Does everyone agree that Trump is nuts?

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Re: Does everyone agree that Trump is nuts?

Postby Mowk » Fri Jul 19, 2019 3:57 am

Is it? I agree with the distinctions of blue and green. So no. A distraction, nothing more.

The colonial period and what came after speaks of a different sort of circumstance. "Guns, Germs and Steel" Shit we've got third world country status on the Indian reservations throughout this land. A third of our population are the descendants of slaves. That's going to take a toll. Go tell the indigenous population of America about creating their own circumstance. And our relationship with Puerto Rico, a third world common wealth? What is now the Nation of the Philippines was a common wealth of the US from November 15, 1935 until July 4, 1946. Their wealth was our wealth? What third world country hasn't been occupied by other nations and you don't think foundations were laid?

Have you considered how brutal the colonial land grab was? Go in, take what you want and leave letting the country fend for itself as result of the consequences.

Yeah, third world people created third world countries. And they are going to bring us down only as low as we've knocked them down. We owe a karmic debt for what the greedy have done. And the US has become quite greedy. Well, It's mine now and you can't have any of it. And you aren't welcome here.

Awe sure we can hide behind the myth of individual responsibility but the fact is it has never been true. Who among us are here without the benefit of at least two other individuals.
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Re: Does everyone agree that Trump is nuts?

Postby Gloominary » Fri Jul 19, 2019 4:40 am

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Re: Does everyone agree that Trump is nuts?

Postby Mowk » Fri Jul 19, 2019 4:45 am

Say what you have to say yourself. Defend your thinking, don't rely on someone else. You think you are individually responsible? You don't act like it. And yet you expect if of others.

It takes a world to make a world go round. You and I included.
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Re: Does everyone agree that Trump is nuts?

Postby Gloominary » Fri Jul 19, 2019 5:08 am

Saying every self-made millionaire and billionaire just got lucky, or every successful athlete just got lucky, is about as absurd as saying every rich and prosperous nation and ethnicity just got lucky, it's absurd on its face.
Of course the rich and prosperous ones tend to have more adaptive genes and memes, the only question is, to what degree?
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Re: Does everyone agree that Trump is nuts?

Postby Mowk » Fri Jul 19, 2019 5:28 am

Gloominary wrote:Saying every self-made millionaire and billionaire just got lucky, or every successful athlete just got lucky, is about as absurd as saying every rich and prosperous nation and ethnicity just got lucky, it's absurd on its face.
Of course the rich and prosperous ones tend to have more adaptive genes and memes, the only question is, to what degree?


I have not said that, let me repeat what I did say. "Who among us are here without the benefit of at least two other individuals." And that's the short list. There are no self-made millionaires. None of them showed up without the benefit of at least two other individuals. I think you and I got very lucky being born where we were and not some shit hole someone else has left for us. Were you responsible for where and to whom you were born? So yeah, I think if there is such a thing as luck ,then we and every millionaire and athlete has been lucky.

Millions of organisms participated in their success and without that assistance they would not have gotten where they have. Just the number involved in the provision of clean drinking water staggers the imagination and without that, where would they be?

The luck of the draw? If lucky, it wasn't only luck. Much of it depended on their ability to leverage the myth of individually responsible.

I do sort of agree with your notion of genes and memes, but what individual is responsible for that? There is a gestalt at play to which your eyes don't seem to see. Do we blame genes or memes or again is there not one that is individually responsible? Giving the notions of nature and nurture new names doesn't clear up the roles they play.

I'd respect your opinion much more if you didn't attempt to claim words came from my mind, and use your input to further your myopic view of the world.
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Re: Does everyone agree that Trump is nuts?

Postby Gloominary » Fri Jul 19, 2019 6:17 am

Mowk wrote:
Gloominary wrote:Saying every self-made millionaire and billionaire just got lucky, or every successful athlete just got lucky, is about as absurd as saying every rich and prosperous nation and ethnicity just got lucky, it's absurd on its face.
Of course the rich and prosperous ones tend to have more adaptive genes and memes, the only question is, to what degree?


I have not said that, let me repeat what I did say. "Who among us are here without the benefit of at least two other individuals." And that's the short list. There are no self-made millionaires. None of them showed up without the benefit of at least two other individuals. I think you and I got very lucky being born where we were and not some shit hole someone else has left for us. Were you responsible for where and to whom you were born? So yeah, I think if there is such a thing as luck ,then we and every millionaire and athlete has been lucky.

Millions of organisms participated in their success and without that assistance they would not have gotten where they have. Just the number involved in the provision of clean drinking water staggers the imagination and without that, where would they be?

The luck of the draw? If lucky, it wasn't only luck. Much of it depended on their ability to leverage the myth of individually responsible.

I do sort of agree with your notion of genes and memes, but what individual is responsible for that? There is a gestalt at play to which your eyes don't seem to see. Do we blame genes or memes or again is there not one that is individually responsible?

Your point about me being lucky to have the genes and memes I have, or live in the environment I do, doesn't interest me.
Your point is metaphysical, mine is practical.
I mean I guess we're all lucky then, so everyone gets a medal, trophy and equal paycheck, whether they have good or poor genes and memes, whether they contributed a lot or nothing.
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Re: Does everyone agree that Trump is nuts?

Postby Mowk » Fri Jul 19, 2019 6:36 am

"Your point about me being lucky to have the genes and memes I have, or live in the environment I do, doesn't interest me."

The same (absent the lack of interest) applies to me, and millionaires and athletes as well. It also applies to "third world people" Whether it of interest to you or not. Further evidence of the genes and memes that make you who you are, however uninterested you may be, of which I do not hold you individually responsible. That is practical.
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Re: Does everyone agree that Trump is nuts?

Postby Gloominary » Fri Jul 19, 2019 6:49 am

If we want to be successful, we prefer ourselves, as individuals, families and communities, and others who're able and willing to help us.
We don't prefer apes, and hope they'll evolve into something able and willing to repay us millions of years down the road.
They won't, if anything they'll become even more unable and unwilling to repay us, as we'll be rewarding what's weak and selfish in them, not what's strong and reciprocal.
Of course we can help the weak if we have plenty extra, which we, as working class Americans and Canadians, don't, but we don't prefer, the weak, we don't prioritize, the weak, that is a recipe for self-destruction, which is why it is so rare in nature.
If the elite really want to help them, they can pay them out of their earnings, not out of ours, but they don't, they're exploiting them as much as they're exploiting us all in the name of humanitarianism no less, the hypocritical wretches.
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Re: Does everyone agree that Trump is nuts?

Postby Mowk » Fri Jul 19, 2019 7:09 am

Dude, "If "we" want to be successful". Some of us are too successful but it's not a "we", and it comes with a great cost to everything else, and still some of us will never be. I'm never going to be individually responsible for changing that. But I don't see a future that is going to be successful for long at the cost some of us that make up the "we", are willing to pay. Can "we" benefit at all if we do not realize from what we are benefiting?
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Re: Does everyone agree that Trump is nuts?

Postby Gloominary » Fri Jul 19, 2019 7:18 am

Mowk wrote:Dude, "If we want to be successful". We are. Some of us are too successful but it's not a "we", and it comes with a great cost to everything else, and some of us will never be. I'm never going to be individually responsible for changing that. But I don't see a future that is going to be successful for long at the cost some of us are willing to pay. Can we benefit at all if we do not realize from what we are benefiting?

Well in that case, donate half your paycheck to the 3rd world.
I am not so successful, I need every coin I have, I don't want millions of illegals devaluing my labor, among all the other ills they bring.
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Re: Does everyone agree that Trump is nuts?

Postby Mowk » Fri Jul 19, 2019 7:26 am

I feel for you. Been there. I am not a millionaire either, but I woke up this morning and I really don't looked forward to waking tomorrow. If you do, you are already more successful then I and a good deal of the rest of the population. Take some stock in where you are and appreciate all that has taken you here.

The best of luck in your success.
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Re: Does everyone agree that Trump is nuts?

Postby Gloominary » Fri Jul 19, 2019 7:28 am

Why didn't the native Americans have guns, germs and steel?
Why didn't Africans, Australian Aborigines, Polynesians and Siberians?
Why didn't they invent them?
Why didn't they invent ships to trade with those that did invent them?
Why was it Europeans who conquered the world, and not North Africans, West, South or east Asians?
They all had guns, germs and steel.

We had a lot of environmental disadvantages, too, especially in Northern Europe it is cold and dark throughout much of the year.
Not a lot grows there either.
Yet it was the Vikings who first made the voyage to the Americas.
Their environment was hellish compared with the warm, bright, human climates of what later became the US, or with say Africa which has loads of biodiversity.
They were followed by Iberians, French, Dutch and Brits.

And even if Europeans had the best environmental conditions, which's doubtful, our ancestors were smart and strong enough to settle and stay there, whereas others came and went throughout the eons, so that wasn't luck either, at least not entirely.
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Re: Does everyone agree that Trump is nuts?

Postby Mowk » Fri Jul 19, 2019 7:37 am

I wish to conquer no one.

Why didn't the Native Americans invent guns and steal? Genes and memes. No one invented the germs, they sort of were aided in their effect as result of genes and memes.

Luck of the draw. :shrug:

Guessing Trump doesn't get it. But that doesn't make him nuts or we are all nuts and then it doesn't matter.
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Re: Does everyone agree that Trump is nuts?

Postby obsrvr524 » Fri Jul 19, 2019 10:17 am

The opinions on this thread appear to merely reflect their source of news.
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Re: Does everyone agree that Trump is nuts?

Postby promethean75 » Fri Jul 19, 2019 11:15 am

marx wrote:But the English bourgeoisie has also much more important interests in the present economy of Ireland. Owing to the constantly increasing concentration of leaseholds, Ireland constantly sends her own surplus to the English labour market, and thus forces down wages and lowers the material and moral position of the English working class.

And most important of all! Every industrial and commercial centre in England now possesses a working class divided into two hostile camps, English proletarians and Irish proletarians. The ordinary English worker hates the Irish worker as a competitor who lowers his standard of life. In relation to the Irish worker he regards himself as a member of the ruling nation and consequently he becomes a tool of the English aristocrats and capitalists against Ireland, thus strengthening their domination over himself. He cherishes religious, social, and national prejudices against the Irish worker. His attitude towards him is much the same as that of the “poor whites” to the Negroes in the former slave states of the U.S.A.. The Irishman pays him back with interest in his own money. He sees in the English worker both the accomplice and the stupid tool of the English rulers in Ireland.

This antagonism is artificially kept alive and intensified by the press, the pulpit, the comic papers, in short, by all the means at the disposal of the ruling classes. This antagonism is the secret of the impotence of the English working class, despite its organisation. It is the secret by which the capitalist class maintains its power. And the latter is quite aware of this.

But the evil does not stop here. It continues across the ocean. The antagonism between Englishmen and Irishmen is the hidden basis of the conflict between the United States and England. It makes any honest and serious co-operation between the working classes of the two countries impossible. It enables the governments of both countries, whenever they think fit, to break the edge off the social conflict by their mutual bullying, and, in case of need, by war between the two countries.


History repeats itself; first as the englishman versus the irish, then as the beaners versus the uhmericans...
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Re: Does everyone agree that Trump is nuts?

Postby Carleas » Fri Jul 19, 2019 3:00 pm

WendyDarling wrote:I clicked on your link and it didn't convey any statistics to back up your question. It was a fluff piece spun by left wing media, to bad it revolves around a tragedy perpetrated by an illegal who admitted to knowing where the dead girl's body was hidden. I don't see how by any stretch of the imagination it proves that illegals are law abiding.

Here's a survey of literature on the criminality of immigrants. Short version: "...[I]mmigrants are less likely to commit serious crimes or be behind bars than the native-born, and high rates of immigration are associated with lower rates of violent crime and property crime. This holds true for both legal immigrants and the unauthorized, regardless of their country of origin or level of education."

Perceptive skeptic that I know you are, I expect you will be able to find reasons to reject this study's conclusions. But I'm providing it to make the tautology you provide (which I address below) insufficient to prove your point: present evidence that is not subject to whatever issues you take with the linked survey that supports a claim that illegal immigrants commit more crimes than native born citizens (but read below first on what's really being claimed).

WendyDarling wrote:illegal immigrants are breaking the law by sneaking into the country, they are all criminals where US citizens are not all criminals.

First, my understanding is that illegal entry into the US is a civil infraction, not a criminal infraction.

But a more important point is that the terms we're using here are sloppy. Let's say we made Christianity illegal, and we justified it by saying that Christians are much more likely to be criminals, which we proved by pointing to our new law which made all Christians criminals. QED? It doesn't seem so. What we want to know is whether illegal immigrants commit other kinds of crime at higher rates than natural born citizens. The study linked above says no.
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Re: Does everyone agree that Trump is nuts?

Postby Gloominary » Fri Jul 19, 2019 3:42 pm

promethean75 wrote:
marx wrote:But the English bourgeoisie has also much more important interests in the present economy of Ireland. Owing to the constantly increasing concentration of leaseholds, Ireland constantly sends her own surplus to the English labour market, and thus forces down wages and lowers the material and moral position of the English working class.

And most important of all! Every industrial and commercial centre in England now possesses a working class divided into two hostile camps, English proletarians and Irish proletarians. The ordinary English worker hates the Irish worker as a competitor who lowers his standard of life. In relation to the Irish worker he regards himself as a member of the ruling nation and consequently he becomes a tool of the English aristocrats and capitalists against Ireland, thus strengthening their domination over himself. He cherishes religious, social, and national prejudices against the Irish worker. His attitude towards him is much the same as that of the “poor whites” to the Negroes in the former slave states of the U.S.A.. The Irishman pays him back with interest in his own money. He sees in the English worker both the accomplice and the stupid tool of the English rulers in Ireland.

This antagonism is artificially kept alive and intensified by the press, the pulpit, the comic papers, in short, by all the means at the disposal of the ruling classes. This antagonism is the secret of the impotence of the English working class, despite its organisation. It is the secret by which the capitalist class maintains its power. And the latter is quite aware of this.

But the evil does not stop here. It continues across the ocean. The antagonism between Englishmen and Irishmen is the hidden basis of the conflict between the United States and England. It makes any honest and serious co-operation between the working classes of the two countries impossible. It enables the governments of both countries, whenever they think fit, to break the edge off the social conflict by their mutual bullying, and, in case of need, by war between the two countries.


History repeats itself; first as the englishman versus the irish, then as the beaners versus the uhmericans...

Hell the same shit was happening in ancient Rome, never mind 19th century Britain.
They flooded Rome with illegals seeking employment from the frontiers of the empire, especially from what was at the time barbarian Germany.
eventually German illegals were permitted to join the Roman army to defend Rome's borders from German barbarians, for Romans grew too weary to fight.
After German illegals became the vast majority of the Roman army, they decided to turn on Rome for they had no loyalty to her, they saw themselves as German first, not Roman, and there was nothing the Romans could do.
We're witnessing the beginnings of this happening now, some democrats want illegals to be able to run for office in California, eventually they will say they want to make them soldiers too, it's only a matter of time.
Overtime successful nations with strong soldiers, working and middle classes atrophy, they let others on the fringes of society both on the top and bottom rungs keep exploiting them instead of resisting, until they collapse and are conquered.
This isn't a right or left phenomenon, it's a bipartisan one.
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Re: Does everyone agree that Trump is nuts?

Postby Meno_ » Fri Jul 19, 2019 4:02 pm

if you really want to get right down to it, territorial claims could invalidate the whole argument. Who or what belongs to whom is really a shady grey area, Mexico owed a large part of the South h west US and the war was founded on a matter of the same kind of rationale that Hitler used for territorial expansion.

What and how long can territorial claims be justified and on what ground?

Reparations, a hot subject in California, has been ok'd by legislature
concerning Indian rights for casino acquisitions. Some tribal members are getting filthy rich on it. These are parallel issued to territoriality, and God only knows where the boundaries are.
The whole thing is politics like usual.
Trump is clever and only using it for fortification.
Talk now of compensating slaves is growing as well.
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Re: Does everyone agree that Trump is nuts?

Postby Gloominary » Fri Jul 19, 2019 4:05 pm

The overclass use illegals, refugees and offshoring to exploit us, but these are not the only tactics they use, which's why I side with the socialists on some things, but not on all, for they use crony socialism to exploit us too.
My thinking is bipartisan.
We need to support the right sort of radical populists on both the right, and left.
If a leftwing populist promises to reduce immigration and offshoring, or at least not increase them after a rightwing populist has reduced them, if they promise not to go after our freedoms, if they promise to reduce taxes and unnecessary regulations on the working and middle classes while increasing taxes and necessary regulations on the upper classes, I'll vote for that leftwing populist.
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Re: Does everyone agree that Trump is nuts?

Postby Gloominary » Fri Jul 19, 2019 4:17 pm

Meno_ wrote:if you really want to get right down to it, territorial claims could invalidate the whole argument. Who or what belongs to whom is really a shady grey area, Mexico owed a large part of the South h west US and the war was founded on a matter of the same kind of rationale that Hitler used for territorial expansion.

What and how long can territorial claims be justified and on what ground?

Reparations, a hot subject in California, has been ok'd by legislature
concerning Indian rights for casino acquisitions. Some tribal members are getting filthy rich on it. These are parallel issued to territoriality, and God only knows where the boundaries are.
The whole thing is politics like usual.
Trump is clever and only using it for fortification.
Talk now of compensating slaves is growing as well.

Why stop there?
This land isn't our land, it belongs to the natives.
I say only native Americans should be allowed to run for office, and if they wish for us to return all our wealth to them, or to nature, so be it, it's their right.
Tear up the constitution and have the natives write us a new one.
Whatever they come up with, I'm sure it'll be infinitely more civilized and just than anything we, the descendants of bloodthirsty tyrants, could ever hope to conjure.
Hell, why not commit suicide?
My life was only made possible by the genocide and enslavement of millions of people, so I have no right to it.
But why stop there?
Europe owes the world a debt too.
They should kill their sons and bequeath their daughters to the Muslims.
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Re: Does everyone agree that Trump is nuts?

Postby Gloominary » Fri Jul 19, 2019 4:36 pm

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Re: Does everyone agree that Trump is nuts?

Postby WendyDarling » Sat Jul 20, 2019 1:05 am

Carleas wrote:
WendyDarling wrote:I clicked on your link and it didn't convey any statistics to back up your question. It was a fluff piece spun by left wing media, to bad it revolves around a tragedy perpetrated by an illegal who admitted to knowing where the dead girl's body was hidden. I don't see how by any stretch of the imagination it proves that illegals are law abiding.

Here's a survey of literature on the criminality of immigrants. Short version: "...[I]mmigrants are less likely to commit serious crimes or be behind bars than the native-born, and high rates of immigration are associated with lower rates of violent crime and property crime. This holds true for both legal immigrants and the unauthorized, regardless of their country of origin or level of education."

Perceptive skeptic that I know you are, I expect you will be able to find reasons to reject this study's conclusions. But I'm providing it to make the tautology you provide (which I address below) insufficient to prove your point: present evidence that is not subject to whatever issues you take with the linked survey that supports a claim that illegal immigrants commit more crimes than native born citizens (but read below first on what's really being claimed).

WendyDarling wrote:illegal immigrants are breaking the law by sneaking into the country, they are all criminals where US citizens are not all criminals.

First, my understanding is that illegal entry into the US is a civil infraction, not a criminal infraction.
In this case, you would act as though you have no idea what the law is even though you are an attorney and can easily check. It's a criminal infraction and a civil infraction that the democrats want to make into a civil infraction only. We don't employ ICE to hand out civil infraction notifications.


But a more important point is that the terms we're using here are sloppy. Let's say we made Christianity illegal, and we justified it by saying that Christians are much more likely to be criminals, which we proved by pointing to our new law which made all Christians criminals. QED? It doesn't seem so. What we want to know is whether illegal immigrants commit other kinds of crime at higher rates than natural born citizens. The study linked above says no.


Jesus, Carleas, seriously? I could swear I read a quote by I can't remember who that went..."There's lies, lies, and statistics." If the US has no count of the number of illegal immigrants, there can't be any accurate overall US study either one way or the other. But I will comment on some things that the study is doing beyond the obvious of not having any accurate numbers. First, your study is discussing immigrants rather than qualifying whether they were legal or illegal immigrants. Secondly, they're comparing unequal amounts of populations and the funny thing is that the study has no way to quantify how many illegal immigrants are even in the country at large for it was never a question on the census which not everyone fills out anyway. Plus, I'll wager that legal immigrants (made up of peoples from around the world more so than illegal immigrants who are 90% Mexican/Latin American) commit less crimes than illegal immigrants. Of course, when you only offer as a figure 24% of the immigrant/illegal immigrant population compared against 76% of the natural born population there is going to be a larger percent of criminality against the larger percent of the population, in other words the figures used do not align. They should have taken the 24% figure of immigrants/illegals against the same 24% number of the native born population.
Since there are few sources of government records that actually record an inmates origin of birth let alone list the correct ethnicity or race of criminals(the FBI even lists latinos as white), finding any accurate research is challenging, but I've listed a few examples of states with higher immigrant/illegal immigrant populations and studies on those states that have differentiated between illegal immigrant and native born.

https://www.mtdemocrat.com/news/illegal-immigrant-crime-by-the-numbers/ California has the largest state population in the US at 39.56 million. California also has the largest immigrant population in the US (legal and illegal immigrants) over 36% of the population. But who really knows since democrats in government, especially California democrats, want to keep the actual numbers a secret.


https://immigration.procon.org/view.answers.php?questionID=000782

John Lott, Jr., PhD, Dean's Visiting Professor at the State University of New York (SUNY) at Binghamton, in a Feb. 18, 2018 article, "Undocumented Immigrants, U.S. Citizens, and Convicted Criminals in Arizona," available at papers.ssrn.com, stated:

"Undocumented immigrants are at least 142% more likely to be convicted of a crime than other Arizonans. They also tend to commit more serious crimes and serve 10.5% longer sentences, more likely to be classified as dangerous, and 45% more likely to be gang members than U.S. citizens…

Young convicts are especially likely to be undocumented immigrants. While undocumented immigrants from 15 to 35 years of age make up slightly over two percent of the Arizona population, they make up about eight percent of the prison population. Even after adjusting for the fact that young people commit crime at higher rates, young undocumented immigrants commit crime at twice the rate of young U.S. citizens. These undocumented immigrants also tend to commit more serious crimes."

Feb. 18, 2018 - John Lott, Jr., PhD



Steven Camarota, PhD, Director of Research at the Center for Immigration Studies (CIS), in a Jan. 10, 2018 article, "Non-Citizens Committed a Disproportionate Share of Federal Crimes, 2011-16," available at cis.org, stated:

"21% of those convicted of non-immigration crimes were non-citizens — 2.5 times their share of the population…

Areas where non-citizens account for a much larger share of convictions than their 8.4 percent share of the adult population include:

42.4 percent of kidnapping convictions;
31.5 percent of drug convictions;
22.9 percent of money laundering convictions;
13.4 percent of administration of justice offenses (e.g. witness tampering, obstruction, and contempt);
17.8 percent of economic crimes (e.g. larceny, embezzlement, and fraud);
13 percent of other convictions (e.g. bribery, civil rights, environmental, and prison offenses); and
12.8 percent of auto thefts."

Jan. 10, 2018 - Steven A. Camarota, PhD

The following info was pulled from the above study.
One Additional Caveat. Because it is easier to make an immigration case, federal prosecutors sometimes charge illegal immigrants only with immigration violations, even when they have committed serious non-immigration crimes. Once convicted, an immigrant will still normally serve some time and then be deported, which is often seen by prosecutors as good enough. This, of course, does not happen with citizens. But because of this, conviction data for non-immigration crimes will tend to understate the level of criminal activity among non-citizens.


Don't let the mainstream media and illegal alien advocates tell you that illegal immigration is a 'victimless crime' and that they are here only to do the work Americans don't want to do. Since each crime has a victim, 1,288,619 sounds like a lot of victimization to us. Also keep in mind that the 1,288,619 crimes are only the ones committed by the hard core illegal alien criminals who were finally caught and incarcerated. The ones not caught and the new criminals crossing daily are committing more crime each and every day."


I would venture to guess that there will be many more studies but will they have the accurate information they need about race and origin of birth? No, leftists want to conceal reality, it's there modus operandi. Leftists want to keep the public at large placated with visions of sugarplum fairies dancing in their heads rather than shed any light on whats really going on in terms of the number of millions of illegal aliens and the races and birth places of illegal aliens who commit crimes more serious than driving violations and entering the country illegally.
I AM OFFICIALLY IN HELL!

I live my philosophy, it's personal to me and people who engage where I live establish an unspoken dynamic, a relationship of sorts, with me and my philosophy.

Cutting folks for sport is a reality for the poor in spirit. I myself only cut the poor in spirit on Tues., Thurs., and every other Sat.
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Re: Does everyone agree that Trump is nuts?

Postby Peter Kropotkin » Sat Jul 20, 2019 1:26 am

From WendyDarling:

John Lott, Jr., PhD, Dean's Visiting Professor at the State University of New York (SUNY) at Binghamton, in a Feb. 18, 2018 article, "Undocumented Immigrants, U.S. Citizens, and Convicted Criminals in Arizona," available at papers.ssrn.com, stated:

"Undocumented immigrants are at least 142% more likely to be convicted of a crime than other Arizonans. They also tend to commit more serious crimes and serve 10.5% longer sentences, more likely to be classified as dangerous, and 45% more likely to be gang members than U.S. citizens…

Young convicts are especially likely to be undocumented immigrants. While undocumented immigrants from 15 to 35 years of age make up slightly over two percent of the Arizona population, they make up about eight percent of the prison population. Even after adjusting for the fact that young people commit crime at higher rates, young undocumented immigrants commit crime at twice the rate of young U.S. citizens. These undocumented immigrants also tend to commit more serious crimes.

K: did some research on Mr. Lott and he is an pro-gun fanatic whose research
was paid for by... the NRA......no bias there!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Steven Camarota, PhD, Director of Research at the Center for Immigration Studies (CIS), in a Jan. 10, 2018 article, "Non-Citizens Committed a Disproportionate Share of Federal Crimes, 2011-16," available at cis.org, stated:

"21% of those convicted of non-immigration crimes were non-citizens — 2.5 times their share of the population…

Areas where non-citizens account for a much larger share of convictions than their 8.4 percent share of the adult population include:

42.4 percent of kidnapping convictions;
31.5 percent of drug convictions;
22.9 percent of money laundering convictions;
13.4 percent of administration of justice offenses (e.g. witness tampering, obstruction, and contempt);
17.8 percent of economic crimes (e.g. larceny, embezzlement, and fraud);
13 percent of other convictions (e.g. bribery, civil rights, environmental, and prison offenses); and
12.8 percent of auto thefts."

Steven Camarota: One Additional Caveat. Because it is easier to make an immigration case, federal prosecutors sometimes charge illegal immigrants only with immigration violations, even when they have committed serious non-immigration crimes. Once convicted, an immigrant will still normally serve some time and then be deported, which is often seen by prosecutors as good enough. This, of course, does not happen with citizens. But because of this, conviction data for non-immigration crimes will tend to understate the level of criminal activity among non-citizens.

Don't let the mainstream media and illegal alien advocates tell you that illegal immigration is a 'victimless crime' and that they are here only to do the work Americans don't want to do. Since each crime has a victim, 1,288,619 sounds like a lot of victimization to us. Also keep in mind that the 1,288,619 crimes are only the ones committed by the hard core illegal alien criminals who were finally caught and incarcerated. The ones not caught and the new criminals crossing daily are committing more crime each and every day.

WD: I would venture to guess that there will be many more studies but will they have the accurate information they need about race and origin of birth? No, leftists want to conceal reality, it's there modus operandi. Leftists want to keep the public at large placated with visions of sugarplum fairies dancing in their heads rather than shed any light on whats really going on in terms of the number of millions of illegal aliens and the races and birth places of illegal aliens who commit crimes more serious than driving violations and entering the country illegally.

K: and as for Mr Camarota: he is a head of a radical right wing anti-immigration think tank.....
so who exactly is trying to hide the facts? and who is trying to conceal reality?

Kropotkin
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wind up with neither."
"Ben Franklin"
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Re: Does everyone agree that Trump is nuts?

Postby derleydoo » Sat Jul 20, 2019 3:32 am

Moved.
Last edited by derleydoo on Sat Jul 20, 2019 4:14 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Does everyone agree that Trump is nuts?

Postby WendyDarling » Sat Jul 20, 2019 4:06 am

Peter Kropotkin wrote:From WendyDarling:

John Lott, Jr., PhD, Dean's Visiting Professor at the State University of New York (SUNY) at Binghamton, in a Feb. 18, 2018 article, "Undocumented Immigrants, U.S. Citizens, and Convicted Criminals in Arizona," available at papers.ssrn.com, stated:

"Undocumented immigrants are at least 142% more likely to be convicted of a crime than other Arizonans. They also tend to commit more serious crimes and serve 10.5% longer sentences, more likely to be classified as dangerous, and 45% more likely to be gang members than U.S. citizens…

Young convicts are especially likely to be undocumented immigrants. While undocumented immigrants from 15 to 35 years of age make up slightly over two percent of the Arizona population, they make up about eight percent of the prison population. Even after adjusting for the fact that young people commit crime at higher rates, young undocumented immigrants commit crime at twice the rate of young U.S. citizens. These undocumented immigrants also tend to commit more serious crimes.

K: did some research on Mr. Lott and he is an pro-gun fanatic whose research
was paid for by... the NRA......no bias there!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Steven Camarota, PhD, Director of Research at the Center for Immigration Studies (CIS), in a Jan. 10, 2018 article, "Non-Citizens Committed a Disproportionate Share of Federal Crimes, 2011-16," available at cis.org, stated:

"21% of those convicted of non-immigration crimes were non-citizens — 2.5 times their share of the population…

Areas where non-citizens account for a much larger share of convictions than their 8.4 percent share of the adult population include:

42.4 percent of kidnapping convictions;
31.5 percent of drug convictions;
22.9 percent of money laundering convictions;
13.4 percent of administration of justice offenses (e.g. witness tampering, obstruction, and contempt);
17.8 percent of economic crimes (e.g. larceny, embezzlement, and fraud);
13 percent of other convictions (e.g. bribery, civil rights, environmental, and prison offenses); and
12.8 percent of auto thefts."

Steven Camarota: One Additional Caveat. Because it is easier to make an immigration case, federal prosecutors sometimes charge illegal immigrants only with immigration violations, even when they have committed serious non-immigration crimes. Once convicted, an immigrant will still normally serve some time and then be deported, which is often seen by prosecutors as good enough. This, of course, does not happen with citizens. But because of this, conviction data for non-immigration crimes will tend to understate the level of criminal activity among non-citizens.

Don't let the mainstream media and illegal alien advocates tell you that illegal immigration is a 'victimless crime' and that they are here only to do the work Americans don't want to do. Since each crime has a victim, 1,288,619 sounds like a lot of victimization to us. Also keep in mind that the 1,288,619 crimes are only the ones committed by the hard core illegal alien criminals who were finally caught and incarcerated. The ones not caught and the new criminals crossing daily are committing more crime each and every day.

WD: I would venture to guess that there will be many more studies but will they have the accurate information they need about race and origin of birth? No, leftists want to conceal reality, it's there modus operandi. Leftists want to keep the public at large placated with visions of sugarplum fairies dancing in their heads rather than shed any light on whats really going on in terms of the number of millions of illegal aliens and the races and birth places of illegal aliens who commit crimes more serious than driving violations and entering the country illegally.

K: and as for Mr Camarota: he is a head of a radical right wing anti-immigration think tank.....
so who exactly is trying to hide the facts? and who is trying to conceal reality?

Kropotkin

Show your proof, Peter, that they are the liars you say they are, how their research is biased, show your evidence of wrong doing. Did they change numbers or make false statements? Show your "yes" then back that up with what's accurate.

Leftists make accusations without evidence so this is your opportunity to present your evidence since evidence is what you forgot.

Most of the research that is done today has been educated by leftist ideology which has hallowed out liberalism, it's all tainted whether it's hard science or soft science, all in the name of supporting illusionary ideals of feeling good rather than observable reality that is accompanied by the irrefutable suffering which is life.
I AM OFFICIALLY IN HELL!

I live my philosophy, it's personal to me and people who engage where I live establish an unspoken dynamic, a relationship of sorts, with me and my philosophy.

Cutting folks for sport is a reality for the poor in spirit. I myself only cut the poor in spirit on Tues., Thurs., and every other Sat.
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WendyDarling
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