## "America Is a Tinderbox"

Discussion of the recent unfolding of history.

### Re: "America Is a Tinderbox"

Peter Kropotkin wrote:I have to leave for work in about 5 minutes but before I go,
I must point out that while cities burn and the virus has killed
thousands and the economy is DOA... what is the President doing?

He is hiding in his bunker below the White house...…

such tremendous and outstanding show of leadership
that Herr Trump is showing us and the world...…

I just can't quite imagine the great leaders of yesteryear,
say a Lincoln or an FDR or a Washington, hiding in their
bunker when the going gets tough....

but hay, Herr Trump has proven himself to be a coward
of epic proportions...…

Her Trump has abdicated his job, his responsibilities and his duties
to the American people to hide in the White house bunker....

so, are you feeling like he has made American great again?

Kropotkin
Your post follows mine and specifies no one in particular, so I'll respond just in case. I don't like Trump. I can't tell if he is a black sheep family member of the utter insiders or just some renegade authoritarian type who has a few anti-neo con tendencies (not with the program but not an outsider in other senses, obviously) that meant the elites first went ape shit against him, but generally seem to have him in hand now. One really does not have to like bully A to point out the problems with bully B.

When I was a young if you pointed out the foreign policy atrocities - say in Latin America, Vietnam, covert colonialism, corporate crimes - of the US to conservatives they would talk about the USSR's horrors. If I talked to left liberals about USSR antisemitism, oppression, political use of psychiatry or whatever - the lefties would say I was a Republican - and I was actually generally further left than they were. Have a to find a Murray Bookchin type to have a reasonable conversation.

We are so trained to think in binary terms. This isn't restricted to politics. The moment someone criticizes arguments in favor of free will, one must be a determinist. I find this shit all over philosophical forms. For some reason there must be two positions and one of those two must be right and the arguments in favor of it must also be right. LOL. The utter marginalization and simplification of possible positions and problems.

My point in my post is REGARDLESS of whether certain events are conspiracies and consciously elicited or merely opportunities that arise more randomly, things like Covid and lockdown + police violence and racial tensions
can be used
and are being used as an oppotunity to set in motion fascistic/Stasi-like powers (people who identify left or right might use these labels) and potentially keep them.

I think the discussion of conspiracies is necessary, but regardless, we should all know that there are people who love chaos because they want to use it to give themselves permanent control.

What is happening now, created, partially created, happenstance is increasing gaps between the rich and the poor (and all those small businesses going out of business create more niches for large businesses), more law enforcement power, less privacy rights, more surveillance and intrusion, more state power, more control.

Even if someone thinks every single change in state power made now during Corona and the riots is good policy and not conspirational, they STILL should be concerned that the government will not give these powers back. The Patriot Act is still in force, the NSA can still do everything it did and the internet of things is coming - did you ask for it? - which will give surveillance capitalism and surveillance communism even more power over us. The drug war powers are still with us along with the militarization of law enforcement. What they take in the last few decades as power, then tend to keep.

Regardless of how much one trusts MSM, regardless of how much one entertains potential conspiracies to be in fact the case, one should be concerned about more of what we already know is true. There is a trend to hanging onto powers in the last few decades and powers that go against democracy and indvidual rights to all sorts of things.

Or we can all hate each other in binary team divisions which also helps those with power grab more and justify grabbing more.

Was your stomach ulcer caused by the Heliobakter pylori or was it caused by stress and poor diet and then the HP moved in?

In one sense it really doesn't matter. The elite powers sure as shit see a parasitical opportunity and none of us, regardless of political and epistemological differences, should pretend that, at the very least, can't be happening, right now.
Last edited by Karpel Tunnel on Tue Jun 02, 2020 9:38 am, edited 2 times in total.
Karpel Tunnel
Philosopher

Posts: 3625
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2018 12:26 pm

### Re: "America Is a Tinderbox"

Karpel Tunnel wrote:
Gloominary wrote:
All part of the liberal elite's scorched earth strategy they've been carrying out for the last 3-4 years.
I don't think the elite has a part or side of the spectrum. Bush was there for 9/11 and the lost trillions.

I see how they use politics (any politics), but they're not, to me, political. They are wholly mercenary.

I think it does and it doesn't.
I think the vast majority of both liberals and conservatives, especially in the last 60 years, have been completely corrupt.
Most of the decent liberals and conservatives are on the fringes, like a Tulsi Gabbard or a Rand Paul.
However recently mainline conservatives have become a bit more antiestablishment than mainline liberals, like you have Trump Standing up to the WHO, big tech and the pharmaceutical industry, a bit.
Don't get me wrong tho, Trump is still very, very corrupt.
Of course I could be wrong tho, perhaps they're all equally corrupt.

Gloominary
Philosopher

Posts: 3322
Joined: Sun Feb 05, 2017 5:58 am

### Re: "America Is a Tinderbox"

You're all still actually reading your news outlets and gobbling it all up, while at the same time pretending to say you're against corruption and conspiracy.

Odd, but it has gotten to be a bit amusing somehow recently.

How desperately do you need to be fucked in the ass?
The strong do what they can, the weak accept what they must.
- Thucydides
-
Before the Light - Philosophy 77 - sumofalltemples - The Magickal Tree of Life Academy

Fixed Cross
Doric Usurper

Posts: 11066
Joined: Fri Jul 15, 2011 12:53 am
Location: the black ships

### Re: "America Is a Tinderbox"

Fixed Cross wrote:You're all still actually reading your news outlets and gobbling it all up, while at the same time pretending to say you're against corruption and conspiracy.

Odd, but it has gotten to be a bit amusing somehow recently.

How desperately do you need to be fucked in the ass?

This from an uncritical Trump supporter.

Gloominary
Philosopher

Posts: 3322
Joined: Sun Feb 05, 2017 5:58 am

### Re: "America Is a Tinderbox"

Gloominary wrote:There's no reason to believe the murder of George Floyd was racially motivated.

Nonetheless it's being used to further divide and destroy America.

Christine Blasey Ford was bullshit, the migrant caravans were bullshit, Russian Collusion was bullshit, Covid-19 was bullshit and this...while the police brutality appears to be genuine, the way it's being interpreted and exploited by the liberal elite (I say liberal elite because not all liberals are on board with what they're doing) and their pawns (much of Antifa and BLM) to promote violence and anti-white, anti-right and anti-police sentiment in the middle of a supposed pandemic, is bullshit.

All part of the liberal elite's scorched earth strategy they've been carrying out for the last 3-4 years.

I'm not surprised, in fact I'm sure the next (fake) crisis isn't too far off, my only question is, will America, and the rest of the world, be able to survive it?

How much more can we take, a fake epidemic, real lockdown and economic depression, and now race riots martial law, before it all comes tumbling down?

All this is not to say the conservative elite are perfect, very, very far from it, or that they're not in cahoots with liberals on a lot of this shit, but in my estimation, the liberal elite have gone totally batshit ever since Brexit and quasi-populists like Jair Bolsonaro, Matteo Salvini and you know who were elected worldwide.

Their NWO based on communism and technocracy they've been quietly building for the last 70 years out of the old crony capitalist world order lost a little ground, and they absolutely refuse to accept it.

Now they're doubling and tripling down.

The liberal elite no longer believe in liberty at all and they refuse to meet their opposition halfway (if you're a civic nationalist, you're a Nazi, if you don't want open borders, you're a xenophobe, if you don't want more special privileges for blacks and natives, you're a white supremacist, if you don't chop your son's balls off and allow him to be groomed by drag queens, you're a transphobe, if you don't believe all women you're a misogynist (unless it's Bill Clinton or Joe Biden then it's okay), if you don't accept carbon taxes the sky will fall, if you don't submit to contract tracing, house arrest, relocation, masks, social distancing, testing and vaccinations, you're a carrier, a spreader and you need to be fined and incarcerated).

They've abandoned free speech, the freedom to assemble (unless you're Antifa or BLM and you're raiding a supermarket or setting fire to a building, then it's okay), travel and work, the presumption of innocence, privacy, bodily integrity, everything and unreservedly embraced totalitarianism.

Next up: ILP is a tinderbox!

If posts could kill?
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

Start here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=176529
Then here: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=185296
And here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=194382

iambiguous
ILP Legend

Posts: 39876
Joined: Tue Nov 16, 2010 8:03 pm
Location: baltimore maryland

### Re: "America Is a Tinderbox"

Paul Krugman

'I don’t think it’s an exaggeration to say that America as we know it is on the brink.

How did we get here? The core story of U.S. politics over the past four decades is that wealthy elites weaponized white racism to gain political power, which they used to pursue policies that enriched the already wealthy at workers’ expense.'

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/01/opin ... e=Homepage

As existential contraptions rooted in dasein go, I think he nailed it.

Though, sure, there are other existential contraptions out there as well.
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

Start here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=176529
Then here: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=185296
And here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=194382

iambiguous
ILP Legend

Posts: 39876
Joined: Tue Nov 16, 2010 8:03 pm
Location: baltimore maryland

### Re: "America Is a Tinderbox"

I don't think African Americans are particularly hard done by.

Take a look at this:

https://www.statista.com/statistics/816699/local-jail-inmates-in-the-united-states-by-race/

Hispanics are incarcerated a little less than whites and Asians about 6 times less than whites.

Does that sound like racism to you?

So if a population group is incarcerated 6 times less than whites, it's happenstance or because Asians are culturally or genetically superior, but if a population group is incarcerated 3 times more than whites, it's because white privilege/racism?

List of ethnic groups in the United States by household income

Indian American (2016) : $132,746 [1] Australian American (2016) :$90,930[2]
South African American (2017) : $90,517[2] Taiwanese American (2016) :$90,221[1]
Filipino American (2016) : $84,620[1] Austrian American (2016) :$80,717[2]
British American (2016) : $79,872[2] Singaporean American (2016)$79,852[2]
Iranian American (2017) : $78,005[2] Russian American (2016):$77,841[2]
Japanese American (2016): $77,504[1] Bulgarian American (2016):$76,862[2]
Lithuanian American (2016) : $76,694[2] Israeli American (2016) :$76,584 [2]
Slovene American (2016) : $75,940[2] Malaysian American (2016):$72,827[1]
Basque American (2016) : $75,864[2] Lebanese American (2016):$75,337[2]
Chinese American (2016): $74,764[1] Croatian American (2016):$73,991[2]
Sri Lankan American: $73,856[2] Scandinavian American (2016):$73,797[2]
Belgian American (2016) : $73,443[2] Swiss American (2016) :$72,823[2]
Italian American (2016) : $72,586[2] Ukrainian American (2016):$72,449 [2]
Pakistani American : $72,389[1] Romanian American (2016):$72,381[2]
Greek American (2016): $72,291[2] Scottish American (2016):$71,925[2]
Indonesian American : $71,616[2] Danish American (2016) :$71,550[2]
Swedish American (2016): $71,217[2] Polish American (2016):$71,172[2]
Slavic American (2016) : $71,163[2] Norwegian American (2016):$71,142[2]
Canadian American (2016) : $70,809[2] Welsh American (2016):$70,351[2]
Czech American (2016) : $70,454[2] Czechslovakian American (2016) :$70,084[2]
Finnish American (2016) : $70,045[2] Serbian American (2016) :$70,028[2]
Hungarian American (2016): $69,515[2] French Canadian American (2016) :$68,075[2]
Portuguese American (2016): $67,807[2] English American (2016) :$67,663[2]
Thai American : $67,633[1] Slovak American (2016) :$67,471[2]
Armenian American (2016): $67,450[2] German American (2016):$67,306[2]
Irish American (2016) : $66,688[2] Ghanaian American (2016):$66,571[2]
Turkish American (2016) : $66,566[2] Korean American (2016) :$65,186[1]
Palestinian American (2016): $65,170[2] Egyptian American (2016) :$64,728[2]
Vietnamese American : $64,191[1] Scotch-Irish American (2016) :$64,187[2]
Yugoslavian American (2016) : $63,765[2] Dutch American (2016) :$63,597[2]
French American (2016) : $63,471[2] Syrian American (2016):$61,096[2]
Nepali American : $62,848[3][4] Albanian American (2016) :$62,624[2]
Guyanese American (2016) : $60,968[2] Nigerian American (2016):$60,732[2]
British West Indian American (2016): $60,407[2] Cambodian American :$60,192[2]
Laotian American : $58,130[2] Cuban American :$57,000[5]
West Indian American : $56,998[2] Brazilian American (2016):$56,151[2]
Barbadian American : $56,078[2] Argentine American:$55,000[6]
Cajun American : $52,886[2] Jamaican American (2016):$52,669[2]
Trinidadian and Tobagonian American : $55,303[2] Moroccan American (2016) :$52,436[2]
Peruvian Americans : $52,000[2] Unclassified Americans (2016):$51,601[2]
Jordanian American (2016): $51,552[2] Pennsylvania German American (2016):$48,955[2]
Ecuadorian American : $49,000[2] Colombian American :$48,000[6]
Haitian American (2016): $47,990[2] Cape Verdean American (2016) :$47,281[2]
Bangladeshi American : $47,252[2] Assyrian/Chaldean/Syriac American (2016):$44,733[2]
Afghan American : $43,838[2] Bahamian American :$42,000[2]
Ethiopian American (2016) : $41,357[2] Burmese American :$40,064[1]
Puerto Rican American : $40,000[6] Mexican American :$38,000[6]
Iraqi American (2016) : $32,818[2] Dominican American :$32,300[6]
Somali American : $18,756 [6] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ethnic_groups_in_the_United_States_by_household_income Indian Americans for example make significantly more money than Japanese Americans who make significantly more money than English, German and Irish Americans. Is that because whites are more racist against Japanese Americans than they are against Indian Americans? Indian Americans make a lot more than whites who make a lot more than Indian Americans cousins Bangladeshis. That can't be because whites hate Bangladeshis more than they do Indians because they're indistinguishable to whites. However, more Bangladeshis are Muslim than Indians, could that be the reason? But wait, Iranians are Muslims and they too do better than whites, Bangladeshis and Iraqis. Take a look at this: https://www.citylab.com/equity/2019/08/police-officer-shootings-gun-violence-racial-bias-crime-data/595528/ So African Americans are 2.5 times more likely to be killed by police than whites, but whites are about 2.5 times more likely to be killed by police than Asians, and Pacific Islanders too. And women are a hell of a lot less likely to be incaracerated or killed by police, does that mean they're actually committing crimes as often as men, but they're getting a free pass because they're cute and sexy? Because of the stereotype that women are sugar, spice and everything nice, and men are brutes? So what would a racist society look like? It would look like whites way on top by almost any measure of success and the other races way on the bottom, which's not at all like what we see, instead we see Asians usually on top, Pacific Islanders, whites and Hispanics usually somewhere in the middle and African Americans usually on the bottom, but not always (see Nigerian Americans). And what would sexism look like? I'll tell you what it wouldn't look like, it wouldn't look like women doing better than men in a lot of ways (better health and longevity, more child custody and socioeconomic support, less incarceration and suicide). Does racism exist? Of course it does, but it goes both ways and it's the exception, not the rule. The bottom line is we don't live in an essentially racist society and we're not in danger of living in one either, unless we let the liberal elite transform it into one. The so called antiracists, antisexists and antifascists, are just plain racists, sexists and fascists (or communists rather). Last edited by Gloominary on Tue Jun 02, 2020 11:05 pm, edited 2 times in total. Gloominary Philosopher Posts: 3322 Joined: Sun Feb 05, 2017 5:58 am Location: Canada ### Re: "America Is a Tinderbox" Gloominary wrote:I don't think African Americans are particularly hard done by. Take a look at this: https://www.statista.com/statistics/816699/local-jail-inmates-in-the-united-states-by-race/ Hispanics are incarcerated a little less than whites and Asians about 6 times less than whites. Does that look like racism to you? So if a population group is incarcerated 6 times less than whites, it's happenstance or because Asians are culturally or genetically superior, but if a population group is incarcerated 3 times more than whites, it's because white privilege/racism? List of ethnic groups in the United States by household income Indian American (2016) :$132,746 [1]
Australian American (2016) : $90,930[2] South African American (2017) :$90,517[2]
Taiwanese American (2016) : $90,221[1] Filipino American (2016) :$84,620[1]
Austrian American (2016) : $80,717[2] British American (2016) :$79,872[2]
Singaporean American (2016) $79,852[2] Iranian American (2017) :$78,005[2]
Russian American (2016): $77,841[2] Japanese American (2016):$77,504[1]
Bulgarian American (2016): $76,862[2] Lithuanian American (2016) :$76,694[2]
Israeli American (2016) : $76,584 [2] Slovene American (2016) :$75,940[2]
Malaysian American (2016): $72,827[1] Basque American (2016) :$75,864[2]
Lebanese American (2016): $75,337[2] Chinese American (2016):$74,764[1]
Croatian American (2016): $73,991[2] Sri Lankan American:$73,856[2]
Scandinavian American (2016): $73,797[2] Belgian American (2016) :$73,443[2]
Swiss American (2016) : $72,823[2] Italian American (2016) :$72,586[2]
Ukrainian American (2016): $72,449 [2] Pakistani American :$72,389[1]
Romanian American (2016): $72,381[2] Greek American (2016):$72,291[2]
Scottish American (2016): $71,925[2] Indonesian American :$71,616[2]
Danish American (2016) : $71,550[2] Swedish American (2016):$71,217[2]
Polish American (2016): $71,172[2] Slavic American (2016) :$71,163[2]
Norwegian American (2016): $71,142[2] Canadian American (2016) :$70,809[2]
Welsh American (2016): $70,351[2] Czech American (2016) :$70,454[2]
Czechslovakian American (2016) : $70,084[2] Finnish American (2016) :$70,045[2]
Serbian American (2016) : $70,028[2] Hungarian American (2016):$69,515[2]
French Canadian American (2016) : $68,075[2] Portuguese American (2016):$67,807[2]
English American (2016) : $67,663[2] Thai American :$67,633[1]
Slovak American (2016) : $67,471[2] Armenian American (2016):$67,450[2]
German American (2016): $67,306[2] Irish American (2016) :$66,688[2]
Ghanaian American (2016): $66,571[2] Turkish American (2016) :$66,566[2]
Korean American (2016) : $65,186[1] Palestinian American (2016):$65,170[2]
Egyptian American (2016) : $64,728[2] Vietnamese American :$64,191[1]
Scotch-Irish American (2016) : $64,187[2] Yugoslavian American (2016) :$63,765[2]
Dutch American (2016) : $63,597[2] French American (2016) :$63,471[2]
Syrian American (2016): $61,096[2] Nepali American :$62,848[3][4]
Albanian American (2016) : $62,624[2] Guyanese American (2016) :$60,968[2]
Nigerian American (2016): $60,732[2] British West Indian American (2016):$60,407[2]
Cambodian American : $60,192[2] Laotian American :$58,130[2]
Cuban American : $57,000[5] West Indian American :$56,998[2]
Brazilian American (2016): $56,151[2] Barbadian American :$56,078[2]
Argentine American: $55,000[6] Cajun American :$52,886[2]
Jamaican American (2016): $52,669[2] Trinidadian and Tobagonian American :$55,303[2]
Moroccan American (2016) : $52,436[2] Peruvian Americans :$52,000[2]
Unclassified Americans (2016): $51,601[2] Jordanian American (2016):$51,552[2]
Pennsylvania German American (2016): $48,955[2] Ecuadorian American :$49,000[2]
Colombian American : $48,000[6] Haitian American (2016):$47,990[2]
Cape Verdean American (2016) : $47,281[2] Bangladeshi American :$47,252[2]
Assyrian/Chaldean/Syriac American (2016): $44,733[2] Afghan American :$43,838[2]
Bahamian American : $42,000[2] Ethiopian American (2016) :$41,357[2]
Burmese American : $40,064[1] Puerto Rican American :$40,000[6]
Mexican American : $38,000[6] Iraqi American (2016) :$32,818[2]
Dominican American : $32,300[6] Somali American :$18,756 [6]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ethnic_groups_in_the_United_States_by_household_income

Indian Americans for example make significantly more money than Japanese Americans who make significantly more money than English, German and Irish Americans.
Is that because whites are more racist against Japanese Americans than they are against Indian Americans?
Indian Americans make a lot more than whites who make a lot more than Indian American's cousins Bangladeshis.
That can't be because whites hate Bangladeshis more than they do Indians because they're indistinguishable to whites.
However, more Bangladeshis are Muslim than Indians, could that be the reason?
But wait, Iranians are Muslims and they too do better than whites, Bangladeshis and Iraqis.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/816699/local-jail-inmates-in-the-united-states-by-race/

Take a look at this:

https://www.citylab.com/equity/2019/08/police-officer-shootings-gun-violence-racial-bias-crime-data/595528/
So African Americans are 2.5 times more likely to be killed by police than whites, but whites are about 2.5 times more likely to be killed by police than Asians, and Pacific Islanders too.

And women are a hell of a lot less likely to be incaracerated or killed, does that mean they're actually committing crimes as often as men, but they're getting a free pass because they're cute and sexy?
Because of the stereotype that women are sugar, spice and everything nice, and men are brutes?

So what would white racism look like?

It would look like whites way on top by almost any measure of success and the other races way on the bottom, which's not at all like what we see, instead we see Asians usually on top, Pacific Islanders, whites and Hispanics usually somewhere in the middle and African Americans usually on the bottom, but not always (see Nigerian Americans).

And what would sexism look like?

I'll tell you what it wouldn't look like, it wouldn't look like women doing better than men in a lot of ways.

Does racism exist?
Of course it does, but it goes both ways and it's the exception, not the rule.

The bottom line is we don't live in an essentially racist society and we're not in danger of living in one, unless we let the liberal elite transform it into one.

The so called antiracists and antifascists, are just plain racists and fascists (or communists rather).

Statistical contraptions too. We have ours, they have theirs.
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

Start here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=176529
Then here: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=185296
And here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=194382

iambiguous
ILP Legend

Posts: 39876
Joined: Tue Nov 16, 2010 8:03 pm
Location: baltimore maryland

### Re: "America Is a Tinderbox"

Rich criminals looting struggling middle class businesses in the name of "racial justice"
https://disrn.com/news/nyc-looters-pull ... sack-store

Trump begs governors of democratic states to protect their people.
Yet he is framed by the soros-owned media as "making things worse"....

Meanwhile we get a glimpse of how absurdly rich America is - all those videos being shot from all those brand new cars - Trump did really well restoring the economy.
Yet terrorists are never happy. They do not know gratitude. They think like Stalin: "Gratitude is for dogs".

Trump is a better man than the US deserves. But then he is here not just for the US, but to fight off fascism in the name of all of the human race.

HONOUR AND PRAISE BE TO DONALD J TRUMP
no matter what mr President, you have done what you could for these people.
The strong do what they can, the weak accept what they must.
- Thucydides
-
Before the Light - Philosophy 77 - sumofalltemples - The Magickal Tree of Life Academy

Fixed Cross
Doric Usurper

Posts: 11066
Joined: Fri Jul 15, 2011 12:53 am
Location: the black ships

### Re: "America Is a Tinderbox"

Gloominary wrote:I don't think African Americans are particularly hard done by.

Take a look at this:

https://www.statista.com/statistics/816699/local-jail-inmates-in-the-united-states-by-race/

Hispanics are incarcerated a little less than whites and Asians about 6 times less than whites.

Does that sound like racism to you?
That can be cultural. IOW people think that Asians are rule followers and their cultures also have tendencies that are less individualistic and more based on following authority, so both perception and cultural reality lead to less crime. I'm surprised that Hispanics do as well or better in court than whites.

But, me, I'd rather be white than black if I found myself accused of a crime. And not a little.
So if a population group is incarcerated 6 times less than whites, it's happenstance or because Asians are culturally or genetically superior, but if a population group is incarcerated 3 times more than whites, it's because white privilege/racism?
I would call it culturally mixed. It keeps them within the law, but that is not always good and then following authority and reduced invidualism, which are associated with their rule following has its negative side also
Karpel Tunnel
Philosopher

Posts: 3625
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2018 12:26 pm

### Re: "America Is a Tinderbox"

Look here:

The Hispanic paradox, or Latino paradox, also known as the "epidemiologic paradox," refers to the epidemiological finding that Hispanic and Latino Americans tend to have health outcomes that "paradoxically" are comparable to, or in some cases better than, those of their U.S. non-Hispanic White counterparts, even though Hispanics have lower average income and education. (Low socioeconomic status is almost universally associated with worse population health and higher death rates everywhere in the world.)[1] The paradox usually refers in particular to low mortality among Latinos in the United States relative to non-Hispanic Whites.

The extent of a Hispanic American’s acculturation in the United States, or their assimilation to mainstream American culture, is relative to his or her health.[2] One of the main negative effects of acculturation on health has been on substance abuse. More assimilated Latinos have higher rates of illicit drug use, alcohol consumption, and smoking, especially among women.[20] Another negative effect of acculturation is changes in diet and nutrition. More acculturated Latinos eat less fruits, vegetables, vitamins, fiber and protein and consume more fat than their less acculturated counterparts.[20] One of the most significant impacts of acculturation on Latino health is birth outcomes. Studies have found that more acculturated Latinas have higher rates of low birthweight, premature births, teenage pregnancy and undesirable prenatal and postnatal behaviors such as smoking or drinking during pregnancy, and lower rates of breastfeeding.[20] Acculturation and greater time in the United States has also been associated with negative mental health impacts. US-born Latinos or long term residents of the United States had higher rates of mental illness than recent Latino immigrants.[21] In addition, foreign-born Mexican Americans are at significantly lower risk of suicide and depression than those born in the United States.[21] The increased rates of mental illness is thought to be due to increased distress associated with alienation, discrimination and Mexican Americans attempting to advance themselves economically and socially stripping themselves of traditional resources and ethnically-based social support.

Horvath et al. (2013) have proposed that the lower mortality of Hispanics could reflect a slower biological aging rate of Hispanics.[10] This hypothesis is based on the finding that blood and saliva from Hispanics ages more slowly than that of non-Hispanic whites, African Americans, and other populations according to a biomarker of tissue age known as epigenetic clock.

One of the most important aspects of this phenomenon is the comparison of Hispanics' health to non-Hispanic African Americans' health. Both the current and historical poverty rates for Hispanic and non-Hispanic African American populations in the United States are consistently starkly higher than that of non-Hispanic White and non-Hispanic Asian Americans.[18] Dr. Hector Flores explains that “You can predict in the African–American population, for example, a high infant-mortality rate, so we would think a [similar] poor minority would have the same health outcomes.” However, he said, the health poor outcomes are not present in the Hispanic population.[3] For example, the age-adjusted mortality rate for Hispanics living in Los Angeles County was 52 percent less than the blacks living in the same county.

Although Hispanic Americans are twice more likely to be living under the poverty line and three times more likely to not have health insurance than Non-Hispanic White Americans, they have a longer life span than them by 3 years. More Hispanics, than any other racial group, are uninsured and are in general less likely to use medical care. The median life span of Hispanic Americans is an average of 81.8 years and Non-Hispanic White Americans have an average of 78.8 years [23]. This could be explained from scientist taking DNA samples from multiple ethnic groups, the blood from Latino aged more slowly than any other group. [23] It is also found that Hispanics, when first migrating to the US, have lower smoking rates, better diet and general health. Hispanic infant mortality is also less than NHWs with an average of 5.8 per 1000 births and 9.1 per 1000 births for Non-Hispanic Whites. Through the statistics shown of Hispanics and NHW's with cancer, we can see it as a clear example of The Hispanic Paradox. In 2012, new cancer cases of all sites among Hispanic men and Non-Hispanic men had a ratio of 0.7, Hispanic men having 362.2 and Non-Hispanic men having 489.9 [24] In comparison to Non-Hispanic Whites, Hispanic men are 10 percent less likely to be diagnosed with prostate cancer. Hispanic women, compared to NHW, were found to be 30 percent less likely to be diagnosed with breast cancer.

Hispanic Americans make less money than white Americans, but does that mean they're worse off?
On the contrary, Hispanic Americans are healthier, live longer, eat better and have stronger families and communities.
Hispanics are also healthier and live longer in the US than they do in their homelands.
The Hispanic American life expectancy is 82 years, the Mexican life expectancy for example is 75 years.
Do documented Hispanics make less money than whites because of racial discrimination, or because of other factors, like better work/life balance?

In North America we think of success materially, but success is multifaceted.
When you think of success holistically, Hispanics, and women for that matter, do significantly better than whites and men.
And as we've seen Hispanics are less likely to be incarcerated than whites.
Polynesians are less likely to be killed by police officers.
South and East Asians tend to be more successful by many metrics.

What it boils down to is, it's better to be an Asian or Hispanic American in many ways than a white American.
When other races do better, there's all sorts of explanations, but when they do worse, there can be only 1: white privilege/racism.
The dialogue, or monologue rather we have about race in North America, is rigged.

Gloominary
Philosopher

Posts: 3322
Joined: Sun Feb 05, 2017 5:58 am

### Re: "America Is a Tinderbox"

Fixed Cross wrote:Rich criminals looting struggling middle class businesses in the name of "racial justice"
https://disrn.com/news/nyc-looters-pull ... sack-store

Trump begs governors of democratic states to protect their people.
Yet he is framed by the soros-owned media as "making things worse"....

Meanwhile we get a glimpse of how absurdly rich America is - all those videos being shot from all those brand new cars - Trump did really well restoring the economy.
Yet terrorists are never happy. They do not know gratitude. They think like Stalin: "Gratitude is for dogs".

Trump is a better man than the US deserves. But then he is here not just for the US, but to fight off fascism in the name of all of the human race.

HONOUR AND PRAISE BE TO DONALD J TRUMP
no matter what mr President, you have done what you could for these people.

K: ok, so much lies... do I have time to get all of them?

for example, George Soros, doesn't actually own any media.... he once donated
1.8 million to NPR, which is far less then the Kock brothers have donated to PBS...

wealthy people looting? owning Rolls? delusional much... fear of putting
your car into harms way is enough to dissuade someone from even going near
a protest march or near looting....

IQ45 did nothing of the sort to restore the economy... it was incredibly strong
during the Obama years...and the only part of the economy that did well during
the IQ45 years was the stock market and that has nothing to do with the
strength of the economy.... the stock market has been for years, dissociated
from the reality of the economy....the market is suppose to reflect the
strength of the economy and it hasn't done that in years...…..

and nice touch calling people who want to protest a man's death
as "terrorist"

in case you haven't notice, we are in the midst of
a once in a lifetime pandemic, the economy is as bad as it was
during the great depression and, AND we are having
riots like it is 1968...….

IQ45 is the worst president in American history... and it is not even close....

the events of our time tell you the picture.....

I find it interesting that you somehow leave IQ45 out of the picture
when you see current events, as if he had absolutely nothing to do with them....
when the facts are quite clear...… his response to the virus has been
a downright debacle.... a fiasco of epic proportions.... books will be written
on how not to oversee a pandemic using IQ45 response as being the worst possible
decisions for a pandemic..

and you are wrong... IQ45 as a president AND as a human being is
far below what the American people need and deserve...…

he is a disaster of biblical proportions....

like the Pharaoh during the plagues of Egypt,
the ten plagues of water turning into blood
and frogs and lice and flies and livestock pestilence,
and boils and darkness locusts and hail and finally
the killing of the firstborn.....

all I can say is thank god I am not the first born in my family....

if I was, I would be seriously worried about now....

Kropotkin
PK IS EVIL.....
Peter Kropotkin
ILP Legend

Posts: 8953
Joined: Thu Apr 07, 2005 1:47 am
Location: blue state

### Re: "America Is a Tinderbox"

Peter Kropotkin wrote:
Fixed Cross wrote:Rich criminals looting struggling middle class businesses in the name of "racial justice"
https://disrn.com/news/nyc-looters-pull ... sack-store

Trump begs governors of democratic states to protect their people.
Yet he is framed by the soros-owned media as "making things worse"....

Meanwhile we get a glimpse of how absurdly rich America is - all those videos being shot from all those brand new cars - Trump did really well restoring the economy.
Yet terrorists are never happy. They do not know gratitude. They think like Stalin: "Gratitude is for dogs".

Trump is a better man than the US deserves. But then he is here not just for the US, but to fight off fascism in the name of all of the human race.

HONOUR AND PRAISE BE TO DONALD J TRUMP
no matter what mr President, you have done what you could for these people.

K: ok, so much lies... do I have time to get all of them?

for example, George Soros, doesn't actually own any media.... he once donated
1.8 million to NPR, which is far less then the Kock brothers have donated to PBS...

wealthy people looting? owning Rolls? delusional much... fear of putting
your car into harms way is enough to dissuade someone from even going near
a protest march or near looting....

IQ45 did nothing of the sort to restore the economy... it was incredibly strong
during the Obama years...and the only part of the economy that did well during
the IQ45 years was the stock market and that has nothing to do with the
strength of the economy.... the stock market has been for years, dissociated
from the reality of the economy....the market is suppose to reflect the
strength of the economy and it hasn't done that in years...…..

and nice touch calling people who want to protest a man's death
as "terrorist"

in case you haven't notice, we are in the midst of
a once in a lifetime pandemic, the economy is as bad as it was
during the great depression and, AND we are having
riots like it is 1968...….

IQ45 is the worst president in American history... and it is not even close....

the events of our time tell you the picture.....

I find it interesting that you somehow leave IQ45 out of the picture
when you see current events, as if he had absolutely nothing to do with them....
when the facts are quite clear...… his response to the virus has been
a downright debacle.... a fiasco of epic proportions.... books will be written
on how not to oversee a pandemic using IQ45 response as being the worst possible
decisions for a pandemic..

and you are wrong... IQ45 as a president AND as a human being is
far below what the American people need and deserve...…

he is a disaster of biblical proportions....

like the Pharaoh during the plagues of Egypt,
the ten plagues of water turning into blood
and frogs and lice and flies and livestock pestilence,
and boils and darkness locusts and hail and finally
the killing of the firstborn.....

all I can say is thank god I am not the first born in my family....

if I was, I would be seriously worried about now....

Kropotkin

On the other hand, what's in the stars...?
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

Start here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=176529
Then here: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=185296
And here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=194382

iambiguous
ILP Legend

Posts: 39876
Joined: Tue Nov 16, 2010 8:03 pm
Location: baltimore maryland

### Re: "America Is a Tinderbox"

{The stage has been set for Trump, he is likely to win!

The Fed well economy keeps the American dream alive, and it is strength, not weakness which will determine the outcome.}

'America is in turmoil and stocks are booming. Is the market broken?

Analysis by Matt Egan, CNN Business

Updated 6:49 AM EDT, Wed June 03, 2020

New York(CNN Business)The stock market is not the economy. But rarely has the gap between Wall Street and Main Street felt so wide.

The United States is going through its worst race crisis since 1968 following the death of George Floyd, an unarmed black man, at the hands of a police officer in Minneapolis. Riots have hit cities across the nation. Looting is rampant. And President Donald Trump is threatening to send in the military to stop the violence.

The civil unrest could exacerbate the coronavirus pandemic that has already killed more than 100,000 Americans. That in turn could deepen the economic collapse that has forced more than 40 million people to file for unemployment. Meanwhile US-China relations are imploding, imperiling the trade war ceasefire reached between the world's two largest economies.

And yet, the stock market is downright booming.

The S&P 500 closed Tuesday at the highest level in nearly three months. The Nasdaq has spiked 40% since March 23, fueled by the resilience of Big Tech, and is now within striking distance of all-time highs.

There are two major reasons for this: unprecedented stimulus from the Federal Reserve, and investors not wanting to miss out on monster returns once the economy recovers.

Joe Brusuelas, chief economist at RSM International, said he can't recall a time when the disconnect between Wall Street and the real economy was this great. He blamed in part the sharp decline in the number of public companies in the United States.

"The market is broken. It no longer reflects a forward outlook that is truly aligned in the real economy," he said. "That's a problem because at some point, the public will say these markets are rigged.

Robert Shiller, the Nobel Prize-winning economist, told CNN Business that this backdrop of rising risks and surging stock prices leaves the equity market "vulnerable" to a setback.

"This is like a fire bell in the night. This moment. Suddenly seeing rioting in cities all over the country," Shiller said, quoting Thomas Jefferson's famous 1820 description of the extension of slavery in the Missouri Compromise as something that filled the founding father with "terror."

"I don't think standard economic models are much good at forecasting right now," Shiller said.

Ferocious Fed response masks economic turmoil

One reason Wall Street continues to celebrate, despite the turmoil taking place in its city and others, is the forceful economic rescue mounted by the federal government.

Most notably, coronavirus spurred the Federal Reserve to take steps that make its 2008 response look tame by comparison. The Fed slashed interest rates to zero, promised to buy an unlimited amount of bonds, rolled out a series of emergency programs and is directing the purchase of junk bonds.

Greed returns to Wall Street as stock market rebounds

The Fed response, led by Chairman Jerome Powell, has worked wonders at revitalizing financial markets that seized up just three months ago. And Powell has vowed to do more, if necessary.

"There is a very, very significant Powell Put under stocks right now," said Kristina Hooper, chief global market strategist at Invesco.

That means that while Main Street is still grappling with coronavirus, racial crisis and the impacts of both, Wall Street is doing just fine. Fed policy has allowed markets to decouple from economic reality.

The FOMO factor

It's also normal for markets to sniff out recoveries long before average Americans feel them. That's what happened when US stocks bottomed in March 2009, even though the economy was still in shambles. That began the longest bull market in American history.

There are some faint signs that the current economy is bottoming. For instance, the number of unemployment claims has gradually declined, and mortgage applications are rising. Airline passenger activity is climbing as well.

Shiller, the author of "Irrational Exuberance," said many investors have FOMO, or fear of missing out, because they didn't participate in the last bull market: "They remember not catching it last time."

And then there's the impact of Trump's public confidence in the economy's ability to rebound rapidly.

"Donald Trump encourages a sort of self-confidence. You don't have to believe Trump -- you only have to believe that other people believe Trump," said Shiller.

How will the economy be affected?

Yet there are concerns that the recovery could be delayed or derailed by the race crisis, depending upon how long it lasts. Already-weak consumer and business confidence could fall further, leading to additional cuts to the spending that drives the economy.

"It's going to be a depressant. It will slow the trajectory of the reopening in the short term," said Danielle DiMartino Booth, CEO and chief strategist at Quill Intelligence. "If this persists, it will add a whole new level of uncertainty."

It's too early to know whether the unrest will worsen the pandemic. Although some protesters are wearing masks, many others are not.

US Surgeon General Dr. Jerome Adams told Politico on Monday there is "every reason that we will see new clusters and potentially new outbreaks" following the protests. That could force some states to unwind their plans to reopen businesses.

"We have to worry about the potential for a resurgence in infections. Any one of these protests could be a super-spreader event," said Hooper.

'People are angry'

Although the unrest was initially sparked by the killing of George Floyd, the continued broader economic discontent is an undercurrent. The United States has long suffered from stark inequality, particularly across race and gender divides, and the lack of reckoning has fueled a sense that the American dream is not alive and well.

The economy is in shambles but Big Tech stocks are on fire

The top 1% of households controlled $36.8 trillion at the end of last year, according to the Federal Reserve -- up an eye-popping 651% from the$4.9 trillion they held in 1989. The bottom 50% of families held only 1.7 trillion at the end of last year, up a far more modest 112%. The divide between rich and poor was worsened by the Great Recession and its aftermath. The US government's response relied heavily on easy money from the Fed, rather than the kind of fiscal stimulus that can help lower-income Americans. "The policies used to get out of the great financial crisis exacerbated wealth inequality," said Invesco's Hooper. Extreme inequality isn't just a social issue. It could become a problem for Wall Street. That's because it can lead to periods of instability that make businesses and consumers reluctant to spend, hurting corporate profits. And inequality will increase the popularity of proposals to make sweeping changes to a system that some voters see as rigged such as Elizabeth Warren's push for a wealth tax. Unrest could amplify the divide even further A similar story is playing out today. First, the coronavirus pandemic disproportionately hit poorer Americans, many of whom work in the hospitality and service sectors rocked by the pandemic. Nearly 40% of low-income workers lost their jobs in March alone, according to the Fed. Secondly, the decoupling of the stock market from the real economy is amplifying inequality because many poorer Americans have little to no exposure to stocks. "They're not benefiting from the rise of Amazon and Microsoft. They live in a completely different world," said Brusuelas. And then there's the civil unrest, which doesn't just reflect inequality. In an economic sense, it could have the unfortunate side effect of making the divide even worse. Lower-income communities have been hit hard by riots, looting and vandalism. It can take years for less affluent neighborhoods and small businesses, many of which were already hurting from the pandemic, to recover from the damage. "This will exacerbate the divide," said Booth. "Two weeks of delayed reopening won't affect Target or Walmart. But for small businesses barely holding on, it could make the difference between life and death." ' Meno_ breathless Posts: 8107 Joined: Tue Dec 08, 2015 2:39 am Location: Mysterium Tremendum ### Re: "America Is a Tinderbox" Meno_ wrote:{The stage has been set for Trump, he is likely to win! The Fed well economy keeps the American dream alive, and it is strength, not weakness which will determine the outcome.} 'America is in turmoil and stocks are booming. Is the market broken? Analysis by Matt Egan, CNN Business Updated 6:49 AM EDT, Wed June 03, 2020 New York(CNN Business)The stock market is not the economy. But rarely has the gap between Wall Street and Main Street felt so wide. The United States is going through its worst race crisis since 1968 following the death of George Floyd, an unarmed black man, at the hands of a police officer in Minneapolis. Riots have hit cities across the nation. Looting is rampant. And President Donald Trump is threatening to send in the military to stop the violence. The civil unrest could exacerbate the coronavirus pandemic that has already killed more than 100,000 Americans. That in turn could deepen the economic collapse that has forced more than 40 million people to file for unemployment. Meanwhile US-China relations are imploding, imperiling the trade war ceasefire reached between the world's two largest economies. And yet, the stock market is downright booming. The S&P 500 closed Tuesday at the highest level in nearly three months. The Nasdaq has spiked 40% since March 23, fueled by the resilience of Big Tech, and is now within striking distance of all-time highs. There are two major reasons for this: unprecedented stimulus from the Federal Reserve, and investors not wanting to miss out on monster returns once the economy recovers. Joe Brusuelas, chief economist at RSM International, said he can't recall a time when the disconnect between Wall Street and the real economy was this great. He blamed in part the sharp decline in the number of public companies in the United States. "The market is broken. It no longer reflects a forward outlook that is truly aligned in the real economy," he said. "That's a problem because at some point, the public will say these markets are rigged. Robert Shiller, the Nobel Prize-winning economist, told CNN Business that this backdrop of rising risks and surging stock prices leaves the equity market "vulnerable" to a setback. "This is like a fire bell in the night. This moment. Suddenly seeing rioting in cities all over the country," Shiller said, quoting Thomas Jefferson's famous 1820 description of the extension of slavery in the Missouri Compromise as something that filled the founding father with "terror." "I don't think standard economic models are much good at forecasting right now," Shiller said. Ferocious Fed response masks economic turmoil One reason Wall Street continues to celebrate, despite the turmoil taking place in its city and others, is the forceful economic rescue mounted by the federal government. Most notably, coronavirus spurred the Federal Reserve to take steps that make its 2008 response look tame by comparison. The Fed slashed interest rates to zero, promised to buy an unlimited amount of bonds, rolled out a series of emergency programs and is directing the purchase of junk bonds. Greed returns to Wall Street as stock market rebounds The Fed response, led by Chairman Jerome Powell, has worked wonders at revitalizing financial markets that seized up just three months ago. And Powell has vowed to do more, if necessary. "There is a very, very significant Powell Put under stocks right now," said Kristina Hooper, chief global market strategist at Invesco. That means that while Main Street is still grappling with coronavirus, racial crisis and the impacts of both, Wall Street is doing just fine. Fed policy has allowed markets to decouple from economic reality. The FOMO factor It's also normal for markets to sniff out recoveries long before average Americans feel them. That's what happened when US stocks bottomed in March 2009, even though the economy was still in shambles. That began the longest bull market in American history. There are some faint signs that the current economy is bottoming. For instance, the number of unemployment claims has gradually declined, and mortgage applications are rising. Airline passenger activity is climbing as well. Shiller, the author of "Irrational Exuberance," said many investors have FOMO, or fear of missing out, because they didn't participate in the last bull market: "They remember not catching it last time." And then there's the impact of Trump's public confidence in the economy's ability to rebound rapidly. "Donald Trump encourages a sort of self-confidence. You don't have to believe Trump -- you only have to believe that other people believe Trump," said Shiller. How will the economy be affected? Yet there are concerns that the recovery could be delayed or derailed by the race crisis, depending upon how long it lasts. Already-weak consumer and business confidence could fall further, leading to additional cuts to the spending that drives the economy. "It's going to be a depressant. It will slow the trajectory of the reopening in the short term," said Danielle DiMartino Booth, CEO and chief strategist at Quill Intelligence. "If this persists, it will add a whole new level of uncertainty." It's too early to know whether the unrest will worsen the pandemic. Although some protesters are wearing masks, many others are not. US Surgeon General Dr. Jerome Adams told Politico on Monday there is "every reason that we will see new clusters and potentially new outbreaks" following the protests. That could force some states to unwind their plans to reopen businesses. "We have to worry about the potential for a resurgence in infections. Any one of these protests could be a super-spreader event," said Hooper. 'People are angry' Although the unrest was initially sparked by the killing of George Floyd, the continued broader economic discontent is an undercurrent. The United States has long suffered from stark inequality, particularly across race and gender divides, and the lack of reckoning has fueled a sense that the American dream is not alive and well. The economy is in shambles but Big Tech stocks are on fire The top 1% of households controlled36.8 trillion at the end of last year, according to the Federal Reserve -- up an eye-popping 651% from the $4.9 trillion they held in 1989. The bottom 50% of families held only$1.7 trillion at the end of last year, up a far more modest 112%.

The divide between rich and poor was worsened by the Great Recession and its aftermath. The US government's response relied heavily on easy money from the Fed, rather than the kind of fiscal stimulus that can help lower-income Americans.

"The policies used to get out of the great financial crisis exacerbated wealth inequality," said Invesco's Hooper.

Extreme inequality isn't just a social issue. It could become a problem for Wall Street.

That's because it can lead to periods of instability that make businesses and consumers reluctant to spend, hurting corporate profits. And inequality will increase the popularity of proposals to make sweeping changes to a system that some voters see as rigged such as Elizabeth Warren's push for a wealth tax.

Unrest could amplify the divide even further

A similar story is playing out today.

First, the coronavirus pandemic disproportionately hit poorer Americans, many of whom work in the hospitality and service sectors rocked by the pandemic. Nearly 40% of low-income workers lost their jobs in March alone, according to the Fed.

Secondly, the decoupling of the stock market from the real economy is amplifying inequality because many poorer Americans have little to no exposure to stocks.

"They're not benefiting from the rise of Amazon and Microsoft. They live in a completely different world," said Brusuelas.

And then there's the civil unrest, which doesn't just reflect inequality. In an economic sense, it could have the unfortunate side effect of making the divide even worse.

Lower-income communities have been hit hard by riots, looting and vandalism. It can take years for less affluent neighborhoods and small businesses, many of which were already hurting from the pandemic, to recover from the damage.

"This will exacerbate the divide," said Booth. "Two weeks of delayed reopening won't affect Target or Walmart. But for small businesses barely holding on, it could make the difference between life and death." '

K: Thank you Meno for the points you brought up....it says what I was trying to
say, but far better.....the disconnect between the market and the main street,
just another example of the disconnect between the upper class and the
"common" folk....

but it also brings up another point... which is the fallacy that the welfare of
a people is economic... because people have jobs, doesn't make it a state worth
having......we are not our jobs and we are not our economic situation...…

the "greatness" of a people isn't defined by its economic prowess nor is
it defined by it military spending....and not even by a mix of the two,
economic and military.....the greatness of a people is found, first of
all in our civilization.. which is infrastructure Rome was the greatest
country on earth because of its infrastructure...it build roads and aqueducts
and baths and temples... the greatness of a civilization is found in its
infrastructure... we are the greatest country when we have a infrastructure
that takes care of its people...… when the people are fed and their basic
needs are taken care of.... food, water, shelter, health care, education..
the basics needs of every single living human being.....

and those are the physical needs, we must also meet the emotional,
psychological needs of human beings... their need for love,
and safety/security and esteem and belonging...…

the goal of existence is not to make money or to have a job....

the goal of existence is to meet our physical and emotional needs
and then go on to rise above our needs by reaching the next level
of self achievement... where we create our own goals and act upon them....
where we reach our full possibilities and potentials....

in any action, you must keep in mind what is the final goal.....

and what is our final goal?

why do we struggle and fight and shed our blood, sweat and tears?

it certainly isn't about our job or our 401K plan.....

we struggle for something deeper and more meaningful then just
a higher dow average and a job that pays slightly less then nothing....

what do you fight for and struggle for?

why are we protesting? over the death of one man?
perhaps, but more likely we are protesting because
we in the depths of our soul understand, that we are
not reaching any meaningful or honest goals that is worth
our blood, sweat and tears...…

individually and collectively, we are not near any goals or
achievements worth having...…. if the dow reaches 25,000 points,
so the fuck what?

it doesn't impact or affect my life.... if I hold a job, I hold a crappy
job that doesn't hold any interest or allows me to achieve my own
personal goals of becoming something more...….

why does life seem so miserable?

because we are not engaged in anything worth our individual or
collective effort....

we have no goals, no possibilities, nothing to reach for...

and so we march.. in hopes of finding what we so desperately need
and want....

a purpose in life.....both individually and collectively....

Kropotkin
PK IS EVIL.....
Peter Kropotkin
ILP Legend

Posts: 8953
Joined: Thu Apr 07, 2005 1:47 am
Location: blue state

### Re: "America Is a Tinderbox"

Karpel Tunnel wrote:
Gloominary wrote:I don't think African Americans are particularly hard done by.

Take a look at this:

https://www.statista.com/statistics/816699/local-jail-inmates-in-the-united-states-by-race/

Hispanics are incarcerated a little less than whites and Asians about 6 times less than whites.

Does that sound like racism to you?

That can be cultural. IOW people think that Asians are rule followers and their cultures also have tendencies that are less individualistic and more based on following authority, so both perception and cultural reality lead to less crime.

It's a trade off, Asian Americans are more law abiding, but less individualistic.

I'm surprised that Hispanics do as well or better in court than whites.

Something tells me that's never going to make headlines in MSM.
Nor is the fact that Polynesians are less likely to be killed by police than whites going to make headlines.

But, me, I'd rather be white than black if I found myself accused of a crime. And not a little.

If the criminal justice system was largely biased, what would we expect to find?
Perhaps we would expect to find nonwhites incarcerated and killed at a much higher rate than whites, which's not at all like what we find (altho it's not outside the realm of possibility for all minorities of a country to commit far more violent crimes than the majority of the same country).
If the criminal justice system was largely unbiased, what would we expect to find?
We would expect to find nonwhites incarcerated and killed at about the same rate as whites, or some nonwhites incarcerated and killed less, some about equally and some more, which's what we find.
Statistics help prove the criminal justice system is largely unbiased.
So law abiding citizens likely have little or nothing to fear from it, irrespective of ethnicity or race.

If law abiding African Americans do have more to fear from it than other law abiding races, it's because African Americans are several times more likely to commit violent crimes than Asian, Hispanic and white Americans, presumably against police officers too.
Naturally police officers are going to be more on edge when dealing with African Americans.
Last edited by Gloominary on Wed Jun 03, 2020 10:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Gloominary
Philosopher

Posts: 3322
Joined: Sun Feb 05, 2017 5:58 am

### Re: "America Is a Tinderbox"

If law abiding African Americans do have more to fear than other law abiding races, it's because African Americans are several times more likely to commit violent crimes than Asian, Hispanic and white Americans, presumably against police officers too.

Okay, why is this the case? Is there literally a biological gene that makes black people [black men in particular] more likely to commit violent crimes? If so, then that would be perfectly natural behavior. Or, instead, are there rather complex social, political and economic variables that configure down through the ages that make it more likely black people [black men in particular] will commit violent crimes.

White racism being one of them.

Now, what counts for the objectivists among us, is that there is only one way in which to intertwine genes and memes here so as to come up with the only rational manner in which to view the relationship between race and crime. The way that they do.

Same with the tinderbox. They will tell you why there is a tinderbox and if you refuse to think about it in exactly the same way that they do then you are necessarily, inherently wrong.

Black men commit violent crimes -- looting for example -- because that's just the way they are. And even though that's just the way they are they must still be held responsible for what they do. Hated even.

And to the extent that goes further -- to fascism or eugenics or final solutions -- depends on which flavor of objectivism one subscribes to.
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

Start here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=176529
Then here: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=185296
And here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=194382

iambiguous
ILP Legend

Posts: 39876
Joined: Tue Nov 16, 2010 8:03 pm
Location: baltimore maryland

### Re: "America Is a Tinderbox"

Before we proceed any further, I just want to get this out of the way: the vast majority of African Americans are decent, law abiding automatons who rarely, if ever question authority just like the rest of us.
We're talking about a minority of African Americans here, that just so happens to be larger and more violent than the minority of Asians, Hispanics, Whites and other historically oppressed peoples (Natives, Polynesians) who also commit violent crimes.
Last edited by Gloominary on Thu Jun 04, 2020 4:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Gloominary
Philosopher

Posts: 3322
Joined: Sun Feb 05, 2017 5:58 am

### Re: "America Is a Tinderbox"

Gloominary wrote:Before we proceed any further, I just want to get this out of the way: the vast majority of African Americans are decent, law abiding automatons who rarely, if ever question authority just like the rest of us.
We're talking about a minority of African Americans here, that just so happens to be larger and more violent than the minority of Asians, Hispanics and whites who also commit violent crimes.

The statistics are straight forward:

Blacks are 13% of the population in the US but! they commit 52% of the homicides in the US!

That a white person killed a black person, a shame upon all whites. The blacks have no shame. The whites hate this asshole! He brings them down. I hope he sucks dick in prison and swallows for the rest of his life!
Ecmandu
ILP Legend

Posts: 11459
Joined: Thu Dec 11, 2014 1:22 am

### Re: "America Is a Tinderbox"

iambiguous wrote:
If law abiding African Americans do have more to fear than other law abiding races, it's because African Americans are several times more likely to commit violent crimes than Asian, Hispanic and white Americans, presumably against police officers too.

Okay, why is this the case? Is there literally a biological gene that makes black people [black men in particular] more likely to commit violent crimes? If so, then that would be perfectly natural behavior. Or, instead, are there rather complex social, political and economic variables that configure down through the ages that make it more likely black people [black men in particular] will commit violent crimes.

Biology can be every bit as complex and varied as sociology, politics and economics.
Insofar as it's genetic, in all likelihood it's not a single gene, but a multitude of genes.
Some of these genes may be found in other races, just they may not be as prevalent.
Some of these genes may be beneficial alone or under certain conditions, like say in the boxing ring or on the battlefield, but together under the wrong conditions, lead to a greater potential for counterproductive violence.

For the liberal objectivist, as you would say, it's white privilege/supremacy and/or their environment.
For the conservative objectivist, it's their culture.
For the Social Darwinist objectivist, it's their biology.
For postmodern intersubjectivists such as yourself, unless the equation is as simple as 2 & 2 = 4, they'll either suspend judgment, or just go with whatever the prevailing narrative happens to be, but feel fragmented about it.

For me, it's probably all of the above, but with the emphasis on their environment (poverty), culture (gangsterism, victim complex/mentality) and biology (more testosterone, lower impulse control, etcetera), not on white privilege/supremacy, for the reasons already provided and others.
Hell some Sri Lankans are as black as coal, yet they're incarcerated and killed by police far less than whites.
Of course the majority of cops are white, and people do tend to be biased in favor of their own race, however culture has greatly repressed this urge, these days if anything many liberals are biased against their own race.
I just don't think privilege/racism is a major factor, it's certainly not the (only) factor.

I sympathize with conservatives, libertarians and nationalists on some issues, and socialists on others.
I think both sides, left, right and everything in between could greatly benefit from focusing far more on the economy ('it's the economy stupid') and less on issues that divide us like race, sex and gender.
Our issue is not each other, it's corrupt banks, megacorps and government, and both left/right have done an excellent job of dividing and ruling us.

Of course while socialists and capitalists markedly disagree on how to run the economy, one thing I think we can all agree on is there should be lower taxes for the working and middle classes.
The megacorps should (be broken up) receive far less, if any corporate welfare, and start actually paying their taxes.
The federal reserve should be nationalized and much, if not all the (national) debt cancelled (for conservatives: see the year of Jubilee).
I think we can all agree regime change wars and the war on terror was a terrible idea.
It's time to bring all the troops home.

Which party will actually address those issues?
In my estimation, neither mainline republicans nor democrats (or liberals and conservatives in Canada) will, perhaps a Tulsi Gabbard or Rand Paul would.
We need to turn more to 3rd parties and independents, and if that doesn't work, perhaps more drastic measures will be necessary.
Last edited by Gloominary on Thu Jun 04, 2020 2:46 am, edited 2 times in total.

Gloominary
Philosopher

Posts: 3322
Joined: Sun Feb 05, 2017 5:58 am

### Re: "America Is a Tinderbox"

Gloominary wrote:
iambiguous wrote:
If law abiding African Americans do have more to fear than other law abiding races, it's because African Americans are several times more likely to commit violent crimes than Asian, Hispanic and white Americans, presumably against police officers too.

Okay, why is this the case? Is there literally a biological gene that makes black people [black men in particular] more likely to commit violent crimes? If so, then that would be perfectly natural behavior. Or, instead, are there rather complex social, political and economic variables that configure down through the ages that make it more likely black people [black men in particular] will commit violent crimes.

Biology can be every bit as complex and varied as sociology, politics and economics.
Insofar as it's genetic, in all likelihood it's not a single gene, but a multitude of genes.
Some of these genes may be found in other races, just they may not be as prevalent.
Some of these genes may be beneficial alone or under certain conditions, like say in the boxing ring or on the battlefield, but together under the wrong conditions, lead to a greater potential for counterproductive violence.

For the liberal objectivist, as you would say, it's white privilege/supremacy and/or their environment.
For the conservative objectivist, it's their culture.
For the Social Darwinist objectivist, it's their biology.
For postmodern intersubjectivists such as yourself, unless the equation is as simple as 2 & 2 = 4, they'll either suspend judgment, or just go with whatever the prevailing narrative happens to be, but feel fragmented about it.

For me, it's probably all of the above, but with the emphasis on their environment (poverty), culture (gangsterism, victim complex/mentality) and biology (more testosterone, lower impulse control, etcetera), not on white racism/privilege, for the reasons already provided and others.
Hell some Sri Lankans are as black as coal, yet they're incarcerated and killed by police far less than whites.
Of course the majority of cops are white, and people do tend to be biased in favor of their own race, however culture has greatly repressed this urge, these days if anything many liberals are biased against their own race.
I just don't think privilege/racism is a major factor, it's certainly not the (only) factor.

I sympathize with conservatives, libertarians and nationalists on some issues, and socialists on others.
I think both sides, left, right and everything in between could greatly benefit from focusing far more on the economy (it's the economy stupid) and less on issues that divide us like race, sex and gender.
Our main issue is not each other, it's corrupt banks, megacorps and government, and both left/right have done an excellent job of dividing us.

Of course while socialists and capitalists markedly disagree on how the economy should be run, one thing I think we can all agree on is there should be lower taxes for the working and middle classes.
The megacorps (should be broken up) receive far less, if any corporate welfare, and start actually paying their taxes.
The federal reserve should be nationalized and much, if not all the national debt, if not all debt cancelled (see the year of Jubilee).
I think we can all agree regime change wars and the war on terror was a terrible idea.
It's time to bring all the troops home.

Which party will actually address those issues?
In my estimation, neither mainline republicans nor democrats (or liberals and conservatives in Canada) will, perhaps a Tulsi Gabbard or a Rand Paul would.
We need to turn more to 3rd parties and independents, and if that doesn't work, perhaps more drastic measures will be necessary.

Gloominary, I actually read your post and agreed with some of it. One thing I saw that was false is that the FED should eradicate national debt ... umm... that’s not the FEDS choice!!!!!! All that money is owed to China ... which tells me that you don’t know what the fuck you’re talking about.
Ecmandu
ILP Legend

Posts: 11459
Joined: Thu Dec 11, 2014 1:22 am

### Re: "America Is a Tinderbox"

Ecmandu wrote:Gloominary, I actually read your post and agreed with some of it. One thing I saw that was false is that the FED should eradicate national debt ... umm... that’s not the FEDS choice!!!!!! All that money is owed to China ... which tells me that you don’t know what the fuck you’re talking about.

It seems as if every American politician and talking head is expressing concern about the huge amount of debt that the U.S. government owes Chinese lenders. The Chinese do own a lot of U.S. debt—about $1.1 trillion as of early 2020. By mid-2017, the total amount of official debt owed by the federal, state and local governments was more than$19.4 trillion. That figure was $23.4 trillion, as of March 17, 2020. https://www.investopedia.com/articles/investing/080615/china-owns-us-debt-how-much.asp Gloominary Philosopher Posts: 3322 Joined: Sun Feb 05, 2017 5:58 am Location: Canada ### Re: "America Is a Tinderbox" Of the$23.4 trillion in government debts, more than \$6 trillion (a little less than one-third) is actually owned by the federal government in trust funds.
﻿These are accounts dedicated to Social Security, Medicare and other entitlements. In other words, the government wrote itself a really big IOU and bankrupted one account to finance another activity. IOUs are formed and financed through joint efforts of the U.S. Department of the Treasury and the Federal Reserve.

Much of the rest of the debt is owned by individual investors, corporations, and other public entities.

https://www.investopedia.com/articles/investing/080615/china-owns-us-debt-how-much.asp

Gloominary
Philosopher

Posts: 3322
Joined: Sun Feb 05, 2017 5:58 am

### Re: "America Is a Tinderbox"

You can put more quotes on and I’ll read them!

The US economy is worth 40 trillion.

That means that half our economy is in debt.

The problem with paying back the debt is that if we do that; all the extra influx for all our countries that we are in debt to, will now have enough money to defeat the US economically ... so, we never pay it!

It’s considered a national security interest to not repay our debts.
Ecmandu
ILP Legend

Posts: 11459
Joined: Thu Dec 11, 2014 1:22 am

### Re: "America Is a Tinderbox"

Ecmandu wrote:You can put more quotes on and I’ll read them!

The US economy is worth 40 trillion.

That means that half our economy is in debt.

The problem with paying back the debt is that if we do that; all the extra influx for all our countries that we are in debt to, will now have enough money to defeat the US economically ... so, we never pay it!

It’s considered a national security interest to not repay our debts.

It would be self defeating for the U.S.'s major debtor -China- to do that, since if the US would go belly up, the Chinese holding of debt would go puff, the magic dragon, alongside all the trade and real estate that would follow.

The DEBT is only a down payment on huge futures everyone is counting on.

That is if I am not wrong, as Biggie would say.
Meno_
breathless

Posts: 8107
Joined: Tue Dec 08, 2015 2:39 am
Location: Mysterium Tremendum

PreviousNext