss of Notorious RBG, all gays are going back to hell and all women back to the kitchen.



What about Pandora's box , whatever taken out cannot be put back?

(come hell or high water)
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Re: to rig or not to rig?

Postby MagsJ » Sat Sep 19, 2020 6:11 pm

MagsJ wrote:Peter said: “so if the president violates his oath, the military must act to
obey their sworn duty to defend the constitution....”


Depends what they’re defending, if you ask me.. a constitution should at least attempt to benefit all, not some or a few. I don’t actually know if your constitution does, but it doesn’t seem like it does, by the state your country is in.

Does it?
The possibility of anything we can imagine existing is endless and infinite.. - MagsJ

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You’re suggestions and I, just simply don’t mix.. like oil on water, or a really bad DJ - MagsJ
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Re: to rig or not to rig?

Postby Meno_ » Sat Sep 19, 2020 6:25 pm

MagsJ wrote:
MagsJ wrote:Peter said: “so if the president violates his oath, the military must act to
obey their sworn duty to defend the constitution....”


Depends what they’re defending, if you ask me.. a constitution should at least attempt to benefit all, not some or a few. I don’t actually know if your constitution does, but it doesn’t seem like it does, by the state your country is in.

Does it?




Again, a work in progress, hopefully somewhat clarified come this November
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Re: to rig or not to rig?

Postby iambiguous » Sun Sep 20, 2020 10:12 pm

Now this from and an inside the beltway conservative, Joe Scarborough, at the Washington Post:

'Masha Gessen observed in “Surviving Autocracy” that Americans have always granted incoming presidents a presumption of good faith because, until Trump, “no political actor sought to destroy American government and political systems.” If that conclusion seems as overwrought as the claims cited above against Obama, Bush and Clinton, consider what Trump has offered up publicly: that Article II of the Constitution gives him unlimited power; that he trusts Vladimir Putin’s word more than that of the U.S. intelligence community; that the transcript of his call to a foreign leader was “perfect” even though it proved he was blackmailing a foreign country to dig up dirt on his political rival; and, of course, that U.S. military leaders were “losers” and “pussies.”

'Americans should heed poet Maya Angelou’s warning that when someone tells you who they are, you should believe them the first time. Over the past four years, Trump has told the world that he loathes constitutional limits and will do anything to maintain power — whether that means accepting political help from foreign countries or attacking America’s democratic process as “rigged.”

'We know the storm is coming. The question is whether we will be prepared for America’s next cataclysmic event.'


There's still a big chunk of me convinced that, one way or another, "the center will hold". It's just getting smaller everyday.
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

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Re: to rig or not to rig?

Postby iambiguous » Mon Sep 21, 2020 8:28 pm

A reminder of what is at stake in this election for both liberals and conservatives. So, sure, if rigging the election is what it takes to pivot the country left or right, a nihilist such as myself might say, "go for it".

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/20/opin ... e=Homepage

'The death of the iconic Supreme Court Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg has shocked the political world, altered the contours of the upcoming election and induced an overwhelming dread among liberals who fear some basic rights could now be in jeopardy.'

And this...

'This is all about power for a group of people who feel their grip on power slipping away.

'They are trying to reshape the courts for a generation, if not longer, so that as their numerical advantage slips away, their power imbalance will have already been enshrined. As America becomes less religious and less white, more galvanized to fight climate change, more open to legalizing marijuana and more aware of systemic racism, the religious conservative spine of the Republican Party is desperate for a way to save a way of life that may soon be rendered a relic.

'According to the Pew Research Center, 78 percent of white evangelical voters are Republicans or lean Republican. So are 62 percent of white men without a college degree, 60 percent of rural southerners and 57 percent of people who attend religious services weekly.

'Many of those demographics are under threat. The United States will be majority-minority by 2045 and by 2060 there will be nearly as many Hispanic children in the country as white ones.

'At the same time, the percentage of Americans who are not affiliated with a religion keeps rising — up 9 percentage points since 2009, to 26 percent in 2019 — and the percentage of people identifying as Christians keeps falling — down 12 percentage points, to 65 percent over the same decade, according to another report from Pew.'


"One of us" versus "one of them" may well be construed as an existential contraption rooted in dasein, but that doesn't change the actual reality of political economy and the role it plays in the lives of all of us.

The name of the game is power. And the Republicans seem clearly more aware of that when it comes to "rigging" things.
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

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Re: to rig or not to rig?

Postby iambiguous » Mon Sep 21, 2020 10:19 pm

How about this: to pack or not to pack?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions ... reject-it/

'Democrats are understandably furious and fearful over the likelihood that President Trump and the Republican-controlled Senate will replace the late Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg with a conservative. That does not justify packing the Supreme Court with progressives in retaliation.'

On the contrary, some will insist, if it's all about power in the end, and packing it enables you to pursue your own policy goals through the courts, then this particular end justifies this particular means.

Only you have to be willing to admit that it can work for the other side too.

Then this part:

'The judicial branch’s primary virtue, and the reason it is a separate branch of government, is that it’s nonpolitical. The separation of powers preserves liberty because it prevents those who make the laws from applying them. Independence of the judiciary is perhaps the single most crucial innovation of modern liberal democracies. Virtually all tyrannies insist that judicial power be subject to the will of the government because they know that tyrannical power ultimately rests on force, and that means killing, suppressing or imprisoning their enemies.'

Again, for some, this is straight out of a hopelessly idealistic high school civics text. As though it's just purely a coincidence that conservative Supreme Court Justices interpret the law in sync with their political prejudices while liberal justices do the same. As though we actually could choose the equivalent of philosopher-kings here.

So, sure, if your own political prejudices are liberal and Trump gets his 6 to 3 conservative Supreme Court, then, if, in turn, Biden wins the White House and Democrats take the Senate, pack the damn thing.

Well, providing we escape "the coup".
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

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Re: to rig or not to rig?

Postby iambiguous » Thu Sep 24, 2020 10:16 pm

Pick the scenario most to your liking:

1]

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/09/2 ... fer-421025

'Congressional Republicans say that if President Donald Trump loses the election there will be a peaceful transition. But they’re not explaining how, even as the president threatens to upend the constitutional order.

'While Republicans gently pushed back Thursday against Trump’s refusal this week to commit to a peaceful transition of power, most declined to say what they would do if the president refuses to leave office, dismissing it as a hypothetical situation.

'But Sen. Mitt Romney (R-Utah), a vocal critic of the president, said he has faith his Republican colleagues will step up if they need to.

'"There's no question ... that all the people who had sworn to support the Constitution would assure that there would be a peaceful transition of power, including the president,” Romney said.

'Senate Majority Whip John Thune (R-S.D.) added that his party would not stand idly by if Trump tried to stay in office after losing: "Republicans believe in the rule of law and we believe in the Constitution. And that's what dictates our election process."'
**

** But the GOP isn't saying what they'll do if the president resists leaving office.

2]

https://www.nytimes.com/live/2020/09/24 ... e=Homepage

'A day after President Trump’s refusal to commit to a peaceful transfer of power drew rebukes from Democrats, nervous distancing from Republicans and attempts at reassurance from the White House, Mr. Trump weighed in again Thursday and said that he was not sure the November election could be “honest” because mail-in ballots are “a whole big scam.”

'“We want to make sure that the election is honest and I’m not sure that it can be,” Mr. Trump told reporters before leaving the White House for North Carolina.

'Mr. Trump was responding to a reporter’s question about whether he would consider the November election results legitimate only if he wins.

'Instead of repeating his press secretary’s assurance earlier in the day that he would accept the results of a “free and fair” election, Mr. Trump instead launched into his latest complaint about mail-in ballots, which he has repeatedly asserted without evidence are likely to be tainted by widespread fraud, and suggested that the election will not, in fact, be fairly decided.

'“So, we have to be very careful with the ballots. The ballots — you know, that’s a whole big scam,” Mr. Trump said, citing what he said were news reports about ballots found “in a river” and a trash can.


For me though the bottom line is still this: If Trump loses the election and refuses to leave office, who in the government is charged with removing him anyway? And what if they refuse to?
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

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Re: to rig or not to rig?

Postby iambiguous » Thu Sep 24, 2020 10:19 pm

He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

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