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Re: Is the Darwinistic Selection Principle False?

PostPosted: Mon Jul 20, 2020 3:07 am
by Fixed Cross
Arminius wrote:Thesis:

The Darwinistic selection principle is false, unless human beings were not included.

Darwin's selection principle means that successful living beings have more offspring than the unsuccessful living beings and live on, whereas unsuccessful living beings have less offspring than the successful living beings and die out. But in the case of the human beings this selection principle can be reversed: successful human beings have less offspring than the unsuccessful human beings and die out, whereas unsuccessful living beings have more offspring than the successful living beings and live on. The human culture/s allow/s to circumvent the Darwinistic selection principle.

Successful is meant as as in, successful in having offspring.

Re: Is the Darwinistic Selection Principle False?

PostPosted: Mon Jul 20, 2020 12:14 pm
by phoneutria
Hahah, this thread

I miss lev and arminius.

Re: Is the Darwinistic Selection Principle False?

PostPosted: Tue Jul 21, 2020 5:31 pm
by Meno_
phoneutria wrote:Hahah, this thread

I miss lev and arminius.



Me too, has this forum been concluded or, do You think there are unexplored areas yet to deal with?

Re: Is the Darwinistic Selection Principle False?

PostPosted: Tue Jul 21, 2020 11:02 pm
by Fixed Cross
Lev was keen, but was for some reason trolling me quite vehemently along with all the others that then left.

Someone should compile a book from good posts on this forum.

Re: Is the Darwinistic Selection Principle False?

PostPosted: Tue Jul 21, 2020 11:05 pm
by Fixed Cross
Actually there is no "selection principle" in Darwin. Maybe fair to note.
The principle at work here is that of sexual selection, nothing else.

What Darwin disclosed is the results of sexual selection, namely evolution in terms of appearances.

Re: Is the Darwinistic Selection Principle False?

PostPosted: Tue Jul 21, 2020 11:22 pm
by Ecmandu
Fixed Cross wrote:Actually there is no "selection principle" in Darwin. Maybe fair to note.
The principle at work here is that of sexual selection, nothing else.

What Darwin disclosed is the results of sexual selection, namely evolution in terms of appearances.


Actually, this is false. Standard Darwinism asserts that no matter how we fuck, the environment always determines the winners. It’s not a theory that says how we fuck determines the environment.

A very simple example of Galapagos finches demonstrates that finches did not change the trees. The trees are still the same.

Re: Is the Darwinistic Selection Principle False?

PostPosted: Wed Jul 22, 2020 12:09 am
by Meno_
Ecmandu wrote:
Fixed Cross wrote:Actually there is no "selection principle" in Darwin. Maybe fair to note.
The principle at work here is that of sexual selection, nothing else.

What Darwin disclosed is the results of sexual selection, namely evolution in terms of appearances.


Actually, this is false. Standard Darwinism asserts that no matter how we fuck, the environment always determines the winners. It’s not a theory that says how we fuck determines the environment.

A very simple example of Galapagos finches demonstrates that finches did not change the trees. The trees are still the same.




But I can point to an important event where Darwin may have changed lab results to suit his theory.

Ill have to recall that, but sadly, it caused the suicide of a famous Viennese botanist

There is a very impressive claim that we fuck to change genetic immediate alternation. The periphery optics of that hinges on what sexual attraction really is, the willful power of changing characteristics through dominance and the use of the compensatory power of sexual perception to overcome inferior semblances of underlying power motives.

Re: Is the Darwinistic Selection Principle False?

PostPosted: Wed Jul 22, 2020 2:49 am
by Fixed Cross
Well genetics proves Darwin's main suggestion to be true. His moment of triumph is valid, the Beagle is the greatest ship of discovery in everlasting eternity. I think. All that happens on Enterprise is contingent upon it.

"The periphery optics of that hinges on what sexual attraction really is, the willful power of changing characteristics through dominance and the use of the compensatory power of sexual perception to overcome inferior semblances of underlying power motives."

Yes, violent interpretation. Beauty in the eye of Sauron.

Re: Is the Darwinistic Selection Principle False?

PostPosted: Wed Jul 22, 2020 2:55 am
by Fixed Cross
Of course, the second suggestion, of a continuous progression from amoeba to man, is problematic. Elegant though.
Do you think man came from ape?
And if so from what did ape come to your knowledge?

Re: Is the Darwinistic Selection Principle False?

PostPosted: Wed Jul 22, 2020 3:02 am
by Ecmandu
In terms of which species humans most act like (and this is well known) it’s actually *drumroll* ants !!!!!

Apes act less like ants than humans do, even though apes are genetically our closest relatives!

Re: Is the Darwinistic Selection Principle False?

PostPosted: Wed Jul 22, 2020 2:26 pm
by phoneutria
we don't act at all like ants

Re: Is the Darwinistic Selection Principle False?

PostPosted: Wed Jul 22, 2020 5:25 pm
by Ecmandu
phoneutria wrote:we don't act at all like ants


https://medium.com/handwaving-freakoute ... b3074ec92f

Re: Is the Darwinistic Selection Principle False?

PostPosted: Wed Jul 22, 2020 6:52 pm
by phoneutria
well if bj campbell says so

Re: Is the Darwinistic Selection Principle False?

PostPosted: Wed Jul 22, 2020 6:54 pm
by surreptitious75
We are too individualistic to be like ants who work together as a single collective to achieve a common goal
And other species like bees or wasps but we value our independence too much to be like these social insects

Re: Is the Darwinistic Selection Principle False?

PostPosted: Wed Jul 22, 2020 6:56 pm
by Fixed Cross
No one here actually read Origin of Species, eh?

I was waiting for someone to nuance my statements.

WHO HAS READ DARWIN?

Re: Is the Darwinistic Selection Principle False?

PostPosted: Wed Jul 22, 2020 7:00 pm
by Fixed Cross
Anyone read Dawkins' The Selfish Gene? High quality work.
He argues that it is not the organism but the genes themselves which must be seen as the agent. So you have to look at individual survival and procreation and group survival at once, which changes the logics, and gives another way of looking at "fitness".

So, the group is its own primary environment.

Re: Is the Darwinistic Selection Principle False?

PostPosted: Wed Jul 22, 2020 7:01 pm
by phoneutria
all ants in a colony are sterile female clones
the whole colony is one individual

Re: Is the Darwinistic Selection Principle False?

PostPosted: Wed Jul 22, 2020 7:02 pm
by Fixed Cross
I remember at your compound, taking a walk around it, studying this enormous ant trail, with very strong ants carrying whole flower petals by themselves. It was like 50 yards long at least. Beautiful.

Re: Is the Darwinistic Selection Principle False?

PostPosted: Wed Jul 22, 2020 7:06 pm
by phoneutria
i've read those two
among another thing or two
i published a microbiology paper once, too
if that helps

Re: Is the Darwinistic Selection Principle False?

PostPosted: Wed Jul 22, 2020 7:12 pm
by Fixed Cross
I doubt it will help. But good job.

Re: Is the Darwinistic Selection Principle False?

PostPosted: Wed Jul 22, 2020 7:16 pm
by surreptitious75
I have read them both but I prefer the Dawkins because it is the more contemporary of the two
It is one of the truly seminal scientific books anyone remotely interested in science should read

Re: Is the Darwinistic Selection Principle False?

PostPosted: Wed Jul 22, 2020 7:29 pm
by phoneutria
Fixed Cross wrote:I remember at your compound, taking a walk around it, studying this enormous ant trail, with very strong ants carrying whole flower petals by themselves. It was like 50 yards long at least. Beautiful.


saúva ants
atta subfam
they are beautiful, indeed
they'll also wipe your crop clean in 24h

Re: Is the Darwinistic Selection Principle False?

PostPosted: Wed Jul 22, 2020 7:34 pm
by Ecmandu
phoneutria wrote:all ants in a colony are sterile female clones
the whole colony is one individual


Read and learn:

https://animals.mom.me/ants-female-vs-male-7766.html

Ants unlike apes have division of labor, just like humans.

Re: Is the Darwinistic Selection Principle False?

PostPosted: Wed Jul 22, 2020 7:37 pm
by phoneutria
Fixed Cross wrote:I doubt it will help. But good job.


well I mean, to get to the point where you are able to put something you wrote in a credible scientific publication, surely you've studied a good deal of the foundational work on the subject

whatever
i hate it when creds start getting thrown around

y'all can just go ahead and assume that i'm an idiot and you're better than me
to me it makes no difference

Re: Is the Darwinistic Selection Principle False?

PostPosted: Wed Jul 22, 2020 7:38 pm
by phoneutria
Ecmandu wrote:
phoneutria wrote:all ants in a colony are sterile female clones
the whole colony is one individual


Read and learn:

https://animals.mom.me/ants-female-vs-male-7766.html

Ants unlike apes have division of labor, just like humans.


why dontcha keep googling until you get it right