What is Trump's high crime or misdemeanor?

Discussion of the recent unfolding of history.

Re: What is Trump's high crime or misdemeanor?

Postby phyllo » Sat Dec 28, 2019 10:59 pm

obsrvr524 wrote:
phyllo wrote:
What do you think that he did?
Misused his power.

Be specific.

"inappropriate" and "high crimes" are just like saying, "something wrong". Wiki simply proved it for you.

When you try to be specific, you will not merely feel uneasy, you will get into a debate that you will lose.

Try it and reveal your deceiver to the light rather than support and defend your deceiver.
This was the first reply in this thread:
Using his influence as president to force a foreign nation to get dirt on a political rival for personal gain?

That's misuse of power.
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Re: What is Trump's high crime or misdemeanor?

Postby obsrvr524 » Sat Dec 28, 2019 11:09 pm

phyllo wrote:This was the first reply in this thread:
Using his influence as president to force a foreign nation to get dirt on a political rival for personal gain?

That's misuse of power.

So that is your personal belief right?

It isn't so relevant right now where you heard that it happened, even though that will become important later. What is most relevant is that you believe it to be a "misuse of power" and that he should be removed from office due to it. Of course the only real objective is to remove him from office, but let's focus on the excuse first.

It is, in fact NOT a misuse of power.

Now ask why.
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Re: What is Trump's high crime or misdemeanor?

Postby phyllo » Sat Dec 28, 2019 11:17 pm

Now ask why.
Ask why you think that what he did is okay.
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Re: What is Trump's high crime or misdemeanor?

Postby WendyDarling » Sat Dec 28, 2019 11:18 pm

Deceivers don't ask honest questions and try to play games.
I AM OFFICIALLY IN HELL!

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Re: What is Trump's high crime or misdemeanor?

Postby phyllo » Sat Dec 28, 2019 11:20 pm

Did he or did he not use foreign aid to pressure the Ukraine?
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Re: What is Trump's high crime or misdemeanor?

Postby phyllo » Sat Dec 28, 2019 11:35 pm

WendyDarling wrote:Deceivers don't ask honest questions and try to play games.
Who is a deceiver?

Deceiving for what purpose?
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Re: What is Trump's high crime or misdemeanor?

Postby obsrvr524 » Sat Dec 28, 2019 11:43 pm

phyllo wrote:
Now ask why.
Ask why you think that what he did is okay.

Understanding your predicament, I'll take that to be the request for explanation and proceed.

The accusation is that the President did something for a specific reason. The accusation is a concern, not so much what was done, but rather why it was done. So it cannot be denied that motive is relevant to the charge. And because leveraging a foreign government is not only not illegal in the US, it is in fact what every government does to every other constantly, motive is the only relevant concern. Every US President has always leveraged favors along with every other national leader throughout history. Other nations are NOT US citizens entitled to US citizen laws and privileges.

So even though it can be argued whether there really was any force applied (both participants claim that there was none), the idea of leveraging a national favor is simply the way nations trade with each other and certainly not criminal.

Back to the actual issue, the accusation that Mr Trump asked for another nation to "dig up dirt on a political rival" as a personal favor rather than a national concern.

First he did not ask to "dig up dirt". He asked merely to investigate. Read the transcript. Adam Shiff made up, lied about, Mr Trump's phone conversation saying, "I want you to dig up dirt on Biden and plenty of it". So if that is your source for the phrase "dig up dirt", read the transcript.

But gain the issue is about why Mr Trump asked for the investigation. The presumption and biased, knee-jerk declaration is that he asked for it ONLY as a personal political favor.


Do you believe that it is at all possible that Mr Trump had other viable national reasons to ask for the investigation even if he also wanted the possible political advantage?
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Re: What is Trump's high crime or misdemeanor?

Postby phyllo » Sat Dec 28, 2019 11:55 pm

Who potentially benefits most from the investigation? Trump.

How potentially loses the most? Trump's political rival.

Do the people of the USA get anything out of it? Probably not.
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Re: What is Trump's high crime or misdemeanor?

Postby obsrvr524 » Sat Dec 28, 2019 11:57 pm

phyllo wrote:Who potentially benefits most from the investigation? Trump.

How potentially loses the most? Trump's political rival.

Do the people of the USA get anything out of it? Probably not.

That's all fine and we can get to that, but can you answer the question?
Last edited by obsrvr524 on Sat Dec 28, 2019 11:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: What is Trump's high crime or misdemeanor?

Postby phyllo » Sat Dec 28, 2019 11:59 pm

Do you believe that it is at all possible that Mr Trump had other viable national reasons to ask for the investigation even if he also wanted the possible political advantage?
This one?

I don't see national reasons for it.

What are they?
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Re: What is Trump's high crime or misdemeanor?

Postby obsrvr524 » Sun Dec 29, 2019 12:13 am

phyllo wrote:
Do you believe that it is at all possible that Mr Trump had other viable national reasons to ask for the investigation even if he also wanted the possible political advantage?
This one?

I don't see national reasons for it.

What are they?

Oh, glad you asked.

You said that you are not a US citizen and very probably do not study their culture, so perhaps you are not aware that the US President is their top copper, in charge of policing and investigating ALL potential illegal activity of any and every citizen whether that activity is home or abroad. He is in charge of ALL investigative agencies throughout the US; CIA, FBI, DOJ, DIY, HLS,... other than those directly assigned by their Congress. I can understand if you didn't know that.

It is Mr Trump's very job and oath to investigate, via proxy, any and all potential illegal activity of any and every US citizen.

That alone would be enough to dismiss any other accusation of motive. He would be remiss of his duties if he did NOT ask for that investigation.

There is much more to it, more justifications, but first I want to ask if any of this is new to you.

Were you already aware of this much of the story?
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Re: What is Trump's high crime or misdemeanor?

Postby phyllo » Sun Dec 29, 2019 12:27 am

obsrvr524 wrote:
phyllo wrote:
Do you believe that it is at all possible that Mr Trump had other viable national reasons to ask for the investigation even if he also wanted the possible political advantage?
This one?

I don't see national reasons for it.

What are they?

Oh, glad you asked.

You said that you are not a US citizen and very probably do not study their culture, so perhaps you are not aware that the US President is their top copper, in charge of policing and investigating ALL potential illegal activity of any and every citizen whether that activity is home or abroad. He is in charge of ALL investigative agencies throughout the US; CIA, FBI, DOJ, DIY, HLS,... other than those directly assigned by their Congress. I can understand if you didn't know that.

It is Mr Trump's very job and oath to investigate, via proxy, any and all potential illegal activity of any and every US citizen.

That alone would be enough to dismiss any other accusation of motive. He would be remiss of his duties if he did NOT ask for that investigation.

There is much more to it, more justifications, but first I want to ask if any of this is new to you.

Were you already aware of this much of the story?
That's total bullshit.

How stupid do you think I am?
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Re: What is Trump's high crime or misdemeanor?

Postby obsrvr524 » Sun Dec 29, 2019 12:53 am

phyllo wrote:That's total bullshit.

How stupid do you think I am?

Well, let's not rush to judgment on that question.

So are you in the belief that there is no one in charge of investigating potential illegal activities of US citizens? You really think that is what they meant by "free nation"?

Who is in charge of such investigations?
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Re: What is Trump's high crime or misdemeanor?

Postby Ecmandu » Sun Dec 29, 2019 12:56 am

Personally,

I don’t care if trump delegated this investigation to another country because he didn’t trust his own country.

What I find abhorrent about trump is his not sending out his tax returns.

Obviously, since trump is a “real estate mogul” he’s mobbed the fuck up. He’s a mafia president.

If you actually look at what trump CLAIMS to be worth, he lost money (calculated by inflation) from his fathers 300 million dollar inheritance—- he’s a shitty business man. And we all know trump isn’t worth 10 billion dollars !!! Trump probably is in debt, which is why he won’t post his tax returns.

The actual collusion story is with the mob. The collusion story never heard.
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Re: What is Trump's high crime or misdemeanor?

Postby WendyDarling » Sun Dec 29, 2019 12:58 am

Is it illegal to be in debt?
I AM OFFICIALLY IN HELL!

I live my philosophy, it's personal to me and people who engage where I live establish an unspoken dynamic, a relationship of sorts, with me and my philosophy.

Cutting folks for sport is a reality for the poor in spirit. I myself only cut the poor in spirit on Tues., Thurs., and every other Sat.
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Re: What is Trump's high crime or misdemeanor?

Postby Ecmandu » Sun Dec 29, 2019 5:04 pm

WendyDarling wrote:Is it illegal to be in debt?


The candidates running for president shouldn’t be lying about stuff like that.

Lying!!!

I don’t give a fuck if a candidate is in debt and needs the White House salary to pay it off... if they can run the country well, good on them for being honest about it.
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Re: What is Trump's high crime or misdemeanor?

Postby obsrvr524 » Sun Dec 29, 2019 5:19 pm

So did phyllo take his L already (fight or fLight)? Or just taking a break?

It seems to me that if Mr Trump was in debt, he wouldn't have donated his entire salary ($400,000) back to the treasury. No one asked for him to do that. No one would have noticed if he didn't. And certainly the US media didn't brag on him for it. He gained nearly nothing for doing it yet lost an easy half mil. That doesn't sound like a financially desperate man. It would have been a big price to pay merely to bolster a false image.
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Re: What is Trump's high crime or misdemeanor?

Postby WendyDarling » Sun Dec 29, 2019 6:41 pm

The haters can't help but hate. What Trump does or doesn't do, the haters always find fault. They are deeply unhappy people.
I AM OFFICIALLY IN HELL!

I live my philosophy, it's personal to me and people who engage where I live establish an unspoken dynamic, a relationship of sorts, with me and my philosophy.

Cutting folks for sport is a reality for the poor in spirit. I myself only cut the poor in spirit on Tues., Thurs., and every other Sat.
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Re: What is Trump's high crime or misdemeanor?

Postby WendyDarling » Sun Dec 29, 2019 6:45 pm

Ecmandu wrote:
WendyDarling wrote:Is it illegal to be in debt?


The candidates running for president shouldn’t be lying about stuff like that.

Lying!!!

I don’t give a fuck if a candidate is in debt and needs the White House salary to pay it off... if they can run the country well, good on them for being honest about it.


I don't remember Trump stating what he is worth. If he didn't state it and it hasn't been proven one way or the other, how is he lying?
I AM OFFICIALLY IN HELL!

I live my philosophy, it's personal to me and people who engage where I live establish an unspoken dynamic, a relationship of sorts, with me and my philosophy.

Cutting folks for sport is a reality for the poor in spirit. I myself only cut the poor in spirit on Tues., Thurs., and every other Sat.
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Re: What is Trump's high crime or misdemeanor?

Postby Ecmandu » Sun Dec 29, 2019 6:52 pm

WendyDarling wrote:
Ecmandu wrote:
WendyDarling wrote:Is it illegal to be in debt?


The candidates running for president shouldn’t be lying about stuff like that.

Lying!!!

I don’t give a fuck if a candidate is in debt and needs the White House salary to pay it off... if they can run the country well, good on them for being honest about it.


I don't remember Trump stating what he is worth. If he didn't state it and it hasn't been proven one way or the other, how is he lying?


Oh! Get this! Lol!! He stated that what he’s worth changes depending on his mood when he gets out of bed!! Lol

He seriously said that! He’s also on record of claiming 10 billion.

What strikes me about this is that if I really wanted to build the wall and it only cost half my wealth and all my voters would see me as a hero, I’d do it in a heartbeat!

Trump? Not so much. He either doesn’t believe in the wall at all or he’s not that wealthy.

Either choice is grim.
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Re: What is Trump's high crime or misdemeanor?

Postby WendyDarling » Sun Dec 29, 2019 6:54 pm

EC wrote
He’s also on record of claiming 10 billion.

Where?
I AM OFFICIALLY IN HELL!

I live my philosophy, it's personal to me and people who engage where I live establish an unspoken dynamic, a relationship of sorts, with me and my philosophy.

Cutting folks for sport is a reality for the poor in spirit. I myself only cut the poor in spirit on Tues., Thurs., and every other Sat.
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Re: What is Trump's high crime or misdemeanor?

Postby Ecmandu » Sun Dec 29, 2019 6:58 pm

WendyDarling wrote:EC wrote
He’s also on record of claiming 10 billion.

Where?


Just google “trump claims he’s worth 10 billion”
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Re: What is Trump's high crime or misdemeanor?

Postby WendyDarling » Sun Dec 29, 2019 7:35 pm

Didn't find where he said 10 million, but let's move on to how you know he is lying?
I AM OFFICIALLY IN HELL!

I live my philosophy, it's personal to me and people who engage where I live establish an unspoken dynamic, a relationship of sorts, with me and my philosophy.

Cutting folks for sport is a reality for the poor in spirit. I myself only cut the poor in spirit on Tues., Thurs., and every other Sat.
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Re: What is Trump's high crime or misdemeanor?

Postby Ecmandu » Sun Dec 29, 2019 7:41 pm

WendyDarling wrote:Didn't find where he said 10 million, but let's move on to how you know he is lying?


It’s 10 billion. It’s the first 100 pages of the google search parameter I gave you.

Here’s the deal. He’s either lying about the wall or about his wealth. Pick one.

Here’s another thing Wendy ... every year, I just vote for myself, because not only do I know the job, and I’m the person I trust the most ... I don’t want the burden of carrying morons across the finish line. I’ve had enough of that in my life.
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Re: What is Trump's high crime or misdemeanor?

Postby WendyDarling » Sun Dec 29, 2019 7:44 pm

Trump doesn't say that nor is he quoted saying that. Supposedly his campaign said that (whatever that means), it wasn't Trump.

Your rationalizations are unreasonable and unsupported by evidence, law, or ethics.
I AM OFFICIALLY IN HELL!

I live my philosophy, it's personal to me and people who engage where I live establish an unspoken dynamic, a relationship of sorts, with me and my philosophy.

Cutting folks for sport is a reality for the poor in spirit. I myself only cut the poor in spirit on Tues., Thurs., and every other Sat.
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