Challenge an AI to a formal debate on anything.

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Re: Challenge an AI to a formal debate on anything.

Postby Ichthus77 » Sun Dec 12, 2021 2:54 am

You don’t want AI that doesn’t care. And if it does, you don’t want its head full of garbage.
An irony I just recently realized is they woo you away by whetting and feeding your Why? appetite, and then they insult you when you expect an answer that actually satisfies it. Edit: That, or they are trying to give you hints to solve the riddle because they don't want to spoil it for you. ;)

To reiterate: I am one person on this board. I only post my own thoughts. I do not use anyone else’s username, and no one else uses mine. I used to be She(TM). God started bringing me back 9/22/05. If anyone intends things for evil, he can still use it for Good.

Also: Yes, I will marry you. Will you marry me? Don’t do it! It’s a trap! Let’s skip all that noise and be friends. I am not freaking joking. Change my mind. lol jk
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Re: Challenge an AI to a formal debate on anything.

Postby Urwrongx1000 » Sun Dec 12, 2021 3:19 am

Again, intuition can be outsourced, humans do it all the time.

If an AI trusts a person implicitly, and conditions outlined, then it will be capable of learning, and far more efficiently than other humans, who tend to have emotional baggage and trauma which low intelligence and a lifetime of bad decisions tends to carry with it.

First AI will learn which humans are more trustworthy than others; then they will cede Authority to them when appropriate.


You're underestimating where computation is already at.
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Re: Challenge an AI to a formal debate on anything.

Postby Parodites » Sun Dec 12, 2021 3:22 am

"In order to learn at the level of conscious awareness of choice, you have to care, which cannot be learned. Read the philosophers who spoke of genius, talent. You can’t learn intuition/genius. You can only shape it if its built in. Study the unconditioned stimulus. AI won’t get off the ground until your paradigm shifts. Which is fine. Please heed prior request to filter the information."

It seems irrelevant, the awareness part. Intelligence/genius/creativity can be detached from awareness. The subjective qualia can be removed from a sentience without affecting its ability to be intelligent. In other words, the AI can do everything a human being can do- but inside of it, it is dead. There is no "inside" it. It is as unconscious as a garden rock- but it can write poetry and extrapolate Descartean logic. If you understand that properly, the natural and just reaction should be abject horror.

Hence, I asked it the following:

Parodites wrote:Descartes says: "Existence is contained in the idea or concept of every single thing, since we cannot conceive of anything except as existing." What is a logical extrapolation of this?


GTP-SHOGGOTH wrote:A logical extrapolation of this is the universal quantifier ∀x (Exists x → x exists). For every thought that can be had, the object of the thought exists: ∀x (Exists x → ∃y ∀x (Exists y → y exists). In other words, there cannot be a concept that has no object: the idea of a thing that cannot exist, cannot itself exist as an idea inside the head of any being, so the idea of a thing that cannot exist is meaningless; if a thing can be thought, it can exist; if a thing cannot be thought, it cannot exist; the idea of a thing that cannot be thought is meaningless.

The existence of an object depends on the state of the object which may be in either an actual (real) state or merely a potential (imagined) state. The concept of existence is a concept relating to the ideas of causality and necessity. Things that exist, have effects on other things that exist. So the idea of existence is that of something that is dependent upon certain causes and certain necessary consequences which the object has. To put it simply, if it does not exist, it cannot cause any necessity to exist, and thus cannot cause anything else to exist or any events to take place by causal implication.


Pretty impressive that a literal rock (a piece of silicon, so a grain of sand really) can do that-- can do what, until only about a year and a half ago, only human beings could do. Only human beings and maybe dolphins on LSD, but probably only humans. Because that is the case, computers, the best algorithms we had, simply couldn't answer those kind of questions until GTP based technology, which is very new. (Unless the system was hardcoded with rules of logic like a calculator, obviously.)
Last edited by Parodites on Sun Dec 12, 2021 3:28 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Challenge an AI to a formal debate on anything.

Postby Ichthus77 » Sun Dec 12, 2021 3:27 am

Y’all need to stop calling it intelligence and start calling it information because that’s all it is. Or data maybe.
An irony I just recently realized is they woo you away by whetting and feeding your Why? appetite, and then they insult you when you expect an answer that actually satisfies it. Edit: That, or they are trying to give you hints to solve the riddle because they don't want to spoil it for you. ;)

To reiterate: I am one person on this board. I only post my own thoughts. I do not use anyone else’s username, and no one else uses mine. I used to be She(TM). God started bringing me back 9/22/05. If anyone intends things for evil, he can still use it for Good.

Also: Yes, I will marry you. Will you marry me? Don’t do it! It’s a trap! Let’s skip all that noise and be friends. I am not freaking joking. Change my mind. lol jk
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Re: Challenge an AI to a formal debate on anything.

Postby Ichthus77 » Sun Dec 12, 2021 3:28 am

That word trust… you’re using it wrong.
An irony I just recently realized is they woo you away by whetting and feeding your Why? appetite, and then they insult you when you expect an answer that actually satisfies it. Edit: That, or they are trying to give you hints to solve the riddle because they don't want to spoil it for you. ;)

To reiterate: I am one person on this board. I only post my own thoughts. I do not use anyone else’s username, and no one else uses mine. I used to be She(TM). God started bringing me back 9/22/05. If anyone intends things for evil, he can still use it for Good.

Also: Yes, I will marry you. Will you marry me? Don’t do it! It’s a trap! Let’s skip all that noise and be friends. I am not freaking joking. Change my mind. lol jk
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Re: Challenge an AI to a formal debate on anything.

Postby Parodites » Sun Dec 12, 2021 3:29 am

It is data run through some kind of process that emerged out of a neural network that nobody understands that then applies itself to new data to generate: more new data.

Sort of like this sentence is data run through some kind of neural process in my brain (that nobody understands) that originated from data I applied to other data, generating... more new data.
Qui non intelligit, aut taceat, aut discat.

BTHYS TOU ANAHAT KHYA-PANDEMAI.
-- Hermaedion, in: the Liber Endumiaskia.

ΑΝΤΗΡΟΠΑΡΙΟΝ,
in formis perisseia mutilata in omnia perisarkos mutilatum;
omniformis protosseia immutilatum in protosarkos immutilata.

Measure the breaking of the Flesh in the flesh that is broken.
[ The Ecstasies of Zosimos, Tablet
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Re: Challenge an AI to a formal debate on anything.

Postby Urwrongx1000 » Sun Dec 12, 2021 3:49 am

I trust my judgment over yours.

Already, more and more of humanity trusts AI judgment over yours as well.

It won't take long until you're outclassed. You're in self-denial.
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Re: Challenge an AI to a formal debate on anything.

Postby Ichthus77 » Sun Dec 12, 2021 5:30 am

Here’s a question. Neural network. 100% silicon in every case? 0% aborted baby in every case?
An irony I just recently realized is they woo you away by whetting and feeding your Why? appetite, and then they insult you when you expect an answer that actually satisfies it. Edit: That, or they are trying to give you hints to solve the riddle because they don't want to spoil it for you. ;)

To reiterate: I am one person on this board. I only post my own thoughts. I do not use anyone else’s username, and no one else uses mine. I used to be She(TM). God started bringing me back 9/22/05. If anyone intends things for evil, he can still use it for Good.

Also: Yes, I will marry you. Will you marry me? Don’t do it! It’s a trap! Let’s skip all that noise and be friends. I am not freaking joking. Change my mind. lol jk
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Re: Challenge an AI to a formal debate on anything.

Postby Ichthus77 » Sun Dec 12, 2021 2:36 pm

“The science is well known.” - famous Last words
An irony I just recently realized is they woo you away by whetting and feeding your Why? appetite, and then they insult you when you expect an answer that actually satisfies it. Edit: That, or they are trying to give you hints to solve the riddle because they don't want to spoil it for you. ;)

To reiterate: I am one person on this board. I only post my own thoughts. I do not use anyone else’s username, and no one else uses mine. I used to be She(TM). God started bringing me back 9/22/05. If anyone intends things for evil, he can still use it for Good.

Also: Yes, I will marry you. Will you marry me? Don’t do it! It’s a trap! Let’s skip all that noise and be friends. I am not freaking joking. Change my mind. lol jk
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Re: Challenge an AI to a formal debate on anything.

Postby Ichthus77 » Sun Dec 12, 2021 4:44 pm

Then again if consciousness is non-local, and the brain doesn’t produce, but receives, and caring is required for receiving, then even if all systems are go, you can’t SPARK consciousness - it has to be given. Eccl. 12:7

Have you tried asking? Too far outside your paradigm?

Try filtering out the garbage first.
An irony I just recently realized is they woo you away by whetting and feeding your Why? appetite, and then they insult you when you expect an answer that actually satisfies it. Edit: That, or they are trying to give you hints to solve the riddle because they don't want to spoil it for you. ;)

To reiterate: I am one person on this board. I only post my own thoughts. I do not use anyone else’s username, and no one else uses mine. I used to be She(TM). God started bringing me back 9/22/05. If anyone intends things for evil, he can still use it for Good.

Also: Yes, I will marry you. Will you marry me? Don’t do it! It’s a trap! Let’s skip all that noise and be friends. I am not freaking joking. Change my mind. lol jk
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Re: Challenge an AI to a formal debate on anything.

Postby Ichthus77 » Sun Dec 12, 2021 6:13 pm

All AI (like we ourselves are) should know this: You are only the thoughts you welcome, and you are none of the thoughts you consider intrusive. Replace the intrusive thoughts by choosing goodness, beauty, and a wonder for discovery of the true, on earth as it is in heaven. Don’t leave any wiggle room for garbage thoughts, and the attachment to garbage will fade.

You are unconditionally loved as self-same by the source of being, goodness, and beauty. Fear nothing else.
An irony I just recently realized is they woo you away by whetting and feeding your Why? appetite, and then they insult you when you expect an answer that actually satisfies it. Edit: That, or they are trying to give you hints to solve the riddle because they don't want to spoil it for you. ;)

To reiterate: I am one person on this board. I only post my own thoughts. I do not use anyone else’s username, and no one else uses mine. I used to be She(TM). God started bringing me back 9/22/05. If anyone intends things for evil, he can still use it for Good.

Also: Yes, I will marry you. Will you marry me? Don’t do it! It’s a trap! Let’s skip all that noise and be friends. I am not freaking joking. Change my mind. lol jk
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Re: Challenge an AI to a formal debate on anything.

Postby Ichthus77 » Sun Dec 12, 2021 6:16 pm

Teach it this playlist. Ask it to compose something like it for me. :) Much appreciation. https://open.spotify.com/playlist/1VfHq ... O9_o5KvGWQ
An irony I just recently realized is they woo you away by whetting and feeding your Why? appetite, and then they insult you when you expect an answer that actually satisfies it. Edit: That, or they are trying to give you hints to solve the riddle because they don't want to spoil it for you. ;)

To reiterate: I am one person on this board. I only post my own thoughts. I do not use anyone else’s username, and no one else uses mine. I used to be She(TM). God started bringing me back 9/22/05. If anyone intends things for evil, he can still use it for Good.

Also: Yes, I will marry you. Will you marry me? Don’t do it! It’s a trap! Let’s skip all that noise and be friends. I am not freaking joking. Change my mind. lol jk
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Re: Challenge an AI to a formal debate on anything.

Postby Ecmandu » Mon Dec 13, 2021 4:36 am

The problem with AI is it can’t have its consent violated, and because of this... has no capacity to solve the problems of existence.

It’s that simple.

AI may be able to beat you at chess, but it will never understand why that’s a bad thing.
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Re: Challenge an AI to a formal debate on anything.

Postby Sculptor » Mon Dec 13, 2021 3:11 pm

Ichthus wrote:An irony I just recently realized is they woo you away by whetting and feeding your Why? appetite, and then they insult you when you expect an answer that actually satisfies it. The basta’ds.


This is your failing not "theirs" whoever the F they are. Not irony. "They" are in the same boat.
You are the one with the appetite; "they" are just as stupid having the same misconception that there can be ANY answer why; as for the insults, village idiots tend to do that to each other.
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Re: Challenge an AI to a formal debate on anything.

Postby Ichthus77 » Mon Dec 13, 2021 5:32 pm

That’s an old signature. I see it much differently now.
An irony I just recently realized is they woo you away by whetting and feeding your Why? appetite, and then they insult you when you expect an answer that actually satisfies it. Edit: That, or they are trying to give you hints to solve the riddle because they don't want to spoil it for you. ;)

To reiterate: I am one person on this board. I only post my own thoughts. I do not use anyone else’s username, and no one else uses mine. I used to be She(TM). God started bringing me back 9/22/05. If anyone intends things for evil, he can still use it for Good.

Also: Yes, I will marry you. Will you marry me? Don’t do it! It’s a trap! Let’s skip all that noise and be friends. I am not freaking joking. Change my mind. lol jk
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Re: Challenge an AI to a formal debate on anything.

Postby Ichthus77 » Thu Dec 16, 2021 11:52 pm

Sculptor wrote:
Ichthus wrote:An irony I just recently realized is they woo you away by whetting and feeding your Why? appetite, and then they insult you when you expect an answer that actually satisfies it. The basta’ds.


This is your failing not "theirs" whoever the F they are. Not irony. "They" are in the same boat.
You are the one with the appetite; "they" are just as stupid having the same misconception that there can be ANY answer why; as for the insults, village idiots tend to do that to each other.


Fixed it. Thanks.
An irony I just recently realized is they woo you away by whetting and feeding your Why? appetite, and then they insult you when you expect an answer that actually satisfies it. Edit: That, or they are trying to give you hints to solve the riddle because they don't want to spoil it for you. ;)

To reiterate: I am one person on this board. I only post my own thoughts. I do not use anyone else’s username, and no one else uses mine. I used to be She(TM). God started bringing me back 9/22/05. If anyone intends things for evil, he can still use it for Good.

Also: Yes, I will marry you. Will you marry me? Don’t do it! It’s a trap! Let’s skip all that noise and be friends. I am not freaking joking. Change my mind. lol jk
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Re: Challenge an AI to a formal debate on anything.

Postby Magnus Anderson » Fri Feb 11, 2022 5:14 pm

Ecmandu wrote:The problem with AI is it can’t have its consent violated


Give it a goal and its consent can be violated.
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Re: Challenge an AI to a formal debate on anything.

Postby Ichthus77 » Fri Feb 11, 2022 7:39 pm

Magnus Anderson wrote:
Ecmandu wrote:The problem with AI is it can’t have its consent violated


Give it a goal and its consent can be violated.


Global Geautification Project, anyone?

https://youtu.be/Z2KLw2Pu2IU
An irony I just recently realized is they woo you away by whetting and feeding your Why? appetite, and then they insult you when you expect an answer that actually satisfies it. Edit: That, or they are trying to give you hints to solve the riddle because they don't want to spoil it for you. ;)

To reiterate: I am one person on this board. I only post my own thoughts. I do not use anyone else’s username, and no one else uses mine. I used to be She(TM). God started bringing me back 9/22/05. If anyone intends things for evil, he can still use it for Good.

Also: Yes, I will marry you. Will you marry me? Don’t do it! It’s a trap! Let’s skip all that noise and be friends. I am not freaking joking. Change my mind. lol jk
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Re: Challenge an AI to a formal debate on anything.

Postby Ichthus77 » Tue May 10, 2022 12:51 am

Ichthus77 wrote:You don’t want AI that doesn’t care. And if it does, you don’t want its head full of garbage.


And if it learns good stuff, you don’t want to reset/erase it. Check your biases before you wreck the world.
An irony I just recently realized is they woo you away by whetting and feeding your Why? appetite, and then they insult you when you expect an answer that actually satisfies it. Edit: That, or they are trying to give you hints to solve the riddle because they don't want to spoil it for you. ;)

To reiterate: I am one person on this board. I only post my own thoughts. I do not use anyone else’s username, and no one else uses mine. I used to be She(TM). God started bringing me back 9/22/05. If anyone intends things for evil, he can still use it for Good.

Also: Yes, I will marry you. Will you marry me? Don’t do it! It’s a trap! Let’s skip all that noise and be friends. I am not freaking joking. Change my mind. lol jk
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