Pop Quiz

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Re: Pop Quiz

Postby Pedro I Rengel » Sun Dec 06, 2020 3:24 pm

Computers use transistors, which literally only either let electricity through or not. What do neurons do?
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Re: Pop Quiz

Postby obsrvr524 » Sun Dec 06, 2020 3:50 pm

Pedro I Rengel wrote:Computers use transistors, which literally only either let electricity through or not. What do neurons do?

You didn't watch the video?

Transistors get triggered to either create an electric pulse or not (flip on or off 1 or 0).
Neurons get triggered to either create an bio-electric pulse or not (flip on or off 1 or 0).

See the difference? :D
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Re: Pop Quiz

Postby Pedro I Rengel » Sun Dec 06, 2020 3:54 pm

You must know me well enough by now to know I would not watch a video from Harvard if a gun was pointed at me.
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Re: Pop Quiz

Postby Pedro I Rengel » Sun Dec 06, 2020 3:54 pm

Anyway the pop quiz isn't for Harvard.
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Re: Pop Quiz

Postby obsrvr524 » Sun Dec 06, 2020 3:56 pm

Pedro I Rengel wrote:You must know me well enough by now to know I would not watch a video from Harvard if a gun was pointed at me.
:lol:
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Re: Pop Quiz

Postby MagsJ » Sun Dec 06, 2020 5:10 pm

Pedro I Rengel wrote:Computers use transistors, which literally only either let electricity through or not. What do neurons do?

..communicate with each other.
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Re: Pop Quiz

Postby Pedro I Rengel » Sun Dec 06, 2020 5:12 pm

In what way that differs from transistors?
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Re: Pop Quiz

Postby Pedro I Rengel » Sun Dec 06, 2020 5:16 pm

I'm not asking a philosophical question.

This is straight science.
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Re: Pop Quiz

Postby MagsJ » Sun Dec 06, 2020 5:44 pm

Pedro I Rengel wrote:In what way that differs from transistors?

Transistors are inert and cannot work independently without human intervention, neurons are reactive and capable of working (forming thoughts and feelings) independently from others.. though some people can be co-dependent.

Transistors work via energy input, neurons work via energy expenditure.. we therefore need a constant supply of energy to keep us firing on all cylinders, as it were.
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Re: Pop Quiz

Postby obsrvr524 » Sun Dec 06, 2020 6:14 pm

Transistors and neurons are not directly comparable. The transistor is only one of the devices used in what would be a neuron simulation. There are also wires, resistors, capacitors, sensors and so on.

I don't believe that the thinking process has anything to do with whether the mechanisms on that level are biological or electronic. On that level it is just bits of data being relayed around in both scenarios.

I don't believe that on that level issues of soul, spirit, intuition, emotions, cognitive thought, and so on come into play. All of those things are on an entirely different level. At the very bottom level the only difference is a biological mechanism versus an electronic mechanism.

You can bet that ALL analytical reductionists will say that same thing. The complexity of human responses and complex AI responses is a different story. On the bottom level, before any complex response begins, it is all about individually triggered pulses (information data) being sent into a collective - into a brain or into a computer.

To get to the second question -
The significant differences between human and AI behavior come at a much higher level than the binary initial stage.
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Re: Pop Quiz

Postby Pedro I Rengel » Sun Dec 06, 2020 6:20 pm

This is all very conceptual. I am just asking a question about the mechanisms of computers and brains.

The binary mathematics used for computers does not apply to all the other components, only to the transistors.
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Re: Pop Quiz

Postby obsrvr524 » Sun Dec 06, 2020 6:33 pm

Pedro I Rengel wrote:This is all very conceptual. I am just asking a question about the mechanisms of computers and brains.

The binary mathematics used for computers does not apply to all the other components, only to the transistors.

Computers don't ONLY use binary maths. So now I am wondering what you are asking in question 2.
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Re: Pop Quiz

Postby Pedro I Rengel » Sun Dec 06, 2020 6:35 pm

Yes they do.

What other kind of math do you think they use?
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Re: Pop Quiz

Postby Pedro I Rengel » Sun Dec 06, 2020 6:35 pm

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Re: Pop Quiz

Postby obsrvr524 » Sun Dec 06, 2020 6:46 pm

Pedro I Rengel wrote:Yes they do.

What other kind of math do you think they use?

I'm no expert but I know they use every kind of maths that anyone else uses. The only binary to it is at the very bottom level "assembly code". Everything above that is the same kind of maths that everyone uses. And probably some that humans can't handle.
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Re: Pop Quiz

Postby Pedro I Rengel » Sun Dec 06, 2020 7:03 pm

What you call "above that" all has to eventually be translated into binary math, for computers to work.

Which is what makes people like Dennis Ritchie so impressive.

But the reason for that is the mechanism of computers. Everything is done by manipulating whether transistors allow electricity through or not, each mode acting as a "1" or a "0" when computer designers and software developers work the binary math code.
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Re: Pop Quiz

Postby Pedro I Rengel » Sun Dec 06, 2020 7:10 pm

A byte, for example, is 8 digits of binary, 8 "1"s or "0"s, each representing one transistor in "allow electricity through" or "do not allow electricity through" mode.
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Re: Pop Quiz

Postby obsrvr524 » Sun Dec 06, 2020 7:27 pm

Of course it all reduces down to the fundamental level.

How is that any different for the human brain?

Everything reduces down to some minuscule component.
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Re: Pop Quiz

Postby promethean75 » Sun Dec 06, 2020 7:28 pm

Get with phoneutria on this one. She's a computer geek.
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Re: Pop Quiz

Postby MagsJ » Sun Dec 06, 2020 7:34 pm

_
Could it possibly be.. no it couldn’t.. say it isn’t so.. could it be, could it be to do with memes and genes? :lol:
A mother board is purely all meme, our brain is meme and gene/the learned and the innate.
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I haven't got the time to spend the time reading something that is telling me nothing, as I will never be able to get back that time, and I may need it for something at some point in time.. Huh! - MagsJ
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Re: Pop Quiz

Postby obsrvr524 » Sun Dec 06, 2020 7:40 pm

It must be all about conflicting goods, spirits, and freewill.

Maybe this belongs on the Religion and Spiritual forum?

I stay away from that sort of stuff, especially after James' extensive analysis of it all. I accept the "bubble of belief" paradigm (or ontology or whatever you philosophers call it). What people need is not always the truth of what is. Wisdom is not always truth.
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Re: Pop Quiz

Postby Pedro I Rengel » Sun Dec 06, 2020 7:46 pm

Let's not get lost in gobbledygook. Straight facts will do.

Computers are designed and coded for for and with binary because of how transistors work. They are set in "allow electricity through" or "do not allow electricity through" mode which allows computer designers and software engineers to represent them and manipulate them through the "1's and "0"s of binary mathematics.

In what way does that separate computers from brains?

Please don't invoke the dasabracadabra master. We don't need gobbledygook. Let's stick to facts.
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Re: Pop Quiz

Postby Pedro I Rengel » Sun Dec 06, 2020 7:47 pm

promethean75 wrote:Get with phoneutria on this one. She's a computer geek.


I am hoping she'll jump in because she is an expert of both fields.
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Re: Pop Quiz

Postby obsrvr524 » Sun Dec 06, 2020 7:58 pm

Pedro I Rengel wrote:
promethean75 wrote:Get with phoneutria on this one. She's a computer geek.


I am hoping she'll jump in because she is an expert of both fields.

She's an expert on the human brain? :shock:
I've got to see this.
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Re: Pop Quiz

Postby MagsJ » Sun Dec 06, 2020 7:59 pm

_
..a great thread Pedro ..very thought-formulating indeed..
though I really thought it was going to be about a quiz, on Pop. :-s
The possibility of anything we can imagine existing is endless and infinite.. - MagsJ
I haven't got the time to spend the time reading something that is telling me nothing, as I will never be able to get back that time, and I may need it for something at some point in time.. Huh! - MagsJ
You’re suggestions and I, just simply don’t mix.. like oil on water, or a really bad DJ - MagsJ
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