iambiguous wrote:That you can live with it isn't what interest me here.
Yes, I believe you. Though oddly I will continue to focus on things that interest me. You can always ignore me if this is too unpleasant.
What intriques me about folks of your ilk is how folks of my ilk are unable to react to a No God world that is presumed to be bereft of objective morality without being down in the hole that "I" am in, "fractured and fragmented".
I know. It bothers you. I am not sure if you have ever considered some of the various explanations I have had for this. Could be as simple as genetic differences. Different animals will exhibit different reactions to traumatic experiences. People are different. For all sorts of reasons, some related to dasein. Some related to built in temperment.
Once I was able to react to Trump [piss or no piss tape] as I imagine folks like Peter Kropotkin and Rachel Maddow still do: more or less objectively.
For them, Trump genuinely embodies all that make the world we live in such a terrible place. And once the right Democrat/liberal with the right moral and political values takes his place, the world will become a significantly better place to live.
Necessarily as it were.
I don't think like that anymore. I'm not able to. Instead, I have come to presume that my own value judgments are basically just an existential fabrication rooted in the manner in which "I" construe the meaning of dasein.
So, I become a liberal pragmatist
Oh, look, a pragmatist, perhaps not just like me, but to this extent.
because it is the only actual option open to me. But then I think this: that the conservative pragmatists are in the same boat. Neither of us are able to go beyond the assumption that, liberal or conservative, "I" here is just an existential contraption rooted in the lives that we lived.
There does not appear to be a way in which to know [philosophically or otherwise] how one ought to live.
Perhaps being a liberal pragmatist is as close as you will get. I wish I could fly. I wish I'd won the lotto. I don't spend much time bemoaning those things, though their were periods when I was younger I might have bemoaned the latter.
And that's before both the liberal and the conservative pragmatists are forced to confront the moral nihilists who own and operate the global economy. They are far, far, far less concerned with "the right thing to do" and focus far, far, far more on that which sustains their own perceived self-interests.
The Trumps and the Putins of this world.
I would say I am doing the same thing, pursuing my own perceived interests. My sense is I have more empathy than those two people, however. And while I certainly prefer people who also have empathy, I do get worried by people who think they make their choices out of nobility and goodness. Some of them cause me and what I love no problems - though I am not sure about their families and themselves - but many others I see as rather a threat.
and then I forgot to react to this....
But then that's what I keep harping about in regard to your own incessant attempts to come after me here. Your motivation is no less an existential contraption from my point of view.
in your view all choices, behavior, attitudes, are existential contraptions. So my 'coming after you', as you frame it, would of course bee an existential contraption to you. Calling it that, adds no information, it does not distinguish it from any other behavior, or any other attitude anyone has every had in the history of the world, in your system. So it's a strange thing to say.
I could see saying this to me if I said 'I am actively critical of your posts because it is my duty' or '...it's a noble action' or for the good of the world or whatever. But I don't say such things.
It would be like me saying to you 'But then that's what I keep harping about in regard to your own incessant posting in ILP. Your posting is no less a behavior from my point of view.'
Huh? That doesn't distinguish it from any other human action. Perhaps you were just trying to trigger me.
One interesting thing is you don't bother me anymore. What I have asserted were patterns of your communication behavior still exist and continue, but they no longer bother me. I still find the blind spots fascinating however. And as along as their is development in my reaction and as long as I am learning from the interaction, I will likely continue.
I think this shift has happened for a number of reasons: I see the same pattern so clearly when you interact with others - how you treat their posts, even in threads not yours, as wrong on the criterion they do not solve your hole issue, how you refuse to justify your own points, and then of course the wall of repetition of your position as if it is a response to their posts when it often is not at all. when I am in the middle of a frustrating dialogue with someone, despite how I may come across, I wonder if the problem has to do with my failure to communicate clearly. Seeing it happen again and again with others and them also making the same points about your behavior, shifted something. Then also having dealt with similar kinds of narcissism in face to face life in recent time and confronting it irl, that also gave me perspective.
So sure, frame it as 'coming after you'. I can absolutely understand how you would experience it that way. For me I experience it as probing again and again to see if you can actually acknowledge the things you are doing and/or develop yourself. And then to see what methods you use to act as if you have responded. I have no expectation that you will even consider what I write, but watching the activity invovled in your making sure you do not acknowledge anything mirrors things people do in face to face life.
And that is very useful. On some level I did not believe people would go to such lengths to hide things from themselves. I should know better, and I should know all the mechanisms, but, no, I am still learning.
