to rig or not to rig?

Discussion of the recent unfolding of history.

to rig or not to rig?

Postby iambiguous » Sat Aug 15, 2020 8:08 pm

Let's suppose that someone who backs Trump agrees that he is flat out trying to steal the election. And this is perfectly okay with him. Why? Because he is a right-wing conservative and he rationalizes any and all means to keep Trump in power. Why? Because from his frame of mind Biden and the liberals are so despicable as government policy makers, nothing is not justified from keeping them out of power.

Now, let's turn it around. Suppose it was determined that in some manner Biden and the Democrats were pursuing a campaign strategy that involved rigging the election so that Trump had no chance of ever being re-elected in a fair contest.

Would that, could that too be rationalized by some liberals/Democrats as "okay this time" to get rid of a man that they deem to be a dire threat to the country?

How about liberals here. Does the end -- upending Trump -- justify any and all means? Can "the stakes" get so high that a "nihilistic" approach to elections becomes the least objectionable path?

This of course revolves around the manner in which I construe objectivism in politics. For the objectivists at the radical extremes of the political spectrum [left and right] "democracy and the rule of law" becomes all that more problematic. If it comes down to "one of us" or "one of them" in regard to "ends", how to deal with that "for all practical purposes" in regards to "means"?

It's like those arguments that pop up from time to time regarding what is or is not appropriate to display as art in museums. Liberals have their taboo subjects, conservatives their own. Captured here for example: https://youtu.be/gtb2Wn8tEmM

I merely take this further and suggest that political ends themselves are really only political prejudices rooted existentially in dasein.
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

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Re: to rig or not to rig?

Postby iambiguous » Sun Aug 16, 2020 6:51 pm

He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

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Re: to rig or not to rig?

Postby iambiguous » Sun Aug 16, 2020 7:11 pm

Here we go...

https://www.nytimes.com/live/2020/08/16 ... e=Homepage

'With Joe Biden leading in many public polls, and Democrats getting ready to kick off their national convention on Monday, President Trump’s drive to create confusion and undermine confidence in the election is accelerating, as he attacks mail-in voting and praises his postmaster general despite criticism over mail service and an investigation opened by the Postal Service’s inspector general.

'In an appearance on CNN on Sunday, Mark Meadows, the White House chief of staff, defended the president’s opposition to universal mail-in ballots, which Mr. Trump has called “the mail-in scam,” making charges without evidence that efforts by states to help people vote by mail in the pandemic would lead to widespread voter fraud — a claim that even some Republicans dispute. Mr. Trump has said that higher voter participation would hurt Republican candidates.

When CNN host Jake Tapper pushed back, saying, “there’s no evidence of widespread voter fraud,” Mr. Meadows said, “there’s no evidence that there’s not, either.”'


Could the stakes possibly be higher? And imagine if the Democrats had managed to gain control of the Senate in 2018...

Principles and political ideals aside, it's all about who has the actual power to create, sustain and then enforce one outcome rather than another. And, who knows, this may once again all come down to a vote in the Supreme Court.

And while all politicians, liberal and conservative, choreograph elections into staged productions, with Trump, nothing is off the table. Indeed, when it comes to bringing his own set of "facts" to the issues and doubling down on the lies, he is in a class all his own.

If I do say so myself.
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

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Re: to rig or not to rig?

Postby iambiguous » Sun Aug 16, 2020 9:40 pm

Who woulda/coulda thunk it?

Op-Ed headline: "The country’s future could hinge on postal workers"

This op-ed:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions ... Fstory-ans

'In the 1997 film “The Postman,” set in post-apocalyptic America, Kevin Costner plays a drifter trying to restore order to the United States by providing one essential service, mail delivery. In the story, hate crimes, racially motivated attacks and a plague have caused the breakdown of society as we know it. In his quest to restore order and dignity to the nation, the Postman tries to recruit other postal workers to help rebuild the U.S. government. But Costner’s character is opposed by the evil General Bethlehem, who is fighting to suppress the postal carriers so he can establish a totalitarian government. Fortunately, our hero, gaining inspiration from the motto, “neither snow nor rain nor heat nor gloom of night,” fights on against Bethlehem and saves the country.

'Not surprisingly, the movie was panned by critics and was a financial disaster. I mean really, racial strife and a plague so bad that it threatened our society? And even if that happened, who would try to destroy the Postal Service? Where do they come up with these crazy plots?'


The Postman!

Hmm, did Trump perchance have a cameo appearance in this film? Could this be where he got the idea?

'In retrospect, maybe we should give the movie another look. Today, as we struggle with social upheaval, soaring debt, record unemployment, a runaway pandemic, and rising threats from China and Russia, President Trump is actively working to undermine every major institution in this country. He has planted the seeds of doubt in the minds of many Americans that our institutions aren’t functioning properly. '

Seeds of doubt. Indeed, given great swaths of an American electorate as utterly unsophisticated as are great swaths of Trumpworld and that is really all it might take. Just convince enough of them that it can happen and then what does in fact really happen becomes completely irrelevant.

Stay tuned...
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

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Re: to rig or not to rig?

Postby iambiguous » Tue Aug 18, 2020 3:00 am

It's war!

Or, rather, the political equivalent of it.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/17/opin ... e=Homepage

'This summer, a bipartisan group of former government officials, political professionals, lawyers and journalists held a series of war game exercises about how the 2020 election might go wrong. Convened by the law professor Rosa Brooks and the historian Nils Gilman, it was called the Transition Integrity Project, and the results were alarming.

'“We assess with a high degree of likelihood that November’s elections will be marked by a chaotic legal and political landscape,” said a resulting report. President Trump, it said, “is likely to contest the result by both legal and extralegal means.”

'Participants in the Transition Integrity Project played out tactics the president might try if threatened with defeat, including federalizing the National Guard to stop the counting of mail-in ballots. In each scenario, the decisions of the Department of Justice, state officials and the candidates themselves proved pivotal.

'But so was the willingness of masses of people to protest. “A show of numbers in the streets — and actions in the streets — may be decisive factors in determining what the public perceives as a just and legitimate outcome,” said the report.


That's really what it comes down. Actual flesh and blood human beings pouring over the political landscape, scouring anything that Trump might pursue, organizing to form a network [on and offline] and possessing the ability to take it to the streets when necessary.

'So a coalition of progressive groups, as well as some anti-authoritarian conservative ones, is organizing under the rubric Protect the Results to get people into the streets if Trump tries to cheat in November. “It’s a pretty massive effort that’s underway,” said Rashad Robinson, executive director of Color of Change, which is part of the coalition. Activists all over the country, he said, are “really gearing up for this fight.”'

The bigger the coalition here the better.

Note to conservatives:

Please connect us to any reports you come across that night indicate Biden and the Democrats are no less willing to employ dirty tricks to win this thing.

But: No Kids please. And no rabid reactionaries -- QAnon types -- who post idiotic fulminations that have as little intelligence attached to them as one would expect.


Oh, and just a reminder:

My arguments on this thread are no less the existential embodiment of my own political prejudices. I recognize that had my birthday resulted in my not being drafted into the Army all those years ago, I could very well still be a rabid Christian, a racist, sexist, homophobe, a white working class supporter of Donald Trump.

Contingency, chance and change are no less embedded in my life than in yours.

I just recognize this now in a way that the objectivists do not.
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

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Re: to rig or not to rig?

Postby promethean75 » Tue Aug 18, 2020 1:05 pm

frankly i'd love to see it happen, biggs. i almost hope trump gets re-elected or refuses to leave the white house if he doesn't, because i believe both will result in mayhem and destruktion. that's what i wanna see... 'the whole shithouse go up in flames' (mr. mojo risin).
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Re: to rig or not to rig?

Postby iambiguous » Tue Aug 18, 2020 6:27 pm

promethean75 wrote:frankly i'd love to see it happen, biggs. i almost hope trump gets re-elected or refuses to leave the white house if he doesn't, because i believe both will result in mayhem and destruktion. that's what i wanna see... 'the whole shithouse go up in flames' (mr. mojo risin).


Of course you're just paraphrasing Joker.

Or was he just paraphrasing you? :wink:

Still, with the dow jones heading back in the general direction of 30,000, it might take longer than even he anticipated for things to fall apart. :o :shock:
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

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Re: to rig or not to rig?

Postby promethean75 » Tue Aug 18, 2020 6:36 pm

No joker wants to turn the world into something out of a Slayer video. I, on the other hand, want to turn it to ashes so that new flowers might grow.
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Re: to rig or not to rig?

Postby iambiguous » Tue Aug 18, 2020 6:40 pm

promethean75 wrote:No joker wants to turn the world into something out of a Slayer video. I, on the other hand, want to turn it to ashes so that new flowers might grow.


Of course now you're just paraphrasing, among others, Vladimir Lenin.

Just out of curiosity, did he have elections back then to rig? :-k
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

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Re: to rig or not to rig?

Postby iambiguous » Tue Aug 18, 2020 10:21 pm

Score one for democracy?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions ... Fstory-ans

'Because the crush of President Trump’s corruption and wrongdoing has been so relentless, it often can seem like media scrutiny and congressional oversight have been reduced to nothing more than dead letters.

'But in the case of Postmaster General Louis DeJoy’s operational changes to the U.S. Postal Service, the scrutiny might actually be having a real impact:

"The U.S. Postal Service will halt its controversial cost-cutting initiatives until after the election — canceling service reductions, reinstating overtime hours and ceasing the removal of mail-sorting machines and public collection boxes, Postmaster General Louis DeJoy announced in a statement Tuesday.

The declaration comes as lawmakers prepared to question DeJoy and USPS board of governors Chairman Robert M. Duncan in a Friday hearing in the Senate and at a Monday hearing in the House on those policy changes, which have caused mail slowdowns and threatened to jeopardize ballot collection during the November election."


'This is to no small degree a good development. The statement from DeJoy looks like a real climb-down, one that was brought about by relentless media and public pressure.


Of course a Trump stooge saying he is going to do something does not mean that anything will actually get done. There has to be a way to know for sure that the claims are being carried out.

Anyone here care to take on that task?

Also, anything from conservatives yet on the Biden campaign's efforts to rig the election?
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

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Re: to rig or not to rig?

Postby promethean75 » Tue Aug 18, 2020 10:54 pm

Well I pushed a radical conspiracy theory I once had about how they're all in it together, how they put trumpf in office to destroy the west's trust in conservatism. Trumpf is a socialist puppet and a propaganda tool. A purposeful idiot who is supposed to be a complete buffoon, ruin conservatism, and make way for the transformation into state capitalism. In the theory, I mean.

Yushimosho Shushagunyen also had a similar theory.
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Re: to rig or not to rig?

Postby Peter Kropotkin » Tue Aug 18, 2020 11:15 pm

promethean75 wrote:Well I pushed a radical conspiracy theory I once had about how they're all in it together, how they put trumpf in office to destroy the west's trust in conservatism. Trumpf is a socialist puppet and a propaganda tool. A purposeful idiot who is supposed to be a complete buffoon, ruin conservatism, and make way for the transformation into state capitalism. In the theory, I mean.

Yushimosho Shushagunyen also had a similar theory.



K: ok, where is the evidence that anyone pushed IQ45 into being a "socialist puppet"
when in fact, it is quite clear he is a radical conservative who has bitten into
the various conspiracy theories that the right wing live on....

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Re: to rig or not to rig?

Postby promethean75 » Tue Aug 18, 2020 11:44 pm

I dont have any evidence, pete. That's why its called a radical conspiracy theory. Duh!
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Re: to rig or not to rig?

Postby Peter Kropotkin » Wed Aug 19, 2020 12:00 am

promethean75 wrote:I dont have any evidence, pete. That's why its called a radical conspiracy theory. Duh!


K: one of my many failings is sometimes I take things very, very literal....

I often find myself in trouble because I quite often take statements as a literal
statement...my bad....

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Re: to rig or not to rig?

Postby promethean75 » Wed Aug 19, 2020 12:06 am

No you're good. I just tried to make a funny.

You might be a highly functioning autistic though. Senses of humor are very difficult for those folks.
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Re: to rig or not to rig?

Postby promethean75 » Wed Aug 19, 2020 12:08 am

... or I could just be a terrible comedian.

Buh dumb tshirt

Damn auto correct.

Buh dum tshh

(See like that)
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Re: to rig or not to rig?

Postby Peter Kropotkin » Wed Aug 19, 2020 12:18 am

promethean75 wrote:No you're good. I just tried to make a funny.

You might be a highly functioning autistic though. Senses of humor are very difficult for those folks.



K: I have been told I am, in person, funny enough to have become
a standup comedian........ that is my story and I'm sticking to it....

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Re: to rig or not to rig?

Postby iambiguous » Wed Aug 19, 2020 7:38 pm

The postal predicament.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/19/opin ... e=Homepage

'The threat to the 2020 election’s legitimacy finally broke through into everyday conversation last week. People who pay little attention to politics started talking about whether President Trump was looking to mess with the United States Postal Service to slow down the receipt of mail-in ballots.

'Mr. Trump was not shy about it. He told Maria Bartiromo on Fox Business Network last Thursday that he was pushing back against Democrats’ demand for further U.S.P.S. funding in the latest Covid-19 relief bill: “Now they need that money in order to have the post office work, so it can take all of these millions and millions of ballots …. But if they don’t get those two items, that means you can’t have universal mail-in voting, because they’re not equipped to have it.”'


In some respects, there are those who insist that this is precisely the sort of thing that attracts them to Trump. He cuts through all the ludicrous high school civics text idealism...all the talking head bullshit...and notes how power actually does manifest itself re the Washington/Wall Street nexus. And, sure, there's that cynical part of me that can appreciate this too. But my own political prejudices still yank me in the direction of wanting him to fail here. So, once again, drawn and quartered.

Then this part:

'The end game here is a bit curious because Republicans traditionally have relied on mail-in balloting to get out the vote, and there are already signs that Republican turnout might be hurt by his rantings. How else to explain the president seeking to distinguish between good “absentee” voting and bad “mail-in” balloting and urging Floridians to vote by mail? And how else to explain the president not only repeatedly voting by mail but using a third person — what Mr. Trump refers to as “ballot harvesting” — to deliver his own ballot to election officials in the Florida primary on Tuesday?'

That's the thing with political idealism: it always comes down to context. Who knows, one day it might be to the Democrats advantage to slow down the mail around an election.

It's like liberals bitching about the Electoral College. Then one day down the road it's a Democrat who loses the popular vote but wins in the EC.

In other words, it is ever and always about political power. And doing whatever it takes to win.

Or, perhaps:

'If Mr. Trump is not really concerned about fraud, what’s the real end game? His unsubstantiated claims of voter fraud may be aimed at sowing chaos during the election and depressing turnout to help his side win election. Worse, it could be calculated to delegitimize the election results, which could allow Mr. Trump to contest a close election or weaken a Biden presidency.'

Here then it revolves around how events regarding the coronavirus and economy play out between now an November. If they make the election a close one, Trump is far more able to, say, suggest endless recounts, or to re-do the election, or to take the squabble to the Supreme Court.
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

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Re: to rig or not to rig?

Postby iambiguous » Wed Aug 19, 2020 9:56 pm

The "worst case scenario" scenario...

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/18/opin ... e=Homepage

'Here is a sentence I never in a million years thought that I would ever write or read: This November, for the first time in our history, the United States of America may not be able to conduct a free and fair election and, should President Trump be defeated by Joe Biden, have a legitimate and peaceful transfer of power.

'Because if half the country thinks their votes were not fully counted due to deliberate sabotaging of the U.S. Postal Service by this administration, and if the other half are made to believe by the president that any mail-in vote for Biden was fraudulent, that would not result in just a disputed election — not another Bush v. Gore for the Supreme Court to sort out — that would be the end of American democracy as we know it. It also isn’t hyperbole to say it could sow the seeds of another Civil War.

The threat is real.'


Uh, define "civil war"?

But point taken.

For some, the thing about mail-in ballots is that it is just easier to imagine the possibility of fraud...of things being "rigged". Especially given the reality of the coronavirus. After all, suppose the dreaded "second wave" hits well before the election. Spurring people in droves to opt for the mail. All Trump need do then is to make enough people believe in the possibility of fraud to make his argument stick.
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

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Re: to rig or not to rig?

Postby Peter Kropotkin » Wed Aug 19, 2020 10:39 pm

I see IQ45 as being the boy who cried wolf... far too
many times before...You sort of learn to tune him out.....

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Re: to rig or not to rig?

Postby iambiguous » Fri Aug 21, 2020 8:15 pm

The Facebook factor...

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/21/tech ... e=Homepage

'SAN FRANCISCO — Facebook spent years preparing to ward off any tampering on its site ahead of November’s presidential election. Now the social network is getting ready in case President Trump interferes once the vote is over.

'Employees at the Silicon Valley company are laying out contingency plans and walking through postelection scenarios that include attempts by Mr. Trump or his campaign to use the platform to delegitimize the results, people with knowledge of Facebook’s plans said.

'Facebook is preparing steps to take should Mr. Trump wrongly claim on the site that he won another four-year term, said the people, who spoke on the condition of anonymity. Facebook is also working through how it might act if Mr. Trump tries to invalidate the results by declaring that the Postal Service lost mail-in ballots or that other groups meddled with the vote, the people said.'


It speaks volumes given my own political prejudices that the largest slice of our pop culture "social media" can actually become an important factor in electing the president of the United States.

What does that tell us in and of itself about the "dumbing down" of American politics. For some, it's not a question of intelligent voters only being "one of us", but of just how unsophisticated literally millions and millions of American citizens seem to be in regard to grappling with the issues of the day. It goes beyond things like the Jaywalking clips from the Tonight Show. It's the appalling shallowness of the stereotypical thinking that come to the surface time and again whenever one or another voter is interviewed on one or another newscast.

'The preparations underscore how rising concerns over the integrity of the November election have reached social media companies, whose sites can be used to amplify lies, conspiracy theories and inflammatory messages. YouTube and Twitter have also discussed plans for action if the postelection period becomes complicated, according to disinformation and political researchers who have advised the firms.

'The tech companies have spent the past few years working to avoid a repeat of the 2016 election, when Russian operatives used Facebook, Twitter and YouTube to inflame the American electorate with divisive messages. While the firms have since clamped down on foreign meddling, they are reckoning with a surge of domestic interference, such as from the right-wing conspiracy group QAnon and Mr. Trump himself.

In recent weeks, Mr. Trump, who uses social media as a megaphone, has sharpened his comments about the election. He has questioned the legitimacy of mail-in voting, suggested that people’s mail-in ballots would not be counted and avoided answering whether he would step down if he lost.'


my emphasis

stay tuned...
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

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Re: to rig or not to rig?

Postby Meno_ » Fri Aug 21, 2020 10:26 pm

iambiguous wrote:The Facebook factor...

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/21/tech ... e=Homepage

'SAN FRANCISCO — Facebook spent years preparing to ward off any tampering on its site ahead of November’s presidential election. Now the social network is getting ready in case President Trump interferes once the vote is over.

'Employees at the Silicon Valley company are laying out contingency plans and walking through postelection scenarios that include attempts by Mr. Trump or his campaign to use the platform to delegitimize the results, people with knowledge of Facebook’s plans said.

'Facebook is preparing steps to take should Mr. Trump wrongly claim on the site that he won another four-year term, said the people, who spoke on the condition of anonymity. Facebook is also working through how it might act if Mr. Trump tries to invalidate the results by declaring that the Postal Service lost mail-in ballots or that other groups meddled with the vote, the people said.'


It speaks volumes given my own political prejudices that the largest slice of our pop culture "social media" can actually become an important factor in electing the president of the United States.

What does that tell us in and of itself about the "dumbing down" of American politics. For some, it's not a question of intelligent voters only being "one of us", but of just how unsophisticated literally millions and millions of American citizens seem to be in regard to grappling with the issues of the day. It goes beyond things like the Jaywalking clips from the Tonight Show. It's the appalling shallowness of the stereotypical thinking that come to the surface time and again whenever one or another voter is interviewed on one or another newscast.

'The preparations underscore how rising concerns over the integrity of the November election have reached social media companies, whose sites can be used to amplify lies, conspiracy theories and inflammatory messages. YouTube and Twitter have also discussed plans for action if the postelection period becomes complicated, according to disinformation and political researchers who have advised the firms.

'The tech companies have spent the past few years working to avoid a repeat of the 2016 election, when Russian operatives used Facebook, Twitter and YouTube to inflame the American electorate with divisive messages. While the firms have since clamped down on foreign meddling, they are reckoning with a surge of domestic interference, such as from the right-wing conspiracy group QAnon and Mr. Trump himself.

In recent weeks, Mr. Trump, who uses social media as a megaphone, has sharpened his comments about the election. He has questioned the legitimacy of mail-in voting, suggested that people’s mail-in ballots would not be counted and avoided answering whether he would step down if he lost.'


my emphasis

stay tuned...
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Re: to rig or not to rig?

Postby Meno_ » Fri Aug 21, 2020 10:26 pm

iambiguous wrote:The Facebook factor...

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/21/tech ... e=Homepage

'SAN FRANCISCO — Facebook spent years preparing to ward off any tampering on its site ahead of November’s presidential election. Now the social network is getting ready in case President Trump interferes once the vote is over.

'Employees at the Silicon Valley company are laying out contingency plans and walking through postelection scenarios that include attempts by Mr. Trump or his campaign to use the platform to delegitimize the results, people with knowledge of Facebook’s plans said.

'Facebook is preparing steps to take should Mr. Trump wrongly claim on the site that he won another four-year term, said the people, who spoke on the condition of anonymity. Facebook is also working through how it might act if Mr. Trump tries to invalidate the results by declaring that the Postal Service lost mail-in ballots or that other groups meddled with the vote, the people said.'


It speaks volumes given my own political prejudices that the largest slice of our pop culture "social media" can actually become an important factor in electing the president of the United States.

What does that tell us in and of itself about the "dumbing down" of American politics. For some, it's not a question of intelligent voters only being "one of us", but of just how unsophisticated literally millions and millions of American citizens seem to be in regard to grappling with the issues of the day. It goes beyond things like the Jaywalking clips from the Tonight Show. It's the appalling shallowness of the stereotypical thinking that come to the surface time and again whenever one or another voter is interviewed on one or another newscast.

'The preparations underscore how rising concerns over the integrity of the November election have reached social media companies, whose sites can be used to amplify lies, conspiracy theories and inflammatory messages. YouTube and Twitter have also discussed plans for action if the postelection period becomes complicated, according to disinformation and political researchers who have advised the firms.

'The tech companies have spent the past few years working to avoid a repeat of the 2016 election, when Russian operatives used Facebook, Twitter and YouTube to inflame the American electorate with divisive messages. While the firms have since clamped down on foreign meddling, they are reckoning with a surge of domestic interference, such as from the right-wing conspiracy group QAnon and Mr. Trump himself.

In recent weeks, Mr. Trump, who uses social media as a megaphone, has sharpened his comments about the election. He has questioned the legitimacy of mail-in voting, suggested that people’s mail-in ballots would not be counted and avoided answering whether he would step down if he lost.'


my emphasis

stay tuned...




This dumbing down is an example of the politizitation of intelligence, in general, that includes main street and the highest levels of the intelligence community.

That the slack is being taken up by an AI simulation, should not surprise anyone, the basic distrust with which have not yet been satisfactorily ironed out.

Namely, what is involved in this conspiratorial effect, is the actual movement toward world government, and here the edges blur. Russia has as much right to interfere as China , where the US's interference of overt control over economic tensors, has no need for such subliminal control.

The tit for tat could, conceivably be hidden by Silicon Valley's far more advanced state of covert espionage.

This whole issue is becoming mute by the second. Only remotely passed up outmoded deified political processes have interests that they may presume to result in significant difference, on the long run.

The rest of it is simply theater for it's own sake.
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Re: to rig or not to rig?

Postby iambiguous » Fri Aug 21, 2020 11:57 pm

From a Nick Anderson political cartoon:

Reporter: Mr. President, why is the postal service driving out good people, failing to deliver on promised benchmarks, offering poor service, chaotically managed and virtually bankrupt?

Trump: Well, I promised to run government like I run one of my businesses.


Could that be the actual explanation? :lol:
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

Start here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=176529
Then here: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=185296
And here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=194382
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Re: to rig or not to rig?

Postby iambiguous » Sat Aug 22, 2020 10:10 pm

Then this part...

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics ... Fstory-ans

'More than 30 years ago, a Republican Party program that dispatched off-duty police officers to patrol polling places in heavily Black and Latino neighborhoods in New Jersey triggered accusations of voter intimidation, resulting in a federal agreement that restricted for decades how the national GOP could observe voting.

'Now, two years after those limits were lifted, President Trump has revived the idea of using law enforcement officers to patrol polling places, invoking tactics historically used to scare voters of color.

'In an interview Thursday with Fox News host Sean Hannity, Trump described law enforcement officers as part of a phalanx of authorities he hopes will monitor voting in November.

'“We’re going to have everything,” the president said. “We’re going to have sheriffs, and we’re going to have law enforcement, and we’re going to hopefully have U.S. attorneys and we’re going to have everybody, and attorney generals. But it’s very hard.”'


And if "law enforcement officers" aren't enough?

Maybe the National Guard? The Army?

Still, it's less what he says he might do and more the actual behaviors of those he orders to do it.

'Trump’s remarks are part of a pattern of comments in which he has suggested he is willing to take actions to impede how people cast their ballots this fall. He has repeatedly sought to undermine confidence in the November vote, making false claims about the integrity of mail-in balloting and raising the specter of widespread electoral fraud. Earlier this month, he floated the idea of withholding election money from states and refusing funding for the U.S. Postal Service so as to curtail the use of voting by mail. '

How far will he go here? And how will those he "commands" do his bidding?

'The president has limited authority to order law enforcement to patrol polling places. Sheriff’s deputies and police officers are commanded at the local level, and a federal law bars U.S. government officials from sending “armed men” to the vicinity of polling places.

'But civil rights advocates said they feared Trump’s words could inspire local officials to act on his behalf. And they said even the threat of encountering police officers at the polls could be frightening to some voters, particularly in communities of color where residents are distrustful of the police.'


Stay tuned...
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

Start here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=176529
Then here: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=185296
And here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=194382
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