Mandatory Vaccination

[phyllo]

What "moral onus"?

Is playing dumb a prerequisite for Philosophy?

Phyllo (pastry) come on now, maan.. really? What moral onus do you think I mean?

Apparently mindreading is a prerequisite.

You write two words and I'm supposed to understand what you mean by it?

[MagsJ]

Apparently mindreading is a prerequisite.

You write two words and I'm supposed to understand what you mean by it?

In that.. if the vaccine is not non-allergenic, then the moral onus is on the individual, on what to do.

[phyllo]

I'm not sure how much accommodation can be made for extreme allergies. Vaccines contain chemicals which are tolerated by most people in the quantities that they receive. There are small batches made with no chemicals or different chemicals to deal with special cases. The typical formulation has chemicals which extend shelf life or make it cheaper to manufacture.

In a sense, it's no different than any other consumable and perishable product.

A box of cereal has preservatives which allow it to sit on a shelf for a year. Bread has chemicals which keep it soft and mold free longer. That's our food distribution system. That's the society we live in. I don't personally agree with a lot of it but I still buy cereal sometimes and "industrial" bread fairly often.

I see vaccines as having some real benefits that should not be ignored.

[MagsJ]

I'm not sure how much accommodation can be made for extreme allergies. Vaccines contain chemicals which are tolerated by most people in the quantities that they receive. There are small batches made with no chemicals or different chemicals to deal with special cases. The typical formulation has chemicals which extend shelf life or make it cheaper to manufacture.

..and therein lies the/my problem.. the lack of access to non-allergenic anaesthetics and such. Us more.. sensitive adults, even need to have baby antihistamine, as opposed to the much-more-potent adult kind.

In a sense, it's no different than any other consumable and perishable product.

In a sense.. anything that enters the bloodstream, should be different than any other consumable and perishable product.

A box of cereal has preservatives which allow it to sit on a shelf for a year. Bread has chemicals which keep it soft and mold free longer. That's our food distribution system. That's the society we live in. I don't personally agree with a lot of it but I still buy cereal sometimes and "industrial" bread fairly often.

The current set of preservatives and additives in foods extend the shelf life of foods for much more longer than previous generations of preservatives and additives, and with them, more intolerances and allergies and deaths.

For instance.. milk went from a 4-day shelf life, to 7 days, to 11 days. My system was ok with 4 days, and even 7 days, but not 11 days.. and so I quit all dairy about a decade ago.

The greed for profit is backfiring on the greedy right now.

I see vaccines as having some real benefits that should not be ignored.

Then make them safe, non?

[Karpel Tunnel]

Phyllo (for you see especially number 7, re the discussion with Magsj) Iamb and Carleas....

here's someone who has the support staff to do the complicated research necessary, in this case writing to a member of the MSM to criticize how vaccines are presented in the MSM and other issues. He cites scientific research for all his points, including metastudies.

The seas of experts information we are bathed in is skewed.

https://childrenshealthdefense.org/news ... jay-gupta/

[WendyDarling]

here's someone who has the support staff to do the complicated research necessary, in this case writing to a member of the MSM to criticize how vaccines are presented in the MSM and other issues. He cites scientific research for all his points, including metastudies.

Thanks for that last post, now can you come up with one refuting climate changes negative affects on our present and future? Climate change is another biased bunch of bull.

Yay, my suspicions have been confirmed, flu vaccines are more of a scam and a harmful one at that. Figures.

[iambiguous]

Yay, my suspicions have been confirmed, flu vaccines are more of a scam and a harmful one at that. Figures.

As a veteran, the VA makes sure I get vaccinated for the flu every year. Well, they don't force me to get one but the info they provide on the My Healthy Vet site seems convincing enough to me that the shots are neither a scam nor harmful. Twelve years now so far and no flu.

Anyway, beyond the political prejudices rooted in dasein that you will never own up to, what actual hard evidence do you have that the vaccines are a scam, are harmful?

For example, I can imagine setting up an experiment in which 100 healthy people got the flu shot and 100 did not. Then at the end of the flu season, the results.

Anything at all like that available? Link me to them please.

[MagsJ]

Vaccine trials starting today.. trial vaccines have no adjuvants in them, these are added during the manufacturing process and are therefore untested, and their effects therefore unknown.

https://www.pmlive.com/pharma_news/oxfo ... ow_1338762

[phyllo]

Yay, my suspicions have been confirmed, flu vaccines are more of a scam and a harmful one at that. Figures.

As a veteran, the VA makes sure I get vaccinated for the flu every year. Well, they don't force me to get one but the info they provide on the My Healthy Vet site seems convincing enough to me that the shots are neither a scam nor harmful. Twelve years now so far and no flu.

Anyway, beyond the political prejudices rooted in dasein that you will never own up to, what actual hard evidence do you have that the vaccines are a scam, are harmful?

For example, I can imagine setting up an experiment in which 100 healthy people got the flu shot and 100 did not. Then at the end of the flu season, the results.

Anything at all like that available? Link me to them please.

This isn't just about a flu or COVID vaccine ... it's a rejection of all vaccines. Polio, TB, measles, mumps, rubella, diphtheria, tetanus, hepatitis, etc.

[MagsJ]

Phyllo (for you see especially number 7, re the discussion with Magsj) Iamb and Carleas....

here's someone who has the support staff to do the complicated research necessary, in this case writing to a member of the MSM to criticize how vaccines are presented in the MSM and other issues. He cites scientific research for all his points, including metastudies.

The seas of experts information we are bathed in is skewed.

https://childrenshealthdefense.org/news ... jay-gupta/

What’s really in your vaccinations and other injectables..

Getting sick off jabs is not a myth or conspiracy theory, it’s a reality.

[Karpel Tunnel]

Yay, my suspicions have been confirmed, flu vaccines are more of a scam and a harmful one at that. Figures.

As a veteran, the VA makes sure I get vaccinated for the flu every year. Well, they don't force me to get one but the info they provide on the My Healthy Vet site seems convincing enough to me that the shots are neither a scam nor harmful. Twelve years now so far and no flu.

Anyway, beyond the political prejudices rooted in dasein that you will never own up to, what actual hard evidence do you have that the vaccines are a scam, are harmful?

For example, I can imagine setting up an experiment in which 100 healthy people got the flu shot and 100 did not. Then at the end of the flu season, the results.

Anything at all like that available? Link me to them please.

She was responding to my post where there was a link. IOW she thanked me for providing information supporting her skepticism about vaccines. The hard evidence you mentioned. I know, it would have been bothersome to actually read what she wrote and use that information. And I have linked to Kennedy's website in other portions of the various Covid threads. Nice anecdotal evidence, by the way, in your post - an anecdote about yourself, cute. I can see why you feel confident going ad hom on her - see the other colored font in the quote above. You got that hard evidence.

[iambiguous]

She was responding to my post where there was a link. IOW she thanked me for providing information supporting her skepticism about vaccines. The hard evidence you mentioned. I know, it would have been bothersome to actually read what she wrote and use that information. And I have linked to Kennedy's website in other portions of the various Covid threads. Nice anecdotal evidence, by the way, in your post - an anecdote about yourself, cute. I can see why you feel confident going ad hom on her - see the other colored font in the quote above. You got that hard evidence.

Are you sure you're not at the very least a vaccine objectivist?

Also, at least I didn't call her an "asshole".

Now, are we going to get down to why you seem driven to respond fatuously to me as you do or not? On another thread of course.

I already think I know why. And it ain't pretty.

[Gloominary]

Phyllo (for you see especially number 7, re the discussion with Magsj) Iamb and Carleas....

here's someone who has the support staff to do the complicated research necessary, in this case writing to a member of the MSM to criticize how vaccines are presented in the MSM and other issues. He cites scientific research for all his points, including metastudies.

The seas of experts information we are bathed in is skewed.

https://childrenshealthdefense.org/news ... jay-gupta/

What’s really in your vaccinations and other injectables..

Getting sick off jabs is not a myth or conspiracy theory, it’s a reality.

Thanks for posting this.

I wonder how many people would still get the flu shot every year if they knew they put detergent in them?
I mean you wouldn't fucking eat detergent, but you'll stick it in your baby's veins?
There's some things we may need to do studies on, but this shouldn't be one of them.
They have as much chance of convincing me that sticking bleach into a child's veins is medicine as they have of convincing me that the sky is green and the grass blue.

It's funny all these science geeks and nerds laugh at Ayurveda, Traditional Chinese Medicine and what not.
I don't trust Ayurveda or Traditional Chinese Medicine either (no offence to people who do, I'm sure they have some truth to them, just as mainstream medicine has some if you're careful and you use it as a last resort), but I'd sooner drink bear bile or splash shark urine on my face than stick detergent in my veins (on 2nd thought, I wouldn't sooner drink bear bile, terrible what they do to those poor bears, but you get my point).

Some doctors do good work, like Dr. Erickson from Berkeley California, because they temper everything quackademics tell them with common sense and critical thinking, but by and large doctors are just modern snake oil salesman, wittingly or unwittingly.
They're more sophisticated, they wear lab coats and work in sleek, slick, sterile labs, but they're every bit as fallacious.

[phyllo]

Disinfectant : A chemical liquid that destroys bacteria.

https://www.lexico.com/definition/disinfectant

Yeah, it kills bacteria in the vial which may be introduced during manufacture or at the time of use.

[Gloominary]

Mmm, bleach is good, aluminum and mercury are good, glug-glug.

[Gloominary]

Canadians divided over making COVID-19 vaccine mandatory: Poll

OTTAWA — While researchers across the planet race to find a vaccine for COVID-19, a new poll suggests Canadians are divided over whether getting it should be mandatory or voluntary — setting up a potentially prickly public health debate if a vaccine becomes available.
The federal government has committed tens of millions of dollars to help find or create a vaccine for the novel coronavirus that causes COVID-19, the respiratory illness that has infected at least 48,000 Canadians and killed more than 2,700.
Yet the poll conducted by Leger and the Association for Canadian Studies found that while 60 per cent of respondents believe people should be required to get the vaccine once it is ready, the other 40 per cent think it should be voluntary.
While that doesn't mean only 60 per cent would get the vaccine themselves, Leger executive vice-president Christian Bourque nonetheless said he would have expected much higher support for a mandatory vaccine given the scale and scope of the pandemic.
"It's almost as if it's seen as just another flu vaccine," Bourque told The Canadian Press. "I myself would have expected a higher number given the severity, given the crisis we're in. But Canadians are kind of divided on this."
The Leger poll was conducted April 24 to 26 and surveyed 1,515 adult Canadians recruited from Leger’s online panel. The internet-based survey cannot be assigned a margin of error because online polls are not considered random samples.
Older Canadians, who are most at risk of serious harm from COVID-19, were more likely to support a mandatory vaccine. Respondents who identified themselves as likely to vote Liberal were also most likely to agree with a mandatory vaccine while those leaning Conservative were least likely.
Bourque suggested this was a reflection of ideological differences seen throughout the crisis: those on the left of the political spectrum are more willing to accept government intervention than those on the right who prioritize personal freedoms.

https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/canada/canadians-divided-over-making-covid-19-vaccine-mandatory-poll/ar-BB13j5hd?li=AAggNb9

You can see they're gunning for it.

I think if they can get enough of us on board voluntarily, they'll try to get the rest coercively.

[Gloominary]

They'll probably develop a vaxx if they haven't already and I'm sure they'll commence campaigning for it not too long before it's released.
It'll be interesting to see if and by how much they'll be able to raise public support.

[MagsJ]

Thanks for posting this.

I wonder how many people would still get the flu shot every year if they knew they put detergent in them?
I mean you wouldn't fucking eat detergent, but you'll stick it in your baby's veins?
There's some things we may need to do studies on, but this shouldn't be one of them.
They have as much chance of convincing me that sticking bleach into a child's veins is medicine as they have of convincing me that the sky is green and the grass blue.

..and yet, it is very ironic that those who are administerIng these injectables, cannot tell the administees what is in the product that they are injecting into the administees vein and bloodstream.

Like any other prescriptive medication, surely the ingredients in injectables should be made a known.. but why aren’t they?

It's funny all these science geeks and nerds laugh at Ayurveda, Traditional Chinese Medicine and what not.
I don't trust Ayurveda or Traditional Chinese Medicine either (no offence to people who do, I'm sure they have some truth to them, just as mainstream medicine has some if you're careful and you use it as a last resort), but I'd sooner drink bear bile or splash shark urine on my face than stick detergent in my veins (on 2nd thought, I wouldn't sooner drink bear bile, terrible what they do to those poor bears, but you get my point).

Does Chinese medicine even work? Homeopathy at least shows positive results, with lesser and alleviated symptoms.

Working on the nervous system is an ancient and Ayurvedic endeavour, and is the key to permanent good health, in staving off dis-ease.. consuming anti-inflammatory produce, like Karpel Tunnel did, is key to NS maintenance in a toxic environment.

Like Karpel, I have been successful in overcoming a debilitating dis-ease.. without the use of modern medicine, which was caused by an anaesthetic/a modern medicine, so I am speaking from a place of experience. I don’t otherwise take modern medicines.. for anything.

Some doctors do good work, like Dr. Erickson from Berkeley California, because they temper everything quackademics tell them with common sense and critical thinking, but by and large doctors are just modern snake oil salesman, wittingly or unwittingly.
They're more sophisticated, they wear lab coats and work in sleek, slick, sterile labs, but they're every bit as fallacious.

Medical school teaches how to treat not cure.. and therein lies the problem.

Be a Physician unto yourself.. heal thine-self.

[WendyDarling]

They'll probably develop a vaxx if they haven't already and I'm sure they'll commence campaigning for it not too long before it's released.
It'll be interesting to see if and by how much they'll be able to raise public support.

The MSM and its leaders raise public support by lying that they already have it with their polls, their salaried doctors/scientists, and whatnot.

[phyllo]

They'll probably develop a vaxx if they haven't already and I'm sure they'll commence campaigning for it not too long before it's released.
It'll be interesting to see if and by how much they'll be able to raise public support.

The MSM and its leaders raise public support by lying that they already have it with their polls, their salaried doctors/scientists, and whatnot.

But you know that they are lying. How do you know?

[WendyDarling]

Phyllo wrote

But you know that they are lying. How do you know?

Trump's win was one big lie they had to eat. This Coronavirus is another based on the CDC's release for doctors to label deaths as due to the virus who haven't and will not be tested to inflate the number of cases and deaths to sustain fear mongering and unconstitutional controls implemented worldwide. Manmade climate change is another hoax agenda that is being pushed in another effort to control liberties.

I thinks Mags had a great point, why don't they list the ingredients of vaccines and medications?

[iambiguous]

Phyllo wrote

But you know that they are lying. How do you know?

Trump's win was one big lie they had to eat. This Coronavirus is another based on the CDC's release for doctors to label deaths as due to the virus who haven't and will not be tested to inflate the number of cases and deaths to sustain fear mongering and unconstitutional controls implemented worldwide. Manmade climate change is another hoax agenda that is being pushed in another effort to control liberties.

I thinks Mags had a great point, why don't they list the ingredients of vaccines and medications?

Unless, of course, she's right.

[MagsJ]

Phyllo wrote

But you know that they are lying. How do you know?

Trump's win was one big lie they had to eat. This Coronavirus is another based on the CDC's release for doctors to label deaths as due to the virus who haven't and will not be tested to inflate the number of cases and deaths to sustain fear mongering and unconstitutional controls implemented worldwide. Manmade climate change is another hoax agenda that is being pushed in another effort to control liberties.

I thinks Mags had a great point, why don't they list the ingredients of vaccines and medications?

Unless, of course, she's right.

Well, I am.. garnered from in the field in real time, as it were.

Are you oblivious to what actually goes on in the World Iam?

In asking the question of what is in the jab/vax, one would think that they’ve asked the medical professional to go kill them-self or commit hara-kiri, from their reactIon to the simple question.

Jabs/vax are pretty much chemical lobotomies.. making the recipient compliant and docile, like fool..

[iambiguous]

Are you oblivious to what actually goes on in the World Iam?

In other words, one is oblivious to what actually goes on in the world if they refuse to think about it exactly as you do. And not just about vaccines, right?

I have been dealing with self-righteous minds like yours -- my friend Carol called them "meat minds" -- for years. The only thing that changes is what [this time] they insist they are ever and always right about.

Remember when Boris Johnson was ever and always right about pursuing the Swedish model in England?

Though, sure, if there are those here who will refuse to get vaccinated when there is one available for the covid-19 virus, let them make that choice. I would never make it mandatory.

Although their children may bear the brunt of the consequences if they are wrong.

Now, I don't pretend that my own frame of mind here is not predicated on the facts that I have accumulated in conjunction with my assumption that "I" here is predicated largely on the assumptions I make about dasein.

But that's just me.

[Meno_]

The whole hyperflous argument may become fallacious, as indications are beco.ing more frequent as to the duration of the infections.

This :

New report says coronavirus pandemic could last for two years – and may not subside until 70% of the population has immunity

BY CHRISTOPHER BRITO

MAY 2, 2020 / 9:24 AM / CBS NEWS

As coronavirus restrictions around the world are being lifted, a new report warns the pandemic that has already killed more than 230,000 people likely won't be contained for two years. The modeling study from the Center for Infectious Disease Research and Policy (CIDRAP) at the University of Minnesota also says that about 70% of people need to be immune in order to bring the virus to a halt. 

For the study, experts looked at eight major influenza pandemics dating back to the 1700s, as well as data about the new coronavirus, to help forecast how COVID-19 may spread over the coming months and years. Out of the eight past flu pandemics, scientists said seven had a second substantial peak about six months after the first one. Additionally, some had "smaller waves of cases over the course of 2 years" after the initial outbreak.  

A key factor in their prediction for the current pandemic revolves around herd immunity, which refers to the community-wide resistance to the spread of a contagious disease that results when a high percentage of people are immune to it, either through vaccination or prior exposure. 


"The length of the pandemic will likely be 18 to 24 months, as herd immunity gradually develops in the human population," the report says. "Given the transmissibility of SARS-CoV-2" — the virus that causes COVID-19 — "60% to 70% of the population may need to be immune to reach a critical threshold of herd immunity to halt the pandemic."

It will take time to reach that point, since data from blood tests show only a small fraction of the overall population has been infected so far, and a possible vaccine is still months if not a year or more away. It is not yet clear whether people who've recovered from the infection will be immune or how long such protection would last.

The report lays out several possible scenarios, including one in which a larger wave of illnesses may happen in the fall or winter of 2020 and then subsequent smaller waves in 2021. The researchers say this model — similar to the pattern seen in the devastating 1918 Spanish flu pandemic — would "require the reinstitution of mitigation measures in the fall in an attempt to drive down spread of infection and prevent healthcare systems from being overwhelmed." 

Two other scenarios in the report involve either recurring peaks and valleys of outbreaks, or smaller waves of illness over the next two years.

In any case, the researchers said people must be prepared for "at least another 18 to 24 months of significant COVID-19 activity, with hot spots popping up periodically" in different geographic areas.

As the virus continues to circulate among the human population and outbreaks finally start to wane, they say it will likely "synchronize to a seasonal pattern with diminished severity over time." 

First published on May 1, 2020 / 2:24 PM

Copyright © 2020 CBS Interactive Inc. All rights reserved.



{Now if the above turn out to be truer then not, the idea of the vaccineto be absolutely required, will become a sine qua non. }