Pop Quiz

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Pop Quiz

Postby Pedro I Rengel » Sat Dec 05, 2020 5:59 pm

1. Why must computer designers and software engineers use binary math?

2. In what way does the answer to question 1 separate computers from brains?
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Re: Pop Quiz

Postby Ecmandu » Sat Dec 05, 2020 6:04 pm

Pedro I Rengel wrote:1. Why must computer designers and software engineers use binary math?

2. In what way does the answer to question 1 separate computers from brains?


They don’t use binary math.

Even in unary math you still have the space key and the enter key. That’s at a minimum: trinary math
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Re: Pop Quiz

Postby Berkley Babes » Sat Dec 05, 2020 6:08 pm

1. Because light switches go on and off.

2. Because my brain is dim compared to eternal brightness.

Both bad guesses.
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Re: Pop Quiz

Postby Ecmandu » Sat Dec 05, 2020 6:10 pm

Berkley Babes wrote:1. Because light switches go on and off.

2. Because my brain is dim compared to eternal brightness.

Both bad guesses.


Actually, some light switches have dimmers.
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Re: Pop Quiz

Postby Berkley Babes » Sat Dec 05, 2020 6:14 pm

Ecmandu wrote:
Berkley Babes wrote:1. Because light switches go on and off.

2. Because my brain is dim compared to eternal brightness.

Both bad guesses.


Actually, some light switches have dimmers.


true. and some are broken.
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Re: Pop Quiz

Postby obsrvr524 » Sat Dec 05, 2020 7:22 pm

Pedro I Rengel wrote:1. Why must computer designers and software engineers use binary math?

My understanding is that the technology is easier and cheaper to handle while achieving great accuracy. Then the software is stuck having to run on that hardware.

Pedro I Rengel wrote:2. In what way does the answer to question 1 separate computers from brains?

Again, only what I have been told, the brain is actually a binary system but as a "cloud computer" not requiring binary thought - a higher level of software freed from hardware binary issues.
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Re: Pop Quiz

Postby Pedro I Rengel » Sun Dec 06, 2020 3:39 am

Ec: F

BB: F

obsrvr: B-. That's pretty good, but we are looking for something a little more specific. Good philosophy though, I liked the post. If I had to point out one specific thing I might call an error, it is that the brain is a binary system. But that can still work if you are trying to make a separate philosophical point, so that is why I'm looking for more specific responses.
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Re: Pop Quiz

Postby MagsJ » Sun Dec 06, 2020 4:24 am

Pedro I Rengel wrote:1. Why must computer designers and software engineers use binary math?

2. In what way does the answer to question 1 separate computers from brains?

1. Because that is the underlying digital language of computers.. a series of 0s and 1s.

2. The brain is not digital.
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Re: Pop Quiz

Postby Pedro I Rengel » Sun Dec 06, 2020 4:34 am

MagsJ wrote:
Pedro I Rengel wrote:1. Why must computer designers and software engineers use binary math?

1. Because that is the underlying digital language of computers.. a series of 0s and 1s.


Yes, but why?

We'll move on to question 2 once we have established this.
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Re: Pop Quiz

Postby MagsJ » Sun Dec 06, 2020 5:03 am

Pedro I Rengel wrote:
MagsJ wrote:
Pedro I Rengel wrote:1. Why must computer designers and software engineers use binary math?

1. Because that is the underlying digital language of computers.. a series of 0s and 1s.

Yes, but why?

We'll move on to question 2 once we have established this.

It is the language of electrical machines, and is generated when the motherboard’s transistors are activated/inactivated by a current.. so the technology dictating the computational method.

You are making me feel like I’m back in Computer Science & Programming class.
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I haven't got the time to spend the time reading something that is telling me nothing, as I will never be able to get back that time, and I may need it for something at some point in time.. Huh! - MagsJ
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Re: Pop Quiz

Postby Pedro I Rengel » Sun Dec 06, 2020 5:06 am

Hahahaha I don't mean to be annoying, I just would like it all to be explicated here, with no recourse to outside literature.

So the computer designers and software engineers use binary maths because of something to do with transistors?
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Re: Pop Quiz

Postby MagsJ » Sun Dec 06, 2020 5:22 am

Pedro I Rengel wrote:Hahahaha I don't mean to be annoying, I just would like it all to be explicated here, with no recourse to outside literature.

So the computer designers and software engineers use binary maths because of something to do with transistors?

Yes.. I recall bus and gates, and on and off, and 0 and 1.. a computer is just pretty much a series of transistors welded to a board. I don’t remember the full specifics of that aspect of it though, but those 0s and 1s are what appear on the screen, in the form of the image we see.

Think back to the days of Commodore 64 and Atari, when images were less pixelated and looked more like Lego.. the binary conversion is more evident from back then.
The possibility of anything we can imagine existing is endless and infinite.. - MagsJ
I haven't got the time to spend the time reading something that is telling me nothing, as I will never be able to get back that time, and I may need it for something at some point in time.. Huh! - MagsJ
You’re suggestions and I, just simply don’t mix.. like oil on water, or a really bad DJ - MagsJ
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Re: Pop Quiz

Postby obsrvr524 » Sun Dec 06, 2020 5:31 am

Pedro I Rengel wrote:So the computer designers and software engineers use binary maths because of something to do with transistors?

I think that is true. The transistors go either off or on to relay the binary signal or lock it in.

Pedro I Rengel wrote:Ec: F

BB: F

obsrvr: B-.

I don't know what that means but -
Pedro I Rengel wrote:one specific thing I might call an error, it is that the brain is a binary system. But that can still work if you are trying to make a separate philosophical point, so that is why I'm looking for more specific responses.

I was just thinking that the neurons are binary devices. They either trigger or they don't and carry the pulse or don't - "1" or "0" - "binary".

I understand that the nodes where the neurons meet is more of a statistical thing mediated by prior influences. If many neurons attack a single node a new pulse is created out from that one - sort of a voting system with a potentially biased electorate representative carrying the result to higher legislation.

So at the nodes, the binary actually becomes a weighted maths system fed by fixed binary inputs (pulse votes) and carries binary output.

And all of that leads into the "cloud" idea - not totally binary - a bit cloudy and biased/weighted by prior experience.

We are way out of my depth here, but that is how I think "cloud computers" work as well - "examine the trends, waves, norms, and irregularities" concerning information from billions of data connections. Create an awareness ("consciousness") - a weighted picture of the reality. Isn't that all people do?

We call it "thinking". They call it "computing". What's the difference?
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Re: Pop Quiz

Postby WendyDarling » Sun Dec 06, 2020 5:38 am

The difference is we have bodies taking in sensations and turning them into emotions analogously with our thinking.
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Re: Pop Quiz

Postby Pedro I Rengel » Sun Dec 06, 2020 5:46 am

OK I think we have 1 down. To paraphrase and summarize:

Computers designers and software engineers use binary math because the base technology is transistors that either allow electricity through or not, "on" or "off," and binary maths, with its 1's and 0's, can be used to codify the manipulation of these transistors to send signals to different dependent mechanisms.

2 is a little more complicated.

I believe neurons don't function by simply allowing electricity through or not, or even by being "activated" or not.
Last edited by Pedro I Rengel on Sun Dec 06, 2020 5:51 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Pop Quiz

Postby Pedro I Rengel » Sun Dec 06, 2020 5:47 am

WendyDarling wrote:The difference is we have bodies taking in sensations and turning them into emotions analogously with our thinking.


Lol I think this is like obsrvr's first post here, that is, philosophically excellent, but we are looking for specifics.
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Re: Pop Quiz

Postby MagsJ » Sun Dec 06, 2020 5:51 am

_
Brains can’t be hacked. :D

I’m going along the lines of obsrvr’s last post, lol.
Last edited by MagsJ on Sun Dec 06, 2020 5:52 am, edited 1 time in total.
The possibility of anything we can imagine existing is endless and infinite.. - MagsJ
I haven't got the time to spend the time reading something that is telling me nothing, as I will never be able to get back that time, and I may need it for something at some point in time.. Huh! - MagsJ
You’re suggestions and I, just simply don’t mix.. like oil on water, or a really bad DJ - MagsJ
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Re: Pop Quiz

Postby Pedro I Rengel » Sun Dec 06, 2020 5:52 am

Psh.

CNN has proven you conclusively wrong.
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Re: Pop Quiz

Postby obsrvr524 » Sun Dec 06, 2020 5:56 am

WendyDarling wrote:The difference is we have bodies taking in sensations and turning them into emotions analogously with our thinking.

I consider emotions just a different level of thinking. They get formed the same way. I think it is just semantics.

I liked James' analogy between how the mind works and how the US congress works - "bills are the urges ( inner "emotions") sent to the Senate (outward consciousness) where the "thinking" occurs (depending on who they managed to get into those positions). And I think the two are typically just as corrupted into insanity. Is there any real difference between iambiguous and the US Congress - dasein dasein dasein - "conflicting goods" disregarding any logic. But let's not feed the troll and change the topic. :-?

Pedro I Rengel wrote:I believe neurons don't function by simply allowing electricity through or not, or even by being "activated" or not.

And your argument? I am certainly not an expert but I have never heard anything contrary.
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Re: Pop Quiz

Postby MagsJ » Sun Dec 06, 2020 6:07 am

_
I knew that was going to be a response by someone, in that of brainwashing occurring.. and let’s not forget hypnotism.

Neurons are triggered in response to stimuli, of both the internal and external, which then sends signals to the nervous system to action whatever it was that came to mind to do or think about.

Computers use transistors, humans use capacitors.. each cell is an individual energy-storage system, that runs the whole.
The possibility of anything we can imagine existing is endless and infinite.. - MagsJ
I haven't got the time to spend the time reading something that is telling me nothing, as I will never be able to get back that time, and I may need it for something at some point in time.. Huh! - MagsJ
You’re suggestions and I, just simply don’t mix.. like oil on water, or a really bad DJ - MagsJ
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Re: Pop Quiz

Postby WendyDarling » Sun Dec 06, 2020 6:20 am

Binary math is simple, brains are not simple for much of what a brain thinks is filtered through the soul as well which is called one’s conscience and computers lack a conscience. Haha, now I want my cookie! Or I keep rambling.
Last edited by WendyDarling on Sun Dec 06, 2020 6:23 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Pop Quiz

Postby Pedro I Rengel » Sun Dec 06, 2020 6:23 am

I will post my answer but I want to give a chance first for some of the resident ultranerds that come more from the science side than the "philosophy" (I put it in quotation marks because science is technically philosophy too) side to post their answers.
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Re: Pop Quiz

Postby MagsJ » Sun Dec 06, 2020 6:42 am

_
Computers have limited memory, humans do not?

We don’t have to be plugged in, to work?

Binary offers a much faster computation speed, than our brains could ever manage?

We don’t come with a keyboard? lol

We are not a Turing Test?
The possibility of anything we can imagine existing is endless and infinite.. - MagsJ
I haven't got the time to spend the time reading something that is telling me nothing, as I will never be able to get back that time, and I may need it for something at some point in time.. Huh! - MagsJ
You’re suggestions and I, just simply don’t mix.. like oil on water, or a really bad DJ - MagsJ
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Re: Pop Quiz

Postby obsrvr524 » Sun Dec 06, 2020 6:56 am

While we wait for the science geeks and because it seems people here hate to do research, here is a short video I dug up on the whole "how the neuron works" issue from Harvard University.


"It chooses to either trigger or not".

But then Harvard also said that "Mathematics is racist" - so --- keep the salt handy.
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Re: Pop Quiz

Postby MagsJ » Sun Dec 06, 2020 7:28 am

Pedro I Rengel wrote:I will post my answer but I want to give a chance first for some of the resident ultranerds that come more from the science side than the "philosophy" (I put it in quotation marks because science is technically philosophy too) side to post their answers.


:sad-bored:

:sleeping-blue:

:sleeping-sleeping:

:teasing-poke:
The possibility of anything we can imagine existing is endless and infinite.. - MagsJ
I haven't got the time to spend the time reading something that is telling me nothing, as I will never be able to get back that time, and I may need it for something at some point in time.. Huh! - MagsJ
You’re suggestions and I, just simply don’t mix.. like oil on water, or a really bad DJ - MagsJ
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